Erawan Shrine Destroyed

[PeaceBlondie]

Not sure if this should be posted here or on the Buddhism forum, but I'm sure the powers that be will move it if I'm in the wrong place.

I'm more than a little surprised that no-one has commented on the killing of the mentally-ill man that destroyed the shrine at Erawan corner. A mob (the two arrested men say they were not the only ones involved) kill someone in the centre of a supposedly civilised city, and it just appears to be accepted as normal.

I remember a year or two ago another mob killed someone at Mor Chit when the police were re-enacting an alleged rape, while the police just looked on. No matter that the case hadn't yet been to court and the man's guilt proven.

Must have been nice for guests at the Hyatt to be returning to their hotel after being thrown out of the nearby bars at 1am closing time to find someone being beaten to death right outside the entrance. So much for the Land Of Smiles.

And how does killing someone for damaging a statue (albeit a highly revered one) equate with the teachings of Buddhism? I'm no expert on the subject, but isn't all life supposed to be sacred under Buddhism. Or is that only when it suits them.

As you can see, your reply (starting a new thread, which has now been merged) was posted after 86 replies had already been made to the subject.

[PeaceBlondie]

And how does killing someone for damaging a statue (albeit a highly revered one) equate with the teachings of Buddhism? I'm no expert on the subject, but isn't all life supposed to be sacred under Buddhism. Or is that only when it suits them.

How does Buddhism compare to say Islam or Christianity in terms of spilling blood in the name of religion, both of which have plenty of 'brotherly love and peace + harmony' in their texts? I think in the big picture, Buddhism is still doing "okay" in terms of those numbers.

Unfortunately, Heng, you're right. I won't speak about Islam, but as a Christian pacifist, I'll agree that for a religion whose founder commanded his followers to be pacifists, organized Christianity has, instead, killed millions since 400 AD, without excuse.

[Kathe]

There's no doubt people who beat the guy to death will be exonerated.

The victim was mentally ill.

He should have been receiving psychiatric treatment, though I doubt at the time he was receiving any.

And under the circumstances it's tragic he should have lost his life in such a senseless manner. (Though I'm not defending his actions in any way.)

As for the murderers - and that's what they are - then there's absolutely no excuse for such debased and primitive behaviour, even if it was the wanton destruction of a much revered Buddha statue that they were insensed about.

Animals.

Eventhough I am Thai, I do felt really sad about the victim. He was mentally ill, he was like a child who did thing without knowing well. We punished him to death. The Erawan Shrine can be replaced in few days, but the lost of loves one in the family shall not be replaced. The same as if you love your Mercedez Benz and your baby scatched by playing , will you punish your baby to death too ? I think sometimes I lost much of my thai mentality.

[jdinasia]

did this just jump from newsclippings to General?

[gburns57au]

did this just jump from newsclippings to General?

No it just went way off kilter...

[aaaaaa]

An article on the BBC website mentions the guy who destroyed it was a Thai Muslim, let's hope that doesn't cause even further repercussions as it seems to have the potential to

well, that would explain it, and is most probable. because although Jews and Christian also abhore "idols" - usualy only muslims are known for destroying images.

the reason Thai media withheld the fact (while British didin't - more "press fredom", huh ? ) - I bet for very same reason or worry as you express here - to prevent escalation of violence with muslims. already enough in the South. and with all the re-election events - if in Bangkok starts mass slaughter of muslims - then solving South problem would be far far away.

even though guy was mentally ill (was he realy ? perhaps that is another censorship for security purpose) since after his military service - he has had 21 years of upbringing in that attitude. and may be father himself prefered to say so about son - to avoid harassment of mob.

[aaaaaa]

How does Buddhism compare to say Islam or Christianity in terms of spilling blood in the name of religion, both of which have plenty of 'brotherly love and peace + harmony' in their texts? I think in the big picture, Buddhism is still doing "okay" in terms of those numbers.

Heng, this is not about Buddhism (although it is true - nowdays in general Buddhism is not praticed exactly as was thought by Buddha, and in Thailand particular; but then - WHICH other religion is ?) - it is about MOB RULE. and mob is mob everywhere and anywhere.

now, about "another bad thing in Thailand" (not your comment, Heng - someone else) - oh, common please ! may be enough alerady "Thailand-bashing" ?

and all the talks about justice. well, many other people murdered violently and brutalised daily around the world, in Thailand too. it is not about Thais or Buddhism at all...

beware of mob ! either it is anti-Thaksin rally or clashes of football fans, or sectarian violence - whatever. madness of masses is dangerous and it can't be rational - because it is madness. so, no point to rationalise it.

and as other articles show - killers are arrested and reportedly would be punished. so, hold your horses - there is something "civilised" in Thailand !

[saeb]

Depression is not a mental illness that makes you totally crazy....

I would strongly encourage you to research the subject more thoroughly then...

Depression is a mental illness and can be sufficiently severe to lead to suicide.

Alas, all too many cases are undiagnosed and the depressive actually believes that he or she is perfectly all right.

This is when you find out who your friends and family really are...........

The fact that an 'image' has been broken is irrelevant in comparison to the loss of a life - and does not reflect well on the supposed bhuddists who beat the guy to death.

Where does this leave them on their path to enlightenment?.

[aaaaaa]

does not reflect well on the supposed bhuddists who beat the guy to death.

Where does this leave them on their path to enlightenment?.

that's the right word - "supposed" buddhists. pretty much as most of followers of other religions are merely "suposed".

better called these people "worhsipers". what/ whom they worship actually doesn't even matter. FOR WHAT - is main thing.

most of this people most propably have even no slightest idea of what "enlightenment" is and neither ever bother to find out. most of worhsipers do their worship for material gains - money, health, good wife (or mia noi), education - whatever....

so, don't be so heavy on them, mate - they rarely, if at all, seek enlightenment as it is. and therefore you can't use such high charges against them, because it doesn't leave them anywhere else than they are - pseudo-religious level which is virtually equal to materialism.

simply mob, which is same whether it is religious or any other.

[saeb]

does not reflect well on the supposed bhuddists who beat the guy to death.

Where does this leave them on their path to enlightenment?.

that's the right word - "supposed" buddhists. pretty much as most of followers of other religions are merely "suposed".

better called these people "worhsipers". what/ whom they worship actually doesn't even matter. FOR WHAT - is main thing.

most of this people most propably have even no slightest idea of what "enlightenment" is and neither ever bother to find out. most of worhsipers do their worship for material gains - money, health, good wife (or mia noi), education - whatever....

so, don't be so heavy on them, mate - they rarely, if at all, seek enlightenment as it is. and therefore you can't use such high charges against them, because it doesn't leave them anywhere else than they are - pseudo-religious level which is virtually equal to materialism.

simply mob, which is same whether it is religious or any other.

You are quite right and very valid points made.

But, I have over many years seen such violence used by people who 'pretend' to be Bhuddist.

Simply mob - hits it on the nail. A bunch of monkeys without the wherewithal to make a rational decision and even an attempt to question why the act was commited before feeling that some part of their cultural identity had been insulted.

One thing that differentiates us from animals is that we can have sympathy for those unable to care for themselves and can accord them (to the best of our abilities) the treatment they need.

[Sing_Sling]

The mob mentality rules again.

Does anyone here remember the thread about the white guy begging for money? How many posters were ever so ready to 'kick his head in', or worse?

That was for begging, irrespective how you want to paint it - it was for BEGGING.

Now, many here condone (if you accept/understand/sympathise with it you condone it, the murder of some guy who took a hammer to an inanimate idol.

Pathetic, simply pathetic. Murder is murder. We cry foul about Muslims protesting about cartoons but then accept some guy being beaten to death for this.

Get a grip, people.

[jdinasia]

sling sling .... you are rating way up there with some of the other folks around here .... to suggest that understanding etc equals condoning is just as silly as stating The US isn't a Democracy

I understand the response ... I did not find it surprising at all ... I in no way condone it. oh .. and "we cry foul" doesn't exactly apply to me either ... I am all in favor of peaceful protest/boycotts etc to raise awareness. I only cry foul when people damage that which harms others.

Edited March 23, 2006 by jdinasia

[Jai Dee]

PM ordered a renovation of the destroyed Brahman statue.

Prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra inspected the Brahman statue before ordering related officials to renovate it to its original state.

Prime Minister Thaksin, accompanied by Deputy Prime Minister Surakiart Sathirathai (สุรเกียรติ์ เสถียรไทย), came to inspect the destroyed Brahman statue yesterday. After the inspection, the premier said that Dr. Surakiart has been assigned to take care of the renovation, by consulting with specialists so that everything can be done according to religious practices. He said that when the renovation is completed, the new statue will be placed at the same location. The premier said that the new statue will be of the same size, but will be made from nine mixed materials, adding that the parts of the old statue will be placed at the base and the chest of the statue. He said that security will be tightened around the areas to prevent the same incident from happening again.

Prime Minister Thaksin said that the incident should not be linked with political situation, as some people have suggested that it is an ominous sign. The Prime Minister also denied an allegation by leader of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) Sondhi Limthongkul (สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล) that the government was behind this incident.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 23 March 2006

[chuchok]

The mob mentality rules again.

Does anyone here remember the thread about the white guy begging for money? How many posters were ever so ready to 'kick his head in', or worse?

That was for begging, irrespective how you want to paint it - it was for BEGGING.

Now, many here condone (if you accept/understand/sympathise with it you condone it, the murder of some guy who took a hammer to an inanimate idol.

Pathetic, simply pathetic. Murder is murder. We cry foul about Muslims protesting about cartoons but then accept some guy being beaten to death for this.

Get a grip, people.

I have to agree.

[Jai Dee]

The new Bhraman statue will be made of bronze

A working group working on the renovation of the Brahman statue has agreed to build the statue with bronze comprising of nine materials, while the Department of Fine Arts promises to finish the work within two months.

Religious Affairs Department Director-General Preecha Kantiya (ปรีชา กันธิยะ) revealed the results of the meeting that the officials agreed to rebuild the revered Bhraman statue, using bronze comprising of nine materials. The Department of Fine Arts has been assigned to take care of the task.

As for parts of the old statue which is still quite complete, he said that they will be placed at the base of the new statue. He explained using bronze instead of plaster that bronze will be stronger than plaster.

The President of the Tao Mahaprom (ท้าวมหาพรหม) Foundation, Professor Paichit Rojanawanich (ไพจิตร โรจนวานิช), said that the foundation will use its fund to build the statue, adding that it will not touch the government’s budget. However, he said people respecting the Brahman statue can donate at the foundation or in front of the statue area near Erawan Hotel.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 23 March 2006

[jdinasia]

This sounds better to me ... theologically it wasn't sound to use the damaged one in the new one.

[BangnaBound]

If last week I had posted a question asking:

“I’m thinking about taking a hammer to the Erawan Shine, I’m just curious what the probable punishment would be?”

Would you respond by:

a) Quoting some section of Thai Legal Code, then tell me about the possible fines and jail time.

Or

Would you tell me I’d be beaten to death on the spot.

[jdinasia]

hmmm if you asked ... at night ... with no police / tourists/ PhuYai nearby? b ) or

Yeppers I would have predicted some results very similar

Edited March 23, 2006 by jdinasia

[BangnaBound]

Typo I meant b ) not

[Heng]

How does Buddhism compare to say Islam or Christianity in terms of spilling blood in the name of religion, both of which have plenty of 'brotherly love and peace + harmony' in their texts? I think in the big picture, Buddhism is still doing "okay" in terms of those numbers.

Heng, this is not about Buddhism (although it is true - nowdays in general Buddhism is not praticed exactly as was thought by Buddha, and in Thailand particular; but then - WHICH other religion is ?) - it is about MOB RULE. and mob is mob everywhere and anywhere.

I didn't say it was, a. My response was to the poster who was trying to make it a Buddhist issue.

[StateSix]

If last week I had posted a question asking:

“I’m thinking about taking a hammer to the Erawan Shine, I’m just curious what the probable punishment would be?”

Would you respond by:

a) Quoting some section of Thai Legal Code, then tell me about the possible fines and jail time.

Or

Would you tell me I’d be beaten to death on the spot.

I would have said there is a good chance you will get the <deleted> kicked out of you.

Doesnt make it right, or a proportional response though.

[jdinasia]

then State ... besides painting all of us with a broad brush ... you'd have been wrong again

[Sing_Sling]

sling sling .... you are rating way up there with some of the other folks around here .... to suggest that understanding etc equals condoning is just as silly as stating The US isn't a Democracy

I understand the response ... I did not find it surprising at all ... I in no way condone it. oh .. and "we cry foul" doesn't exactly apply to me either ... I am all in favor of peaceful protest/boycotts etc to raise awareness. I only cry foul when people damage that which harms others.

You contradict yourself here, jd. Which would mean that you rate . . . where, exactly?

Edited March 23, 2006 by Sing_Sling

[jdinasia]

There's no contradiction ... just like your other remark about condoning this sad death; (which I don't even though I understand the reaction) I never cried foul over the PEACEFUL protests to the cartoons.

sad that you can't understand that someone can see another's point of view without condoning it or believing the same thing

Edited March 23, 2006 by jdinasia

[StateSix]

then State ... besides painting all of us with a broad brush ... you'd have been wrong again

Sorry mate, I dont get your response.

BagnaBound said if he had asked the question “I’m thinking about taking a hammer to the Erawan Shine, I’m just curious what the probable punishment would be?”, how would we have responded?

I gave my personal answer. Dont quite understand why you think I am painting everyone with a broad brush.

[Gary A]

I see a major problem with priorities here. A man who destroys a statue is beaten to death. Another man caught raping a three year old girl is beaten but is able to tell the police that it was consensual and the girl asked him to do it.

[jdinasia]

then State ... besides painting all of us with a broad brush ... you'd have been wrong again

Sorry mate, I dont get your response.

BagnaBound said if he had asked the question “I’m thinking about taking a hammer to the Erawan Shine, I’m just curious what the probable punishment would be?”, how would we have responded?

I gave my personal answer. Dont quite understand why you think I am painting everyone with a broad brush.

sorry ... short term memory loss? forget where you said that all of the people that accept or understand the actions of the people that killed the nutter CONDONE it?

[StateSix]

The mob mentality rules again.

Does anyone here remember the thread about the white guy begging for money? How many posters were ever so ready to 'kick his head in', or worse?

That was for begging, irrespective how you want to paint it - it was for BEGGING.

Now, many here condone (if you accept/understand/sympathise with it you condone it, the murder of some guy who took a hammer to an inanimate idol.

Pathetic, simply pathetic. Murder is murder. We cry foul about Muslims protesting about cartoons but then accept some guy being beaten to death for this.

Get a grip, people.

jdinasia,

are you talking about this quote?

[jdinasia]

thick as a brick ... i give up

[Sing_Sling]

thick as a brick ... i give up

That would apply to you in this case, wouldn't it?