Montclair Wine

[xylophone]

And probably enjoyed some good wines at half the price that they are here – – lucky man!

If you've visited your local Big C you'll probably notice the plethora of cheap "fruit wines" now available, and where once Montclair was the only one, you now have a choice of almost double figures.

With this influx, and the tax increases, the prices now seem all over the place with regards to what you can get for your money. Buying Montclair by the box you will get a litre for under 200 baht, or about 269 baht if you buy a 750 cl bottle, and this is the same sort of price as with the other "fruit wines". I have tried a few of them, and in my book the "Jump Yards" Shiraz is the best of the bunch, even though it includes fruit juice added in Vietnam where it is fermented and bottled.

Above these, is where the fun and games as regards prices really starts................. for example, the latest offering from Warburn Estate, called "The Brass Razu", is priced at around 770 baht per bottle and it is from an area not famous for its quality wines. In comparison one can buy the Penfold's Private Release 2012 Shiraz/Cabernet for 749 baht or the Taylors Promised Land for around 699 baht.

Then there come wines like "The Pump" and "Bushmans Gully" priced at around 650 baht, when I used to buy "The Pump" for 285 baht per bottle, so you can see that the price variation does not seem to be uniform?

For me, seeking out the better wines for the money is where I am at and I would certainly pick the Penfold's or the Taylors over other offerings out there. Or I will continue my search for "discounted" wines and take advantage of these where I can, and I've already mentioned that Tesco Lotus are having a big clear out of wines, and a couple of standout wines for me have been the "Long Neck" South African Pinotage 2010 and the Beringer Estate C/S 2010, both at 199 baht a bottle.

It pays to look around and also to try wines from other countries whilst the Thai wine market seems so convoluted and overpriced.

[eezergood]

Still have that pinotage mate?

[xylophone]

Still have that pinotage mate?

All gone I'm afraid eezergood.............still have a few others on sale though so worth while rummaging through them.

[xylophone]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, there seems to be a huge influx of these "fruit wines" (for those who haven't been following, fruit juice added to wine) and another one I have just discovered to add to the Montclair stable is one called "Cask 88".

On the label it says it is an Australian wine and also mentions coming from "down under", and it mentions grapes, but no mention of fruit juice added, but the giveaway is the wording on the label at the bottom (back) which says "fruit wine".

Perhaps the further giveaway is the fact that although it is labelled an Australian wine, it is also produced and bottled by Siam Winery, the same mob who are making the majority of the other fruit wines.

Anyway, I continued with my bargain-hunting and picked up 20 bottles of mostly Australian wines which were discounted between 40 to 50% and these included Taylor's Promised Land and Rothbury Estate, plus a couple of wines from southern Italy which look promising.

As long as I can buy the "real thing" at between 50 and 100 baht more than the fruit wine, then that is what will be going into my wine fridge.

[GrantSmith]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, there seems to be a huge influx of these "fruit wines" (for those who haven't been following, fruit juice added to wine) and another one I have just discovered to add to the Montclair stable is one called "Cask 88".

On the label it says it is an Australian wine and also mentions coming from "down under", and it mentions grapes, but no mention of fruit juice added, but the giveaway is the wording on the label at the bottom (back) which says "fruit wine".

Perhaps the further giveaway is the fact that although it is labelled an Australian wine, it is also produced and bottled by Siam Winery, the same mob who are making the majority of the other fruit wines.

Anyway, I continued with my bargain-hunting and picked up 20 bottles of mostly Australian wines which were discounted between 40 to 50% and these included Taylor's Promised Land and Rothbury Estate, plus a couple of wines from southern Italy which look promising.

As long as I can buy the "real thing" at between 50 and 100 baht more than the fruit wine, then that is what will be going into my wine fridge.

Interesting the influx of these fruit wines, I said earlier that these would probably decline, I guess in the short term I was wrong. Long term I still maintain my earlier position, which is backed up by a proposed increase in excise tax on fruit juice and soft drinks. Whilst this hasn't been passed by the Ministry of Finance, it's looking likely. The proposed formula follows in a similar path as the alcohol excise tax this time last year.

This may have been the increase that was being bemoaned by a certain group a few months back.

It should (hopefully) slow the amount of these fruit wines being bandied around.

As for your Bin hunting xylophone, Rothbury Estate can't believe they're still around that Sem Sauv was a 'house wine' favorite for many hotels and bars back home with a wholesale price of around $4.50, how much is it going for here ฿400-500? Certainly better than Jacob's Creek, but Taylor's is always a safe bet.

[xylophone]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, there seems to be a huge influx of these "fruit wines" (for those who haven't been following, fruit juice added to wine) and another one I have just discovered to add to the Montclair stable is one called "Cask 88".

On the label it says it is an Australian wine and also mentions coming from "down under", and it mentions grapes, but no mention of fruit juice added, but the giveaway is the wording on the label at the bottom (back) which says "fruit wine".

Perhaps the further giveaway is the fact that although it is labelled an Australian wine, it is also produced and bottled by Siam Winery, the same mob who are making the majority of the other fruit wines.

Anyway, I continued with my bargain-hunting and picked up 20 bottles of mostly Australian wines which were discounted between 40 to 50% and these included Taylor's Promised Land and Rothbury Estate, plus a couple of wines from southern Italy which look promising.

As long as I can buy the "real thing" at between 50 and 100 baht more than the fruit wine, then that is what will be going into my wine fridge.

Interesting the influx of these fruit wines, I said earlier that these would probably decline, I guess in the short term I was wrong. Long term I still maintain my earlier position, which is backed up by a proposed increase in excise tax on fruit juice and soft drinks. Whilst this hasn't been passed by the Ministry of Finance, it's looking likely. The proposed formula follows in a similar path as the alcohol excise tax this time last year.

This may have been the increase that was being bemoaned by a certain group a few months back.

It should (hopefully) slow the amount of these fruit wines being bandied around.

As for your Bin hunting xylophone, Rothbury Estate can't believe they're still around that Sem Sauv was a 'house wine' favorite for many hotels and bars back home with a wholesale price of around $4.50, how much is it going for here ฿400-500? Certainly better than Jacob's Creek, but Taylor's is always a safe bet.

I picked up the Rothbury estate Shiraz/Cabernet 2010 for 349 baht a bottle and think it has been around the 500 baht + in its time here.

Have always liked Taylor's wines because IMO even their bottom rung wine is very well crafted and I've never been disappointed with any of their products.

Don't really know why the Promised Land 2013 Shiraz/Cabernet is being discounted by 300 baht a bottle, along with a couple of other pretty good Aussie wines, however with the sale of these wines comes the influx of the "fruit wines" so perhaps they are clearing the shelves to concentrate on the the influx of cheaper wines?

[xylophone]

Did find some Tempus Two Shiraz and Cab/Merlot (Limestone Coast) 2011 at a knocked down price and bought them even though I know nothing about them, except that other wines from the Limestone Coast I've tried have been excellent.

Do you have any experience with them GS?

[GrantSmith]

I do have a history with Tempus Two and I had a massive blow up with their national sales manager many moons ago at a function.

No idea if the guy still works for them, however, since that incident I've not looked at a bottle of Tempus Two.

From memory it was middle of the road nothing special given the price. If it's been knocked down that's a decent price

The bottle shape puts me off it as well as does the distributer...

[xylophone]

I do have a history with Tempus Two and I had a massive blow up with their national sales manager many moons ago at a function.

No idea if the guy still works for them, however, since that incident I've not looked at a bottle of Tempus Two.

From memory it was middle of the road nothing special given the price. If it's been knocked down that's a decent price

The bottle shape puts me off it as well as does the distributer...

GS, maybe that was a different wine because these are the traditional high shouldered Bordeaux style bottles? Having said that, I tried the 2011 Cabernet/Merlot last night and I was disappointed with it, and it puzzles me how they could take supposedly premium grapes from the Limestone Coast and make something so average?

It was aged in French and American oak and I would say it has spent too long in cask because for something three years old it is the equivalent of at least double that in tasting terms. Not altogether unpleasant and still a good buy at the price, but disappointing all the same.

On the subject of the "Cask 88" that I mentioned earlier, a further look at the bottle label states that it has been "specially selected by Tesco", so obviously the makers of Montclair (Siam winery) have gotten into bed with Tesco's in order to promote this fruit wine.........and yet still more arriving!!

Thailand..............fruit wine hub of the world!!!

[eezergood]

Don't forget Deli has some wines too

[GrantSmith]

Xylophone,

Nope it's the same bottle, hasn't changed in those years. Another thing that annoys me about that bottle: the <deleted> metal badge!

[xylophone]

Xylophone,

Nope it's the same bottle, hasn't changed in those years. Another thing that annoys me about that bottle: the <deleted> metal badge!

Hmmm........these bottles didn't have a metal badge GS??

I noticed them at Villa Market for around 850 baht, so buying them for 399 baht wasn't all bad, although as I said previously, the Cabernet Merlot was too old for its year, however the Shiraz was a better drink, but again, how the winemakers couldn't make a better wine out of premium grapes from a premium site is a mystery.

[xylophone]

Don't forget Deli has some wines too

Thanks for the reminder eezergood, although I'm not sure that he has the same sort of "clearance" bargains that I have been posting about?

About three or four years ago I helped him clear a lot of his stock, after tasting some of it and organising a grand wine sale for him, because some of it was just too old and I think the distributors were taking advantage of the fact that one of his juniors ordered the wine, and having no knowledge of what she was ordering, it wasn't always good stuff.

In fact some of the stock which had just then arrived, was well over the top and I suggested he sent it back because he actually didn't order it, it was being dumped on them basically. I think he got his act together after that and put a tighter rein on his wine ordering and indeed the stock he kept, so now he keeps about 35% of what he once did.

Having said that, there were some good wines to be had at the cut-price sale at the time, because the Aussie wines were able to stand a few years ageing much better than some of the cheaper French and Italian wines he was stocking.

On another subject, did you manage to get to Tesco Lotus to see what wines they were clearing out?

[eezergood]

Never made it to be honest, flat out like a lizard drinking at the moment

[xylophone]

Have discovered yet more wines with fruit juice added, this time at Villa Market, so the trend started by Montclair rolls on and on........

The wines are from Cumulus Estate in NSW (Oz) and are called, "Chasing Clouds" and "Rolling" and both state on the back labels that it is a mixture of grapes and fruit juice, so at least they are up front (back!!) about it!

So I suppose that making a wine this way, the Aussie producer can put a lower wholesale price on it thereby lowering the tax paid here in Thailand, resulting in a lower retail price............these were "low" by comparison to other non fruit added wines and have no apparent connection to Siam Winery.

[GrantSmith]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Xylophone,

Nope it's the same bottle, hasn't changed in those years. Another thing that annoys me about that bottle: the <deleted> metal badge!

Hmmm........these bottles didn't have a metal badge GS??

I noticed them at Villa Market for around 850 baht, so buying them for 399 baht wasn't all bad, although as I said previously, the Cabernet Merlot was too old for its year, however the Shiraz was a better drink, but again, how the winemakers couldn't make a better wine out of premium grapes from a premium site is a mystery.

Ahhh... It must be their entry level varietal series that they must be trying to flog off here...

http://www.tempustwo.com.au/collection/varietal/cabernet-merlot/

Is that the label? If so, no wonder I was confused, as I mentioned earlier I hadn't had this winery for many a year before they'd brought this "varietal" (read: entry level) series and I was used to the now "Pewter" and "Copper" series with those gawdy metal badges and off putting bottles.

Have discovered yet more wines with fruit juice added, this time at Villa Market, so the trend started by Montclair rolls on and on........

The wines are from Cumulus Estate in NSW (Oz) and are called, "Chasing Clouds" and "Rolling" and both state on the back labels that it is a mixture of grapes and fruit juice, so at least they are up front (back!!) about it!

So I suppose that making a wine this way, the Aussie producer can put a lower wholesale price on it thereby lowering the tax paid here in Thailand, resulting in a lower retail price............these were "low" by comparison to other non fruit added wines and have no apparent connection to Siam Winery.

Cumulus Estate a fruit wine? Jesus wept but here's something interesting. Just went through their tasting notes that are available online and everything appears to be 100% grape content.

https://wic029v.server-secure.com/vs148640_secure/cms2/assets/Tasting%20Notes_Rolling_Shiraz_2012.pdf

https://wic029v.server-secure.com/vs148640_secure/cms2/assets/Tasting%20Notes_Rolling_Shiraz_2012.pdf

There were 2 wines listed that didn't give percentage for the contents which suggests these maybe fruit wines but these fall under their "Luna Rosa" and "Anthropology" brands, no Thai distributor is listed so can't see who's bringing it in.

https://wic029v.server-secure.com/vs148640_secure/cms2/assets/Tasting%20Notes_Luna_Rosa_Rosado_2014.pdf

https://wic029v.server-secure.com/vs148640_secure/cms2/assets/2011_Anthropology_Shiraz_TastingNote_LG.pdf

I wonder where the fruit juice content is getting added? Could well be worth looking into xylophone if you care to share the back label

[xylophone]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Xylophone,

Nope it's the same bottle, hasn't changed in those years. Another thing that annoys me about that bottle: the <deleted> metal badge!

Hmmm........these bottles didn't have a metal badge GS??

I noticed them at Villa Market for around 850 baht, so buying them for 399 baht wasn't all bad, although as I said previously, the Cabernet Merlot was too old for its year, however the Shiraz was a better drink, but again, how the winemakers couldn't make a better wine out of premium grapes from a premium site is a mystery.

Ahhh... It must be their entry level varietal series that they must be trying to flog off here...

http://www.tempustwo.com.au/collection/varietal/cabernet-merlot/

Is that the label? If so, no wonder I was confused, as I mentioned earlier I hadn't had this winery for many a year before they'd brought this "varietal" (read: entry level) series and I was used to the now "Pewter" and "Copper" series with those gawdy metal badges and off putting bottles.

Have discovered yet more wines with fruit juice added, this time at Villa Market, so the trend started by Montclair rolls on and on........

The wines are from Cumulus Estate in NSW (Oz) and are called, "Chasing Clouds" and "Rolling" and both state on the back labels that it is a mixture of grapes and fruit juice, so at least they are up front (back!!) about it!

So I suppose that making a wine this way, the Aussie producer can put a lower wholesale price on it thereby lowering the tax paid here in Thailand, resulting in a lower retail price............these were "low" by comparison to other non fruit added wines and have no apparent connection to Siam Winery.

Cumulus Estate a fruit wine? Jesus wept but here's something interesting. Just went through their tasting notes that are available online and everything appears to be 100% grape content.

https://wic029v.server-secure.com/vs148640_secure/cms2/assets/Tasting%20Notes_Rolling_Shiraz_2012.pdf

https://wic029v.server-secure.com/vs148640_secure/cms2/assets/Tasting%20Notes_Rolling_Shiraz_2012.pdf

There were 2 wines listed that didn't give percentage for the contents which suggests these maybe fruit wines but these fall under their "Luna Rosa" and "Anthropology" brands, no Thai distributor is listed so can't see who's bringing it in.

https://wic029v.server-secure.com/vs148640_secure/cms2/assets/Tasting%20Notes_Luna_Rosa_Rosado_2014.pdf

https://wic029v.server-secure.com/vs148640_secure/cms2/assets/2011_Anthropology_Shiraz_TastingNote_LG.pdf

I wonder where the fruit juice content is getting added? Could well be worth looking into xylophone if you care to share the back label

Hi GS, firstly, the Tempus Two wine I tasted was the same as the link you posted, probably their entry-level wines, however they were being sold off at less than half price, so thought it was worth a punt.

As for the Cumulus Estate being a fruit wine, I have seen their other wines on sale here and they are up in the 700 baht mark and I have never seen any mention of fruit juice, however on the latest two I saw, there was (I was pretty sure of it although I didn't have my glasses on at the time so I will take them when I next visit Villa Market).

Perhaps they are being specifically made for the Thai market, because I am very sure that the label stated that the content was a mix of certain grapes and fruit juice, thereby implying that it was added at source?

Now you being knowledgeable in this area, would it be financially feasible for a producer to do this just for the Thai market, or could it also be released in Australia, for example, as a wine aimed at the lower end of the market, although it would seem that that end of the market is already flooded with cheapies?

[GrantSmith]

Glad we cleared that Tempus Two up... Not surprised it found its way into the special bin, half price, good BBQ wine.

As to the question of would adding fruit juice be feasible for the producer to do it specifically for one market, it would largely depend on the volume being produced. If the volume is significent enough then the winery could certainly produce it for the individual market.

But for the most part I'd think they would come into an AEC country in bulk and then bottled and then shipped over to Thailand via Road/Train/Sea.

Might have to go for a look later and see if I can track a bottle down, I'm pretty sure I've seen it around all the usual suspects.

[xylophone]

Glad we cleared that Tempus Two up... Not surprised it found its way into the special bin, half price, good BBQ wine.

As to the question of would adding fruit juice be feasible for the producer to do it specifically for one market, it would largely depend on the volume being produced. If the volume is significent enough then the winery could certainly produce it for the individual market.

But for the most part I'd think they would come into an AEC country in bulk and then bottled and then shipped over to Thailand via Road/Train/Sea.

Might have to go for a look later and see if I can track a bottle down, I'm pretty sure I've seen it around all the usual suspects.

More info on the Cumulus wines mystery......................the "Rolling" wine is called "Grand Reserve Red, Bin 22" and it states on the back of the label that the wine is a blend of Shiraz and fruit juice, made in Australia and nowhere on the label does it say "Fruit Wine"??

From what I can make out it is distributed in Thailand by "Touch Distributors" (or something very similar to that).

I have looked on Google for that wine and cannot find it, so perhaps it is a new one, specially made for this particular market/Asian market?

[GrantSmith]

Will be interesting to see how many of these fruit wines are entered into today's Thai International Wine Competition taking place today here in Bangkok.

I'll of course update concerned wineo's in a few hours with the results

[xylophone]

Will be interesting to see how many of these fruit wines are entered into today's Thai International Wine Competition taking place today here in Bangkok.

I'll of course update concerned wineo's in a few hours with the results

Surely they wouldn't be so brazen as to enter these wines??

On the one hand they may not want attention brought to the fact that they do contain fruit juice, however on the other hand, perhaps they're hoping for a win or two so that they can "prove" that these wines are as good as any on the market?

By the way, the wines mentioned above are handled in Thailand by, Touch Commercial Distributors Bangkok, and I think they also handle the Grant Burge range.

Would be interested to know what happens in the competition GS.

[xylophone]

Many folk have contributed in the past to the Montclair Wine thread, however things seem to have gone quiet of late and there seems to be only two or three posters using it these days.

I did start to write about a few wine bargains I found around the place and I quite like doing it, however I am interested to know if anyone has ever tried any of my recommendations, or if indeed they have been of any help………. and of course, should I keep doing it?

More discussions on wine would be great, and as you will see from some of my posts, even though I am passionate about wine and have a fairly good knowledge of it, I too have learnt from what other folk have posted, so please keep the information and the thread going.

[GrantSmith]

Sorry gents things got a bit sideways last night and there was a bit too much imbibing.

Suffice to say and much to my total amazement, Montclair bagged 2 trophies yesterday.

Premium Sweet Wine: Montclair Moscato

Premium Sparkling: Montclair Sparkling Brut Rosé

I didn't try the Sparkling but the Moscato I nearly spat out, absolute lolly water, my wife refused to even smell it haha

I had a wee word to the judges about this and was basically dismissed as a conspiracy theorist for suggesting such things.

Interesting competition that by all accounts adheres to the principles of wine competitions. Well, for the most part anyway.

[xylophone]

Sorry gents things got a bit sideways last night and there was a bit too much imbibing.

Suffice to say and much to my total amazement, Montclair bagged 2 trophies yesterday.

Premium Sweet Wine: Montclair Moscato

Premium Sparkling: Montclair Sparkling Brut Rosé

I didn't try the Sparkling but the Moscato I nearly spat out, absolute lolly water, my wife refused to even smell it haha

I had a wee word to the judges about this and was basically dismissed as a conspiracy theorist for suggesting such things.

Interesting competition that by all accounts adheres to the principles of wine competitions. Well, for the most part anyway.

Did those Montclair wines have fruit juice in the making of them?

[GrantSmith]

Did those Montclair wines have fruit juice in the making of them?

On the back of the label is "fruit wine", the argument was that it was just added on there in order to lower the taxes, I called bullshit and asked if they read the Thai language label? Suffice to say it was a little bit awkward after that.

[xylophone]

Did those Montclair wines have fruit juice in the making of them?

On the back of the label is "fruit wine", the argument was that it was just added on there in order to lower the taxes, I called bullshit and asked if they read the Thai language label? Suffice to say it was a little bit awkward after that.

I guess we've always known that if you are well connected and have money in Thailand, then you can do just about anything.

In other countries this would not be allowed, but then again "TIT".

Would love to see a similar thing happening in an international fruit juice competition, whereby the winning fruit juice was found to have wine added to it, and when questioned about this, the manufacturer simply stated that it was to help with the preservation of it.

[GrantSmith]

Further what was of interest were the wines that won trophies all had a similar element evident in them, sweetness, now that's not necessarily a bad thing but it was very evident that the judges had a preference for residual sugar.

The overall winning wine, a Cab Sauv from McManis, was like drinking a red jelly bean as was their Chardonnay which also jagged a trophy.

[xylophone]

Further what was of interest were the wines that won trophies all had a similar element evident in them, sweetness, now that's not necessarily a bad thing but it was very evident that the judges had a preference for residual sugar.

The overall winning wine, a Cab Sauv from McManis, was like drinking a red jelly bean as was their Chardonnay which also jagged a trophy.

From what info I can garner, this wine is a comparative cheapie in the USA..........what does it retail for here?

From my perspective I very often find a hint of "sweetness" on some of the Californian wines, more so the cheaper wines.

Who is the importer/distributor in Thailand for this wine GS?

[GrantSmith]

From what info I can garner, this wine is a comparative cheapie in the USA..........what does it retail for here?

From my perspective I very often find a hint of "sweetness" on some of the Californian wines, more so the cheaper wines.

Who is the importer/distributor in Thailand for this wine GS?

That's the impression I got as well, xylophone, not sure what it retails for here but I'm pretty sure it wholesales for under 700 baht.

World Class Wines / Wine 5 / California Wine Co. or whatever the &lt;deleted&gt; they're calling themselves today is the importer/distributor...

[GrantSmith]

From what info I can garner, this wine is a comparative cheapie in the USA..........what does it retail for here?

From my perspective I very often find a hint of "sweetness" on some of the Californian wines, more so the cheaper wines.

Who is the importer/distributor in Thailand for this wine GS?

That's the impression I got as well, xylophone, not sure what it retails for here but I'm pretty sure it wholesales for under 700 baht.

World Class Wines / Wine 5 / California Wine Co. or whatever the they're calling themselves today is the importer/distributor...

So I did some looking around, it's retailing at around 1110 baht...

http://www.wine.co.th/new/wine_catalog.php?select_category=11