Montclair Wine

[Bcgardener]

Some help from the experts on this forum please? A number of years ago back in Oz I went to several wine appreciation functions and also also some teaching on judging wines to see if they have cellaring potential or have reached their peak.

Tonight I have opened a 2012 Chandon shiraz From Victoria (Oz) that I just purchased. 14% alcohol and a lovely body . When I tilt the glass slightly and look at the "edge" of the wine against the glass I see a nice red translucent "corona" but with a slightly grey top to it? I know that the presence of a slightly brown top means the wine will probably not get any better but what does the grey tinge mean? The wine drinks well and giving it 20 minutes or so to breathe has smoothed it out nicely.

Any help is appreciated.

[xylophone]

Some help from the experts on this forum please? A number of years ago back in Oz I went to several wine appreciation functions and also also some teaching on judging wines to see if they have cellaring potential or have reached their peak.

Tonight I have opened a 2012 Chandon shiraz From Victoria (Oz) that I just purchased. 14% alcohol and a lovely body . When I tilt the glass slightly and look at the "edge" of the wine against the glass I see a nice red translucent "corona" but with a slightly grey top to it? I know that the presence of a slightly brown top means the wine will probably not get any better but what does the grey tinge mean? The wine drinks well and giving it 20 minutes or so to breathe has smoothed it out nicely.

Any help is appreciated.

Well Bcg, I'll give it a go!!

It's a nice wine, as I tried the 2007 just a few weeks ago and it needed some decanting to allow it to open up a little, and I would suppose the 2012 would need a few years in bottle to reach its full potential, so age isn't a problem at this moment in time.

Can't remember ever having seen a grey tinge at the edge of a wine, unless it is a trick of light, or did the glass have any residue of any sort in it, because some washing-up liquids and so on can leave a hazy finish to a glass or residue which could rest on the rim of the wine?

Don't think it could be anything from the filtering process because these days, if a wine has been filtered, nothing will be left of the filtering agent to see.

As for your comment as regards "a slightly brown top", well most wines which have had some sort of ageing, especially in oak, will exhibit just a hint of brown at the edge, which is no bad thing, and with your wine being just a couple of years old, I would imagine it's got a way to go yet before it reaches its peak, when you can quite clearly see that more than the edge of the wine is brown, in fact the first centimetre or two can have the brownish tinge.

That's my take on it, however perhaps people like GrantSmith or Eezergood, or indeed any other contributors may have an answer?

[GrantSmith]

Was it more of a steel like flint colour? This would be evident in younger wines as they make their way through the bottle aging process. I generally find like a blue grey tint in younger wines but the colour itself is arbitary and can branch the spectrum from ruby red to slate grey.

Mostly light playing tricks on us that an after a bit of imbibing you could tell me it's pink with purple polka dots and I'd probably be able to agree with you

In general a young wine that has a brown tinge at the top is suffering from oxidisation and would best be thrown out or turned into vinegar (as that's the way it's headed) an older wine that has that brown tinge is suffering old age which for a wine, unlike us, is generally a good thing

[eezergood]

I would go with Grant, but if you have a very rounded glass ( typical old school claret style) and look at most wines under strip light you certainly wont get a clear picture. Use a clean, no soap, water glass and look at the wine in daylight against a white background......

[Bcgardener]

Thanks for your comments. I think steel grey is a good description and the fact that it is only 2012 and quite young for a Shiraz probably explains it. A very nice wine though. Not up there with a Redman Shiraz but a nice drink. I thought I would open this one to try and if good buy a few more to keep. Friendship Mart in Pattaya has it at 720 Baht, so not bad value.

[xylophone]

Thanks for your comments. I think steel grey is a good description and the fact that it is only 2012 and quite young for a Shiraz probably explains it. A very nice wine though. Not up there with a Redman Shiraz but a nice drink. I thought I would open this one to try and if good buy a few more to keep. Friendship Mart in Pattaya has it at 720 Baht, so not bad value.

Your Chandon Shiraz is about 160 baht cheaper than it is here in Patong, although I'm not sure what the year was like.

Just a little more on the subject of the brown rim at the edge of the wine, although I have since discovered that a blueish/grey tinge to a wine can indicate higher acidity (news to me, however never stop learning).

There are many things which determine whether a wine will have a brownish tinge, even early on in its ageing process, and to illustrate this, a fine French Burgundy (Pinot Noir grape) which will be aged in oak, will have a brownish tinge after two years in bottle, however this wine will last 10 to 20 years plus, and will fetch quite a huge price.

The things which mainly determine what colour the wine will look like, even at the edge, include the type of grape, the quality of the harvest, the fermentation process and how long the wine is left in contact with the skins, the ageing process and whether it is aged in oak or not, and of course the type of wine which the winemaker decides to produce, i.e. that for early drinking or that for keeping.

A Bardolino wine from Italy which is a light fruity wine for easy drinking, will have a brown tinge to it, not long after bottling, whereas with the Shiraz and Cabernet Sauvignon wines I have tasted from Australia, which are over 10 years old, the brownish tinge is barely discernible........ so you can see there are many things which make a difference.

If the wine is oxidised, it will also go brownish colour, and smell something like Sherry, whereas if the wine is contaminated with acetobacter it will start to undergo a process turning it into vinegar and of course that can also be detected when the cork is extracted.

So to sum it up, a brown tinge to the wine is not a bad thing and certainly a wine should not be judged on that observation alone.

[GrantSmith]

Thanks for your comments. I think steel grey is a good description and the fact that it is only 2012 and quite young for a Shiraz probably explains it. A very nice wine though. Not up there with a Redman Shiraz but a nice drink. I thought I would open this one to try and if good buy a few more to keep. Friendship Mart in Pattaya has it at 720 Baht, so not bad value.

Your Chandon Shiraz is about 160 baht cheaper than it is here in Patong, although I'm not sure what the year was like.

Just a little more on the subject of the brown rim at the edge of the wine, although I have since discovered that a blueish/grey tinge to a wine can indicate higher acidity (news to me, however never stop learning).

There are many things which determine whether a wine will have a brownish tinge, even early on in its ageing process, and to illustrate this, a fine French Burgundy (Pinot Noir grape) which will be aged in oak, will have a brownish tinge after two years in bottle, however this wine will last 10 to 20 years plus, and will fetch quite a huge price.

The things which mainly determine what colour the wine will look like, even at the edge, include the type of grape, the quality of the harvest, the fermentation process and how long the wine is left in contact with the skins, the ageing process and whether it is aged in oak or not, and of course the type of wine which the winemaker decides to produce, i.e. that for early drinking or that for keeping.

A Bardolino wine from Italy which is a light fruity wine for easy drinking, will have a brown tinge to it, not long after bottling, whereas with the Shiraz and Cabernet Sauvignon wines I have tasted from Australia, which are over 10 years old, the brownish tinge is barely discernible........ so you can see there are many things which make a difference.

If the wine is oxidised, it will also go brownish colour, and smell something like Sherry, whereas if the wine is contaminated with acetobacter it will start to undergo a process turning it into vinegar and of course that can also be detected when the cork is extracted.

So to sum it up, a brown tinge to the wine is not a bad thing and certainly a wine should not be judged on that observation alone.

Quite right there Khun xylophone regarding the 'brown tinge', I was at a wine tasting earlier in the year where we were given a Pinot Noir from the Yarra Valley. Having looked at the wine in the glass I exclaimed that the wine was looking oxidized and for a 2012 vintage that it was probably down to storage that it had obtained such a colour. I continued to chat with the facilitator and another guest of the event whilst we tasted the wine and we agreed that the wine was exhibiting those traits that Pinot has. We agreed that it wasn't oxidized and was just doing it's thing. A quick google revealed that the 'other person' whom I was discussing the wine about was also the importer.

She was a little embarrassed that we'd all lambasted the wines colour on face value. A little bit more conversation relaxed the situation but she's still to this day a little bent out of shape over it.

C'est la vie.. As the French say

[Bcgardener]

Thanks for the information. My experience with wine producers is pretty much limited to the Southern hemisphere as I find That they offer better value, especially here in Thailand. Plus I find a lot of the European reds to be a little thin for my personal taste. For better or worse my tastes are pretty much tuned to the Coonawarra Shiraz and similar full bodied reds.

[xylophone]

Thanks for the information. My experience with wine producers is pretty much limited to the Southern hemisphere as I find That they offer better value, especially here in Thailand. Plus I find a lot of the European reds to be a little thin for my personal taste. For better or worse my tastes are pretty much tuned to the Coonawarra Shiraz and similar full bodied reds.

No problems with that Bcg, and I agree with your sentiments as regards the wines from Australia in particular.

I was born in the UK and was used to consuming French wines, and some were very good, but pricey, however the average everyday drinker was okay (usually from the South of France/Languedoc region) but nothing special. And it pays to remember that the British had a long-standing "association" with France as regards wine, so many companies were set up in the UK to import French wines only, and it wasn't until the likes of Steven Spurrier (an advocate of French wine) started to import wines from California in the early 70s and bought them to international recognition through the 1976 wine tasting in Paris, where they beat the best of the French.

A couple of years after that, a wine from Spain beat the best of the French in another wine tasting.

The French could be well accused of complacency as regards the British market, because they were still producing millions of litres of thin, cheap wine and exporting them to the UK, thinking they had no competition, and they had no reason to suspect that Australia might be able to compete with them.

The first time I tasted an Australian wine in the UK was in 1977/8, and then it was the infamous "Kanga Rouge" which was (initially) surplus wine from a big Aussie vintage, however it was absolutely stunning compared to the dross in the same price bracket from France.

It's quite easy to see where that led, because Australian wine exports to the UK have increased manifold, whereas those from France have decreased.

There are some stunning wines being made in Australia, and even the everyday "drinkers" offer far better value than those from France. As an example, if I wanted to buy and every day Cote du Rhône (South of France) here in Thailand I would pay around 800 to 1000 baht for a bottle, and it would be relatively fruit driven wine, but without the fruit really coming through and very one-dimensional. Compare that to a bottle of say Taylors Promised Land/or Cabernet Sauvignon at 699 baht and there really wouldn't be any comparison, because the Aussie wine is a fruit driven/fruit forward wine which has some complexity and in which you can smell and taste berry fruits, whether they be blackcurrant or blackberry and so on.

I have compared those two wines because they compete in the same area of the market, yet IMO there is no comparison with the Aussie wine winning hands down.

At the top end of the market, well the French wines still demand and fetch the highest prices of any wines in the world, but then that's not for us every day expats to be able to afford here in Thailand.

For the record I can see the benefits in wines from many countries around the world, however Australia seems to have it sewn up with regard to the fruit driven and very drinkable wines, not to mention some extremely good top end stuff.

Edited September 17, 2014 by xylophone

[xylophone]

PS. Steven Spurrier, as I mentioned, was a French wine merchant (he was English) and advocate, and he bought the wines from California over to France for the 1976 "judgement of Paris" wine tasting (as it has been called since) because some folks had been saying that the Californian wines were extremely good and could compete with the French.

I believe it was his intention to show that this was not the case and that the Californian wines would show poorly against the best of the French, however that wasn't the case. When some of the Californian wines beat out the best of the French, people cried foul about this, however it pays to remember that it was a blind tasting and that the tasters were mostly French (I think).

However this unwittingly opened up the USA market and it has gone from strength to strength from there.

Edited September 17, 2014 by xylophone

[GrantSmith]

PS. Steven Spurrier, as I mentioned, was a French wine merchant (he was English) and advocate, and he bought the wines from California over to France for the 1976 "judgement of Paris" wine tasting (as it has been called since) because some folks had been saying that the Californian wines were extremely good and could compete with the French.

I believe it was his intention to show that this was not the case and that the Californian wines would show poorly against the best of the French, however that wasn't the case. When some of the Californian wines beat out the best of the French, people cried foul about this, however it pays to remember that it was a blind tasting and that the tasters were mostly French (I think).

However this unwittingly opened up the USA market and it has gone from strength to strength from there.

There's a documovie out there about Spurrier and his crusades...

"Bottle Shock" not a bad movie if you're unfamiliar with the story..

[xylophone]

PS. Steven Spurrier, as I mentioned, was a French wine merchant (he was English) and advocate, and he bought the wines from California over to France for the 1976 "judgement of Paris" wine tasting (as it has been called since) because some folks had been saying that the Californian wines were extremely good and could compete with the French.

I believe it was his intention to show that this was not the case and that the Californian wines would show poorly against the best of the French, however that wasn't the case. When some of the Californian wines beat out the best of the French, people cried foul about this, however it pays to remember that it was a blind tasting and that the tasters were mostly French (I think).

However this unwittingly opened up the USA market and it has gone from strength to strength from there.

There's a documovie out there about Spurrier and his crusades...

"Bottle Shock" not a bad movie if you're unfamiliar with the story..

Thanks GS, I'll have a look for it..............read about it years ago and should really do some more research on it, so this will help.

[GrantSmith]

Thanks GS, I'll have a look for it..............read about it years ago and should really do some more research on it, so this will help.

Yeah I only watched it this year, having forgotten about it when it was out back in '07, another good one to watch is "Red Obsession" which is more focussed on the Chinese obsession with Bordeaux, personally I thought Red Obsession was much better but different strokes for different folks.

[eezergood]

Guess what I am watching tonight......

[xylophone]

Watched the movie "Bottle Shock" last night and it was very entertaining, weaving a Hollywood type story into an actual event.

I think the words that Alan Rickman spoke at the end of the movie, when he said something along the lines of, "we have opened the door to the world" were very true.

It has to be remembered that wines had been made in France since around 2000 BC (and possibly earlier), so there was a tradition of winemaking and that developed over the years, making France the producer of great wines at one end of the scale, and poor wines at the other end.

Nothing ever persuaded them to change, and in fact the inheritance laws relating to the passing on of vineyards became very convoluted in some areas, making advances in winemaking techniques and technology almost non-existent.

Parochialism was rife and there was a time when no wine shop/merchant in Bordeaux would ever stock anything other than Bordeaux wines, and the same went for Burgundy and so on. This started to change when the wine supermarkets came on board and folk would travel from the likes of the UK to stock up on duty-free wines, but not a lot I have to say.

If you put that parochialism into context and then add the decimation of the French vineyards by the wine pest phylloxera, then you get some idea of how "precious" they became of their wines, so much so that they refused to believe that anyone else could even match them.

However as history will tell us, there are none so blind as those who will not see, and they refused to believe that other countries could make better wines, or even wines which could match theirs, so they kept on with their old ways, techniques and beliefs, whilst the rest of the world went forward.

What they didn't realise was that many of the French varietals had been planted elsewhere in the world and were being subjected to different winemaking techniques, in fact making very good wines. It wasn't so much that they didn't realise, as much as they didn't want to listen because they thought they were the best.

If you look at the Australian history, then you will find that winemakers from Europe who emigrated to Australia started to do things their way, and even Max Schubert, the founder of Grange, went to Europe to better understand their techniques, then bought them back to Australia and "adapted" them to suit Australia, the grapes and the climate.

So here you have France locked in a time warp not wanting to understand that the rest of the world had moved on as regards winemaking and you only have to look at a couple of examples to see this. This movie showed the great wines and the potential of the Napa Valley, however what was happening at the same time was that other countries were beginning to experiment with grapes and techniques as well.

Take Spain, which had always been famous for its barrel ageing of wines, which suited some palates, but not others. Then Miguel Torres entered his wine into a 1979 Paris wine tasting and won it, beating the finest of the French wines, Chateaux Latour. His was a wine made from Cabernet Sauvignon, with some barrel ageing, and not the usual Spanish Tempranillo grape, so again the French wine trade was aghast that something like this could happen, from Spain of all places (always considered inferior by the French……isn’t everyone I hear you say?).

Just a bit later, the Italians started to come into the picture after planting different grape varieties such as Cabernet Sauvignon and the wines called "Super Tuscans" were born, which again won international recognition for being top quality wines.

So whilst the French wine trade stood still, other countries moved on, however some French winemakers decided they needed to change and especially those in the South of France, which was mainly a place for producing everyday swiggers, and they invited other winemakers in to look at their techniques and to learn from them, and now a few of them produce very good quality wines, which fit somewhere between the old world and New World styles.

The flying winemakers came into the picture whereby winemakers from the likes of Australia, New Zealand, the USA and France would spend time in each other's vineyards looking at ways to learn, and to improve the vintages and the techniques, and in fact one group called the "Rhone Rangers" (formed in the USA I think) took it upon themselves to spread the word to the world about the virtues of the Rhone grapes, and how they could be used to produce great wine in various countries.

So in summary, the fact that many doors have been opened is great for the wine consumer and also great for the winemaker because now that these doors are open they can learn from other countries techniques, and many seek to do so, whilst those that don't will be confined to the history books.

[GrantSmith]

Happy International Grenache Day gents!

Break open your Châteauneuf-du-Pape and Cotes de Rhône or just your favorite straight Grenache or GSM blend

[Bcgardener]

Watched the movie "Bottle Shock" last night and it was very entertaining, weaving a Hollywood type story into an actual event.

I think the words that Alan Rickman spoke at the end of the movie, when he said something along the lines of, "we have opened the door to the world" were very true.

It has to be remembered that wines had been made in France since around 2000 BC (and possibly earlier), so there was a tradition of winemaking and that developed over the years, making France the producer of great wines at one end of the scale, and poor wines at the other end.

Nothing ever persuaded them to change, and in fact the inheritance laws relating to the passing on of vineyards became very convoluted in some areas, making advances in winemaking techniques and technology almost non-existent.

Parochialism was rife and there was a time when no wine shop/merchant in Bordeaux would ever stock anything other than Bordeaux wines, and the same went for Burgundy and so on. This started to change when the wine supermarkets came on board and folk would travel from the likes of the UK to stock up on duty-free wines, but not a lot I have to say.

If you put that parochialism into context and then add the decimation of the French vineyards by the wine pest phylloxera, then you get some idea of how "precious" they became of their wines, so much so that they refused to believe that anyone else could even match them.

However as history will tell us, there are none so blind as those who will not see, and they refused to believe that other countries could make better wines, or even wines which could match theirs, so they kept on with their old ways, techniques and beliefs, whilst the rest of the world went forward.

What they didn't realise was that many of the French varietals had been planted elsewhere in the world and were being subjected to different winemaking techniques, in fact making very good wines. It wasn't so much that they didn't realise, as much as they didn't want to listen because they thought they were the best.

If you look at the Australian history, then you will find that winemakers from Europe who emigrated to Australia started to do things their way, and even Max Schubert, the founder of Grange, went to Europe to better understand their techniques, then bought them back to Australia and "adapted" them to suit Australia, the grapes and the climate.

So here you have France locked in a time warp not wanting to understand that the rest of the world had moved on as regards winemaking and you only have to look at a couple of examples to see this. This movie showed the great wines and the potential of the Napa Valley, however what was happening at the same time was that other countries were beginning to experiment with grapes and techniques as well.

Take Spain, which had always been famous for its barrel ageing of wines, which suited some palates, but not others. Then Miguel Torres entered his wine into a 1979 Paris wine tasting and won it, beating the finest of the French wines, Chateaux Latour. His was a wine made from Cabernet Sauvignon, with some barrel ageing, and not the usual Spanish Tempranillo grape, so again the French wine trade was aghast that something like this could happen, from Spain of all places (always considered inferior by the French……isn’t everyone I hear you say?).

Just a bit later, the Italians started to come into the picture after planting different grape varieties such as Cabernet Sauvignon and the wines called "Super Tuscans" were born, which again won international recognition for being top quality wines.

So whilst the French wine trade stood still, other countries moved on, however some French winemakers decided they needed to change and especially those in the South of France, which was mainly a place for producing everyday swiggers, and they invited other winemakers in to look at their techniques and to learn from them, and now a few of them produce very good quality wines, which fit somewhere between the old world and New World styles.

The flying winemakers came into the picture whereby winemakers from the likes of Australia, New Zealand, the USA and France would spend time in each other's vineyards looking at ways to learn, and to improve the vintages and the techniques, and in fact one group called the "Rhone Rangers" (formed in the USA I think) took it upon themselves to spread the word to the world about the virtues of the Rhone grapes, and how they could be used to produce great wine in various countries.

So in summary, the fact that many doors have been opened is great for the wine consumer and also great for the winemaker because now that these doors are open they can learn from other countries techniques, and many seek to do so, whilst those that don't will be confined to the history books.

Nice read, enjoyed it. I've seen the movie and it is good story. Anyone putting the wind up arrogant French winemakers is okay in my book.

Off to Oz tomorrow for a project meeting so a week of good wines ahead. A friend has a couple of nice reds for me to sample.

[xylophone]

I watched the movie recommended by GrantSmith, called "Red Obsession" and it was very informative and just enjoyable in its own way as the other one recommended, which was called, "Bottle Shock".

There is a point which I should make in order to try and balance some posts and although I'm not trying to be an apologist for the French, they do bring bad press upon themselves sometimes.

In a previous post I mentioned how they were very introspective and thought they had the best wines in the world, therefore did not need to heed wine from other countries and what was happening out there, and to a great extent that is true.

It is also good to look at the big picture to try and get some perspective around this, because although the wine tasting called the "Judgement of Paris" in 1976 shocked the French wine trade, it should be seen for what it was. It compared two vintages in France with similar vintages in California, pure and simple, and although the Californian wines came out on top overall, the French vintages were very close in scores.

What I'm trying to say is that the new kids on the block had some success and good on them for this. As I said previously, trying to look at the big picture, this was a vintage comparison, and really does not take into consideration the fact that the French had been making wines of this top-quality for centuries.

In fact in 1855 there was something called the, "Classification of the wines of the Medoc" (a part of Bordeaux) and this classified the best wines from various chateaux based on prices that had been paid for these wines in previous decades, hoping that the price paid was equivalent to the quality delivered, and in most cases it was correct.

The top chateaux were ranked and called "Premier Cru" (roughly translated first growth, or if you want to look at it another way, the first division), then there were, "Deuxieme Cru" (second growth) right the way down to the fifth growth, just as you would rank teams in sports. Bear in mind that there are thousands of other wines which don’t qualify for this rating.

So these wines had been classified on their quality since prior to 1855, and in 1976 a few were tasted against Californian wines and came up a little short. However it is very important to bear in mind that France had been producing top quality wines for over 150 years before that date.

Take that into consideration and then look at this movie and see how passionate the French are about their vines, their wines, the soil, their microclimates, the love they give to the vines (this from the movie) and their belief of the coming together of these things in what is called Terroir.

Sure they can be snobbish and as I have mentioned previously, very introspective on their wines, but perhaps with some good reason. For the record I have owned and tasted just about all of the wines featured in this movie, and all of them were excellent, with a couple being, so far, unsurpassable in my wine tasting experience.

In summary, the French still make some of the best wines in the world, which command the highest prices, year after year, and have done so for well over 100 years, and no one else has yet come close to that, however unfortunately on the other hand they are also guilty of making some very poor wine at the mid to low range which has really helped to damage the reputation of French wines in general.

[topt]

I have only just rediscovered this thread (link from another post in the Pattaya forum ) and I am only sorry I was not able to participate earlier. Some very interesting posts and opinions from all concerned but especially Xylophone .

A question really I guess for GrantSmith - are there any wine trade shows held in Bangkok that allow non trade people in? The reason I ask is that until Xmas last year I was in Guangzhou in China and they held 2 different shows twice a year where importers/wholesalers/wineries exhibited and members of the public could get in fairly easily and try the wines. I (with some friends) had some very enjoyable times talking to mainly smaller Aussie/NZ and American winery representatives.

It was the best fix by far for reminding oneself of what one was missing wine wise - China having a worse selection generally available at a reasonable price then Thailand.

[GrantSmith]

A question really I guess for GrantSmith - are there any wine trade shows held in Bangkok that allow non trade people in? The reason I ask is that until Xmas last year I was in Guangzhou in China and they held 2 different shows twice a year where importers/wholesalers/wineries exhibited and members of the public could get in fairly easily and try the wines. I (with some friends) had some very enjoyable times talking to mainly smaller Aussie/NZ and American winery representatives.

It was the best fix by far for reminding oneself of what one was missing wine wise - China having a worse selection generally available at a reasonable price then Thailand.

There's probably only one trade show here in Thailand, "Food & Hotel Thailand" that seems to be the only kind of trade show that wine gets involved in. Unfortunately it's a "trade" show in the truest sense. Trade only, unless you knew someone. Even then, it's fairly plane Jane as far as what is available. I know the South African trade commission put in a rather large effort this year and took up quite a bit of space. The yanks did likewise, but it was more of combined and concise offering. The wine competition that is associated with this trade show isn't too bad and you can taste the trophy winning wines on the day, again, you need to be in the trade or know someone who is and can get you in.

There was something similar planned a few years ago - around 2010 - which would have most likely seen a dedicated wine show open to everyone, unfortunately due to "alleged" inflexibility by the Ministry of Finance on import taxes this never went ahead. Shame really.

Given what I saw recently, things "might" change for such events, but I would not hold my breath.

[eezergood]

A question really I guess for GrantSmith - are there any wine trade shows held in Bangkok that allow non trade people in? The reason I ask is that until Xmas last year I was in Guangzhou in China and they held 2 different shows twice a year where importers/wholesalers/wineries exhibited and members of the public could get in fairly easily and try the wines. I (with some friends) had some very enjoyable times talking to mainly smaller Aussie/NZ and American winery representatives.

It was the best fix by far for reminding oneself of what one was missing wine wise - China having a worse selection generally available at a reasonable price then Thailand.

There's probably only one trade show here in Thailand, "Food & Hotel Thailand" that seems to be the only kind of trade show that wine gets involved in. Unfortunately it's a "trade" show in the truest sense. Trade only, unless you knew someone. Even then, it's fairly plane Jane as far as what is available. I know the South African trade commission put in a rather large effort this year and took up quite a bit of space. The yanks did likewise, but it was more of combined and concise offering. The wine competition that is associated with this trade show isn't too bad and you can taste the trophy winning wines on the day, again, you need to be in the trade or know someone who is and can get you in.

There was something similar planned a few years ago - around 2010 - which would have most likely seen a dedicated wine show open to everyone, unfortunately due to "alleged" inflexibility by the Ministry of Finance on import taxes this never went ahead. Shame really.

Given what I saw recently, things "might" change for such events, but I would not hold my breath.

I second what Grant says & this applies to the whole of the F&B industry. There are the odd few wine dinners/tastings but these are populated with mates of the sales rep, sycophants (looking for the next gik/rich moron) or mia nois, all of whom have no idea what they are talking about or drinking. Other than if its paeng mak mak then its good!

[149er]

Montclair and Peter Vella for sure are blended!!! (with apple and pomegranate) and boxed in Thailand and are more expensive than some other imported box wine

[xylophone]

Montclair and Peter Vella for sure are blended!!! (with apple and pomegranate) and boxed in Thailand and are more expensive than some other imported box wine

As are many others (already listed in this thread) and the Montclair is blended with Roselle (Hibiscus....krajeap in Thai) juice.

In other cultures an infusion of this plant is used as a diuretic and a mild laxative............so stay close to the loo if drinking Montclair mak mak!!!!!!

[JetsetBkk]

A bit off topic... , but has anyone seen any Stones Green Ginger Wine anywhere in Phuket?

[xylophone]

A bit off topic... , but has anyone seen any Stones Green Ginger Wine anywhere in Phuket?

stones_green_ginger.jpg

Now there's a blast from the past!!

Haven't seen it on display........however when I was looking for a bottle of Madeira I did find it at The Patong Whisky office in the little Soi off to the left at the end of Soi Rat-u-Thid (where Shakers restaurant was) and they seemed to have a few hard to find drinks there.

Maybe worth a try?

[eezergood]

A bit off topic... , but has anyone seen any Stones Green Ginger Wine anywhere in Phuket?

stones_green_ginger.jpg

Now there's a blast from the past!!

Haven't seen it on display........however when I was looking for a bottle of Madeira I did find it at The Patong Whisky office in the little Soi off to the left at the end of Soi Rat-u-Thid (where Shakers restaurant was) and they seemed to have a few hard to find drinks there.

Maybe worth a try?

Jeez next on the list will be Sanatogen..........

[Old Croc]

A bit off topic... , but has anyone seen any Stones Green Ginger Wine anywhere in Phuket?

stones_green_ginger.jpg

Nothing like a bottle of Stones (in a brown paper bag) when doing a bit of overnight beach fishing on a cold night!

[JetsetBkk]

A bit off topic... , but has anyone seen any Stones Green Ginger Wine anywhere in Phuket?

stones_green_ginger.jpg

Now there's a blast from the past!!

Haven't seen it on display........however when I was looking for a bottle of Madeira I did find it at The Patong Whisky office in the little Soi off to the left at the end of Soi Rat-u-Thid (where Shakers restaurant was) and they seemed to have a few hard to find drinks there.

Maybe worth a try?

I'll be scouring the local shops until I find some.

[xylophone]

Back onto a topic associated with Montclair – – in as much as it is about fruit juice being added to wine.

I watched an interview with the CEO of McGuigan wines the other day and he was saying how the company had decided to move away from producing bulk wines and to focus on moving more upmarket with its brand. The reason being that there is a glut of wine and many people are flooding the market with cheap wine, so there is no margin in it any more, hence the reason to improve its wine and its brand, and move upmarket.

To do so they have sold the bulk wine operation and are focusing on producing better wines and building the brand. On the subject of brand, it was mentioned that "brand Australia" was being undermined by inferior products, and in particular wine products, and Australia needed to be about quality wines and quality produce in general.

That being the case, I had to smile slightly because in view of his comments and others I have heard, on the one hand there is a need to rebuild/keep building Australia's reputation as regards a producer of quality wine, yet here and perhaps in other countries we are being flooded with cheap wine which has grape juice added to it, and most of that now is coming direct from Australia!!!!

It undermines the brand building efforts of some Australian wine producers and will continue to erode Australia's reputation if this carries on. Such a shame.

[raro]

A similar situation Germany was in. They started the U Turn some 20 years ago and still today most people outside of Germany associate German wines with Liebfrauenmilch, blue nun etc., even though the quality has significantly improved.