Maybe I Shouldn't Post This.........nah, It's Ok

[puukao]

I spent 6 months in CM. For a number of months, I was in a guesthouse and befriended an older America (60ish) who had the typical story.

man meets lady, spends all his money on a few houses, 7 years later she kicks him out or something, gets divorce I think (not sure if final), and now he has no other income......none.

he confided in me....'I can survive a few more years.....'. ah, this is not good. not a good way to live. 30 baht dinners, etc....watching your account fall and stressing over the future.....

anyhow.....why the post? maybe, just maybe, if someone on this board wants to talk to him and offer suggestions, well, I don't think that can hurt.

he really is a nice guy and the defeatist mentality cannot be healthy for anyone.

he lived in Austin, tx and you could always use my name if you wanted to stop by.

we are a community, no? lol.......well, i'm about to find out.

thanks

[noise]

Did he leave something out of the story? You said he had no more money but then added that he said he could survive a few more years. Living for a few years takes an income of some kind. Plus he has to show funds in some manner for his visa.

Based on what you wrote, there is nothing anyone can do here.

He, on the other hand, can go back to the U.S. He most likely has social security income, medicare health coverage. He could probably find some kind of job, a night janitor job or a WalMart greeter to make a few dollars.......

Now if you were implying he is becoming or has become chronically depressed, that is an entirely different situation.

[OldChinaHam]

Ahhh. This is always the problem is it not?

Coming up against the hard facts of life too late.

Just when you thought things could not get much worse

They do.

Such is the alienation of the great City Life and ever increasing urbanization that we no longer enjoy a close community

And the knowledge of what awaits us in our waning years

Can't help much either.

[market trader]

Did he leave something out of the story? You said he had no more money but then added that he said he could survive a few more years. Living for a few years takes an income of some kind. Plus he has to show funds in some manner for his visa.

Based on what you wrote, there is nothing anyone can do here.

He, on the other hand, can go back to the U.S. He most likely has social security income, medicare health coverage. He could probably find some kind of job, a night janitor job or a WalMart greeter to make a few dollars.......

Now if you were implying he is becoming or has become chronically depressed, that is an entirely different situation.

Your mention of WalMart greeter has always impressed my wife when we return to Canada. 80 year old men and women working as greeters. Handicapped people sitting in wheelchairs employed as cashiers.

[OldChinaHam]

"Your mention of WalMart greeter has always impressed my wife when we return to Canada. 80 year old men and women working as greeters. Handicapped people sitting in wheelchairs employed as cashiers. "

You are correct.

But also this is nothing that solidarity and community cannot cure.

People sometimes forget that when we really take an accurate poll we find that the majority of us actually do want the same things. And we can get what we want, if we realize that we have much more in common with others than we might think.

[puukao]

I asked him to go back to America, but he said he would not get Social Security and most of his money was from an inheritance. So this is all his life savings....2 more years, maybe. I do think he is depressed, and maybe borderline serious. It's just a sad situation, and I have a feeling it's more common than many realize.

I also wonder if things will get much worse as the money is almost gone. perhaps more drinking, irrational thoughts....just not sure.

he had $200,000 USD not that many years ago, and now is spiraling downward. I know because I can hear it in his voice and tell by his actions...

anyhow, thanks for listening.

[Jingthing]

Social security starts at age 62 but it is based on lifetime earnings credits, so it can be a small check, or even NO CHECK, if the lifetime earnings failed to meet a minimum threshold.

Medicare for senior citizens starts at age 65. But it doesn't cover everything and it can be hard to find doctors willing to take it

Janitor jobs would not be offered to old men without janitorial experience. This may not be PC, but generally these go to younger Hispanics of dubious legality.

Walmart is phasing out the greeters and even if they weren't, there are hundreds of applicants for each greeting job.

The chances of most men at his age finding employment with a long gap and without unusually rare skills in the USA today are quite slim.

Bunch of myths being bandied about here.

[Genericnic]

I asked him to go back to America, but he said he would not get Social Security and most of his money was from an inheritance. So this is all his life savings....2 more years, maybe. I do think he is depressed, and maybe borderline serious. It's just a sad situation, and I have a feeling it's more common than many realize.

I also wonder if things will get much worse as the money is almost gone. perhaps more drinking, irrational thoughts....just not sure.

he had $200,000 USD not that many years ago, and now is spiraling downward. I know because I can hear it in his voice and tell by his actions...

anyhow, thanks for listening.

I'm curious as to why he thinks he would not get Social Security. The basic requirements are at least 62 years old and have at least 40 qualifying quarters (approximately 3-1/2 years total) of contributions. If he is mid 60s, it is highly unlikely that he would not have accumulated the qualifying quarters over the last 40+ years. He really should contact the SSA office in Manilla and check. He might be in for a pleasant surprise.

David

[Jingthing]

I'm curious as to why he thinks he would not get Social Security. The basic requirements are at least 62 years old and have at least 40 qualifying quarters (approximately 3-1/2 years total) of contributions. If he is mid 60s, it is highly unlikely that he would not have accumulated the qualifying quarters over the last 40+ years. He really should contact the SSA office in Manilla and check. He might be in for a pleasant surprise.

David

That information is incorrect. You definitely need to work to much longer than 3.5 years to qualify for the minimum check. However, I definitely agree he should check with SS if he doesn't already know for sure, which I reckon he does.

I will also add even a minimum check, IF he will qualify, with no savings, no owned home to go back to, no relatives willing to help, would likely not even pay the rent in most of the USA, much less afford any kind of decent life.

Maybe he has very good REASONS to be depressed.

It happens.

[junglechef]

But even if he did make the min. required time it would only pay out a small amount which would most probably not be enough to live on. Also the OP never said he had no money left just no source of income. It is a sad and reoccurring circumstance where if there is no family or other close people to help I imagine a very tough one to be in. It's doubtful that there are many others who would be willing to financially help for the reasons stated even if he is a good guy and in dire need of it. There just are too many people out there who for various reasons put themselves in these kinds of situations. I wish him all the luck and well being.

[Genericnic]

I'm curious as to why he thinks he would not get Social Security. The basic requirements are at least 62 years old and have at least 40 qualifying quarters (approximately 3-1/2 years total) of contributions. If he is mid 60s, it is highly unlikely that he would not have accumulated the qualifying quarters over the last 40+ years. He really should contact the SSA office in Manilla and check. He might be in for a pleasant surprise.

David

That information is incorrect. You definitely need to work to much longer than 3.5 years to qualify for the minimum check. However, I definitely agree he should check with SS if he doesn't already know for sure, which I reckon he does.

I will also add even a minimum check, IF he will qualify, with no savings, no owned home to go back to, no relatives willing to help, would likely not even pay the rent in most of the USA, much less afford any kind of decent life.

Maybe he has very good REASONS to be depressed.

It happens.

My bad. Math was never my strong point. Should have been 10 years. Still easily doable over 40+ years.

As for a minimum check, it would probably not pay the rent in the US but he is in Thailand.

And yes, there may be other reasons for being depressed other than finances. Maybe NancyL could give us some ideas of what could benefit him.

David

David

[OldChinaHam]

I still say that this is an example of something that is easily fixable in the US, which has plenty of resources.

There is only the will or the lack of will to solve this problem that stands in the way.

I believe that situations such as you describe will be far fewer in the future when society, even in America, becomes more developed and more understanding about the root causes of poverty and lack of education and suddenly finding oneself destitute.

Too many argue that this problem is not one with which the government should become more involved.

But they would be wrong.

This is not a popular opinion in America because there are too many who do not understand that this is not socialism.

If we do not change our society in the US to better handle our changing society then some of us will be faced with some unexpected and unwanted consequences.

[OldChinaHam]

Of course another observation might be made, and this is that none of us are immune to suddenly finding ourselves on the street with nothing in a hurry when the conditions are right. Some countries provide more social services and more social protections. The US is one country which seems to believe that a helping hand is rarely a good thing, unless provided privately or through a church organization.

Each to his own world view.

But with a better more reality based world view,

Then we just might have a much better world to actually view every day.

[mesquite]

Sad story and maybe the only good thing to come out of this is that he can serve as an example of what not to do.

A friend of mine told me to never make any financial commitment here you cannot walk away from, meaning if you buy her a 4 million baht house, you should have 40 million of your own assets. The house is a gift. Might as well transfer the money directly to her bank account and save the hassle of her having to sell the house to get the cash.

[rubberduck]

Perhaps he can make some money with smoking eel and sell it ? Just an idea. Wish him success.

[Tywais]

That information is incorrect. You definitely need to work to much longer than 3.5 years to qualify for the minimum check. However, I definitely agree he should check with SS if he doesn't already know for sure, which I reckon he does.

Curious about this minimum. I was making SS payments for 4 years while in the military, a pittance though. Then 3 years working in industry, then started work at a university. You are required to make a decision as to stay on SS or switch to the university retirement plan at 18 months. I elected the university plan which means 1.5 years more on SS. I get a report from SS that I am eligible for xx amount of monthly SS. So total of 8.5 paying into the system.

Ahh, just realized I'm going off topic. As it pertains to the OP, that amount that I will get - minimum, wouldn't cover rent in many places. Plus paying into medicare after returning will cut into it even deeper.

[OldChinaHam]

"Ahh, just realized I'm going off topic. As it pertains to the OP,"

Yes, and as you did, I was thinking of the increasing cost of university tuition. But don't worry, we do not blame the profs. The rising tuition is due to so many things OTHER than salaries for the actual teachers, which is a real shame. We obviously need to rethink where we allocate our resources, which need to be spent on education (teachers) and protection for individuals who through no fault of their own, or even through seemingly a fault or mistake of their own, are in danger of falling through the cracks.

The OP describes a tragic/difficult situation that most should be able to feel themselves IF they have a dab of empathy where their hearts should be.

[Mapguy]

It is really astonishing how often one hears this tale. Heard the same thing about two other unfortunates recently.

There's very little information provided by OP, certainly not enough to prescribe any particular solution to his dilemma. Generally speaking, there is no safety net in Thailand for such a person. There are exceptions, for example, where sufficient Thai family and community roots have been established, but certainly none to compare with the governmental and private social services, or opportunities to make some money, however little, available in countries like America, his home country.

[Thighlander]

Of course another observation might be made, and this is that none of us are immune to suddenly finding ourselves on the street with nothing in a hurry when the conditions are right. Some countries provide more social services and more social protections. The US is one country which seems to believe that a helping hand is rarely a good thing, unless provided privately or through a church organization.

Each to his own world view.

But with a better more reality based world view,

Then we just might have a much better world to actually view every day.

47 million on food stamps? 11 million illegals milking the system for all it's worth? Did you actually stay the full three days on your DisneyWorld pass, or did you learn so much about America from Michael Moore?

Tell the guy to grow up. Some gamble away all their money, others put it up their noses, while others use credit cards to destroy their lives; it's simple compulsive behavior. Turn him over to the missionairies; they deserve him. BTW, the economy in Texas, and specifically Austin is quite good.

[NancyL]

Suggest that he check out www.LannaCareNet.org and call or email to set up an appointment with a caseworker to discuss his options. There is no charge for LCN services and they're not trying to sell anything. The information he provides is confidential. There are resources available for assistance that he may have overlooked.

To address some of the specific questions posed -- the American Consulate has at least one person in their American Citizen Services trained in helping people to obtain federal benefits. She works very closely with the Social Security/Medicare office in Manila, but it's not necessary to contact Manila now with your initial inquiries. Set up an appointment with ACS at the Consulate and then email them in advance to outline your areas of concern and they'll have the right person available to talk with you when you come for your appointment.

If the man's situation is as the OP described, then he's in a very dangerous situation. He's one illness or accident away from being in dire straits. He shouldn't delay in sorting thru his options while he still is healthy and able to think clearly.

[OldChinaHam]

"If the man's situation is as the OP described, then he's in a very dangerous situation. He's one illness or accident away from being in dire straits. He shouldn't delay in sorting thru his options while he still is healthy and able to think clearly."

Yes you are correct, AND he may need some help from one or two close friends to help him begin to move one way or another.

[Jingthing]

I think there is some naive thinking going on here. Some people's lives are just messed up with less hope than many might imagine. The person described in the OP funds will last longer in Thailand than in the USA. If it's true he has no social security income due and no support system in the USA, then moving back there will be a living hell, homelessness, sleeping rough, temporary shelters, as long as that lasts. It is very possible for some people the most logical choice is just to spend down here and then something tragic, at least it might last longer. In other words, some people have NO decent choices. None at all. Fact of life really. If it was me, I would probably repatriate but this kind of decision is a personal adult choice. Yes eventually he'll have visa issues and will likely be forced out somehow if it gets to that.

[Dancealot]

I think it's very nice the OP posts this case in order to maybe help another.

I can't help feeling he is dealing with a similar situation himself.

[hellodolly]

I'm curious as to why he thinks he would not get Social Security. The basic requirements are at least 62 years old and have at least 40 qualifying quarters (approximately 3-1/2 years total) of contributions. If he is mid 60s, it is highly unlikely that he would not have accumulated the qualifying quarters over the last 40+ years. He really should contact the SSA office in Manilla and check. He might be in for a pleasant surprise.

David

That information is incorrect. You definitely need to work to much longer than 3.5 years to qualify for the minimum check. However, I definitely agree he should check with SS if he doesn't already know for sure, which I reckon he does.

I will also add even a minimum check, IF he will qualify, with no savings, no owned home to go back to, no relatives willing to help, would likely not even pay the rent in most of the USA, much less afford any kind of decent life.

Maybe he has very good REASONS to be depressed.

It happens.

My bad. Math was never my strong point. Should have been 10 years. Still easily doable over 40+ years.

As for a minimum check, it would probably not pay the rent in the US but he is in Thailand.

And yes, there may be other reasons for being depressed other than finances. Maybe NancyL could give us some ideas of what could benefit him.

David

David

Yes he can pay for rent with the minimum SS check if he retires at 62. I did and I just barely qualified forty quarters needed.

( years later and my check is still under $400 a month). So the rent is doable on it but not much else.

My question when I saw the OP was how was he going to support himself if he still lived in the house. It would at best give him two more years and then what?

He can if he is frugal get a room and utilities for around 4,000 baht a month. Not the place he would want I am sure but it would do the job.

[Jingthing]

If we are take the report in the OP literally, the American in question did NOT work enough credit quarters and therefore will be due BUPKIS from the social security benefits system.

[Tywais]

Just removed several rambling and unhelpful posts for the OP and replies to them.

[hellodolly]

I still say that this is an example of something that is easily fixable in the US, which has plenty of resources.

There is only the will or the lack of will to solve this problem that stands in the way.

I believe that situations such as you describe will be far fewer in the future when society, even in America, becomes more developed and more understanding about the root causes of poverty and lack of education and suddenly finding oneself destitute.

Too many argue that this problem is not one with which the government should become more involved.

But they would be wrong.

This is not a popular opinion in America because there are too many who do not understand that this is not socialism.

If we do not change our society in the US to better handle our changing society then some of us will be faced with some unexpected and unwanted consequences.

"There is only the will or the lack of will to solve this problem that stands in the way"

.

I hope you remembered that in your quest for a suitable place to live and bike paths through out the city.

The fact is the gentleman had not made contingent plans for when he ran out of money. It just so happens that now his money will not last as long due to the fact he will now be facing a rent every month.

I get SS from the states and if I was to go back to live there I would get more money on welfare which the States provides. Unless he has relatives there or a skill that is so in demanfd they don't care about age he will finsd no real answer there either.

[OldChinaHam]

"I can't help feeling he is dealing with a similar situation himself."

This is a very good observation and let us hope that this is also not the case.

[NancyL]

Until the gentleman in question has a complete federal benefits assessment, either in person at the CM U.S. Consulate or over the phone with SSA in Manila, then any supposition of whether he will receive SS and how much is pure speculation -- at that includes his own beliefs of what he may or may not receive.

I've known people who were pleasantly surprised after this interview -- they had overlooked things like student employment, military service and (this can be a biggie), the SS history of a former spouse. (Yes, that's right, guys can claim spousal benefits under the same rules as women) All rocks will be overturned during the initial interview.

I've found the consulate and Manila to be very easy to work with -- they want to make sure American citizens receive everything to which they're entitled. They're very customer oriented -- more so than in my experience with similar officials in the U.S.

Also, if the guy is on overstay or playing games to stay in Thailand -- they won't turn him into Thai authorities. They will probably advise him to correct the situation, but they know the purpose of the interview is to advise on U.S. federal benefits, not enforce Thai immigration regulations.

[hellodolly]

Until the gentleman in question has a complete federal benefits assessment, either in person at the CM U.S. Consulate or over the phone with SSA in Manila, then any supposition of whether he will receive SS and how much is pure speculation -- at that includes his own beliefs of what he may or may not receive.

I've known people who were pleasantly surprised after this interview -- they had overlooked things like student employment, military service and (this can be a biggie), the SS history of a former spouse. (Yes, that's right, guys can claim spousal benefits under the same rules as women) All rocks will be overturned during the initial interview.

I've found the consulate and Manila to be very easy to work with -- they want to make sure American citizens receive everything to which they're entitled. They're very customer oriented -- more so than in my experience with similar officials in the U.S.

Also, if the guy is on overstay or playing games to stay in Thailand -- they won't turn him into Thai authorities. They will probably advise him to correct the situation, but they know the purpose of the interview is to advise on U.S. federal benefits, not enforce Thai immigration regulations

I wrote them a letter in Manila several weeks ago. So far no return answer.