Income Letter Validation

[longball53098]

Hey all,

I read TV daily and try to keep on top of any changes that would affect me or people I know.

Today an American friend called me from Bkk to tell me while he was at our US Embassy picking up a new passport he figured he would get his Income letter for his next retirement extension renewal. ACS (Ameican Citizen Services) informed him that Thai Immigration will not accept an income letter unless the date of the letter is within 15 days of the extension application. ACS told him to come back another day. This was a big surprise for him and now he must plan on another trip to BKK for the letter closer to his renewal time.

Another friend reported to me about 2 weeks ago that Pattaya Immigration told him that beginning next year 2014 that all income letters will only be accepted within a 15 day validation period before the renewal application.

I do not want to start any rumor here. I keep my ear to this forum for any new changes and to date I have not seen or heard of this.

Can any one of the visa experts shed any light on this?

I am due for my extension renewal in late August early Sept. So it would be good to know some clear and precise info on this as it means a trip to BKK as a visit to the US outreach won't work for me this year if this is correct. I plan to visit my Immigration office here in Maptaphut Rayong and ask them if this in fact is the case for me.

Hopefully someone here has something to add..

Thanks

[roiethome]

As I understand, it is up to the local immigration officers to dictate the how long a letter of income is valid. No matter what the 'law' says each office can interpret differently as they like. Just get to know what your local office requires and abide by their demands

[longball53098]

What you say is Ok but in this case the Embassy was refusing to issue the letter. They told the man he would have to return to the embassy when the date was within the 15 days.

[lopburi3]

The Embassy would not refuse to issue the letter - they have no way to know when you will use it and it is a simple notary action for them - they were advising the person that they have been told it must be used within 15 days and that appears to be exactly what you reported in your fist post - not a refusal but advising it would not be accepted - do later - to save him a second trip.

As I have seen another report of a case this week where 15 days limit was mentioned believe it may well be a new regulation from immigration and will plan accordingly. As this effects US Embassy users of the outreach program more than most other Embassies suspect they will be more careful to inform users.

Thanks for the report.

[longball53098]

Lop,

Yes, you are correct. I mis-spoke on my second post as they did say to him "we advise you not get the letter today as it would only be valid for 15 days" and that would have caused him a second trip to ACS.

I would be very curious to know what is behind this change of policy if this is now actual policy

[geraldtx]

If anyone visits the Immigration Officed in Jomtien in the near future please confirm if this policy has taken affect here or if it will in the near future. I am due to extend my retirement visa in September and I was intending to get my letter at the outreach visit to Pattaya on 5 June. There is no sense in wasting my money on this when I may have to repeat it in September.

Thank you

[longball53098]

I inquired with the US ACS in Bangkok about this validation period. They cannot speak to any changes to Thai Immigration policy but this is the response I got from them

"Dear Sir,

The Embassy encourages applicants to direct queries regarding Thai visa requirements to the Thai immigration service and be sure to understand the laws which change periodically.

We have however heard that new rules now make income affidavits valid for only 15 days. Also, retirement visas must be renewed within a 45 day window before the expiration of the previous visa.

Best regards,

American Citizen Services"

[lopburi3]

And that would be two major changes that have not been announced - routinely allowing extension as much as 45 days early and the 15 day limit on letter of income. The 45 day at least is a positive and might help some if the 15 day limit is enforced.

[Pib]

Since a person's income can change significantly in a short period since their income may not be based on a stable, life time pension (like a govt pension), I expect immigration just wants to get a very recent income verification while still giving a reasonable time period (i.e., approx. two weeks) to get the letter from the embassy. Yeap, just for example, a person could be drawing rental income but if the rental house burnt down that would kinda affect the monthly income.

[longball53098]

I may be very naive about what retirees use as income for the income letter and extension and my feelings are that the majority of us old fa%ts get the same income yearly or close to it. I have a tough time thinking the income changes monthly. I sort of base this on the fact that most embassies require documentation that proves a monthly income of 65k or higher per month and rental property income is not very stable as you point out

[Pib]

I've seen quite a few posts over the years where people make a significant portion of their retirement income from home country rentals.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

[Rdrokit]

Any verification on the 15 day window and what it applies to? I can see a 15 day window on a bank letter verifying funds of 800,000 baht but on a embassy letter of monthly income a 15 day windown is a major change.

[lopburi3]

It is about Embassy letter having to be current within 15 days of extension application - as said that is not a confirmed requirement but has been mentioned to several people from reports here.

[Nowhereman60]

Last year I got my letter 2 months prior to the extension and the immigration person ask why so early. I explained that I had to go to the Embassy early for another purpose and did not want to make another trip a month later. No problem at all. Seems the consulate is getting like some immigration officers make up their own rules. Most likely a Thai person trying to act like a boss

[jackspratt]

I have read a post on another Thai-based forum - sourced from the US Embassy - of a new directive to all Thai Immigration offices that income letters will have a validity of six months.

This directive was issued at the end of May, and replaced one from mid-April, which gave only 15 days.

[Rdrokit]

Looks like the US Embassy made a stink of the 15 day window policy and Thai Immiration has changed it to 6 months per the Warden communique below.
rokit

Edited:

original email deleted for privacy reasons
See message by ACS here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/644827-immigration-extends-validity-of-income-verification-letter/#entry6482564

Edited June 7, 2013 by Mario2008

[ubonjoe]

That well could be something that is decided at top of immigration that does not filter down to the local offices or they don't follow it like many other rules.

I wouldn't count on them allowing 6 months unless you want to take a chance of wasting $50 and then possibly having to make a hurried trip to the embassy.

I will be getting mine just before I plan on doing my extension. Bought my tickets in March for trip next month.

The current outreach schedule does not work for me because the one here in Ubon was in January and extension is due in August.

[Pattaya46]

I like that: Because USA has a very strict and painful system to get these "income letters",

they ask Thailand to make its system easier for them !!!???

Why can't USA make its own system easier for American guys ?

I just made an extension today. Last week I send a copy of my 2012 taxes to my Embassy in Bangkok

and Tuesday I received my incomes confirmation letter by mail. Fast, cheap and easy

[glegolo]

I like that: Because USA has a very strict and painful system to get these "income letters",

they ask Thailand to make its system easier for them !!!???

Why can't USA make its own system easier for American guys ?

I just made an extension today. Last week I send a copy of my 2012 taxes to my Embassy in Bangkok

and Tuesday I received my incomes confirmation letter by mail. Fast, cheap and easy

How much more easier do you want? As it is now you have the time of your life if you compare to normal other countries. You sit down, write up what you CLAIM to earn, hand it over to your embassy, prays the lord and swear a little bit to the very same, and ops there you go.

People from other countries at least, has to present an original income document from the homecountry proving to their embassies what they earn,

So again, how much more easier do you want.??? Maybe you like to NOT even show up to the embassy or to the immigration... I think that you guys shall be happy that you can get away with what you are doing really...

Glegolo

[Mrjlh]

The US Embassy does make it easy with the Outreach program visiting different cities.. As long as it is 6 months then all is well. The 15 day screws up the usefulness of it all.

Also, a little tip to use if you are ever asked to "prove": income. If you file income tax each year you have your proof. You don't lie to the corrupt IRS do you? So have it with you when you go. I found that to be very reliable method at the Embassy.

[Pattaya46]

So again, how much more easier do you want.???

Maybe you like to NOT even show up to the embassy

From the previous posts I understand that to get this letter Americans have to go to their Embassy (or one local but temporary office).

Don't you think that in 2013 this letter could be ordered by Internet ? or by postal mail ?

Do you really think it's useful/easy to have to go to Bangkok just for a letter.

Do you realize some people in Thailand live 700 or 800 km from Bangkok ?

So no: Having to go to Bangkok is all but an easy way.

[Mario2008]

For Americans it is a sworn statement, thus you need to take an oath and sign it in front of the consular officer, making giving false information a federal offence.

[OJAS]

Looks like the US Embassy made a stink of the 15 day window policy and Thai Immiration has changed it to 6 months per the Warden communique below.

rokit

Edited:

original email deleted for privacy reasons

See message by ACS here: http://www.thaivisa....r/#entry6482564

Edited by mario2008

Does a downloadable e-copy of the 29 May revision signed by the Deputy Commissioner of Immigration exist anywhere? This might be a useful document for retirees with Embassy POI letters more than 15 days old to include in their "just in case" bumper-bundle of supporting information if their next annual extension of stay application is due over the next few months.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Mario2008

[Rdrokit]

Unfortunately I do not have a copy as the one the Warden said was attached to my email was not the letter. I have emailed the Warden to send me a copy. If and when he does I will post it.

[tropo]

If anyone visits the Immigration Officed in Jomtien in the near future please confirm if this policy has taken affect here or if it will in the near future. I am due to extend my retirement visa in September and I was intending to get my letter at the outreach visit to Pattaya on 5 June. There is no sense in wasting my money on this when I may have to repeat it in September.

Thank you

I was told a few days ago at the Jomtien office that I can renew my retirement extension up to a month before. If there's a 15 day limit on the income letter validity, that would mean the letter could be valid even 6 weeks before my renewal date if I renew a month early.

Edited June 6, 2013 by tropo

[Mario2008]

Closed, as there is now a topic with a formal release by the ACS here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/644827-immigration-extends-validity-of-income-verification-letter