Surrounded By "enemy" Nationals On A Baht Bus; Confused As To Proper Etiquette

[petercool]

Jingthing, missing an OP's point and going off on a tangent to make some non related point in an aggressive way seems to be the norm here.I feel for you.

[Yme]

"I know many people would feel OK to say I'm American to these guys and would call me paranoid."

A poorly educated drama queen sounds more like it. Obviously you have very little knowledge of Iranian people, while to spout US Government foreign relations policy - an abject failure over the last 100 years - is simply laughable.

Shame on you for being so bigoted, prejudiced, and racist

[Jingthing]

"I know many people would feel OK to say I'm American to these guys and would call me paranoid."

A poorly educated drama queen sounds more like it. Obviously you have very little knowledge of Iranian people, while to spout US Government foreign relations policy - an abject failure over the last 100 years - is simply laughable.

Shame on you for being so bigoted, prejudiced, and racist

Perhaps you have a reading comprehension deficit. Not once did I say I agree with all U.S. government policy for the last 100 years. For example I was totally against the Iraq adventure which ironically greatly strengthened Iran. I do agree with the more recent measures against the Iranian regime, the economic sanctions, the efforts to stop their nuclear weapons program, and I wish more could be done to help the elements within Iran that might have hope of toppling their toxic theocratic dictatorship. BTW, the U.S. has wide support for these measures in Europe. I am well aware of the history of U.S. relations with Iran and well aware of why the American puppet Shah was so widely hated. You know NOTHING about my personal history knowing actual Iranian people. You just make stupid assumptions based on what? Based on YOUR prejudices I guess and you have the nerve to name call me a bigot? Calling me a queen, is that some kind of anti-gay thing? Degrades YOU, not me.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[bendywire]

I have to ask if the OP is for real because if he is he has severe paranoid issues. If you want to know why you feel like this around anyone that looks slightly Iranian, Palestinian or even Islamic then you have to ask your paranoid government to stop bombing the shit out of the " so called enemy" so you can travel in peace. If you can't travel without the fear of being recognized as an American or you have to lie about it and say you're Canadian then it is time to go back to the bubble that is the USA and pretend that the world loves you.

[Jingthing]

I have to ask if the OP is for real because if he is he has severe paranoid issues. If you want to know why you feel like this around anyone that looks slightly Iranian, Palestinian or even Islamic then you have to ask your paranoid government to stop bombing the shit out of the " so called enemy" so you can travel in peace. If you can't travel without the fear of being recognized as an American or you have to lie about it and say you're Canadian then it is time to go back to the bubble that is the USA and pretend that the world loves you.

You fail to read the thread. Have you read my reviews of local Iranian restaurants? I think Islamic people are HOT. I just wasn't comfortable being surrounded like that by unpredictable drunken Iranians crammed on a baht bus. Not the same thing at all as you are insinuating.

[David48]

Hummm ... JT, since you are 'surrounded-by-enemy-nationals', I'll do my best to hope.

We shall fight them on Beach Road

We shall fight them on Walking Street

We shall fight them in the Bars and in the Sois

We shall never surrender.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq_Rsb8KoKo

Oh, what would I have done?

If I felt seriously in danger, I would have

sacrificed my 10 Baht and paid the driver

and caught the next Baht Bus.

Simple solutions for difficult and tense situations.

.

[Tywais]

1/ i thought Iranians are not supposed to drink alcohol by their religion ? Can we (or they) drink it in their own country ?

It is illegal in Iran itself but isn't stopping them even with the severe penalties - see the link in my post #105

[Payboy]

The baht bus is merely the SETTING for this topic. Not the topic.

Like Vietnam was just the setting for Rambo I & II.

[Jingthing]

I clearly didn't feel seriously in danger. I did feel UNCOMFORTABLE. And there was no way I was comfortable announcing my nationality on that bus as I did feel doing so might make the situation dangerous. But I didn't feel like there was a compelling need to get off the bus either.

I understand some westerners can sincerely talk about how you hate western policies towards the modern Iranian regime. I can't because I don't feel that way and I am not a very good liar, sorry!

You're assuming all the Iranians here are anti-regime.

Nope. Not all are.

Just because they are drunk and with bar workers doesn't prove they are anti-regime either.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[joepublic]

With the current Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, playing the Canadian card would hardly help - that guy holds some of the most incredible right wing, pro Zionist views that would make even AIPAC blush.

[Jingthing]

With the current Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, playing the Canadian card would hardly help - that guy holds some of the most incredible right wing, pro Zionist views that would make even AIPAC blush.

Thanks. This has already been pointed out. Not only is the Canadian card passe and too obvious, it doesn't mean what it once was. I think it would be more accurate to say pro right wing Zionist though if that's what you meant as there are different factions of Zionists including progressive ones.

[glegolo]

I always tell people I'm from Canada. Works pretty well most of them time. Sometimes they'll get suspicious and start asking me questions about Canada I don't know. Or they'll tell my my accent is definitely not Canadian.

There is not at all many nonamericans or non canadians that can tell american english from canadian english, forget that not a fat chance in hell you can easily trick people with that.....

But it must fell akward not to be able to tell the world that you are an american? I wonder why people have anger towards americans? Why they love canadians and have anger towards you?

Maybe something that you can bring home to the US and tell people there that warfare is not always a good thing..

Glegolo

[Jingthing]

...

Maybe something that you can bring home to the US and tell people there that warfare is not always a good thing..

Glegolo

No its not always a good thing. But it is sometimes necessary thing. It's tricky to know which is which.

[somtampet]

I've spent some time in Iran. They are possibly the most hospitable people on earth.

Nobody said they weren't. However, politics and the soft war is real. You might want to ask the American hikers who accidentally crossed the Turkey-Iran border.

I did fail to mention one detail from the reported experience. There was a British man who boarded the back of the baht bus and he DID participate in the baht bus drunken party and engaged with the group. He IMMEDIATELY starting talking about the politics of the situation saying he HATED politics. They liked that. I don't hate politics. I would be thrilled if my government could find a way to help topple the horrible Iranian regime (in my opinion). Should I have lied and put on an act like the Brit? Believe it or not, they WANTED to engage but I doubt they wanted to hear what I happen to think. Not all Americans agree with the American government's anti-Iranian regime bias, but I do. Being in Pattaya doesn't change what's going on in the world. A hint of that might be the Iranian Bangkok terror bombers who partied in South Pattaya with booze and bar girls just before doing their botched mission.

Why do u think the brit put on an act,he said he hates ploitics,actualy,so do i and i am english

[rubberduck]

I know a few refugee Iranians in my country. One is a poet/writer and another one makes extraordinairy detailed wood marquetry, two of Irans many classical art forms, very impressing. Sincere, intelligent and very hospitable guys.

To see in every Iranian an 'enemy' is xenofobic, arrogant, dumb and showcases not only a total lack of affinity with worlds culturehistory, but also basically an antisocial and self-preoccupied mind brainwashed by heavily biased and government-controlled media.

Keep your dignity and stand above it.

[Jingthing]

I've spent some time in Iran. They are possibly the most hospitable people on earth.

Nobody said they weren't. However, politics and the soft war is real. You might want to ask the American hikers who accidentally crossed the Turkey-Iran border.

I did fail to mention one detail from the reported experience. There was a British man who boarded the back of the baht bus and he DID participate in the baht bus drunken party and engaged with the group. He IMMEDIATELY starting talking about the politics of the situation saying he HATED politics. They liked that. I don't hate politics. I would be thrilled if my government could find a way to help topple the horrible Iranian regime (in my opinion). Should I have lied and put on an act like the Brit? Believe it or not, they WANTED to engage but I doubt they wanted to hear what I happen to think. Not all Americans agree with the American government's anti-Iranian regime bias, but I do. Being in Pattaya doesn't change what's going on in the world. A hint of that might be the Iranian Bangkok terror bombers who partied in South Pattaya with booze and bar girls just before doing their botched mission.

Why do u think the brit put on an act,he said he hates ploitics,actualy,so do i and i am english

I worded that awkwardly, sorry. I don't know the Brit put on an act or not. I couldn't know that. But if I said the same things he did, I would be putting on an act. I was both not willing to do that and just not up to the acting challenge. I hope this is clarified now.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I know a few refugee Iranians in my country. One is a poet/writer and another one makes extraordinairy detailed wood marquetry, two of Irans many classical art forms, very impressing. Sincere, intelligent and very hospitable guys.

To see in every Iranian an 'enemy' is xenofobic, arrogant, dumb and showcases not only a total lack of affinity with worlds culturehistory, but also basically an antisocial and self-preoccupied mind brainwashed by heavily biased and government-controlled media.

Keep your dignity and stand above it.

Agreed. I hope you weren't accusing me of seeing that in every Iranian. Because if you are, you have failed to read the thread.

[somtampet]

I've spent some time in Iran. They are possibly the most hospitable people on earth.

Nobody said they weren't. However, politics and the soft war is real. You might want to ask the American hikers who accidentally crossed the Turkey-Iran border.

I did fail to mention one detail from the reported experience. There was a British man who boarded the back of the baht bus and he DID participate in the baht bus drunken party and engaged with the group. He IMMEDIATELY starting talking about the politics of the situation saying he HATED politics. They liked that. I don't hate politics. I would be thrilled if my government could find a way to help topple the horrible Iranian regime (in my opinion). Should I have lied and put on an act like the Brit? Believe it or not, they WANTED to engage but I doubt they wanted to hear what I happen to think. Not all Americans agree with the American government's anti-Iranian regime bias, but I do. Being in Pattaya doesn't change what's going on in the world. A hint of that might be the Iranian Bangkok terror bombers who partied in South Pattaya with booze and bar girls just before doing their botched mission.

Why do u think the brit put on an act,he said he hates ploitics,actualy,so do i and i am english

I worded that awkwardly, sorry. I don't know the Brit put on an act or not. I couldn't know that. But if I said the same things he did, I would be putting on an act. I was both not willing to do that and just not up to the acting challenge. I hope this is clarified now.

Thank u for that JT

[rubberduck]

I know a few refugee Iranians in my country. One is a poet/writer and another one makes extraordinairy detailed wood marquetry, two of Irans many classical art forms, very impressing. Sincere, intelligent and very hospitable guys.

To see in every Iranian an 'enemy' is xenofobic, arrogant, dumb and showcases not only a total lack of affinity with worlds culturehistory, but also basically an antisocial and self-preoccupied mind brainwashed by heavily biased and government-controlled media.

Keep your dignity and stand above it.

Agreed. I hope you weren't accusing me of seeing that in every Iranian. Because if you are, you have failed to read the thread.

Not accusing you, more in general for those who feel challenged.

[mostcurious]

I clearly didn't feel seriously in danger. I did feel UNCOMFORTABLE. And there was no way I was comfortable announcing my nationality on that bus as I did feel doing so might make the situation dangerous. But I didn't feel like there was a compelling need to get off the bus either.

I understand some westerners can sincerely talk about how you hate western policies towards the modern Iranian regime. I can't because I don't feel that way and I am not a very good liar, sorry!

You're assuming all the Iranians here are anti-regime.

Nope. Not all are.

Just because they are drunk and with bar workers doesn't prove they are anti-regime either.

Hello there. I have 2 questions.

1. Were these Iranians pointing at you with outstretched arms ?

2. When they laughed were they making eye contact with you then immediately with one another ?

If the answer is yes, you would have every right to feel uncomfortable.

[blaze]

First- had you been on a baht bus with a bunch of drunken canadians you MIGHT, as an American, have had a problem. Had they heard you proclaiming yourself to be a Canadian (which to your credit you declined to do), you probably WOULD have had a problem. (Neither of which makes me as a canadian very proud- though I do sympathize with the second). (note that l said "MIGHT" and 'probably'.

Also I have met many Iranians in Thailand and only a few were Moslem- most were Zatosh. And their religion does NOT forbid drinking. (Zoroastrian).

Furthermore nobody hates the Mullahs more than those seeking from within to topple the regime- check the university rampages that go on in Qum and Tehran from time to time.

The (Orthodox) Russian and their cousins are no great friend of the Moslem. The Russian woman appeared to know something you didn't: that if these guys were all drunked up- they were likely as anti-Muslim as she may be (note all the uses of 'might' 'may' 'probably'- that's the Canadian way eh?

Bear in mind that many many Iranians have relatives living in the states- and though they don't all like the sanctions, the ones I know blame not the Americans but the Mullahs for the situation- Possibly their interest in you was that they suspected you might be an American- a savior in waiting- the liberator in the wings.

Edited June 1, 2013 by blaze

[Pops]

quote:

"Yes of course but surely they are still NATIONALIST. That is only natural. Anyway, you can make assumptions and guesses about their politics all day long, but you don't KNOW."

So being a nationalist is only natural.

Maybe for Americans, but the rest of the world usually has its own opinion and doesn't consider nationalism a natural trait.

[raro]

Jing and his Baht bus.

 

I wonder if baht bus drivers have some kind of pool or talk or forum about Jing

it's called jingthingvisa.com

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[raro]

Shiraz is actually a Persian grape variety and there Iran is still a producer of great wine.

Some Iranian explained me the conflict with the Muslim religion... Well we make the wine but are not allowed to drink alcohol. However, throwing wine (I.e. Food) away is a sin as well. And if you are caught in the middle balancing one sin against the other...

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jingthing]

So being a nationalist is only natural.

Maybe for Americans, but the rest of the world usually has its own opinion and doesn't consider nationalism a natural trait.

That just isn't true. I've found nationalism everywhere I have traveled in the world.

[StreetCowboy]

quote:

"Yes of course but surely they are still NATIONALIST. That is only natural. Anyway, you can make assumptions and guesses about their politics all day long, but you don't KNOW."

So being a nationalist is only natural.

Maybe for Americans, but the rest of the world usually has its own opinion and doesn't consider nationalism a natural trait.

Helpmagoodness! I never thought I'd find myself living in the same world as JT!

[Jingthing]

First- had you been on a baht bus with a bunch of drunken canadians you MIGHT, as an American, have had a problem. Had they heard you proclaiming yourself to be a Canadian (which to your credit you declined to do), you probably WOULD have had a problem. (Neither of which makes me as a canadian very proud- though I do sympathize with the second). (note that l said "MIGHT" and 'probably'.

Also I have met many Iranians in Thailand and only a few were Moslem- most were Zatosh. And their religion does NOT forbid drinking. (Zoroastrian).

Furthermore nobody hates the Mullahs more than those seeking from within to topple the regime- check the university rampages that go on in Qum and Tehran from time to time.

The (Orthodox) Russian and their cousins are no great friend of the Moslem. The Russian woman appeared to know something you didn't: that if these guys were all drunked up- they were likely as anti-Muslim as she may be (note all the uses of 'might' 'may' 'probably'- that's the Canadian way eh?

Huh?

Why would anyone fake being a Canadian among Canadians? That's daft.

Also you are so wrong in your assumption that just because some Iranians are seen drunk necessarily means they aren't Muslim. Most Iranians are DEFINITELY Muslim. As far as Iran, the vast majority of Iranians are indeed Muslims. Nothing wrong with that, just the facts. According to Wiki, 90 to 95 percent of Iranians are Shia Muslims.

BTW, many or even most American Jews love to eat pork. They're still Jewish. There is identity and then there is following all the rules. Not the same.

http://www.baconjew.com/

Edited June 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[Gsxrnz]

JT - I'm going to put a bit of a twist on your post. I've had a similar situation in a small bar in the middle of the afternoon, just popped in to have a quick beer and sit under a fan to cool off. I hadn't been to the bar before, but there were five blokes who were obviously regulars, obviously mates, obviously very drunk, and obviously somewhat opinionated in their group discussion. They were American.

I was sitting by myself just wanting to cool down and move on, when one of them asks me where I came from. I give them a polite smile and tell them I'm from New Zealand. Without further ado, I get lambasted very strongly for a policy that my government had back in the 80's. That policy was to prohibit the visitation to our ports of any nuclear powered warships from any country. Back then, it was regarded by America as a snub and actually ended in our two countries breaking off military ties for a while.

One of these guys remembered the nuclear thing (which is surprising because 80% of Americans I've met aren't sure which state NZ is in) and said some very unsavoury things about me, NZ'ers and Australians in general, the western allies as a whole, and any country that didn't have the balls to be able to stand up for itself blah blah blah. They got very aggressive and very insulting, and they waved the "we saved your asses in WWI and WWII" card. They spent 10 minutes basically telling me that America was the best country in the world and that every other country were cowards and should be thanking God that America was there to defend them.

During the 10 minutes it took me to down the beer and pay for it, I had only said "Hi I'm from NZ", and "check-bin". As I was paying and leaving, the insults continued, to the point where I was called a chicken shit coward for not daring to argue with them and that I would be thanking them when "they" come and save my dipsh*t country from the commies.

They were all in their late 60's, I suspect Vietnam Vets judging from some of the comments. I was scared, but more than that, the confrontation has since skewed my view of America....probably unjustifiably. Interestingly enough, they didn't say one thing that was actually good about America other than its military strength. I also felt that no matter what country I said I was from, something similar would have happened. They were just looking for an argument with somebody - probably because they'd all been agreeing with themselves all day as they got drunk.

I know its not a fair comparison to your baht bus incident, mainly because they were getting on a bit in years and I could have easily outpaced them if they became physically threatening (I'm a runner not a fighter). But it does go to show that alcohol amongst friends of any common ethnicity can and does bring out the tribal instincts and for whatever reason, can lead to any outsider being perceived as a threat. Not a physical threat, but a threat to the beliefs and ideologies of the group. I think you were correct to stay mute - not for the political reasons you mention, but simply because they were friends of the same ethnicity, were drunk, and could potentially have been violent.

[blaze]

to your first statement JT, perhaps to impress the lone French girl in the crowd of hockey players?

(Me too, me too- I'm a canut.)

Here is an interesting quote from a chatboard- of course the numbers are vastly inflated-

"90% of people believing in zoroastrian but they are muslims by name and they can
not convert to other religion because of islam.a muslim can not be converted to
other religions and if some one be brave enough to do so must be executed.this
is islam rule.they not even free to chose their religion ,because your father
was muslim by force you must be muslim as well,that's it.can you tell me what's
the meaning ,when 60 million people in iran celebrating the last wednesday of
the year and they making fire every where or why their new year is not same as
muslims?! Why 60 -70 million persian celebrating their new year in zoroastrian
way.
That means something ,isn't it?

But the opposition in Iran- which if campus deaths tell us anything, is thriving- is not so much opposed to Islam as opposed to the Mullahs- the specific Mullahs that pull President A's strings. They are, in short as for regime change as the neo-cons still lurking around the White House are.

But to get back to your original post- your uncertainty about being among 'the enemy'- If you were a Serb and found yourself on a bus load of Bosnian Moslems- even sober- yeah- best to play any card you have- including the Cdn one. But my point is that there is so much hostility within Iran to the regime that the enemies of the regime are often regarded very favorably among the young(er) progressive types- in my limited experience, that can't be said for many Middle Eastern Countries- but it can be said about Iran- that is not the monolith that the regime with it's 'encouraged mass demonstrations of support would have us think that it is-

Next time you meet some Iranians- politely ask, "Zatosh?"

Watch the response. (just your luck you run into some hard heads from the INternal Security dep't- so maybe don't do that if they are in a group).

Edited June 1, 2013 by blaze

[HOOD Robin]

It seems to me that you missed an opportunity for dialog and possible friendship. All of the Iranians I've met and interacted with personally could give lessons in manners, culture, and civility to your countrymen and mine, the Americans. They're fine people, by and large, just as we are, and someday this ridiculous nationalistic BS that has come between us, will be consigned to its proper place, the 'dustbin of history.'

Americans who pose as Canadians are moral cowards.

I'm going to experience good manners from a large crowd of aggressive, rowdy DRUNK people? Sure thing, mate.

I never said one thing to diss ALL Iranian people. The repetitive insinuations about how "fine" Iranians are, suggesting the purpose of this thread is general Iranian bashing which it is NOT, is getting ridiculous. I am talking about a crowd of drunk people. Might be fine when sober but they were unpredictable when drunk.

Moral cowards, huh? My granny had blonde hair/blue eyes as a young girl and could pass for white Russian and once avoided being murdered by acting like she was. I am so happy she was such a coward!

@ Frank James: are you an imbecil or what ??? i really would like to see YOU standing on the back of that songtaew loaded with a wild bunch of DRUNK Iranians ! i really would like have seen if you should have started a "dialog" with them... i rather think that your pants would have been loaded with... SHIT !