Refusal Of Entry Clearence Child 8 Years Old

[rin0000]

hi their, need help please. im apply a visa for my son but we've got refuse as im leave him so long 6-7years but i send money home every month and go back every year, i have all the document but does not cover between 2006-2010 as it long time ago and i dont have the phone bill between these year....and all monies spended in thailand for my son its was no receipt as its all cash over there in the village!! which it i cant proof thats the money been spend on him??

any advice please will help alot

what is the best way i am appeal??? as ive got 28days for it

thank you.

[rin0000]

will it posible to get advice from solicitor?? by any chance how much will it cost ??

[7by7]

What type of entry clearance?

What country?

Why was it refused?

[theoldgit]

You need to give some more details, what country are you referring to, what is your nationality, what nationality is the child, who has custody of the child?

[7by7]

I see from your previous topic that this is a UK settlement visa for your son and that have been living in the UK long enough to have been naturalised as British and so hold dual Thai/British nationality.

In order to advise you further we need to know exactly what the refusal notice says.

Can you post it here, first removing all names and any other information which could identify you or your son.

[rin0000]

and i gain citizenship by my right(married and live in uk for 7 years)

please help thank you.

[rin0000]

I see from your previous topic that this is a UK settlement visa for your son and that have been living in the UK long enough to have been naturalised as British and so hold dual Thai/British nationality.

In order to advise you further we need to know exactly what the refusal notice says.

Can you post it here, first removing all names and any other information which could identify you or your son.

hi 7by7 i'll try to post it on here thank you.

[rin0000]

and i gain citizenship by my right(married and live in uk for 7 years)

please help thank you.

im Thai/English but my son hes Thai nationality which he now live in thailand.

[7by7]

If you have a scanner, then scan it into your computer and then click on 'More Reply Options' at the bottom right of the reply box.

Then use the 'Attach Files' option on the bottom left of the full reply box.

[rin0000]

[rin0000]

img025.jpgimg026.jpgimg027.jpg

hope you can see it thank you

[rin0000]

will i appeal or should i apply for the new visa?? any advice please....

[7by7]

It looks to me that you have definitely failed the sole responsibility test, or at least failed to show that you satisfy it.

Unless you can rectify this any appeal or new application will also fail.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I such as TonyM will see this and be able to advise soon. But as he is in Thailand and it's 1:30 am there, don't expect anything until tomorrow at the earliest.

Edited May 31, 2013 by 7by7

[wooloomooloo]

The good news is your son doesn't appear to be banned from entering the UK at present.

With the available and apparently limited evidence the ECO has had at his / her disposal has obviously given rise to the impression that you've bolstered your son's application with the show submission of little over a year's worth of contact and wire transfer evidence.

Additionally I am not satisfied one of your parents is present and settled...

I have seen some refusals but this is severe. You should seek advice from an OISC registered immigration lawyer to allow you to appraise the likelihood of a successful appeal or reapplication.

[Tony K]

The good news is your son doesn't appear to be banned from entering the UK at present.

With the available and apparently limited evidence the ECO has had at his / her disposal has obviously given rise to the impression that you've bolstered your son's application with the show submission of little over a year's worth of contact and wire transfer evidence.

Additionally I am not satisfied one of your parents is present and settled...

I have seen some refusals but this is severe. You should seek advice from an OISC registered immigration lawyer to allow you to appraise the likelihood of a successful appeal or reapplication.

You should consult an OISC Level 3 adviser as those registered at levels 1 and 2 are not allowed to give appeals advice. There is at least one Thai speaking level 3 firm.

[wooloomooloo]

There is at least one Thai speaking level 3 firm.

Not a prerequisite to speak Thai at appeal level, particularly when dealing with British Embassy.

[rin0000]

hi their,thanks for your help...but how would i know thats lawyer is on level 3??? i know stupid question right??

[DiamondKing]

hi their,thanks for your help...but how would i know thats lawyer is on level 3??? i know stupid question right??

You ASK

[thhMan]

hi their,thanks for your help...but how would i know thats lawyer is on level 3??? i know stupid question right??

You ASK

Best answer to a stupid question I have seen all year

[cup-O-coffee]

Good Luck Rin0000!

[SSSlongtime]

if its the UK appeal ,had the same problem ,you end up in court in newport ,from start to finish takes one year ,your need all the facts ,home office/british embassy bangkok will do everything to give you a hard time ,best get lawyer ,going cost ,the court case takes at least 2 hours ,they will go back into your past and your wife ,child ,where did you meet your wife ,they will ask her the same alone ,its all quite bad ,but we did win in the end ,read somewhere they are stopping appeals soon ,maybe next time get a agent in thailand to try for you ,again it all costs ,younger thai kids are easer for them at school life in the west ,my feeling best future

[Foggy Bottom]

The good news is your son doesn't appear to be banned from entering the UK at present.

With the available and apparently limited evidence the ECO has had at his / her disposal has obviously given rise to the impression that you've bolstered your son's application with the show submission of little over a year's worth of contact and wire transfer evidence.

Additionally I am not satisfied one of your parents is present and settled...

I have seen some refusals but this is severe. You should seek advice from an OISC registered immigration lawyer to allow you to appraise the likelihood of a successful appeal or reapplication.

The Notice of Entry Refusal allows appeal under Section 82(1) of the rules, which is the good news. However building the appeal will be difficult because as Rin states in her opening post, she herself believes she has left her son too long in Thailand, but do not despair - here are a few grounds for appeal but you need to use them collectively to build the case.

European Convention on Human Rights and UK Human Rights Act 1998 are broadly identical - Article 8 (Right to a family life) is in big trouble under the current UK government as they're trying to make it non applicable to inbound migration and as such have introduced the minimum income rules of last July. Further exclusionary legislation is under way, including prohibiting immigration cases from access to Legal Aid.

However, other clauses in those Acts can be combined with Article 8 to give a stronger, less deniable case. In particular ...

Article 2 of Schedule II of the Human Rights Act 1998 (c. 42) (Right of parents to ensure education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions)

Article 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 (c. 42) (Public authority not to act contrary to Human Rights Convention)

Article 12 of the Human Rights Act 1998 (c. 42) (Right to Marry) - in this case of the parent pre-settled before the child travels

Additionally, the United Nations Charter on the Rights of the Child contains many clauses breached by the ECO's Entry refusal. Also, the UN's Convention on Civil Rights is both broadly similar to the EU and UK Human Rights bills and is far more expansive, and again the ECO's Entry Refusal breaches many parts of it. However, whilst the UK is signatory to both of these charters/conventions, they are not part of UK law other than through portions being included in various statutes; therefore they should only be used in support of an appeal based on UK law clauses, not as a sole basis for appeal.

Good luck with it.

[Foggy Bottom]

if its the UK appeal ,had the same problem ,you end up in court in newport ,from start to finish takes one year ,your need all the facts ,home office/british embassy bangkok will do everything to give you a hard time ,best get lawyer ,going cost ,the court case takes at least 2 hours ,they will go back into your past and your wife ,child ,where did you meet your wife ,they will ask her the same alone ,its all quite bad ,but we did win in the end ,read somewhere they are stopping appeals soon ,maybe next time get a agent in thailand to try for you ,again it all costs ,younger thai kids are easer for them at school life in the west ,my feeling best future

You give the impression that entry clearance to attend the tribunal will be given to the appellant - this is not the case. The immigration rules expressly state that entry will not be granted to attend the tribunal. Only appellants already within the UK will therefore be able to attend the tribunal in person.

[rin0000]

Thank you everyone for the advise,very much appreciated.

But in my case I never claim benefit from gov..so I don't understand why it's so much problem+my husband and I were paid tax every penny we earn...!! ( if ? If my mother die where would my son go? If I can't give enough evidence so that's mean he still can not come to live with me??

[hellodolly]

I see from your previous topic that this is a UK settlement visa for your son and that have been living in the UK long enough to have been naturalised as British and so hold dual Thai/British nationality.

In order to advise you further we need to know exactly what the refusal notice says.

Can you post it here, first removing all names and any other information which could identify you or your son.

I think the UK just dispensed with appeals as they can take a long time and now they just reapply.

Seems to me I just saw this in the last month.

At any rate good luck.

[bobrussell]

The reasons for the refusal seem pretty clear. For a settlement visa to be issued it is a requirement that the UK parent has sole responsibility. The interview clearly contradicts this so unless the ECO has made an error an appeal would seem likely to fail. You have lived apart for many years and family members in Thailand have made key decisions about the child's day to day life.

The longer the period of separation the more difficult it is likely to be that the ECO will accept that the parent living abroad has sole responsibility.

Unless the ECO considers deception has been attempted there is no risk of your son being 'banned'. It does not appear that you have 'bolstered' the recent paperwork but have provided insufficient historic information going back the whole time you have lived in the UK.

'Additionally I am not satisfied one of your parents is present and settled' is another nonsensical issue questioned by Wooloomooloo. The actual phrase is 'Additionally I am not satisfied one of your parents is present and settled who has had sole-responsibility for your upbringing as required by paragraph 297 (i)(e).

The visa was refused because sole-responsibility was not shown.

Trying to use the human rights card is pretty unlikely to work as you have chosen to live separately since 2006. The child's human rights are unlikely to be covered by the EU human rights regulations as he is neither in the EU nor an EU citizen. It may be that your human rights are breached as an EU citizen but don't be kidded into thinking this is an easy one. These legal arguments can float around the courts for years!

Not claiming benefits and paying tax don't change the rules!

I don't think much of the advice in previous posts is particularly good or reliable.

What can you do? Get professional advice ASAP!

As stated above make sure you use an experienced immigration solicitor or an OISC registered immigration specialist immediately and don't take second rate advice. If the expert thinks there is reason to appeal go for it! If not get advice on how to present a new application in a favorable way.

Child settlement applications where there has been a lengthy separation period are always tricky!

[7by7]

hellodolly,

For family visits, yes w.e.f. 1/6/13 the right of appeal has been removed; but not for settlement applications; the right of appeal still exists for those; at the moment!

Rin000,

The main problem as I said before, is that you have failed to show that you have been exercising sole responsibility for a significant period in your son's life.

Although the lack of evidence supplied by you hasn't helped here, the statements of your mother when she was interviewed are the main cause of this.

This could have been overcome if there were serious and compelling circumstances why he should be granted entry to the UK; i.e. there was no one in Thailand who could take care of him. This is not the case as he is being well looked after by your mother. This, of course, could change in the future, but the ECO is concerned with the situation now, not what might happen in the future.

Forget about human rights. Article 8 of the ECHR is a qualified right, if it wasn't then there would be no UK immigration rules and all anyone would have to say was they wanted to come to the UK to be with their family. This is obviously not the case. Your son's situation does not fall under human rights legislation.

Whether you appeal or re apply; you must deal with this sole responsibility issue. That is why this application was refused and if you don't deal with it then any future application will also be refused and any appeal will fail.

To help you do that, especially if you appeal, you do need professional advice; and as someone said for an appeal only a grade 3 OISC advisor or an experienced immigration solicitor can help you there.

To find a grade 3 OISC advisor, see How to find and choose a Regulated Immigration Adviser.

Bob beat me to it; I must type faster!

Edited June 1, 2013 by 7by7

[Tony M]

There are several issued here, I think. But, firstly, Rin000 should now have the contact details for an OISC Level 3 advisor.

I have attached a very recent child settlement refusal. Does it look familiar ?

Doc2.docx

These are generic refusal formulas. It doesn't look like much thought has gone into the decision at all.

It the example posted here, the actual telephone transcripts bore very little resemblance to what the ECO quoted. I would suggest getting hold of those telephone transcripts as soon as possible to see what they say. The Embassy must provide them to you if you ask. If you don't ask, then they won't even tell you that they are available.

There is no evidence on the GV51 ( the refusal notice) that the ECO considered the best interests of the child. There is no legal requirement for him to do so, but internal guidance for visa officers requires them to do so.

That said, it does look like your evidence of sole responsibility was very much short of what was required.

[SSSlongtime]

if its the UK appeal ,had the same problem ,you end up in court in newport ,from start to finish takes one year ,your need all the facts ,home office/british embassy bangkok will do everything to give you a hard time ,best get lawyer ,going cost ,the court case takes at least 2 hours ,they will go back into your past and your wife ,child ,where did you meet your wife ,they will ask her the same alone ,its all quite bad ,but we did win in the end ,read somewhere they are stopping appeals soon ,maybe next time get a agent in thailand to try for you ,again it all costs ,younger thai kids are easer for them at school life in the west ,my feeling best future

You give the impression that entry clearance to attend the tribunal will be given to the appellant - this is not the case. The immigration rules expressly state that entry will not be granted to attend the tribunal. Only appellants already within the UK will therefore be able to attend the tribunal in person.

that is correct ,mother and myself went to tribunal ,children where in Thailand .even after gaining clearance still given run around by the british embassy ,lost our papers ,lost our documents ,did not hear from the tribunal ,after one month the children got there visa ,

[BudRight]

It's ironic that the UK government goes to such lengths to enforce child support yet intentionally keeps families apart even when paternity is evident. They really don't care about children at all; they simply wish to take whatever position is the most destructive or cruel.

Go to the press.