It’s Too Bad The Chickenhawks In Washington Have I

[the gentleman]

Dwight D. Eisenhower - I didn’t have any idea of what he had done in WWII, nor did I care. Since then, I’ve learned there was a lot more to Eisenhower, and that he had some very important things to say to America—then and now.

• “We have arrived at that point, my friends, when war does not present the possibility of victory or defeat. War would present to us only the alternative in degrees of destruction.”-- 1954

• “We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United State corporations. This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence--economic, political, even spiritual--is felt in every city, every state house, every office of the Federal government. . . . Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.”-- Farewell address, 1/17/61

• “The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without.”

• “Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea. Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well.”-- Farewell address, 1/17/61

• “There is no way in which a country can satisfy the craving for absolute security, but it can bankrupt itself morally and economically in attempting to reach that illusory goal through arms alone.”

• “If all that Americans want is security, they can go to prison. They'll have enough to eat, a bed and a roof over their heads”-- as president of Colombia University, 12/8/49

• “May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.”

In 1955 Eisenhower had his opportunity to wage preemptive war against Communist China after China invaded some islands near Taiwan (Formosa). Congress gave Eisenhower approval to attack China at the time and place of his choosing. Instead of attacking, Eisenhower sent his ambassador, John Foster Dulles, to Europe to gain support for a war; but Churchill refused, and so did NATO. If we went it alone, Pentagon officials assured Eisenhower that we could destroy China’s military capability within three weeks.

So, what did Eisenhower do? Did he bribe together a “coalition of the willing”, start handing out no-bid contracts, and mobilize the military? No, Eisenhower called together his top advisors and told them to find a diplomatic solution—which they did. There was no war.

• “A preventive war, to my mind, is an impossibility. I don’t believe there is such a thing, and frankly I wouldn’t even listen to anyone seriously that came in and talked about such a thing.”-- Press conference in 1954

• “When it comes to the matter of war, there is only one place that I would go, and that is to the Congress of the United States.” --January 1956 [A few months later, he explained]”I am not going to order any troops into anything that can be interpreted as war, until Congress directs it.”

No law says our President has to have been in the military, but such service would certainly make a better President. It would give (him) the perspective that is so lacking in the current flock of Chicken Hawks that are misusing our troops in their ill-conceived plan for world domination.

• “Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil and you're a thousand miles from the corn field.”-- From an address at Peoria, IL 9/25/56 (The same can be said for war.)

• “Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.”-- April 16, 1953

• “I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.”

[Georgie-Porgie]

Why don't you spend your time on the Internet at one of those, " Get a High School Education On-line" web-sites, instead of wasting all your time cutting and pasting articles that anyone can find by typing "<deleted> America" on the Google search engine?

I know why. Because you already know how to cut and paste, and learning how to read, write and spell would be so very difficult.

[davidm]

Those are v ery thoughful quotes.

Eisenhower was a product of his times and was right about the consequences of having a military-industrial complex. Sadly, the arms race was necessary in order to defeat soviet communism. It worked and the west won the cold war.

A new enemy is threatening the west: militant islam. The American Government is responding in a tried and tested manner. The budget for the military is going through the roof. New weapons systems are being invented.

This is a different conflict to the cold war, and different strategies and weapons are needed. You might disagree with the choices made. I think we all agree the money could make the world a better place if it was spent differently.

Unfortunately you and I are just bystanders in a (mostly) very low profile war and have virtually no influence over the decision makers. Personally, I think that's the price we have to pay to live as westerners.

[the gentleman]

Why don't you spend your time on the Internet at one of those, " Get a High School Education On-line" web-sites, instead of wasting all your time cutting and pasting articles that anyone can find by typing "<deleted> America" on the Google search engine?

I know why. Because you already know how to cut and paste, and learning how to read, write and spell would be so very difficult.

quoting, cut and paste and coming up with information/facts, is something you need to do, to win an argument Georgie boy - it seems all you do is say the same thing - you really have no idea why you support Bush, you just blindly follow the red white and the blue - you are the dummy Georgie and I think the other forum members know that too - you have never made a post or quoted anything to back up your claims - that is the most important part of a forum discussion - having the brains to put together an argument - you just keep saying your usual crap and sit on the side line - the big boys will do the posting

[Georgie-Porgie]

You keep claiming that I have never posted any "facts" to support my beliefs, but, as usual, you are full of sh1t.

All one has to do is scroll through the old posts in the Bear-Pit and one can see that I have posted a good number of newspaper articles, polls, facts about the US Military, facts about the Middle-East conflict and my own opinions.

One can also do a search on all my old posts and find even more.

They will also see that you've made this claim many times before. I've proved you wrong many times before, yet you just ignore it. You ignore the "facts". You ignore "proof".

You are nothing but another empty-headed Butterfly clone. A waste of time.

Cut and paste. Cut and paste.

Dummy.

[Georgie-Porgie]

you have never made a post or quoted anything to back up your claims

Another lie from the so-called "gentleman".

Why don't you back up your lie Dummy?If I can produce proof that I did post "facts" to back up my opinions, will you do the honorable thing? Admit that you are a liar and go away?

[the gentleman]

I looked back through your supposed posts - nothin there really Georgie - no facts to speak of, a few misguided personal beliefs - thats it.

It seems if myself or 90% of the rest of the forum, post anti war, anti bush, we are lefties/dummies etc - even the majority of your own country does not support this idiot!. For a person that doesnt live there you have a lot to say - your expat patriotism is 'dumb"

Yes Geogie I dont live there either, but on a world issue, such as Iraq and any other war for profit - I have a right to argue the "facts" and you have the right to babble on with none.

[Georgie-Porgie]

What do you call all the newspaper articles about Australian History and The Australian SAS? The article on the BBC apology for printing lies about Iraq? This doesn't include the many facts that are included in my posts to support my opinions.

QUOTE (the gentleman @ Thu 2004-02-19, 02:23:13)

you have never made a post or quoted anything to back up your claims 

Another lie from the so-called "gentleman".

Why don't you back up your lie Dummy?If I can produce proof that I did post "facts" to back up my opinions, will you do the honorable thing? Admit that you are a liar and go away?

Now, I have just proved, once again, that besides being just-plain-stupid, you are also a liar. Go away moron. You are boring.

[adjan jb]

I

Yes Geogie I dont live there either, but on a world issue, such as Iraq and any other war for profit - I have a right to argue the "facts"

I think that the most worrying issue is the environmental one.

[the gentleman]

What do you call all the newspaper articles about Australian History and The Australian SAS? The article on the BBC apology for printing lies about Iraq? This doesn't include the many facts that are included in my posts to support my opinions.

QUOTE (the gentleman @ Thu 2004-02-19, 02:23:13)

you have never made a post or quoted anything to back up your claims 

Another lie from the so-called "gentleman".

Why don't you back up your lie Dummy?If I can produce proof that I did post "facts" to back up my opinions, will you do the honorable thing? Admit that you are a liar and go away?

Now, I have just proved, once again, that besides being just-plain-stupid, you are also a liar. Go away moron. You are boring.

The educated idiot strikes again - we are taking about Iraq, wmds, Halliburton, George "terrorist' Bush - what have you posted?????, that are facts - You have nothing Georgie, only your flag, keep clinging to it! Another marine cook that has seen no action other than deep fryer catching on fire - your the liar, loser and dummy for not putting up an argument to back up your posts - I have. reread them and learn something!

[the gentleman]

By the way, have you seen the polls today - Bush 43% and 55% for Kerry

[Georgie-Porgie]

What do you call all the newspaper articles about Australian History and  The Australian SAS? The article on the BBC apology for printing lies about Iraq? This doesn't include the many facts that are included in my posts to support my opinions.

QUOTE (the gentleman @ Thu 2004-02-19, 02:23:13)

you have never made a post or quoted anything to back up your claims 

Another lie from the so-called "gentleman".

Why don't you back up your lie Dummy?If I can produce proof that I did post "facts" to back up my opinions, will you do the honorable thing? Admit that you are a liar and go away?

Now, I have just proved, once again, that besides being just-plain-stupid, you are also a liar. Go away moron. You are boring.

Do you even know the definition of FACTS you pathetic imbecile?

This is just like arguing with someone who is mentally retarded.

Halliburton fact, Georgie. BBC apology, no fact; Dummy no like apology.

[the gentleman]

still waiting for a post/facts about the USA and Halliburton being in Iraq for oil..

You have nothing Georgie - your a middle aged idiot, hoaring in Bangkok and trying to find work in Asia so you can be around young hookers, that stroke your fat ego - If you like your Country so much, go back and rally. Why the rest of the world knows why you went to Iraq, you are to busy hoaring or looking for a wage to be bothered finding out what is the real reasons - clock in sh!t head and pay your rent on your one bedroom condo... I can hear the landlord coming now.

[adjan jb]

Can bird flu spread to chickenhawks ?

[Georgie-Porgie]

All that, and you're still a Dummy.

the gentleman Posted on Thu 2004-02-19, 06:32:05

  still waiting for a post/facts about the USA and Halliburton being in Iraq for oil..

I don't think that we are in Iraq for oil. Why would I post "facts" about it? By the way, you don't get to choose what I post facts about, I do.

Sheeeesh....What a moron!!!!!!!!!

[the gentleman]

wipe your chin Georgie, you should be a politician!

[the gentleman]

Chickenhawk n. A person enthusiastic about war, provided someone else fights it; particularly when that enthusiasm is undimmed by personal experience with war; most emphatically when that lack of experience came in spite of ample opportunity in that person’s youth.

sounds like someone in this forum

[Georgie-Porgie]

Wrong again, Dummy!

[bigwetpatch]

what a pair of prats these 2 are. I would suggest that you both open your own topic and leave sensible discussion to others.

"SAS...liar....you are ....no you are moron...I hate you....you are mean.... proof..blah blah blah blah blah....

God god!!!

so i notice you have an enforced ban. Is this like a 10 minute sin bin. Though in this case 5 days.

Presumably I can write here with impunity. and not expect a barage of abuse..well not for a few days.

sorry for the post..its not exactly a political discussion is it?