Injured Man Dies After Bangkok Cop Tells Ambulance To Move

[Unkomoncents]

Good thing there's video evidence so that this can't be denied. To protect, and serve (their own interests). This is ultimately why I left Thailand. Beautiful country but you can't raise a family in a place where you can't expect the police to put the safety of others first, especially when the proper course of action is so obvious. RIP to the injured and now deceased man.

I can appreciate your line of reasoning.

I on the other hand appreciate that here in Thailand a person learns to take more responsibility for their well being and try to instill it in their family. Rather than a government say we will take care of you don't bother to look both ways we have law's.

This is not a knock against the Nannie countries just a choice I prefer.

In the Nannie countries you learn a certain amount of self reliance just as in Thailand you learn a certain amount of reliance. It is a black and white situation with a lot of gray area.

I have a friend who is moving back home because he wants his children to have a better education.

Yeah, the education thing is a huge part of why I moved back, but this story is indicative of the attitudes that also drove me to leave. I see your point but I don't want to play games with "learning responsibility" when my son's life could be on the line. I also disagree that Thailand inculcates anyone but Westerners with a sense of responsibility. Ancient ways of thinking regarding metaphysics are at play in Thailand, and few, if any, Thais that I've met understand responsibility in a way that makes me feel comfortable about my safety. In the nanny countries to which you refer, this kind of incident would cause people to go ballistic and the story would be in the headlines for weeks. People are trained to value human life and when they see life at risk, they leap into action to do something about it. That's where I want to live. I'm happy to know that if my son were threatened, people would rush to his rescue out of the goodness of their hearts. People where I live care about the lives of children more than they care about convenience, efficiency, etc. When the schools let out in my town, traffic grinds to a standstill so that the children can safely meet their parents and walk home. It's one of the hallmarks of the village in which I live and its something that the town advertises to attract new families. Moving back to the nanny-state US was the best choice I ever made. I hardly think that it would be the right choice for everyone who reads these forums or lives in Thailand, but for people who are educated and have families: do it now. Don't worry about what they say about 'bad economies and no jobs and blah blah blah'. If you're educated and willing to work, there are tons of jobs to be had and companies are hiring everywhere. A friend of mine moved back two years before me, as he had more courage than I in the face of all the negative news about Western economies. Within a couple months he had a job, a car, and was looking at houses (which are cheaper than in Thailand because the housing market recently collapsed). I stayed another year to see how things went but then I started filing paperwork with the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of State. In two years, my wife and son will be US citizens capable of traveling all over the world visa-free. My wife has a job in the US making four times what she made in Thailand. Oh, and did I mention that now I make a Western salary again? Ironic, because in all my years in Thailand I was never able to take the really fancy vacations because even though I was pulling 60-80000 THB/month, it wasn't enough to stay in the five star resorts and wile my time away drinking expensive cocktails. Now that I've moved back to the US, my vacations to Thailand every year look set to be far more luxurious than any I could have had on a Thai salary.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Unkomoncents

[spidermike007]

Can't find it right now, but about 10 years ago, the State of Indiana passed a tough, no-nonsense "first responder law". Basically, all first responder vehicles were equipped with dash cams to record what was happening on their way to an emergency situation. Anyone who did NOT move out of the way had their license number recorded, which would result in a fine of something in the neighborhood of $5,000 and a week in jail. This came about after there was a fire in some low income apartments, and people just stood and watched, blocking the way of emergency vehicles while people burned to death. To make sure everyone in the state knew about it, the law was published in the papers, and put on television for a solid week. After that week, the Governor and head of the State Police came on television and basically told people - "You've been warned!"

News travels fast here, so something like that would be effective. The problem is the govt. has no teeth, no will, no vision, and seems unwilling to implement policies that benefit the masses. And law enforcement is some of the weakest on the planet. So, where do you start to fix things, when they are completely broken?

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[retell]

get the facts, start over a person die because of bad judgement from police officer,or is it there might be another ambulance there waiting and he just make sure they can get through (whether it is family or friend or stranger) no-one knows till the official report comes out until then can speculate ,distroustoulate , maybey impregnate , but nothing is sure except assumption

does not keep me from thinking ,is there money to be made by people die in your precinct ( as police thai)

Edited June 6, 2013 by retell

[rametindallas]

... and once again I say, never move to Thailand, or you will die.

When I first moved here I saw this guy get his chest blown open by an exploding gas container. He was bleeding out right there in front of my office. I jumped into lifeguard mode and simultaneously tried to instruct his friend on first aid while also arranging for a ride in a neighbor's truck... I swear on my life, the friend looked me in the eye and waved me off while literally a dozen other people just stood there and did absolutely nothing. No ambulance was called. Nothing was done to stop the bleeding. I eventually organized the truck and a makeshift stretcher just to see the guy check out right there in front of me.

I dont know if it's Buddhism, or a general lack of faith in infrastructure or what. But from that day I knew for sure, gawd forbid I ever find myself bleeding on the street with nothing but Thais around me.

Footnote: I didn't get a single acknowledgement for at least trying to do something .. but at least I now know for certain how I react in an emergency.

Sorry to dispute you but last week I was in a motorcycle wreck a truck driver and his wife came to my assistance as well as a Dr. from a local hospital. I wasn't bleeding out or unable to walk but these people were concerned about my well being and did help me. I guess it all depends on the Thais who are present as opposed to painting the entire country with a big brush

On the first day of my first visit to Thailand, I was crossing Sukhumvit from Nana 4 to Nana 3 when a taximocy, going against traffic, ran over me and he and his passenger went skidding into the intersection. At least a dozen well-dressed Thais came to my aid asking, in English, was I OK, did I need a doctor/ambulance, did I want them to hold the mocy driver or money from him? I have been in love with this country ever since for the kindness and concern they showed me. I think the difference between my story and the OP is that I am Farang and the other victim a poor Thai. Class distinction if strong here and I benefit greatly from my white skin.

[EyesWideOpen]

The drumbeat of bad news about Thai police just keeps beating on....

Shoot tourists, scam tourists, fleece Thai people at check points, deal drugs, and do contract killings. And now be a contributing factor in the death of a Thai man by restricting access to medical care. What is next ?

[luangtom]

I formerly ran Emergency Services stateside for a group of small communties. It covered both police and paramedics for first-response (ambulances). When staying in Thailand, I thought it would be workable to help initiate and help organize such services in rural Thailand. It was a total failure and disaster. Those that did volunteer did so for the US-made uniforms and equipment issue. Period. Not one completed the basic-course or was there any commitment to do so. I thought that I had a grasp of the language and of the psyche of the villagers. NOT. I will never attempt to assume that the Thai citizen thinks at all like a small-town citizen elsewhere in the world. No grasp of life-saving, no grasp of human-understanding and no attempt to change and learn either. I guess I am only here for an occasional binge-drinking bout and free cigarettes and free meals. I will never waste my time and emotion trying again. I will never stay here full-time, either, as I have health-issues and this is certainly not the place to have to deal with them in a rural-setting.

Edited June 6, 2013 by luangtom

[PoodMaiDai]

Good thing there's video evidence so that this can't be denied. To protect, and serve (their own interests). This is ultimately why I left Thailand. Beautiful country but you can't raise a family in a place where you can't expect the police to put the safety of others first, especially when the proper course of action is so obvious. RIP to the injured and now deceased man.

Absolute rubbish! If you are sensible and make sensible decisions regarding your family, then this is a great country to raise a family. There's obviously another reason you left Thailand, but will blame it on these kinds of things.

It happens in every country in the world, even yours mate!

Thailand is a horrible place to raise a family when ti comes to education and safety. Unkomoncents is 100% correct. Not to mention, do you really want to raise kids in such a male dominated society full of corruption and exploitation?

Even if you send your kids to "better schools," being the smartest kid in Thailand is much like being the tallest man in Japan. Both are more or less useless.

Sure, you may luck out, find a great school and your kid doesn't get sucked into Thainess or hit by a speeding drunk driving cement truck when she's 16, but odds are actually against you here.

#6 in the world for road accidents... at the very least you can say it is not a safe or smart decision to put your family on the road here.

[katana]

... and once again I say, never move to Thailand, or you will die.

When I first moved here I saw this guy get his chest blown open by an exploding gas container. He was bleeding out right there in front of my office. I jumped into lifeguard mode and simultaneously tried to instruct his friend on first aid while also arranging for a ride in a neighbor's truck... I swear on my life, the friend looked me in the eye and waved me off while literally a dozen other people just stood there and did absolutely nothing. No ambulance was called. Nothing was done to stop the bleeding. I eventually organized the truck and a makeshift stretcher just to see the guy check out right there in front of me.

I dont know if it's Buddhism, or a general lack of faith in infrastructure or what. But from that day I knew for sure, gawd forbid I ever find myself bleeding on the street with nothing but Thais around me.

Footnote: I didn't get a single acknowledgement for at least trying to do something .. but at least I now know for certain how I react in an emergency.

Sorry to dispute you but last week I was in a motorcycle wreck a truck driver and his wife came to my assistance as well as a Dr. from a local hospital. I wasn't bleeding out or unable to walk but these people were concerned about my well being and did help me. I guess it all depends on the Thais who are present as opposed to painting the entire country with a big brush

I've seen 3 or so road traffic accidents in Bangkok eg motorcyclist knocked off his bike etc. In each instance, Thai passers-by immediately came to help and tend to the victim.

[webfact]

UPDATE:
Deputy chief rejects rescue worker's viral video
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Metropolitan Police deputy chief Pol Maj-General Worasak Noppasittiporn said yesterday he wants to file charges against a rescue worker who posted a video on Facebook that alleges Min Buri traffic police told a medic team to clear out as they tried to revive a victim of a fatal motorcycle wreck.

Taking to his own Facebook page, Worasak said the male victim was dead before the rescue team arrived.

The viral video clip that was posted on the rescue team's Facebook page also used fake pictures and inappropriate language, the deputy chief said.

According to police evidence and photos from other eyewitnesses, traffic police had asked the ambulance to move because it was blocking traffic. The request caused the medic to be upset and scold the officers. The video clip and comments were posted in retaliation, Worasak said.

Worasak said he has ordered officials to gather more evidence, posts and pictures and to proceed with legal action against the suspect for obstructing traffic, violating police instructions, insulting an officer and posting false and tarnishing comments online.

He also offered condolences to the family of the motorcyclist who died from a head injury after crashing his bike into a power pole on Rom Klao Rd.


-- The Nation 2013-06-07

[Payboy]

I don't believe this. As if.

It can be seen there's little respect for ambulances, and traffic doesn't give way here.

This is partly the fault of ambulance drivers who often use their sirens as a ploy to get through traffic even though they may not be going to/from the scene of an emergency or carrying a critically ill patient.

How would it be possible to know if ambulance drivers are "using their sirens as a ploy to get through traffic even though they may not be going to/from the scene of an emergency or carrying a critically ill patient.?"

I've noticed the sincere ones usually have a sticker of themselves rescuing a pretty girl, or of a rescued girl wearing her lost panties that they kindly located for her.

[smutcakes]

There needs to be more awareness of how important it is to move out of the way of an ambulance when its sirens are on. The ambulance should always have priority when moving through traffic. If there was more awareness of this, I doubt the police officer in question would have been so stupid and heartless.

It's amazing how inconsiderate people can be for some, but how respectful they can be for others.

I personally have never seen any drivers yield to a Thai ambulance.

So much for Thais Love Thais...

I drove from Pattaya to BKK yesterday morning. An ambulance came up a dozen or so cars back in my rear view, and although some cars were slow to move, generally most did. In Thailand where most drivers don't leave much of a gap between each other, it often takes a little bit more time to find a gap in the next lane safely, especially when its raining so not always possible for all cars to get out of the way immediately.

Some drivers are more competent than others, but it does not mean the others are not safe to drive- just they recognize their abilities and drive slower or take more care when doing maneuvers. Some drivers can see and assess and take action on something very quickly, others take a bit longer- but for some people to say Thais don't move for ambulances is complete rubbish.

[Thaddeus]

UPDATE:

Worasak said he has ordered officials to gather more evidence, posts and pictures and to proceed with legal action against the suspect for obstructing traffic, violating police instructions, insulting an officer and posting false and tarnishing comments online.

-- The Nation 2013-06-07

Here's a tip for you Khun Worasak......... get your own house in order first, so that incidents like this don't happen again, do you know why most of the population think that the Thai police are nothing more than a bunch of lazy, power crazed, money grabbing louts? ...... because that's all they are.

[jimbeam1]

... and once again I say, never move to Thailand, or you will die.

When I first moved here I saw this guy get his chest blown open by an exploding gas container. He was bleeding out right there in front of my office. I jumped into lifeguard mode and simultaneously tried to instruct his friend on first aid while also arranging for a ride in a neighbor's truck... I swear on my life, the friend looked me in the eye and waved me off while literally a dozen other people just stood there and did absolutely nothing. No ambulance was called. Nothing was done to stop the bleeding. I eventually organized the truck and a makeshift stretcher just to see the guy check out right there in front of me.

I dont know if it's Buddhism, or a general lack of faith in infrastructure or what. But from that day I knew for sure, gawd forbid I ever find myself bleeding on the street with nothing but Thais around me.

Footnote: I didn't get a single acknowledgement for at least trying to do something .. but at least I now know for certain how I react in an emergency.

The police do the same. Countless times I've seen people laid in the road dying, arms and legs bent backwards with blood spewing and the police stood there directing traffic around them.

Better than over them. lol Sorry RIP the dead.

jb1

Edited June 7, 2013 by jimbeam1

[cloghead]

There needs to be more awareness of how important it is to move out of the way of an ambulance when its sirens are on.

Is there a Thai word for "awareness"?

NO! Nor are there words for "accountability", "consequence", "responsibility" and others that are totally incomprehensible to most every Thai...

Edited June 7, 2013 by cloghead

[Credo]

It's most disheartening to see this kind of situation. I would rather have paramedics determine if someone is dead and can't be revived than have the police make that determination.

It sounds like the police chief needs to set up some rules for who is in charge of an accident site where there is an injured, dead or dying person.

[aechzen]

its thailand, ! where the traffic jam is more important as a poor human life !!!

[finnomick]

I'd like to know what deputy chief police Maj - general Worasak Noppasittiporn is going to actually do about this policeman. I'd also like to know why the government just lets this carry on right under their noses. Of course, being Thailand we probably will never know and we certainly won't see any changes -- no laws being enforced, no new non - corrupt police force etc., etc.

I wholeheartedly agree with about 95% of the sentiment expressed here, the other 5% being drivel from non-sensical jerks who post either to wind up posters with genuine constructive comment or who seem to be able to post directly from where the sun don't shine. Whatever. It is an unfortunate state of affairs that Thailand, the land of the disposable, treats human life the same way -- disposable.

[beowolf2012]

Hi.

No respect to ambulance at all then that have been sayed. Many time i see ambulances have to stop and not have direct driving. other cars not stop for ambulance there have blue blink on and also the horn if it had been in my home country THE CAR DRIVER THERE NOT STOP FOR AMBULANCE WITH BLUE BLINK AND HORN THEY WILL ALWAYS LOSE THE DRIVING LICENSE...

Thai people there have driving license WHY DO YOU THINK THAI DRIVING LICENSE NOT ALLOWED IN EUROPE???? READ THE TEXT AGAIN......................................

Edited June 7, 2013 by Scott
font, etc.

[gemini81]

... and once again I say, never move to Thailand, or you will die.

When I first moved here I saw this guy get his chest blown open by an exploding gas container. He was bleeding out right there in front of my office. I jumped into lifeguard mode and simultaneously tried to instruct his friend on first aid while also arranging for a ride in a neighbor's truck... I swear on my life, the friend looked me in the eye and waved me off while literally a dozen other people just stood there and did absolutely nothing. No ambulance was called. Nothing was done to stop the bleeding. I eventually organized the truck and a makeshift stretcher just to see the guy check out right there in front of me.

I dont know if it's Buddhism, or a general lack of faith in infrastructure or what. But from that day I knew for sure, gawd forbid I ever find myself bleeding on the street with nothing but Thais around me.

Footnote: I didn't get a single acknowledgement for at least trying to do something .. but at least I now know for certain how I react in an emergency.

The police do the same. Countless times I've seen people laid in the road dying, arms and legs bent backwards with blood spewing and the police stood there directing traffic around them.

Better than over them. lol Sorry RIP the dead.

jb1

nice one, a bit warped!

[chooka]

So who made the call that he was deceased before paramedics arrived, the police? I don't know about Thai police but in Melbourne, Australia we are not qualified to do so and would be in a pile of trouble if we did so. When I attend a fatal and can clearly see that a person is deceased all we are permitted to say is the person is they are unconscious and no pulse. The victim is still classified as critical until ambos/paramedics have attended and determined his status as otherwise. The ambo's are definitely not to be obstructed in anyway and have authority over Police in such an incident. There is understanding between the emergency services (police/fire/ambos) and all have a very clear understanding of each others protocols and procedures as there are constant exercises to enforce this.

It is a whole different world in Thailand. Personally I think this Maj-General Worasak Noppasittiporn is trying to save face and cover up the incompetence of his staff by going after the paramedic who was only trying to do his job to the best of his ability.

Edited June 7, 2013 by chooka

[canman]

So who made the call that he was deceased before paramedics arrived, the police? I don't know about Thai police but in Melbourne, Australia we are not qualified to do so and would be in a pile of trouble if we did so. When I attend a fatal and can clearly see that a person is deceased all we are permitted to say is the person is they are unconscious and no pulse. The victim is still classified as critical until ambos/paramedics have attended and determined his status as otherwise. The ambo's are definitely not to be obstructed in anyway and have authority over Police in such an incident. There is understanding between the emergency services (police/fire/ambos) and all have a very clear understanding of each others protocols and procedures as there are constant exercises to enforce this.

It is a whole different world in Thailand. Personally I think this Maj-General Worasak Noppasittiporn is trying to save face and cover up the incompetence of his staff by going after the paramedic who was only trying to do his job to the best of his ability.

I think your spot on about the face saving. One western concept which Thai's of any influence seem to have imbraced is "the best defence is a good offence"

[Hunter88]

If the victim had been driving a Mercedes, he would be alive today. And, I'm not referring to air bags.

[klubex99]

Alas this is in no way an isolated incident. It happens all the time here, and this just gets attention because it gets on Facebook, and the thread starter on FB gets a load of kudos for getting lots of likes on their video. Tis a sad and sorry example of the attitude that exists in Thailand.

I have seen many road accidents here in my time, but have noticed a radical change in the way people flock to assist. They no longer do that, they flock to record it on their iphones. I am serious, I saw a horrible road accident a few months back where someone was lying in the road bleeding out with around 10 Thais around him/her, and at least 7 had their phones out recording the gruesome sight and not a single one was giving assistance to the injured.

It has really come to something when a person's life is less important than someone's facebook social status.

[EyesWideOpen]

This story is almost more bizarre than the original story. This must be the new response of the Thai police to social media such as Facebook. As more and more stories are appearing on Facebook that make the police look absurd, looks like the strategy is to attack and prosecute whoever posted the video. Guess no need to address the actual issues that the videos show....

Edited June 7, 2013 by Scott
quote edited out

[Unkomoncents]

This story is almost more bizarre than the original story. This must be the new response of the Thai police to social media such as Facebook. As more and more stories are appearing on Facebook that make the police look absurd, looks like the strategy is to attack and prosecute whoever posted the video. Guess no need to address the actual issues that the videos show....

Shooting the messenger is a classic Thai coping mechanism. Edited June 7, 2013 by Scott

[Arkady]

Looks like he will get the inactive post for a while.

The police have retaliated and are going to prosecute the medic for blocking traffic, disobeying police instructions and insulting a plod.

[britinthai]

<deleted> since when did the police have authority over ambos in a life and death situation? I have attended numerous serious incidents and accidents and we definitely can not give orders to ambo's. An ambulance attending a life threatening situation can park anywhere it bloody well likes as human life takes priority over everything. Who cares if traffic is held up if it saves a life. What the BIB should have been was diverting traffic down another route ( if possible) even if it is 1km back down the road.

I would hate to be in this coppers shoes if it was in Australia as he would be in a pile of poop and facing internal disciplinary action and lets not forget a coronial inquiry where he could be found to have contributed to the death and the civil action that may come after. If it was an Aussie ambo the copper would have been told to pull his head in and to F off.

Why O why do so many expats always quote if this was in my country; it is not.

Edited June 7, 2013 by britinthai

[chuang]

Dumbier than dumb......

[Scott]

There is understanding between the emergency services (police/fire/ambos) and all have a very clear understanding of each others protocols and procedures as there are constant exercises to enforce this.

I wonder, Chooka, if those protocols exist here in Thailand. Bangkok is getting a lot bigger and more complex than it was in days gone by and it sounds like these groups need to sit down and sort out who does what.

[chooka]

<deleted> since when did the police have authority over ambos in a life and death situation? I have attended numerous serious incidents and accidents and we definitely can not give orders to ambo's. An ambulance attending a life threatening situation can park anywhere it bloody well likes as human life takes priority over everything. Who cares if traffic is held up if it saves a life. What the BIB should have been was diverting traffic down another route ( if possible) even if it is 1km back down the road.

I would hate to be in this coppers shoes if it was in Australia as he would be in a pile of poop and facing internal disciplinary action and lets not forget a coronial inquiry where he could be found to have contributed to the death and the civil action that may come after. If it was an Aussie ambo the copper would have been told to pull his head in and to F off.

Why O why do so many expats always quote if this was in my country; it is not.

My apologies I didn't mean to upset anyone. I realise Thailand is not like other countries but does that mean they shouldn't show a certain degree of professionalism and all the emergency services work together for one goal? I love Thailand but it has it's faults. Again my deepest apologies and I request the moderators delete my comments as some have found them upsetting.