Immigration Extends Validity Of Income Verification Letter

[SurfRider]

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You missed the point - Expat Investments in other countries ARE NOT considered income by Thai Immigration. And if you don't believe that, try explaining a complicated investment portfolio to a Thai Immigration agent . . .

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[Jingthing]

Any income can be questioned. If it's something complicated and based on market fluctuations that's more difficult to easily prove than a set rental income contract and yes ... pensions. On the other hand I find it hard to believe you couldn't get something like a set ANNUITY payout accepted, at least most of the time. I think this is actually a very LIBERAL aspect of the system here. MOST countries offering retirement visas EXPLICITLY demand pensions and only pensions. Thailand most definitely DOES NOT do that! Also most countries have no bank account option at all. There are pros and cons of the Thai system. It's silly to complain about the pros. There are enough real cons to focus deserved attention to, and I'm not talking about the applicants with dodgy criminal backgrounds ...

Edited June 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[OJAS]

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You missed the point - Expat Investments in other countries ARE NOT considered income by Thai Immigration. And if you don't believe that, try explaining a complicated investment portfolio to a Thai Immigration agent . . .

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So does this mean that the rent I receive on the house I own and let out in the UK is NOT considered income by Thai Immigration? If so, this would appear to be at variance with Police Order 777/2551, which, I assume, is still extant. Against case 2.22 covering retirees, sub-paragraph (3) of the unofficial Isaan Lawyers translation merely states "Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month". However, should this translation have actually read "Proof of PENSION income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month"? If so, this would appear to be news to both me and the British Embassy who have included my rental income (as evidenced by the current tenancy agreement) in the monthly figure quoted in their latest POI letter!

Edited June 8, 2013 by OJAS

[Jingthing]

Rental income is ACCEPTABLE under the Thai law. Period. That's why I find the complaints here really, really strange. Of course if you're called on to PROVE it, you've got to PROVE it. Like any query for proof any income.

Again, income for retirement extension qualification is NOT limited to pension income. Maybe that's a rumor out there. It's wrong.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[OJAS]

Rental income is ACCEPTABLE under the Thai law. Period. That's why I find the complaints here really, really strange. Of course if you're called on to PROVE it, you've got to PROVE it. Like any query for proof any income.

Again, income for retirement extension qualification is NOT limited to pension income. Maybe that's a rumor out there. It's wrong.

Thanks for this reassurance, Jingthing, that's what I (& the British Embassy) have believed all along!

[jrtmedic]

ANY income should be demonstrable. This is not rocket science guys! ---

Thai immigration could care less about where you have Capital invested it is the demonstrable income derived from those investments which is of importance.

I am begining to understand why some appear nervous about the concept of demonstrable income.

[Jingthing]

The topic here actually is about how old income letters NEED to be.

For a short while, quite shockingly, immigration required them to be no older than 15 days.

Now six months is OK.
Thank you for the fix!

As far as proving income, NOTHING has changed.

Some embassies require proof for the letter.

Some embassies do not.

Immigration before this could demand additional documentation above the letter, and now they still can.

That doesn't mean they usually will demand such additional proof, in fact reports here over the years indicate they most usually DON'T.

On that aspect, NOTHING has changed.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[SurfRider]

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"So does this mean that the rent I receive on the house I own and let out in the UK is NOT considered income by Thai Immigration?"

You're conflating foreign investment income with foreign investments. They're two completely different animals.

If you can convince your Embassy that you have foreign investment income and Thai Immigration accepts the letter, you're good to go.

My point was that foreign investments far exceeding the 800K Thai bank deposit requirement should be allowed without having to liquidate assets, pay taxes on the revenue, import the money into Thailand, and allow it to rot in a Thai bank.

All of the speculative comments about annuities, retirement requirements in other countries, etc., is off topic in this thread.

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[jrtmedic]

SurfRider

Perhaps the immigration people know that many "investments" are not worth the paper they are written on , produce little or no income, are grossly overvalued and if sold would not produce 100,000 never mind 800,000 !

Worth a thought perhaps ?

[SurfRider]

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"Perhaps the immigration people know that many "investments" are not worth the paper they are written on"

It depends on how savvy and experienced the investor is. I've never had any investments like that and I don't know any other investors who have either.

For immigration to assume such an absurd premise would be more ridiculous than requiring Expats to report a never changing address every 90 days . . .

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Edited June 8, 2013 by SurfRider

[jrtmedic]

Guess you avoided the "sub prime" fiasco ?

[SurfRider]

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Yes - rode through it with a lot of distress and pain on paper.

Had no choice - potential tax consequences and loss of dividend income would have been catastrophic.

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[jrtmedic]

Exactly ----which is why investment portfolios --no matter how grand they may appear to be on paper cannot be regarded as evidence of income.

It is the dividend (ie income ) that counts !

[SurfRider]

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Again, my point was NOT evidence of INCOME, but ASSET VALUE! You appear to be confusing the two categories. They're completely different and not related.

If the asset value is considerably greater than the required 800K Thai bank deposit requirement - it should be allowed, in my opinion. It WAS allowed by a Thai Consulate in the States when I first applied for a Thai Visa.

Would you rather have your money rotting to nothing in a Thai bank as opposed to working for you and producing a consistent income and asset appreciation? Do you understand anything about investing???

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[Jingthing]

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Again, my point was NOT evidence of INCOME, but ASSET VALUE! You appear to be confusing the two categories. They're completely different and not related.

If the asset value is considerably greater than the required 800K Thai bank deposit requirement - it should be allowed, in my opinion. It WAS allowed by a Thai Consulate in the States when I first applied for a Thai Visa.

Would you rather have your money rotting to nothing in a Thai bank as opposed to working for you and producing a consistent income and asset appreciation? Do you understand anything about investing???

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For qualification for the O-A visa from your HOME country, yes, showing funds OUTSIDE THAILAND is indeed allowed and that's usually what people do for the O-A if qualifying on funds, not income.

I get what you're saying now. You want to be able to qualify for annual retirement extensions in Thailand based on funds outside Thailand. It's a nice wish and surely something that ain't gonna happen.

[jrtmedic]

AN ASSET is no guarantee of income and may in fact be totally unproductive.

Thai immigration is only interested in income !

[KhunBENQ]

I am not a native english speaker and a bit confused about the terms "income', "funds" and "asset".

"Only interested in income" is definitely wrong.

Of course cash in accounts available at call qualify for the visa and extension.

For application for the Non O-A visa the funds can be hold in your home country

(at least that is true for applications in Germany).

Assets in the form of property, precious metals, long term investments do no qualify.

[longball53098]

I thought this thread was about the Embassy Income Letter validation time . Seems like it has morphed into a general discussion of income types and proving it. Can we get back on topic? What I read here is two pages of talk about the types of income a person has and proving said income. The Income letter validation period subject is now a dead subject, yes?

[dighambara]

Moderator, I wish you would please bring this post back to Issan Forum. Many do not visit all the forums on TV and may miss this important information if they see it has been moved.

Thank you in advance.

Larry, An extremely valid comment. I for one never examine the specific forums as they are often in depth and far from anything useful.

However, a comment on you original information. A decade ago, when I first returned to thailand, I used the same income letter for 3 years and had no questions. At my last renewal, my income letter was 5 months old and there were no questions.

[wrsvett]

Thanks larry I found this to be very helpful.

[Jingthing]

AN ASSET is no guarantee of income and may in fact be totally unproductive.

Thai immigration is only interested in income !

That is obviously incorrect as people can qualify just by showing funds and showing NO income (or a combo of funds plus income). Financial assets such as bank accounts and investment funds are assets as well as thing like houses. In Thailand you need to show money in a Thai bank account, but I think for O-A approval when showing funds in the home country, there is more flexibility about the nature of the funds/investments.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Jingthing

[jrtmedic]

I thought this thread was simply about Income verification not O/A visas or securing an extension of stay by depositing a sum of money in a Thai Bank.

No matter what "assets" an individual has access to if these remain outside Thailand an extension of stay will not be granted unless the required level income of income is demonstrated or a chunk of the afore mentioned "asset" is transferred into a Thai bank.

[Jingthing]

I thought this thread was simply about Income verification not O/A visas or securing an extension of stay by depositing a sum of money in a Thai Bank.

No matter what "assets" an individual has access to if these remain outside Thailand an extension of stay will not be granted unless the required level income of income is demonstrated or a chunk of the afore mentioned "asset" is transferred into a Thai bank.

Now that you put it that way, that is correct, except for those using the COMBO method, mix of income and banked money in Thailand. Incorrect in the sense that you used OR when actually it is AND/OR for the combo method.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Jingthing

[SurfRider]

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"No matter what "assets" an individual has access to if these remain outside Thailand an extension of stay will not be granted unless the required level income of income is demonstrated or a chunk of the aforementioned "asset" is transferred into a Thai bank"

And one week ago you probably also believed that the validity period for an income verification letter would not be extended past 15 days.

Maybe best to be a little bit more flexible minded - nothing is cast in stone - never say never - background forces may be at work . . .
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[Jingthing]

SR, the draconian 15 day rule was clearly some kind of bizarre GLITCH. It was VERY short lived. What you are wishing for is an ENTIRELY different class of thing. In other words, not going to happen, you can bet the house on that.

[SurfRider]

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I'll bet YOUR house, not mine . . . stay tuned . . .

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[OJAS]

I thought this thread was about the Embassy Income Letter validation time . Seems like it has morphed into a general discussion of income types and proving it. Can we get back on topic? What I read here is two pages of talk about the types of income a person has and proving said income. The Income letter validation period subject is now a dead subject, yes?

Not quite, I think. We need tangible evidence that individual immigration offices are actually implementing the 6-month rule on the ground. Have any retirees out there in Thaivisa land succeeded in obtaining annual extensions since the start of the month on the basis of Embassy POI letters which were more than 15 days old? Reports one way or the other would be appreciated.

Edited June 9, 2013 by OJAS

[Jingthing]

That's of course a related issue. The 15 day rule, which was shockingly unreasonable (what were they thinking?!?) is indeed scrapped. But as usual eccentric enforcement of actual official rules at various offices remains a constant.

[SurfRider]

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Anyone needing to do a retirement extension and using an Embassy letter, would be well advised to take a copy of the Thai Language authorization letter with them to Immigration.

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Edited June 9, 2013 by SurfRider

[OJAS]

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Anyone needing to do a retirement extension and using an Embassy letter, would be well advised to take a copy of the Thai Language authorization letter with them to Immigration.

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