Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[Publicus]

Edward Joseph Snowden is and remains a citizen of the United States.

His passport was revoked.

Snowden is not a stateless person. Snowden's right to hold a U.S. Passport was revoked by its issuing authority,

No one in the government of the United States is talking of or even considering removing Edward Snowden's citizenship. There isn't any constitutional process by which the U.S. government may remove a citizen's citizenship.

There is no question whatsoever that Edward Snowden will remain a citizen of the United States unless or until he himself may abandon it in favor of the citizenship of another country. Only Edward Snowden of his own free will and conscious decision can change his citizenship, i.e., cease to become a U.S. citizen. Snowden also has lost his right to become a dual citizen of the United States and one other country (which the Department of State officially discourages anyway).

Yes I understand he is still a US citizen so not literally stateless.

Yet while in a foreign country with no passport in regards to travel he is in a sense stateless.

Albeit I am sure the US would be happy to fly him home to the USA

Yes the US will not revoke his citizenship as there is no pathway for that unless he first obtains another.

I have never heard of a case where he has lost his ability to renounce his US citizenship if someone did grant him citizenship in another country.

I doubt he would want dual citizenship at this point.

You know you may have stumbled on an excellent idea for him

If a country gave him citizenship & diplomatic security he could fly out

Now that would be a good ending for the movie

It is not like the US has not done similar

When they claimed Raymond Davis had diplomatic immunity only later to admit he was

a CIA contractor not a diplomat.

I'd bet Snowden has given it some thought by now in the transit terminal of the Moscow airport, where Putin plays with him in the ways a cat plays with a dead mouse.

Snowden would have the same problem though, or so I'd think, trying to get citizenship of a foreign country as he has trying to get travel documents from a foreign government. That is, so far there's been a lot of talk but no action, primarily from the South American leftist leaders who love their rhetoric but, faced with reality, stop short of crossing the threshold.

This is a sensitive and gravely serious matter to the US government so there probably isn't even one government of the world that wants to really seriously tick off the US on this one.

[Credo]

Snowden is simply too low on the food chain to be of any real value to anyone. Four computers can hold a lot of data, but this guy is talking about information being gathered on millions and millions of people and many countries. His computers didn't contain that much data. He also is too low to know exactly HOW the NSA is going about gathering the data. For example, if they have the EU offices bugged, then why haven't there been any bugs found, or if there have, why hasn't it been made public?

His claim to fame is that he is little more than a criminal who has stolen sensitive data. It's now been given to everyone so neither it nor he is of any value. Espionage is carried out by nearly all countries and in this case, there seems to be a little bit of honor among the thieves. Nobody is treating Snowden like anything more than the pawn that he is.

Some country will perhaps take pity on him and let him in, but his claim of persecution by the US just isn't going to cut it. I would guess about now he is finding out that the treatment by China and Russia and Ecuador is making the US look pretty nice about now.

[simple1]

It has already been queried by a senior US security official why anyone working at NSA would be able to work their without the USB ports disabled/removed on their IT devices. I used to work for a major US IT hardware and systems vendor in the banking industry and some secure work environments insisted that USB ports were not supplied. As has been said centralised/distributed network monitoring can pick up or block any unauthorised changes or attempts to change configurations, both hardware/software, as well as unauthorised data access or downloads. It was a complete IT security policy failure by NSA & their contractor/s not to have completely complied to the COBIT framework

If this was Microsoft Server, and if Snowden had admin privileges, I can think of at least ten ways he could have copied that info. That's assuming he truly knew how the system works. Let's just assume that the files were on the server as would be normal, and he was a member of "the group" that had access to the files, or more likely a member of the "admin group."

Just for giggles, lets start with a network enabled USB hub.

You would hope that NSA would be a touch more sophisticated than installing vanilla flavoured Microsoft Server whose config security flaws are well known.

Well, since Microsoft has more than 90% of the market worldwide in that area, I'd say the chances are good.

My step son works at the big Goggle server farm in The Dalles, Oregon. I got a tour. All of the servers we as clients use are Unix, but in the office where they keep track of employees and biz, it's Microsoft Server with Active Directory, and all of the desktops are Win 7 Ultimate.

What else is there, really, that works for that purpose and also for which such a high proportion of people are trained? Seriously. What else?

Pure speculation as no idea of the IT architecture, but would assume NSA would be using a mix of mainframe / supercomputers hooked up with the likes of Teradata for data warehousing & analysis, various frontends such as Thin Client, private secure Clouds, tools such as Tivoli for enterprise level systems and network management, plus god only knows what else. From the URL below also looks like they are using IBM Security Identity and Access Assurance that would manage LDAP / Active Directory

http://www.informationweek.com/government/leadership/nsa-cio-pursues-intelligence-sharing-arc/229401971

[mania]

This reporter in Washington could pass for Snowden's brother

[manarak]

Earlier I posted that Russia would be an excellent place to just vanish.

That scenario is still possible, AFAIK, Snowden is only "supposed" to be in the transit zone of Sheremetiewo Airport, I've not read a confirmation of this in many days now.

So everything is still possible - now I am waiting on the news "Snowden is not in Sheremetiewo airport anymore and Russian officials will not say where he went".

[F430murci]

Earlier I posted that Russia would be an excellent place to just vanish.

That scenario is still possible, AFAIK, Snowden is only "supposed" to be in the transit zone of Sheremetiewo Airport, I've not read a confirmation of this in many days now.

So everything is still possible - now I am waiting on the news "Snowden is not in Sheremetiewo airport anymore and Russian officials will not say where he went".

I am waiting for the Russian report that Snowden freaked out, jumped out of a window and run in front of a moving car on the tarmac of the air port, but they have no idea how he can those burn marks on his testicles. . . . Putin maintains that no informaiton was even given to Russia and that Snowden did not have any lap tops when he arrived to Russia.

[chuckd]

Nobody on this forum has any idea where Snowden really is. Lots of speculation but NO FACTS.

[SinglePot]

oh yes we do.

He's in the sh**.

[NeverSure]

If this was Microsoft Server, and if Snowden had admin privileges, I can think of at least ten ways he could have copied that info. That's assuming he truly knew how the system works. Let's just assume that the files were on the server as would be normal, and he was a member of "the group" that had access to the files, or more likely a member of the "admin group."

Just for giggles, lets start with a network enabled USB hub.

You would hope that NSA would be a touch more sophisticated than installing vanilla flavoured Microsoft Server whose config security flaws are well known.

Well, since Microsoft has more than 90% of the market worldwide in that area, I'd say the chances are good.

My step son works at the big Goggle server farm in The Dalles, Oregon. I got a tour. All of the servers we as clients use are Unix, but in the office where they keep track of employees and biz, it's Microsoft Server with Active Directory, and all of the desktops are Win 7 Ultimate.

What else is there, really, that works for that purpose and also for which such a high proportion of people are trained? Seriously. What else?

Pure speculation as no idea of the IT architecture, but would assume NSA would be using a mix of mainframe / supercomputers hooked up with the likes of Teradata for data warehousing & analysis, various frontends such as Thin Client, private secure Clouds, tools such as Tivoli for enterprise level systems and network management, plus god only knows what else. From the URL below also looks like they are using IBM Security Identity and Access Assurance that would manage LDAP / Active Directory

http://www.informationweek.com/government/leadership/nsa-cio-pursues-intelligence-sharing-arc/229401971

Yes, but somehow apparently Snowden was able to walk out with the data on pen drives.

[mania]

Snowden is more distraction than traitor

So as to not fall into that trap and since it is Independence Day (yes, I am sadly working), let's detail what we now know the US government does because of Snowden and others:

• Keeps a record of every cell phone call made.
• Keeps a record of all emails sent.
• Takes pictures of all the letters mailed in the US.
• Uses drones for domestic surveillance.
• Reserves the right to detain people (including Americans) indefinitely without trial.
• Can search homes without telling people they were there.

• Can still carry out renditions.
• Can get copies of all of your records (from the library, bank or credit card company) without a warrant.

So to sum things up, if you become a person of interest, the government can quickly find out everyone you have ever talked to and written to; everything you have ever read and bought; and everywhere you have ever been.

If you are overseas, they reserve the right to bring you back against your will and possibly hold you forever without trial.

[lannarebirth]

Snowden is more distraction than traitor

So as to not fall into that trap and since it is Independence Day (yes, I am sadly working), let's detail what we now know the US government does because of Snowden and others:

• Keeps a record of every cell phone call made.
• Keeps a record of all emails sent.
• Takes pictures of all the letters mailed in the US.
• Uses drones for domestic surveillance.
• Reserves the right to detain people (including Americans) indefinitely without trial.
• Can search homes without telling people they were there.

• Can still carry out renditions.
• Can get copies of all of your records (from the library, bank or credit card company) without a warrant.

So to sum things up, if you become a person of interest, the government can quickly find out everyone you have ever talked to and written to; everything you have ever read and bought; and everywhere you have ever been.

If you are overseas, they reserve the right to bring you back against your will and possibly hold you forever without trial.

These older generations, taken as group, are absolutely craven and self serving. I'll my hopes lie with the younger generations.

https://soundcloud.com/madiha-1/students-question-the-nsa-at

[mania]

These older generations, taken as group, are absolutely craven and self serving. I'll my hopes lie with the younger generations.

https://soundcloud.com/madiha-1/students-question-the-nsa-at

Very Good

When replying to the NSA Recruiter

Favorite Quote: "For Language analysts you are quite imprecise with your language"

If these are student grilling them like this, perhaps your right & there is hope for the younger folks

Edited July 6, 2013 by mania

[simple1]

@neversure: Thought you may be interested in the following that I have come across. Shows that Snowden must be very technology literate to get pass all the identity management and security systems, bet some IT management bums have been severely kicked and policy/procedures have been strengthened

NSA Director Keith Alexander told the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence that Snowden fabricated digital keys that gave him access to areas way above his clearance as a low-level contractor and systems administrator.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-copied-a-lot-of-nsa-files-2013-6#ixzz2YEaMSavq

[mania]

@neversure: Thought you may be interested in the following that I have come across. Shows that Snowden must be very technology literate to get pass all the identity management and security systems, bet some IT management bums have been severely kicked and policy/procedures have been strengthened

NSA Director Keith Alexander told the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence that Snowden fabricated digital keys that gave him access to areas way above his clearance as a low-level contractor and systems administrator.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-copied-a-lot-of-nsa-files-2013-6#ixzz2YEaMSavq

I am a little leery of accepting any of these reports at this point.

They do seem to need to paint a picture of Snowden now that will further justify what

shall come.

On the one hand they first painted him as high school drop out, attention seeker,loser,slacker etc etc.

Now he is Tom Cruise from Mission Impossible?

Edited July 6, 2013 by mania

[Ulysses G.]

These older generations, taken as group, are absolutely craven and self serving. I'll my hopes lie with the younger generations.

Someone made that mistake with us baby boomers and it did not work out well.

[Scott]

Post deleted. The asylum issue is running on this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/648800-ecuador-analysing-snowden-asylum-request-fm/page-31#entry6581936

[Sing_Sling]

This reporter in Washington could pass for Snowden's brother

Though it sounds simplistic, it makes sense.

Do as I say, not do as i do . . . has never been a pristine example of virtue

Edited July 8, 2013 by Scott

[Publicus]

@neversure: Thought you may be interested in the following that I have come across. Shows that Snowden must be very technology literate to get pass all the identity management and security systems, bet some IT management bums have been severely kicked and policy/procedures have been strengthened

NSA Director Keith Alexander told the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence that Snowden fabricated digital keys that gave him access to areas way above his clearance as a low-level contractor and systems administrator.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-copied-a-lot-of-nsa-files-2013-6#ixzz2YEaMSavq

I am a little leery of accepting any of these reports at this point.

They do seem to need to paint a picture of Snowden now that will further justify what

shall come.

On the one hand they first painted him as high school drop out, attention seeker,loser,slacker etc etc.

Now he is Tom Cruise from Mission Impossible?

The reports have been consistent Snowden is a technology and computer geek. He received additional technical training for the national security job he was hired into.

It's his individual judgment and personal maturity that have been called into question, consistenty, in both the USA and in Hong Kong. His judgment going to or being in Moscow doesn't look too good either

Nor does his judgment look any better as he diddlyputzes with the left wing authoritarian and censoring anti-American regimes in South America.

There's no record of his having a stable or consistent employment history since he quit high school. In fact he's diddlyputzed to get a GED, enroll in some community college courses and do some other spotty things.

He's a geek who is personally self-destructive. All of this is clear and on the record. It's the usual suspects who want to blame the government for all of this and everything else under the sun they don't like or need to gripe about, .

[Publicus]

Europe is furious. After it calms down, action will follow

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-officials-furious-at-nsa-spying-in-brussels-and-germany-a-908614.html

Wonder why the UN has not said a word yet.

Germany, and the world, demands answers.

What they will get is a standard response from the US govt that they will look into to it. What they will really do is try and get their hands on Snowden to find out exactly what he has. They will then tell the world exactly what Snowden has told the world. Nothing more.

They won't dare say what they have done at this time because if they lie about it they can be caught out by what Snowden has and the shitteth will hit the faneth in a lot more ways.

The US won't dare say what has been happening......yet.

Isn't it a nice way to treat allies, spy on their govt. There I was thinking it was all in the name of preventing terrorism. So much for trusting their allies.

Oopsie, Turns Out The French Spy Too, And Not Just on Their Enemies

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/07/07/oopsie-turns-french-spy-too-enemies.html

All of that huffing and puffing by French President François Hollande over the recent alleged “revelations” regarding US spying looks a bit ridiculous now, after daily French newspaper Le Monde revealed that France has their own very large program of data collection.

The French program includes nearly all data transmissions (phone calls, emails, social media, etc.) and is done on the French public in France and abroad, on all data that comes “in and out of France”.

Last week in full blown outrage, Hollande grandstanded to reporters that talks on the trade pact “should be delayed at least until questions over the spying issue were resolved and confidence restored.”

Yet, France does it but without clear legal authority, “Le Monde reported that the General Directorate for External Security does the same kind of data collection as the American National Security Agency and the British GCHQ, but does so without clear legal authority.”

It is “a-legal”, “The system is run with ‘complete discretion, at the margins of legality and outside all serious control,’ the newspaper said, describing it as ‘a-legal.’” Your Facebook isn’t private from the spying French either! “[T]he French also record data from large American networks like Google and Facebook, the newspaper said.”

I always shake hands every time a see a French person to be sure the backstabber doesn't have a petite boutique knife in hand. Never turn my back to one either.

I'd suggest doing the same to people who want to express their indignation and ignorance of allies spying on allies. The French program is not a reaction to the programs, such as PRISM, enacted by our Congress either. The French and Germans too do this quite on their own.

[Publicus]

MILITARY'S TOP GENERAL: Edward Snowden's Leaks Have Undermined US Relationships

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman says NSA leaker Edward Snowden's disclosures about U.S. surveillance programs have undermined U.S. relationships with other countries and affected what he calls "the importance of trust."

Gen. Martin Dempsey told CNN's "State of the Union" in an interview broadcast Sunday that the U.S. will "work our way back. But it has set us back temporarily."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/dempsey-edward-snowdens-leaks-undermined-us-2013-7#ixzz2YSpZEnX7

[mania]

Peeping tom caught looking under a womans skirt due to someone telling her

The person who told the woman has undermined the peeping toms ability to go unnoticed & his relationship with the woman.

Hang the person who told the woman or castrate the peeping tom?

How he even got a peep under that long skirt is beyond me but I say castrate the peeping tom

Edited July 8, 2013 by mania

[Exsexyman]

MILITARY'S TOP GENERAL: Edward Snowden's Leaks Have Undermined US Relationships

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman says NSA leaker Edward Snowden's disclosures about U.S. surveillance programs have undermined U.S. relationships with other countries and affected what he calls "the importance of trust."

Gen. Martin Dempsey told CNN's "State of the Union" in an interview broadcast Sunday that the U.S. will "work our way back. But it has set us back temporarily."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/dempsey-edward-snowdens-leaks-undermined-us-2013-7#ixzz2YSpZEnX7

"Undermines the importance of trust"! Did he say that with a straight face! Trust is earned by your actions, given what has been disclosed so far why on earth should US so called allies trust them ever again?!

[Publicus]

Europe is furious. After it calms down, action will follow

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-officials-furious-at-nsa-spying-in-brussels-and-germany-a-908614.html

Wonder why the UN has not said a word yet.

Germany, and the world, demands answers.

What they will get is a standard response from the US govt that they will look into to it. What they will really do is try and get their hands on Snowden to find out exactly what he has. They will then tell the world exactly what Snowden has told the world. Nothing more.

They won't dare say what they have done at this time because if they lie about it they can be caught out by what Snowden has and the shitteth will hit the faneth in a lot more ways.

The US won't dare say what has been happening......yet.

Isn't it a nice way to treat allies, spy on their govt. There I was thinking it was all in the name of preventing terrorism. So much for trusting their allies.

Oopsie, Turns Out The French Spy Too, And Not Just on Their Enemies

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/07/07/oopsie-turns-french-spy-too-enemies.html

All of that huffing and puffing by French President François Hollande over the recent alleged “revelations” regarding US spying looks a bit ridiculous now, after daily French newspaper Le Monde revealed that France has their own very large program of data collection.

The French program includes nearly all data transmissions (phone calls, emails, social media, etc.) and is done on the French public in France and abroad, on all data that comes “in and out of France”.

Last week in full blown outrage, Hollande grandstanded to reporters that talks on the trade pact “should be delayed at least until questions over the spying issue were resolved and confidence restored.”

Yet, France does it but without clear legal authority, “Le Monde reported that the General Directorate for External Security does the same kind of data collection as the American National Security Agency and the British GCHQ, but does so without clear legal authority.”

It is “a-legal”, “The system is run with ‘complete discretion, at the margins of legality and outside all serious control,’ the newspaper said, describing it as ‘a-legal.’” Your Facebook isn’t private from the spying French either! “[T]he French also record data from large American networks like Google and Facebook, the newspaper said.”

I always shake hands every time a see a French person to be sure the backstabber doesn't have a petite boutique knife in hand. Never turn my back to one either.

I'd suggest doing the same to people who want to express their indignation and ignorance of allies spying on allies. The French program is not a reaction to the programs, such as PRISM, enacted by our Congress either. The French and Germans too do this quite on their own.

.Laughable Foreign Outrage Over Snowden Affair

Ever since former NSA contractor Edward Snowden fled the job he held for three months, taking four laptop computers full of U.S. intelligence with him to Hong Kong and Russia, other countries have become "outraged" by the Snowden disclosures about American intelligence practices. What, exactly, is so alarming? Apparently, the fact that spies actually spy. Give me a break.

The average person might be excused for being surprised at what spies actually do and by Snowden's revelations about passive data mining -- even though such programs have existed for years. The fact that most people didn't even know about data mining supports the notion that the program hasn't been misused to undeservedly target the average citizen. And despite Snowden's revelations about PRISM data collection, there is zero evidence to suggest that the government won't remain steadfastly disinterested in the banalities of people's private lives.

Michael Hayden, the former director of both the NSA and CIA, thinks the solution is greater transparency with regard to spying. Really? American spy agencies are overmarketed and overexposed as it is. Keeping the American public, along with the rest of the world, more thoroughly informed about America's intelligence-gathering methods can't possibly outweigh the benefits of secrecy.

Spies are gonna spy, and no one knows that better than the governments currently whining the loudest about it: Germany and France.

A German-language document from 2006 obtained by WikiLeaks -- hey, I just said that I wasn't above rifling through the leaks -- detailed the extensive collaboration (58 meetings, in the case of one journalist) between Germany's secret intelligence service, the BND, and agents within the nation's mainstream media to identify sources and provide useful coverage. Yet German Justice Minister Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger had the audacity to refer to the monitoring of foreign representatives on U.S. soil as a "Cold War" tactic. Meanwhile, Germany is planning to invest another $130 million over the next five years in its own online surveillance program.

http://townhall.com/columnists/rachelmarsden/2013/07/02/laughable-foreign-outrage-over-snowden-affair-n1632366/page/full

Europe’s spying businesses thrive amid surveillance uproar

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d1b47a24-e232-11e2-a7fa-00144feabdc0.html

Europe’s politicians are outraged about alleged US monitoring of EU telephone and computer communications. But when it comes to building and exporting spy equipment, few are as capable as Europe.

That much was evident last month when the world’s leading sellers of electronic surveillance technology gathered in Prague at the ISS World trade show

Police and spy agency officials listened to closed-door presentations by a succession of European companies about their highly sophisticated internet and telephone communication interception wares.

Hacking Team, a Milan-based maker of eavesdropping software, demonstrated in Prague its remotely controlled spyware that can tap encrypted communications, Skype calls and instant messenger chats. The system also has audio and video capability, which allows police to spy using the target’s own webcam.

Munich-based Trovicor schooled agents on its “cell-based monitoring solution” to handle mass recordings while Gamma International, a UK-German company, demonstrated its controversial “FinFisher” spyware tool for remotely monitoring mobile phone communications.

At a time when European countries are loudly condemning the US and UK’s spying activities, Europe’s spy technology expertise is a potential source of embarrassment.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Yeah, trust.

[FDog]

Europe is furious. After it calms down, action will follow

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-officials-furious-at-nsa-spying-in-brussels-and-germany-a-908614.html

Wonder why the UN has not said a word yet.

Germany, and the world, demands answers.

What they will get is a standard response from the US govt that they will look into to it. What they will really do is try and get their hands on Snowden to find out exactly what he has. They will then tell the world exactly what Snowden has told the world. Nothing more.

They won't dare say what they have done at this time because if they lie about it they can be caught out by what Snowden has and the shitteth will hit the faneth in a lot more ways.

The US won't dare say what has been happening......yet.

Isn't it a nice way to treat allies, spy on their govt. There I was thinking it was all in the name of preventing terrorism. So much for trusting their allies.

Oopsie, Turns Out The French Spy Too, And Not Just on Their Enemies

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/07/07/oopsie-turns-french-spy-too-enemies.html

All of that huffing and puffing by French President François Hollande over the recent alleged “revelations” regarding US spying looks a bit ridiculous now, after daily French newspaper Le Monde revealed that France has their own very large program of data collection.

The French program includes nearly all data transmissions (phone calls, emails, social media, etc.) and is done on the French public in France and abroad, on all data that comes “in and out of France”.

Last week in full blown outrage, Hollande grandstanded to reporters that talks on the trade pact “should be delayed at least until questions over the spying issue were resolved and confidence restored.”

Yet, France does it but without clear legal authority, “Le Monde reported that the General Directorate for External Security does the same kind of data collection as the American National Security Agency and the British GCHQ, but does so without clear legal authority.”

It is “a-legal”, “The system is run with ‘complete discretion, at the margins of legality and outside all serious control,’ the newspaper said, describing it as ‘a-legal.’” Your Facebook isn’t private from the spying French either! “[T]he French also record data from large American networks like Google and Facebook, the newspaper said.”

I always shake hands every time a see a French person to be sure the backstabber doesn't have a petite boutique knife in hand. Never turn my back to one either.

I'd suggest doing the same to people who want to express their indignation and ignorance of allies spying on allies. The French program is not a reaction to the programs, such as PRISM, enacted by our Congress either. The French and Germans too do this quite on their own.

.Laughable Foreign Outrage Over Snowden Affair

Ever since former NSA contractor Edward Snowden fled the job he held for three months, taking four laptop computers full of U.S. intelligence with him to Hong Kong and Russia, other countries have become "outraged" by the Snowden disclosures about American intelligence practices. What, exactly, is so alarming? Apparently, the fact that spies actually spy. Give me a break.

The average person might be excused for being surprised at what spies actually do and by Snowden's revelations about passive data mining -- even though such programs have existed for years. The fact that most people didn't even know about data mining supports the notion that the program hasn't been misused to undeservedly target the average citizen. And despite Snowden's revelations about PRISM data collection, there is zero evidence to suggest that the government won't remain steadfastly disinterested in the banalities of people's private lives.

Michael Hayden, the former director of both the NSA and CIA, thinks the solution is greater transparency with regard to spying. Really? American spy agencies are overmarketed and overexposed as it is. Keeping the American public, along with the rest of the world, more thoroughly informed about America's intelligence-gathering methods can't possibly outweigh the benefits of secrecy.

Spies are gonna spy, and no one knows that better than the governments currently whining the loudest about it: Germany and France.

A German-language document from 2006 obtained by WikiLeaks -- hey, I just said that I wasn't above rifling through the leaks -- detailed the extensive collaboration (58 meetings, in the case of one journalist) between Germany's secret intelligence service, the BND, and agents within the nation's mainstream media to identify sources and provide useful coverage. Yet German Justice Minister Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger had the audacity to refer to the monitoring of foreign representatives on U.S. soil as a "Cold War" tactic. Meanwhile, Germany is planning to invest another $130 million over the next five years in its own online surveillance program.

http://townhall.com/columnists/rachelmarsden/2013/07/02/laughable-foreign-outrage-over-snowden-affair-n1632366/page/full

Europe’s spying businesses thrive amid surveillance uproar

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d1b47a24-e232-11e2-a7fa-00144feabdc0.html

Europe’s politicians are outraged about alleged US monitoring of EU telephone and computer communications. But when it comes to building and exporting spy equipment, few are as capable as Europe.

That much was evident last month when the world’s leading sellers of electronic surveillance technology gathered in Prague at the ISS World trade show

Police and spy agency officials listened to closed-door presentations by a succession of European companies about their highly sophisticated internet and telephone communication interception wares.

Hacking Team, a Milan-based maker of eavesdropping software, demonstrated in Prague its remotely controlled spyware that can tap encrypted communications, Skype calls and instant messenger chats. The system also has audio and video capability, which allows police to spy using the target’s own webcam.

Munich-based Trovicor schooled agents on its “cell-based monitoring solution” to handle mass recordings while Gamma International, a UK-German company, demonstrated its controversial “FinFisher” spyware tool for remotely monitoring mobile phone communications.

At a time when European countries are loudly condemning the US and UK’s spying activities, Europe’s spy technology expertise is a potential source of embarrassment.

So what does that have to do with what the NSA is doing?

If it is just normal, every country does it, no problem. Then why are the US after Snowden if it is no big deal?

[SinglePot]

"Europe’s spying businesses thrive amid surveillance uproars."

"At a time when European countries are loudly condemning the US and UK’s spying activities, Europe’s spy technology expertise is a potential source of embarrassment."

And what the f*** do you think the Chinese are doing?

Sitting around smoking opium and playing mahjong?

[FDog]

"Europe’s spying businesses thrive amid surveillance uproars."

"At a time when European countries are loudly condemning the US and UK’s spying activities, Europe’s spy technology expertise is a potential source of embarrassment."

And what the f*** do you think the Chinese are doing?

Sitting around smoking opium and playing mahjong?

No, I think they are now trying to tell the US govt that all their bitching about the Chinese spying is pointless because the US are doing the same thing but have been caught out and should get off their democracy soap box as it isn't worth a pinch of sh*t.

All this crap about US security but for some reason China is afforded the same privilege. Are the Chinese not allowed to be patriots or is patriotism the sole domain of the US govt?

[SinglePot]

"So what does that have to do with what the NSA is doing?

If it is just normal, every country does it, no problem. Then why are the US after Snowden if it is no big deal?"

Because the US is too soft. China assassinates people like Snowden.

Nobody in China is walking out of high security buildings with memory sticks.

China laughs at western democracy ha ha ha.

[SinglePot]

"Europe’s spying businesses thrive amid surveillance uproars."

"At a time when European countries are loudly condemning the US and UK’s spying activities, Europe’s spy technology expertise is a potential source of embarrassment."

And what the f*** do you think the Chinese are doing?

Sitting around smoking opium and playing mahjong?

No, I think they are now trying to tell the US govt that all their bitching about the Chinese spying is pointless because the US are doing the same thing but have been caught out and should get off their democracy soap box as it isn't worth a pinch of sh*t.

All this crap about US security but for some reason China is afforded the same privilege. Are the Chinese not allowed to be patriots or is patriotism the sole domain of the US govt?

Chinese are allowed nothing.

See post above.

[FDog]

"Europe’s spying businesses thrive amid surveillance uproars."

"At a time when European countries are loudly condemning the US and UK’s spying activities, Europe’s spy technology expertise is a potential source of embarrassment."

And what the f*** do you think the Chinese are doing?

Sitting around smoking opium and playing mahjong?

No, I think they are now trying to tell the US govt that all their bitching about the Chinese spying is pointless because the US are doing the same thing but have been caught out and should get off their democracy soap box as it isn't worth a pinch of sh*t.

All this crap about US security but for some reason China is afforded the same privilege. Are the Chinese not allowed to be patriots or is patriotism the sole domain of the US govt?

Chinese are allowed nothing.

See post above.

Why? Is it because they have slanty eyes.