Online Application Via TLS for Schengen Visa - Problem

[rixalex]

Just completed an online form for Schengen visa for family visit to France for Thai national with UK visit visa and with UK husband, using the TLS website. As i understood it, being married to a UK citizen and traveling with them, means that the requirement for documentation was pretty much limited to showing certificate of marriage, translated and then certified by MFA, showing passport, and showing address that one will reside at for period of visit.

However, having completed this online form, it shows you all the documentation needed for the application, and it is showing as needing all manner of things, like bank statements and a host of other in depth things. Did i fill in the form in some way incorrectly. Have i applied for the wrong visa? Should i ignore what it is asking for, and set up an appointment and just go with i think i need? Any ideas?

[rixalex]

Just phoned their call centre and was advised that the marriage certificate needs to be legalised by the British Embassy. Just did a forum search to see if anyone has written about how one goes about this, but it came up blank. Can anyone advise or point me in the right direction please? Thanks.

[GooEng]

The British embassy have a set list of charges for legalising documents viewable at

www.gov.co.uk/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand

[bobrussell]

If you are travelling with an EU husband/wife there are very few documents required and there should be no fee payable (service charge may be made if the application goes to an agent such as VFS).

The marriage certificate must be certified by MFA/Thai Embassy because it is the critical document that allows 'free passage' across the Schengen countries as a spouse. Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Thailand or Thai Embassy if outside the Kingdom have to do the certification.

Documents required are passports, marriage certificate (original) plus certified translation plus application form. Make it clear that you are travelling as a couple!

Helpful to add would be an approximate itinerary. Commonsense says get travel insurance and provide evidence of this!These are not requirements under EU law.

As far as I am aware the British Embassy is not involved at all with the translation. The marriage certificate (original) does not need to be 'legalised' in any way. It is the legal document already!

If you are not travelling with the EU citizen (or travelling to be with him/her) the full application (and fee) needs to be made.

Edited June 18, 2013 by bobrussell

[7by7]

As far as I am aware the British Embassy is not involved at all with the translation. The marriage certificate (original) does not need to be 'legalised' in any way. It is the legal document already!

Indeed.

It is the translation which Schengen countries want certified, and as Bob says this is done by the Thai MFA.

I think you go to the below address, their website isn't clear.

Legalization Division , 3rd floor

Department of Consular Affairs

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

123 Chaeng Watthana Road

Bangkok 10210

Tel : 0-2575-1056-59 Fax : 0-2575-1054

Service hours : 08.30 - 14.30 hrs. (Closed on Saturday - Sunday and Public Holidays)

Email : [email protected]

[rixalex]

As far as I am aware the British Embassy is not involved at all with the translation. The marriage certificate (original) does not need to be 'legalised' in any way. It is the legal document already!

Indeed.

It is the translation which Schengen countries want certified, and as Bob says this is done by the Thai MFA.

I think you go to the below address, their website isn't clear.

Legalization Division , 3rd floor

Department of Consular Affairs

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

123 Chaeng Watthana Road

Bangkok 10210

Tel : 0-2575-1056-59 Fax : 0-2575-1054

Service hours : 08.30 - 14.30 hrs. (Closed on Saturday - Sunday and Public Holidays)

Email : [email protected]

Thanks bob and 7by7.

Have actually already had the marriage certificate translated to English and certified by the MFA in Chaeng Wattana.

But when i phoned the TLS help line earlier today, asking for clarification on what documents are needed, the lady asked me if the marriage certificate had been legalized by the British Embassy. When I said no, she said i would have to go there and get that done before making an appointment with TLS. Is she wrong?

[7by7]

The marriage certificate itself, or the translation?

If the actual marriage certificate, then the British embassy cannot, and wont, 'legalise' it as it is already a Thai legal document.

As far as I can make out, they will only 'legalise' copies of UK documents and witness declarations as required by the Thai authorities, e.g. an Affirmation of Freedom to Marry.

See Notarial and documentary services guide for Thailand

If it's the translation; this is the first I've heard of such a thing; the certification by the MFA is usually sufficient for Schengen applications.

Maybe contact the French embassy direct and ask again?

[rixalex]

The marriage certificate itself, or the translation?

If the actual marriage certificate, then the British embassy cannot, and wont, 'legalise' it as it is already a Thai legal document.

As far as I can make out, they will only 'legalise' copies of UK documents and witness declarations as required by the Thai authorities, e.g. an Affirmation of Freedom to Marry.

See Notarial and documentary services guide for Thailand

If it's the translation; this is the first I've heard of such a thing; the certification by the MFA is usually sufficient for Schengen applications.

Maybe contact the French embassy direct and ask again?

Thanks 7by7.

To quote her directly, she said "has the marriage certificate been legalized by the British Embassy?", so i assume she was referring to the certificate itself rather than the translation. All very confusing. I will phone them again tomorrow.

[7by7]

Remember that TLS for French visas is like VFS for UK visas; just a handling agency.

Try to get hold of someone at the French embassy if you can.

[rixalex]

Remember that TLS for French visas is like VFS for UK visas; just a handling agency.

Try to get hold of someone at the French embassy if you can.

Thanks. Will do.

[beano2274]

I have recently done this with my wife.

Your Marriage certificate needs to be translated and certified by the MFA and your Embassy (the costs involved work out more than a tourist visa)

[GooEng]

interested in this thread as I'm hopefully planning a similar thing soon - holiday in the UK with the wife and kids and leave the kids in UK with grandparents and take the wife to Europe for a few days just us.

I was thinking about going to the uk first and applying for the schengen visa there - have either rixalex or beano looked into that at all? Or is it best to get it all sorted here?

[theoldgit]

You have to apply for a Schengen Visa in the country where you are normally resident, so you wife would need to apply in Thailand.

[rixalex]

I have recently done this with my wife.

Your Marriage certificate needs to be translated and certified by the MFA and your Embassy (the costs involved work out more than a tourist visa)

Thanks for the response beano. What you are saying is in contradiction with what has been said on this thread about the British Embassy not being able to legalize a Thai document. Anyway, would you mind explaining briefly what the procedure was at the British Embassy. No need for an appointment i take it? Just turn up with the marriage certificate, translated and certified by MFA, plus passports? Fill out a form when i get there? Is that it?

Also, with regards the online application, did you do one with TLS, and if so, did you encounter the same problem as me, of there being nothing in it that seems to allow the system to recognize that the requirement, document wise, for a Thai national married and traveling with a national from an EU member state is quite different from a Thai national traveling independently.

[beano2274]

The Embassy do not legalise it, the stamp the translation.

Just go to the British Embassy armed with documents and money/

I am sure that you can go straight to the French Embassy and not have to use TLS when applying as Spouse of EU citizen, give them a call.

[rixalex]

The Embassy do not legalise it, the stamp the translation.

Just go to the British Embassy armed with documents and money/

I am sure that you can go straight to the French Embassy and not have to use TLS when applying as Spouse of EU citizen, give them a call.

That's great. Thanks beano.

[Puyai]

I am also planning a trip next May to Spain for my sisters wedding and would like to take my Lao gf and son with me. We are not married. Would this cause any problems with the application?

[theoldgit]

I am also planning a trip next May to Spain for my sisters wedding and would like to take my Lao gf and son with me. We are not married. Would this cause any problems with the application?

No, none whatsoever.

[7by7]

Beano, thanks for the clarification about the British embassy certifying the translation. Do you know if this is just the French and just for applications made outside the EU?

For everyone I know who has applied for a Schengen visa in the UK a translation certified just by the MFA has been sufficient.

[beano2274]

so two things.

7by7 - at all Embassies I have talked to (German, French and Italian) in Bangkok.

To the OP, here is the document list, as per the TLS contact website, you need to click in the right places

List of the required documents

Important：The following document list is a general list. Please prepare your visa application documents according to the specific list which will appear after your online registration.

Visa type Short stay Travel purpose Family Member of EU Citizen Date of birth 1985-06-06 Nationality Thailand Occupation Employed

1. Short stay visa application form, dated and signed by applicant (original) (Case 36 and 37 and the last two case at the end of the Visa application form)
   (Download). For minor, signature of parental authority/legal guardian.
2. Two recent, developed identity photos
   Size 3.5 cm x 4.5 cm, with white background, taken within the last 6 months.
3. Passport (original)
   (Passport expiration date must be 3 months after the date of your return from the Schengen Area. With two blank visa pages with the mention “visa” to affix the visa sticker)
4. Passport (copy)
   (Copies of the passport pages having Schengen visas or stamps)
5. Old passports (original)
   (If you are in possession of one or more previous passports, it is mandatory to bring all of them)
6. Old passports (copy)
   (Copies of the passport identity and pages having Schengen visas or stamps)
7. Marriage certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse (if the marriage took place in Thailand), or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (Original)
8. Marriage certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse (if the marriage took place in Thailand), or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (Copy)
9. Marriage certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse (if the marriage took place in Thailand), or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (Translation)
10. For a child: Foreign birth certificate, or birth certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (original)
11. For a child: Foreign birth certificate, or birth certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (copy)
12. For a child: Foreign birth certificate, or birth certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (translation in English or French)
13. Thai birth certificate (original)
14. Thai birth certificate (copy)
15. Thai birth certificate (translation in English or French)
16. Proof of any change of name or surname of the applicant and their parents (copy)
    (if required)
17. Name change proof translation
    (if required, must be in French or in English)
18. Sworn statement by the European citizen declaring that they take responsibility for the applicant
    It's required if child or spouse of European Union national
19. Sworn responsibility statement (copy)
20. Sworn responsibility statement translation

All my wife used was MFA certification of Marriage Certificate, and Certified by the Embassy, My passport to prove EU Citizenship and proof that we were traveling together, this was just a letter.

Edited June 19, 2013 by beano2274

[rixalex]

so two things.

7by7 - at all Embassies I have talked to (German, French and Italian) in Bangkok.

To the OP, here is the document list, as per the TLS contact website, you need to click in the right places

List of the required documents

Important：The following document list is a general list. Please prepare your visa application documents according to the specific list which will appear after your online registration.

Visa type Short stay Travel purpose Family Member of EU Citizen Date of birth 1985-06-06 Nationality Thailand Occupation Employed

1. Short stay visa application form, dated and signed by applicant (original) (Case 36 and 37 and the last two case at the end of the Visa application form)
   (Download). For minor, signature of parental authority/legal guardian.
2. Two recent, developed identity photos
   Size 3.5 cm x 4.5 cm, with white background, taken within the last 6 months.
3. Passport (original)
   (Passport expiration date must be 3 months after the date of your return from the Schengen Area. With two blank visa pages with the mention “visa” to affix the visa sticker)
4. Passport (copy)
   (Copies of the passport pages having Schengen visas or stamps)
5. Old passports (original)
   (If you are in possession of one or more previous passports, it is mandatory to bring all of them)
6. Old passports (copy)
   (Copies of the passport identity and pages having Schengen visas or stamps)
7. Marriage certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse (if the marriage took place in Thailand), or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (Original)
8. Marriage certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse (if the marriage took place in Thailand), or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (Copy)
9. Marriage certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse (if the marriage took place in Thailand), or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (Translation)
10. For a child: Foreign birth certificate, or birth certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (original)
11. For a child: Foreign birth certificate, or birth certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (copy)
12. For a child: Foreign birth certificate, or birth certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (translation in English or French)
13. Thai birth certificate (original)
14. Thai birth certificate (copy)
15. Thai birth certificate (translation in English or French)
16. Proof of any change of name or surname of the applicant and their parents (copy)
    (if required)
17. Name change proof translation
    (if required, must be in French or in English)
18. Sworn statement by the European citizen declaring that they take responsibility for the applicant
    It's required if child or spouse of European Union national
19. Sworn responsibility statement (copy)
20. Sworn responsibility statement translation

All my wife used was MFA certification of Marriage Certificate, and Certified by the Embassy, My passport to prove EU Citizenship and proof that we were traveling together, this was just a letter.

Thanks for your post beano. Much appreciated. But a bit confused. You listed 20 requirements as requested by the TLS, and then you go on to say your wife only used a small handful. What was the reason for posting those 20 requirements, if you are saying most of them are superfluous?

[beano2274]

Hi Rixalex. (did not want to quote)

That is from the website just letting others know what the requirements are however, numbers 7 to 9 inclusive refer to the marriage certificate and the translations, you must take the original and all translations. Numbers 10 to 12 for children. Numbers 13 to 15 inclusive not required for your wife, rest not required.

Like I said, all my wife took were her passports plus copies, my passport plus copy, marriage certificate plus copy and the translations all copied, and proof that we were traveling together.

I actually spoke to the Foreign Ministry's of Germany and Italy to get my answers.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/593407-schengen-visa-for-wife-of-eu-national/page-7#entry6232556

Edited June 19, 2013 by beano2274

[rixalex]

Hi Rixalex. (did not want to quote)

That is from the website just letting others know what the requirements are however, numbers 7 to 9 inclusive refer to the marriage certificate and the translations, you must take the original and all translations. Numbers 10 to 12 for children. Numbers 13 to 15 inclusive not required for your wife, rest not required.

Like I said, all my wife took were her passports plus copies, my passport plus copy, marriage certificate plus copy and the translations all copied, and proof that we were traveling together.

I actually spoke to the Foreign Ministry's of Germany and Italy to get my answers.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/593407-schengen-visa-for-wife-of-eu-national/page-7#entry6232556

Just had a couple of long chats with a lady at TLS. First thing is that they charge 1,200 baht if you submit your application in the morning, 2.600 if you submit in the afternoon, in spite of the fact that the visa is free. Admin charges i guess.

Anyway, the other thing is that the documents they insist are required, is a list of 11 things, which includes such thing as birth certificate, original, copy and translation, change of surname document, and translation, etc. I asked if she was sure and explained that i know of other people like yourself who have applied just using marriage certifcate, copies of passports etc, but she wouldn't budge. I then asked if it was possible for me to submit directly at the French Embassy and she said i would have to make an appointment, and the earliest was 8th July, which is too late for me. I then phoned the French Embassy myself to check and the phone system only has the option of French speaking or Thai.

Not sure what to do now. Perhaps i'll just make an appointment with TLS and submit the same documents you did, and see what happens. Getting all this other stuff they are asking for is a lot of extra hassle and expense that i could do without if it is not necessary. Why are these things so frigging complicated?!!

[Arkady]

First of all, all or most of the Schengenland embassies in Bkk now seem to be operating a scam whereby they try to deprive family members of EU citizens of their rights to the accelarated free of charge process with minimal documentation either by making information about this very hard to find or by simply denying these rights. The French appear to be the worst offenders at this point. The objective of all them is to get as many family members as possible to apply through the normal channel with full documentation and full fees.

Regarding the embassy certified marriage certificate, this seems to be a new requirement introduced without any changes to the EU directives but all of the embassies now seem to require it on the basis that they the EU regulations entitle them to seek evidence that the marriage is regarded as legal in the country of the EU citizen's country, even though the legalisations provided by embassies clearly do not in fact prove this. I managed to get a Schengen visa for my wife at the German embassy 3 years ago without this but things have apparently changed there too now and anyway they make a point of being as nasty as possible to EU family member applicants.

Anyway it is quite easy to obtain the required embassy legalisation at the Brit embassy in Bkk. You just take along your Thai marriage cert with its certified translation notarised by the MFA and for B1,250 they will put a couple of stickers and signatures on it within one working day. Once you have this it is good for all Schengen embassies indefinitely.

I agree that an intinerary is a good thing to submit, even if not requested, because they are entitled to request evidence that the applicant is travelling with EU citizen family member or joining him or her. They also need to know that the applicant will spend the greatest number of days of their trip to Schengenland in the country of the embassy they apply to - country of arrival is not relevant in this context. They are not entitled to ask for travel or accommodation reservations, occupation, employment letters, or bank statements, all of which they routinely do request in order to catch out those who are unaware of their rights. Questions of this nature are asterixed in the application form, indicating that family members of EU citizens are not required to fill in those boxes - the German embassy until recently ran a scam which involved deleting the asterix on the occupation question from the standard EU form until complaints were made to their foreign ministry in Berlin.

I recently applied for Mrs Arkady at the Spanish outsource agency in Bkk. The staff were friendly but repeatedly asked for bank statements, hotel reservations and had to be politely knocked back. The stinger came in the form of an illegal facilitation fee of B950 charged by the outsource company. They also charged an optional B65 for a phone call to advise when the visa was available for collection but never called. It is better to check online. They said it takes a minimum of 15 calendar days but in fact they did it in 10. There seems to be no evidence of the accelerated process that EU family members are entitled to relative to other applicants but doing it within 15 days is within the EU guidelines, so no grounds for complaints. All in all I recommend the Spanish service, if you can swallow the illegal facilitation fee. They are at least friendly and polite and easy to knock back on their illegal requests for information which is more than I can say for the unpleasant local staffers at the German and Swiss embassies.

[merijn]

I had a lot of contact with the Dutch embassy about this accelerated procedure.

( I'm Dutch and married to my Thai wife in Thailand and living in Thailand)

I'm informed by the Dutch embassy that this fast track was not applicable to me as i can only use this at another EU embassy and not at the embassy of your home country.

This does not sound correct to me but he was very firm that it was correct.

Does anybody knows if this is correct?

I could always try to use the German or Belgium embassy but we don't go there for our holiday.

[theoldgit]

Yes I think they are right, you can only go down the freedom of movement route as an EU national in a member state other than your own.

[7by7]

It is correct.

The EEA freedom of movement regulations only apply when entering an EEA country other than the one of which you are a national; in your case The Netherlands.

If your wife wants to enter The Netherlands she has to apply to the Dutch embassy and meet the requirements of the Dutch immigration rules; unless you are living and working in another EEA country and she is living there with you.

[merijn]

I understand that but in my opinion this situation is a little bit strange.

We are officially married over 11 years for the Thai and Dutch law but we are living long time in Thailand.

If we go to another EU country for holiday she can get a fast track visa without any problem.

But if she wants to visit her own family in the Netherlands she have to beg for a visa and supply all the same papers as the very first bar girl who visits her boyfriend which she just met. ( sorry for the comparison if somebody is offended )

Sorry but i think that this is pure discrimination to legally married people who want to visit their own family.

[Arkady]

I think the concept is that the country of your EU citizenship is entitled to do more thorough checks on family members that want to visit your country with you because there is a much greater likliehood of the non-EU family member wanting to work or settle there than in other EU countries. It may be a pain but at least there is logic to it.

[merijn]

I think the concept is that the country of your EU citizenship is entitled to do more thorough checks on family members that want to visit your country with you because there is a much greater likliehood of the non-EU family member wanting to work or settle there than in other EU countries. It may be a pain but at least there is logic to it.

Even when the person is officially emigrated and not registered any more in their country of citizenship.

Sorry but i think that over the top, specially with the open borders.

If we fly to Holland she and I have to supply all the papers but if we fly to Germany which airport (Dusseldorf) is only 25 km over the border we almost need nothing.