Unfair dismissal

[Joburg]

I will be in the labour court beginning of next month. After weeks of soul searching and having received plenty of encouragement, I have decided to take my employment agent to court for unfair dismissal. I will keep a record of the court procedures and keep you updated.

I want fairness and justice and will start a facebook page where dismissed or unfairly treated workers can voice their opinion.

As they say - watch this space.

[chonabot]

Pm me the link please - very interested and good luck

Tot Siens

[kirstymelb101]

Good luck!

[aidenai]

Best of luck, Joburg.

[Joburg]

Here's the link to my article(s) on ajarn

*(link to another forum deleted)*

Edited June 18, 2013 by Scott
Link deleted

[ava15]

Replacement teacher "Stu" makes some interesting comment on your ajarn post

[thaicbr]

I'm confused. You were taken on as a replacement teacher with an agency. Why can't the agency place you at a different school?

As teachers we are generally contracted for 12 months or less it's only construed as a rolling contract after 3 consecutive years.

Do the agency owe you money?

If not just get a new job. I presume you have already. Have you?

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Scott]

A link to another forum was deleted. This is not allowed.

[Joburg]

I'm confused. You were taken on as a replacement teacher with an agency. Why can't the agency place you at a different school?

It's a very good point you are making , why didnt they just move me t another school? And thats what I base my case on. The agent had to give me 3 warnings before she could dismiss me, and to speed up the process she said she had given me 'several warnings' and if i didnt improve drastically I would be out in 2 weeks. She lied about givng me the warnings, and I confronted her with that. And when they threatened to fire me, I threatened them with the various Thai ministries. So, I became a hot potato and she could not move me to another school.

Its kinda like shooting yourself in the foot when you stand up for yourself

Follow the link to ajarn - when your face doesn't fit.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Joburg

[engrin]

pm me the link!

[thaicbr]

I'm confused. You were taken on as a replacement teacher with an agency. Why can't the agency place you at a different school?

 

It's a very good point you are making , why didnt they just move me t another school? And thats what I base my case on. The agent had to give me 3 warnings before she could dismiss me, and to speed up the process she said she had given me 'several warnings' and if i didnt improve drastically I would be out in 2 weeks. She lied about givng me the warnings,  and I confronted her with that. And when they threatened to fire me, I threatened them with the various Thai ministries. So, I became a hot potato and she could not move me to another school.

 

Its kinda like shooting yourself in the foot when you stand up for yourself

 

Follow the link to ajarn - when your face doesn't fit.

Yep. Read it. Still think your wasting your time and energy. It doesn't seem as if the agency owe you any money and you just confirmed that you made your stay with the agency unattainable. Earlier you said you didn't have a contract now your mentioning 3 warnings. Which is it?

Anyway good luck with what you plan to do.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Scott]

Whether there is a written contract or not is largely irrelevant. The employer still has to follow the regulations about dismissing someone. And this means a series of warnings.

[thaicbr]

Whether there is a written contract or not is largely irrelevant.   The employer still has to follow the regulations about dismissing someone.   And this means a series of warnings.   

Unless they have managed to let it go to contract expiry. Which seems to be the case here.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[Joburg]

pm me the link!

They delete my link. Its ajarn dot com - when your face doesnt fit.

I'm confused. Earlier you said you didn't have a contract now your mentioning 3 warnings. Which is it?

Anyway good luck with what you plan to do.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In order for the school to get a licence from the education dep, they need to have procedures in place, so the employment agent needs to follow these regulations, regardless of whether there's a contract or not. So, not contract, but thai ministry regulations for private schools.

[SlyAnimal]

Joburg, from what you've said here + elsewhere, I think you'll have a very difficult time with the Thai labour court, and even if you do get something, it's not going to be much. Definitely not enough to justify the legal expenses, time and potential risk (of losing, and thus getting nothing).

I hope that you're looking for another job at the moment, as otherwise you may find it financially difficult to remain in Thailand if you don't receive a payout.

But then I have a very opposite philisophy to you, as I would simply prefer to not work somewhere, if I feel that I'm not wanted/appreciated, and I generally prefer to focus on the employment relationship, rather than what's written in a contract. Likewise if I had co-workers who were working without a work permit, I don't think I'd ever consider, let alone take steps towards, dobbing them into the authorities as you did, particularly when your beef is primarily with the school and not them. But perhaps that's just a bit of the school yard code coming through lol.

Speaking of the employment contract, from what you've written, you don't have written contract? That's a little strange considering you were issued with a visa extension/work permit, as immigration/DOL always ask me for mine in addition to any letters the school has supplied me with. However even without a contract, the school/agency will have written letters to immigration/DOL stating your employment period etc. Assuming this is the case, you could use these letters as proof that your contract lasted until x date (Assuming that x date wasn't the 30th of April, in which case there would be no implication that you were hired past April 30th). As if you could prove that you were hired until a later date, then you'd only need to prove that you didn't commit serious misconduct (or receive the full amount of warnings required to be fired).

[Scott]

Whether there is a written contract or not is largely irrelevant. The employer still has to follow the regulations about dismissing someone. And this means a series of warnings.

Unless they have managed to let it go to contract expiry. Which seems to be the case here.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Not necessarily true. If your contract has expired, and you continue to work, you are still covered by the basic laws of Thailand.

If your contract is not renewed then unfair dismissal is much more difficult.

But, I think we are starting to split hairs on the general issue.

[gerryBScot]

I must confess to a certain interest in this. In particular I'll be interested in what happens to you at court. My instinct is, as others have said, that you are wasting your money and time. I too would simply seek a new job and get on with my life. But that is me.

I'm confused about the agency business. Presumably the agency can give you as much or as little work as it wishes, and presumably one of the reasons agencies are used is because as a general rule you only get paid for what you work; no holidays or sick leave. Or are you employed by the agency to work at this particular school for a fixed period of time?

Let me wish you well.

[thunder30101]

Unfair dismissal in thailand for a farang ? No such thing i'm afraid to say. You will get no justice just a black mark on your record, let it go and move on if you want to stay working in thailand. If I had a baht for every farang teacher screwed over by the system in thailand I would have more money than taksin.

[bangkok blue]

Good luck! Hope you have found a job that you are happier in now too.

[Arkady]

Technically the labour regulations apply equally to foreigners and there needs to be clear evidence of warnings given before dismissal, not just the employer's say so. The first can be verbal, although written or in front of witnesses is better, and the other two must be in writing explaining clearly the problem and what steps the employee must take to correct them and given enough time to do so, usually one month between each warning.

[thaicbr]

Technically the labour regulations apply equally to foreigners and there needs to be clear evidence of warnings given before dismissal, not just the employer's say so.  The first can be verbal, although written or in front of witnesses is better, and the other two must be in writing explaining clearly the problem and what steps the employee must take to correct them and given enough time to do so, usually one month between each warning.

Does that still apply if out of contract???

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[Scott]

Once you have finished your contract, I believe you are still able to file a lawsuit, provided that you do so in a timely fashion. I don't know what the time limits are, however.

I think that unless it is a really, really strong case, the labor department isn't going to want to look at it unless it was either filed during the contract or very soon after it completed.