Will HSBC return to Thailand?

[sas_cars]

Hi Guys

Just read the news that BOT is issuing licenses to foreign banks with much greater freedom to operate, unlike in the past where they had many restrictions which gave the local banks an unfair advantage over foreign banks. I guess this was one of the major reasons which made HSBC quit Thailand.

Here's the source

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/BOT-to-extend-new-banking-licenses-30209340.html

What do you guys think? Is it a chance that the new regulations make HSBC reconsider entering Thai market one more time?

[yoshiwara]

When you look at the link the new regulations specify that only 5 banks will be awarded licenses to have multiple branches. A half-hearted amendment to current banking rules. Don't expect HSBC to come back anytime soon.

[i claudius]

Who cares ,they are useless.

[sas_cars]

If they come back, it will be incredibly useful for expats who maintain accounts with them in multiple countries.

[Baerboxer]

My understanding, from HSBC people inside and outside Thailand, at the time was that the retail business was profitable here. So, it made it attractive for them to sell off as part of their 'global strategy" review. I thought the business banking side was being retained?

It would be difficult for them to return as they sold this buisness to BOA - and presumably the lawyers were smart enough to have clauses preventing a return and/or competition.

Befor I could transfer money to my Thai account from several other countries free. It was usually there next day as BOT insist on manual transactions. I could then move to my THB account when ER favourable, all free.

Now I have to pay a transfer fee, and it takes 2-4 working days.

I'd love them to retrurn and be able to use Globalview again. But, I don't think this will happen.

[MoonShadow]

As HSBC have sold their retail banking business and credit card portfolio to a Thai bank I don't think they will be back. They have neen here for more than 100 years but because of Thailand's restrictive banking laws they are unable to have more than one branch. Standard Chartered were in the same boat until they bought an ailing Thai SME bank but they are still very much Bangkok centric. Still no problem with banking with HSBC from HK and using a local Thai bank for day to day transactions.....

Edited June 29, 2013 by MoonShadow

[Stjohnm]

Not if they have any sense. If a companies the size of HSBC & Carrefour quit Thailand Completely it just shows how difficult a place Thailand is for Foreign Companies, I'd be amazed at how long Tesco have been in the country if it wasn't for the fact that it along with 7/11 effectively are just CP retail who pay a franchise fee to use the name & stock certain lines. I applaud Telenor for hanging on to DTAC for so long, but wouldn't be surprised if they were to sell up & quit the region if the deal to expand into Burma doesn't work out.

Even if there wasn't 5 Bank limit like Yoshiwara mentions with UOB & Standard Chartered well established with multiple branches I doubt HSBC would look at Thailand and think of reentering the market, they'd have to spend allot of money establishing themselves as a proper retail bank, better to stick to the Credit Card market where the public are concerned. Remember HSBC were out of the UK retail market for along time until they bought the Midland Bank if they were to enter Thai retail banking they'd have to do something similar & I don't see the BoT or the Finance Ministry allowing an HSBC takeover of Krung Thai or Kassikorn.

[aussiebebe]

Just read the news that BOT is issuing licenses to foreign banks with much greater freedom to operate, unlike in the past where they had many restrictions which gave the local banks an unfair advantage over foreign banks. I guess this was one of the major reasons which made HSBC quit Thailand.

HSBC's exit from Thailand was more to do with saving money. It's sold something like 50 business since 2011 and reduced it's global costs by $4 billion. It wants to cut another $3 billion by 2016 and shed thousands more jobs. Coming back into Thailand isn't going to help.

[dunque]

Not if they have any sense. If a companies the size of HSBC & Carrefour quit Thailand Completely it just shows how difficult a place Thailand is for Foreign Companies, I'd be amazed at how long Tesco have been in the country if it wasn't for the fact that it along with 7/11 effectively are just CP retail who pay a franchise fee to use the name & stock certain lines. I applaud Telenor for hanging on to DTAC for so long, but wouldn't be surprised if they were to sell up & quit the region if the deal to expand into Burma doesn't work out.

Even if there wasn't 5 Bank limit like Yoshiwara mentions with UOB & Standard Chartered well established with multiple branches I doubt HSBC would look at Thailand and think of reentering the market, they'd have to spend allot of money establishing themselves as a proper retail bank, better to stick to the Credit Card market where the public are concerned. Remember HSBC were out of the UK retail market for along time until they bought the Midland Bank if they were to enter Thai retail banking they'd have to do something similar & I don't see the BoT or the Finance Ministry allowing an HSBC taouringkeover of Krung Thai or Kassikorn.

Tesco appear to be labouring under the assumption that they have a proper business in Thailand. Of course you know better I guess.

http://www.tescoplc.com/index.asp?pageid=324

[yoshiwara]

Not if they have any sense. If a companies the size of HSBC & Carrefour quit Thailand Completely it just shows how difficult a place Thailand is for Foreign Companies, I'd be amazed at how long Tesco have been in the country if it wasn't for the fact that it along with 7/11 effectively are just CP retail who pay a franchise fee to use the name & stock certain lines. I applaud Telenor for hanging on to DTAC for so long, but wouldn't be surprised if they were to sell up & quit the region if the deal to expand into Burma doesn't work out.

Even if there wasn't 5 Bank limit like Yoshiwara mentions with UOB & Standard Chartered well established with multiple branches I doubt HSBC would look at Thailand and think of reentering the market, they'd have to spend allot of money establishing themselves as a proper retail bank, better to stick to the Credit Card market where the public are concerned. Remember HSBC were out of the UK retail market for along time until they bought the Midland Bank if they were to enter Thai retail banking they'd have to do something similar & I don't see the BoT or the Finance Ministry allowing an HSBC taouringkeover of Krung Thai or Kassikorn.

Tesco appear to be labouring under the assumption that they have a proper business in Thailand. Of course you know better I guess.

http://www.tescoplc.com/index.asp?pageid=324

That would be the same Tesco who laboured for several years under the assumption they had a proper business in the USA under the Fresh 'N Easy brand.

[Postmaster]

I believe Carrefour moved out of Asia completely. Could be wrong about it.

[Suradit69]

Not if they have any sense. If a companies the size of HSBC & Carrefour quit Thailand Completely it just shows how difficult a place Thailand is for Foreign Companies, I'd be amazed at how long Tesco have been in the country if it wasn't for the fact that it along with 7/11 effectively are just CP retail who pay a franchise fee to use the name & stock certain lines. I applaud Telenor for hanging on to DTAC for so long, but wouldn't be surprised if they were to sell up & quit the region if the deal to expand into Burma doesn't work out.

Even if there wasn't 5 Bank limit like Yoshiwara mentions with UOB & Standard Chartered well established with multiple branches I doubt HSBC would look at Thailand and think of reentering the market, they'd have to spend allot of money establishing themselves as a proper retail bank, better to stick to the Credit Card market where the public are concerned. Remember HSBC were out of the UK retail market for along time until they bought the Midland Bank if they were to enter Thai retail banking they'd have to do something similar & I don't see the BoT or the Finance Ministry allowing an HSBC takeover of Krung Thai or Kassikorn.

"If a companies the size of HSBC & Carrefour quit Thailand Completely it just shows how difficult a place Thailand is for Foreign Companies"

Of course, it must be Thailand that's at fault and not the marvelous farang run businesses ... although another conclusion might be drawn considering a trend that seems to have developed.

Hypermarket Carrefour will be exiting Singapore after the global retailer announced on Tuesday that it will shut its two stores located at Suntec City and Plaza Singapura before the end of the year.

Carrefour, the French retail chain, is selling its stake in its Greek joint venture owing to fears about Greece's deteriorating economic situation.

Carrefour, the world's second largest retailer, has announced it is selling its major assets in Japan and Mexico.

"The withdrawal of Carrefour from South Korea is mainly explained by a strategic decision by headquarters, especially because of the difficulty in acquiring a leading position in the near future."¹

Carrefour considering sale of China, Taiwan businesses; Carrefour has been exiting non-strategic markets to raise cash and to cut its debt

Carrefour to sell its Colombian assets to cut debt

Carrefour of France, second largest retailer of the world after Wal-Mart, has announced its withdrawal from Switzerland

Edited June 29, 2013 by Suradit69

[CiderFizz]

HSBC left Thailand because they couldn't enforce contracts in the courts.

[johnlandy]

Who cares ,they are useless.

Might be useless yes, but better than any other bank in Thailand.

Name a better bank "if you think that you can"

[rotary]

Who cares ,they are useless.

Look at the high fee's they charge. They are worse than useless. Hopeless suits them better.

[GeorgeO]

Who cares ,they are useless.

Absolutely right....! It cost me enormous amounts in charges to bank with them. Eventually turned to Bangkok Bank and never regretted it for a minute...!

[GeorgeO]

Who cares ,they are useless.

Might be useless yes, but better than any other bank in Thailand.

Name a better bank "if you think that you can"

Bangkok Bank...! I've been with both for periods of five years, and BB beats HSBC hands down!

[i claudius]

Who cares ,they are useless.

Might be useless yes, but better than any other bank in Thailand.

Name a better bank "if you think that you can"

Ayudda, never had a problem ,Thanachart ,never had a problem ,hsbc ,nothing but problems.

[BahBahBoBo]

HSBC left Thailand because they couldn't enforce contracts in the courts.

Better for Thailand they keep the blood-sucking multinationals at bay.

I hope they keep the whole lot of them out forever.

Once they start to control your money soon they control everything else and Thailand will end up just like the west... do you REALLY want that?

If your answer is yes, then it'd be much easier to... just LEAVE and go back to the west.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just read the news that BOT is issuing licenses to foreign banks with much greater freedom to operate, unlike in the past where they had many restrictions which gave the local banks an unfair advantage over foreign banks. I guess this was one of the major reasons which made HSBC quit Thailand.

HSBC's exit from Thailand was more to do with saving money. It's sold something like 50 business since 2011 and reduced it's global costs by $4 billion. It wants to cut another $3 billion by 2016 and shed thousands more jobs. Coming back into Thailand isn't going to help.

Ditto on that. HSBC's exit from Thailand was the result of the corporation's global retrenchment to save money. Thailand was just one little dot on the cost-cutting map.

After just selling out all their retail banking operations in Thailand to a local Thai bank, it would seem vastly unlikely that they would be back anytime soon -- at least in terms of retail banking.

[yoshiwara]

HSBC left Thailand because they couldn't enforce contracts in the courts.

Better for Thailand they keep the blood-sucking multinationals at bay.

I hope they keep the whole lot of them out forever.

Once they start to control your money soon they control everything else and Thailand will end up just like the west... do you REALLY want that?

If your answer is yes, then it'd be much easier to... just LEAVE and go back to the west.

Looking at the other threads about problems with Thai banks I think I know where I feel safer, but up to you as they say....and for using an overseas bank no need to leave Thailand. Strange comment. Edited June 29, 2013 by yoshiwara

[paz]

If they come back, it will be incredibly useful for expats who maintain accounts with them in multiple countries.

I have accounts with them in multiple countries, in Premier status, and that supposed usefulness is quite limited.

When they were still operating in Thailand they would require a W.P. to open an account, while Kasikorn was happy with my 30 days visa exemption.

In other countries, similar experiences, they really operate by (their own) local rules more than global ones. And they are now closing shop in a lot more other countries.

Similar experience with Citi (Gold status), difficulties to open the account and then transfers to/from Thailand are not free.

Bank by proven advantages and where you have truly good service, not just lip service.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Not if they have any sense. If a companies the size of HSBC & Carrefour quit Thailand Completely it just shows how difficult a place Thailand is for Foreign Companies, I'd be amazed at how long Tesco have been in the country if it wasn't for the fact that it along with 7/11 effectively are just CP retail who pay a franchise fee to use the name & stock certain lines. I applaud Telenor for hanging on to DTAC for so long, but wouldn't be surprised if they were to sell up & quit the region if the deal to expand into Burma doesn't work out.

Even if there wasn't 5 Bank limit like Yoshiwara mentions with UOB & Standard Chartered well established with multiple branches I doubt HSBC would look at Thailand and think of reentering the market, they'd have to spend allot of money establishing themselves as a proper retail bank, better to stick to the Credit Card market where the public are concerned. Remember HSBC were out of the UK retail market for along time until they bought the Midland Bank if they were to enter Thai retail banking they'd have to do something similar & I don't see the BoT or the Finance Ministry allowing an HSBC taouringkeover of Krung Thai or Kassikorn.

Tesco appear to be labouring under the assumption that they have a proper business in Thailand. Of course you know better I guess.

http://www.tescoplc.com/index.asp?pageid=324

Re your comments about Tesco and CP, I believe that CP sold out its former stake in Tesco Thailand in the wake of the Asian financial meltdown. Same with their stake in Makro, which now they're buying back.

But AFAIK, right now, CP has no meaningful ownership stake in Tesco here. CP is the Thailand franchise holder for 7/11, though. And they do have the CPLotus supermarkets in China.

Edited June 30, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[KhunMoo]

I would love for them to return, but as a "real" HSBC. The HSBC in Thailand was hopelessly ineffective, compared to HSBC in Hong Kong, who i use as my main Bank.

I've had accounts in +10 country's/banks and can't really understand the criticism of HSBC HK, best service i've ever had, when it comes to banks.


When you look at the rate, Thai banks grow, there might be an opening someday soon for e.g. HSBC to buy a Thai bank. No matter what BOT would like it or not...

[fletchsmile]

These things may be just hitting the main newspapers now. The banks have known about them for a couple of years or so. So things like FSMP 2 are not news to the bank's senior management.

In HSBC's case this was one of the reasons why the opened up a second branch, and had possible plans to open up to 20 when looking at the Thailand only strategy. However, the global strategy took prority. Bottom line HSBC globally has had to look at more efficient use of capital, and retail banking in Thailand doesn't make the cut. The returns on capital for retail banking for foreign banks aren't that great.. dominated by local banks which have enjoyed the odds stacked in their favour for many many years.

So no... I don't see HSBC coming back in the near future. Greater needs for capital elsewhere, and better opportunities elsewhere.

Cheers

Fletch

[negreanu]

Similar experience with Citi (Gold status), difficulties to open the account and then transfers to/from Thailand are not free.

what?

Easily opened Citibank in Thailand on presentation of passport and rental agreement.

And transfer free to and from Singapore, HK on a monthly basis without cost both ways.

Edited July 1, 2013 by negreanu

[sas_cars]

That's not free. Citi global transfer manipulate 2 % on exchange rates once you do the transfer.

[sas_cars]

That's not free. Citi global transfer manipulate 2 % on exchange rates once you do the transfer.

[negreanu]

Show me a bank that offers better instant international transfers than citi right now...

Transfered 133,000thb today from SIN got 30.55 to US dollar on the transfer. U can't find better any bank..technically not free but way "free" more than anyone else

[chiang mai]

Who cares ,they are useless.

Might be useless yes, but better than any other bank in Thailand.

Name a better bank "if you think that you can"

Ayudda, never had a problem ,Thanachart ,never had a problem ,hsbc ,nothing but problems.

Funny, Thanachart used to be a finance house and its loan book was almost single handedly resposible for triggering the Asian crisis in 1997, after a few years of, ahem, restructuring, they became a bank.

Ayuddya (BAY), apparently being sold to Mitsubishi Bank Japan.