German businessman found dead in Udon Thani flat, police believe it is a possible murder case

[mrtoad]

I admit that the police work performed here in Thailand is perhaps far from perfect, but there are very good ones out there like Dr. Pornthip, and I personally have a Thai police officer as friend who helped me a lot in the past years without asking me for a single Baht, ever! Guess the "police believe" part was one of those typical copywriting "accidents" that happen to most of the news articles here. Thai Visa needs a good and well paid editor, but that is too much to ask for, I guess...

R.I.P. Frank - I hope you are in a better place now. Condolences to his family.

Wheel out Dr Pornthip, the very discredited one

[mrtoad]

If ever I need a bleeding elephant tracked through ten feet of snow, I'll call the Thai police. They're the men for the job, without doubt.

They would probably still mess that up as well

[Bluespunk]

Mr. Hartwig liked to drink beer at local shops

I always said, drinking with local men is one of the seven deadly sins.

Wonder what the cause was.... from the sounds of it (ex-wife living in Denmark, so unlikely motive to be behind it, nothing major stolen) he likely made a local lose face and paid the price.

The article says he drank at local shops, it doesn't say he drank with local men

Please explain to me why it is bad to drink with local men. I'm sure it's just my ignorance, but I have been in bars with local men, although I knew them. I never was worried.

Seriously for the help of everyone, where is the danger? Thank you.

The dangers of drinking with Thai men are well catalogued on this site. When a row breaks out, over some real or imagined slight, knives and guns can be and are pulled out and used. . If the guys you are drinking with are the BIB the danger is worse as they are generally above the law, especially if the victims are not Thai. I'm not saying all Thais are like this, the majority are clearly not or the streets would be running with blood, however the danger does exist.

oh come on.

the dangers of drinking period are well documented all over the internet world wide.

try acting out in a bar in moscow, detroit or any major urban center and see what happens

Never said it didn't. Just saying what the dangers could be in response to the post.

[dighambara]

I'm not sure if drinking w/ locals would be any more dangerous than drinking w/ other Farangs and I don't really want to argue the point. The danger I see in both would be that Good Neighbor/Trust Everybody attitude that comes with over indulging in the joy juice. Inviting strangers or bar room aquaintances home for a few more to top off the night off because one doesn't want the good times to end or becoming so drunk that you are unaware that they have invited themselves.

Regardless, there is no safety net for these types of incidents that we read about so frequently as certain lifestyles lead to higher rates of mortality. There is no excuse for murder for he could have been, just as easily, robbed and left alive.

Being in a locked room in his underwear sort of rules out a surprised thief and does imply that someone left and closed/locked the door. Or he could have drunkenly fallen backward and hit his head and then rolled over to be discovered face down (was the room robbed or simply unorganized and trashy) - the possibilities are numerous and there is so much that the reporter did not bother to tell us.

Death at 46 is such a waste.

Some years ago, in California, I had an acquaintence who was 'buddy buddy' with everyone in many local bars. One night a fellow came up and stabbed him. Being excessively drunk, he didn't notice and gave his assailant a big hug. Numerous stab wounds, but he recovered and returned to his practice of drinking with anyone, no matter how untrustworthy.

[Freedomfighter]

'The police say the German Embassy has already been contacted about the matter. As for the cause for death, the officers said it could be murder and robbery as some properties of Mr. Hartwig were missing, but details are too murky at the moment.'

who writes this c---p? and how would the BIB know what is missing? They don't even know how to do a proper investigation.

[Emdog]

"the officers said it could be murder and robbery as some properties of Mr. Hartwig were missing" see, there are geniuses at BIB. Regarding the bleeding elephant: does it have money, connections? If so, be allowed to leave the country or some other solution. I am sure this case is a suicide. We farangs are well know for suicides with a blunt whack to back of our own heads. Happens all the time.

[bander]

Found in a pool of blood, headwounds caused by a blunt object!

Possible murdercase ??

I'd say this thai Sherlock are clever who figured out that it wasn't a suicide

[Baerboxer]

Yeah did the article really need to say that his ex wife was with another foreigner and that he occasionally bought women back to his room.

They are material to the story. His ex-wife now lives in Denmark with her new husband. Not a suspec therefore unless she happens to be visiting. Nothing wrong in a single man taking women back to his room, People can have as many casuual or serious relationships as they want. However, there is alawys the risk of taking a stranger back. So these ladies would beed to be identified, interviewed and eliminated from the enquiry.

I don't see either piece of information being derogatory to the victim, may he rest in peace.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Baerboxer

[bander]

"the officers said it could be murder and robbery as some properties of Mr. Hartwig were missing" see, there are geniuses at BIB. Regarding the bleeding elephant: does it have money, connections? If so, be allowed to leave the country or some other solution. I am sure this case is a suicide. We farangs are well know for suicides with a blunt whack to back of our own heads. Happens all the time.

Mr. Hartwig undressed all except his underwear, run as fast as he could backwards until he hit the wall with the back of his head and died from the injuries, typical falang suicide, case closed

[Mr Yim]

Firstly no one is suggesting it is suicide. Like a previous poster said, it is possible he fell back and took a blow to his head and then staggered forward. Only the investigating police officers can establish that.

Secondly, if it was murder or manslaughter, there is a dangerous guy or girl still roaming the streets in Udon Thani, so extreme caution should be exercised by anyone inviting an unknown guest back to their home.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Condolences to the man's family and friends...

As for the BIB, blunt force blow to the back of the head and items missing from his home...

How "murky" is that likely to be that the poor soul was done in by someone...

[Robi Schwab]

I just want to translate this. A man who is in the habit of bringing hookers into his own home is found dead with the cause being a blow to the back of the head.

Yea, you GOT it. Your superb knowledge of the interpretive Thai language astounds me, REALLY. Seriously, everyone commented thus far never even SAW this whoremonger fact. This single handedly IS absolutely a MAJOR cause of unnatural death hey.

[Robi Schwab]

Condolences to the man's family and friends...

As for the BIB, blunt force blow to the back of the head and items missing from his home...

How "murky" is that likely to be that the poor soul was done in by someone...

Yea SURE. However, done in ISN'T the problem here now is it? The actual problem here is in fact WHY he was done-in. Read the article again pal.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As for the cause for death, the officers said it could be murder and robbery as some properties of Mr. Hartwig were missing, but details are too murky at the moment.

The article and the police comments, pal, don't even go that far to presume he WAS murdered...

It stops at the point of police speculating whether it WAS murder... but as per my quote of the article and the police, the details are too murky for them to conclude that.

Maybe you can get the local police to actually conclude he WAS murdered, because they're sure not doing so in the OP article.

Edited July 5, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[peacetrain72]

Door was locked?

So they had a key or jumped out the window?

[louse1953]

RIP.

Mr. Hartwig liked to drink beer at local shops

I always said, drinking with local men is one of the seven deadly sins.

Wonder what the cause was.... from the sounds of it (ex-wife living in Denmark, so unlikely motive to be behind it, nothing major stolen) he likely made a local lose face and paid the price.

The article says he drank at local shops, it doesn't say he drank with local men

Please explain to me why it is bad to drink with local men. I'm sure it's just my ignorance, but I have been in bars with local men, although I knew them. I never was worried.

Seriously for the help of everyone, where is the danger? Thank you.

You'll find out soon enough, good luck drinking with locals

Been drinking with locals for decades,no problems.Had a few blues with Germans though,maybe i'm a suspect.

[louse1953]

O

RIP.

Mr. Hartwig liked to drink beer at local shops

I always said, drinking with local men is one of the seven deadly sins.

Wonder what the cause was.... from the sounds of it (ex-wife living in Denmark, so unlikely motive to be behind it, nothing major stolen) he likely made a local lose face and paid the price.

The article says he drank at local shops, it doesn't say he drank with local men

Please explain to me why it is bad to drink with local men. I'm sure it's just my ignorance, but I have been in bars with local men, although I knew them. I never was worried.

Seriously for the help of everyone, where is the danger? Thank you.

The dangers of drinking with Thai men are well catalogued on this site. When a row breaks out, over some real or imagined slight, knives and guns can be and are pulled out and used. . If the guys you are drinking with are the BIB the danger is worse as they are generally above the law, especially if the victims are not Thai. I'm not saying all Thais are like this, the majority are clearly not or the streets would be running with blood, however the danger does exist.

So does crossing the road,better stay home and get home delivery eh.

[bangkokheat]

surveillance camera?

[joeaverage]

Condolences to the man's family and friends...

As for the BIB, blunt force blow to the back of the head and items missing from his home...

How "murky" is that likely to be that the poor soul was done in by someone...

one would hope the murkiness came in terms of motive. the blunt force trauma is suggestive of foul play (murder or manslaughter), however police are unsure whether robbery or something else was the motive.

that be how i read it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Could be the case... but then note that the headline and lead of the article refer to this as a "possible murder case."

And nowhere in the article do they go any further than that.

[Pattaya28]

"Murky"

[jalansanitwong]

Ive lived in Bangkok since 1999 and there would of been thousands of farangs die during that period of about 5000 days.

How many Thais are serving time in prison for killing farangs ?

I can think of about six and they only got sent down due to western gov/embassy pressure.

This german guy possibly picked up the wrong girl who was desperate to pay off loan shark debts and the rest is history.

A Thai was murdered recently in bang kae market in front of dozens of witnesses for non payment of 7,000 baht debt. No arrests.

Everyone has to be careful here.

[sirchai]

Yeah did the article really need to say that his ex wife was with another foreigner and that he occasionally bought women back to his room.

Did he buy them back from somebody, or pay them some money, Mrs. Moneypenny?-

Edited July 5, 2013 by sirchai

[71Cuda]

1. Is there a balcony we can blame this on?

2. Did he have a butler?

3. He was found in his underwear. Was it Thai underwear? (Constrictive "asian tailored" underwear can lead to a sudden loss of consciousness in farengs.

Sherlock semloH

[Hecate]

I wonder why the "Thai girl who sleeps with him from time to time" did not inquire about him if he wasn't around. And I wonder where she is now.

[Tchooptip]

RIP.

Mr. Hartwig liked to drink beer at local shops

I always said, drinking with local men is one of the seven deadly sins.

Wonder what the cause was.... from the sounds of it (ex-wife living in Denmark, so unlikely motive to be behind it, nothing major stolen) he likely made a local lose face and paid the price.

he likely made a local lose face and paid the price.

[CIHUAHUA]

"The back of his head showed wounds caused by blunt object. Police say he has been dead for half a month."

Dead for a half of a month? And a "friend" found him? Who was the friend? Another murderer gets away with it.

[Postmaster]

Poor chap. What a shame. Only 46 and already been married to a Thai. Could have been perhaps a ladyboy who he took home?

[mrtoad]

Poor chap. What a shame. Only 46 and already been married to a Thai. Could have been perhaps a ladyboy who he took home?

This could be a case for Chalerm to solve, from his armchair

[marell]

I don't know that there is any danger in drinking with Thai men. There is a danger when fighting with Thai men, but otherwise, I fail to see the problem.

One should always be careful about who you bring to your home. Even an ex-boyfriend of a lady friend would be capable of committing robbery and murder.

My condolences to the friends and family.

I think one of the dangers referred to has to do with the fact that the step from drinking to fighting is often a very short one. If you're the only farang in sight this can get problematic real fast.

Edited July 5, 2013 by marell