Thai Buddhist swastika. Why the confusion?

[Baerboxer]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Might that "Hindi symbol" be Hindu Greg? Thanks for clearing up the confusion

[finnomick]

Seems to me, there are two different rules. One for Thais and one for everyone else.

Westerners are not allowed to disrespect Buddha images in western countries, even if it's done through ignorance, yet, Thais really don't care what westerners think when Thais use Nazi symbols like uniform parades (in schools), or use Hitler's name for restaurants.

Just goes to show you that Thais consider themselves superior to others.

Well, they do say that ignorance is bliss.....

[wilcopops]

An atheist can easily believe in the existence of both Jesus and Buddha, he just doesn't buy into the God part - hence the name "atheist"

[dogsdinner]

Just to clear things up. I personally have never seen a swastika propaganda flag in Thailand in the 12 years of coming here. I have never seen it either whilst living here now. The difference in its propaganda usage is completely obvious. The topic was the swastika. This pic is exactly the same as the one someone I personally know uses who practices Buddhism. Yes its origins I know are not from Thailand but that wasn't the topic. I appologise for thinking it always faced the other direction also and a thank you for those members who have been informative on the swastikas origins, different orientations and applications. It could have been an interesting topic but as usual the Professors on TVF can't sometimes help themselves from becoming over assertive. Cheers

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6416/159877177.1ec/0_a8fba_1b325dec_XL.jpg

well u must have been walking around with your eyes closed then !!

i've seen loads of Thai teens wearing t-shirts with Nazi Swastikas on them, i've seen street stalls along rampkhamhang selling same t-shirts and i remember walking past a little bar/restaurant near mall bang kapi with Nazi flags pinned to the wall !!

Mate if you have seen them. Good for you. Last time I checked I am not in your shoes and frankly I'm glad I'm not. Again the topic was the swastika NOT THE BACKGROUND IT HAS BEEN USED WITH LIKE THE PROPAGANDA FLAG. You seem to make a habit of personally attacking people in your threads rather than contributing to the topic. "Walking around with my eyes shut". I haven't seen it. I wouldn't care if I did. Each to their own. Here there is no governing law against wearing something others might find offensive. Congratulations pal. I hope your happy with yourself and please add another win to your ego. accept defeat. I will gladly

[hellodolly]

I also have noted many Farang's commenting on the swastika displayed on Thai tee-shirt and other places and attributed it to Thai ignorance of western suffering.

Educated people should understand that sign has been used for centuries by different peoples over the history of man for religious purposes.

It is widely used by Native American tribes in the US, another people that suffered greatly by the arrival of westerners to their lands and the holocaust that reduced their population from 16 million to the current two million population today.

There is a more historical perception behind the meaning and use of the display of the Thai swastika than that of the Western perception and or experience.

Cheers:

Interesting points. This could be a rather educational thread. However, it won't deter the Thai haters from their rant. Frankly, I just don't care anymore. Fact is, it's not going to effect tourism one little bit...regardless of how many Hitler KFC's Thailand has.

Not sure if the Hitler Chicken Shack uses the swastika in any of its forms. If they did and used it as the Thai symbol I doubt that it would offend any Thais just foreigners who were not aware of it's many forms. I knew it came from India originally but that was all I knew. I see by the chart it is the same as the Nazi one only set in the center of the star of David.

Kind of symbolic of what Hitler tried to do.

There would be a lot less controversy about it if the Hitler Chicken Shack had not put Hitlers head on to Colonel Sanders likeness.

[wilcopops]

"Most farang get the Thai swastika confused with Nazi Germany. The Thai's faces completely opposite to Hitlers. The other difference is one is over 2500 years old and is applicable to religion while the other surfaced in the 1920's during the rise of the Nazi Party. The seconds prevalence only continues to be seen today due to social extremists like skin heads and the Aryan Brotherhood. (AB) Both represent completely different ideologies."

have to say that almost evertything in the OP is incorrect.

the 2 symbols have the same origins - not completely opposite.

the swastika is very old in both east AND west histories.

It continues to be used throughout the West to make a point - art, punk, movies and MANY political movements use variations on the swastika - but it is in essence the SAME symbol.

[hellodolly]

Seems to me, there are two different rules. One for Thais and one for everyone else.

Westerners are not allowed to disrespect Buddha images in western countries, even if it's done through ignorance, yet, Thais really don't care what westerners think when Thais use Nazi symbols like uniform parades (in schools), or use Hitler's name for restaurants.

Just goes to show you that Thais consider themselves superior to others.

Well, they do say that ignorance is bliss.....

Coming from Canada and the US and having spent some time in Mexico in my 64 years over there I can not ever remember or seeing any thing about disrespecting Buddha images. In nine and a half years of Catholic schooling I never heard any thing said about it.

It never even crossed my mind to disrespect any image. It just wasn't brought up in the schools I attended and later the bars I hung around. I never heard any thing about disrespecting any thing religious until I got to Thailand and started hearing about some of the Islam beliefs. Come to think of it I do recall a fellow who wrote a book on Islam that was not respectful so they condemned him and said he should die.

[wilcopops]

THere is a question of perspective here - Asia especially S.E Asia lost far more poele as a result of WW2 than UK or US all around Thailand millions of people died as a result of Japanese occupation, but how is the swastika regarded i these countries? (I genuinely don't know).

Thailand's losses in WW2 were very light in comparison as they "capitulated" before the country was taken over.

Edited July 12, 2013 by wilcopops

[Jingthing]

...

It continues to be used throughout the West to make a point - art, punk, movies and MANY political movements use variations on the swastika - but it is in essence the SAME symbol.

That's an interesting point.

It's true that some Neo-Nazi groups twist the "traditional" Nazi swastika for their own purposes.

To wit in Russia the country in the world with the majority of active Neo-Nazis, which BTW targets ALL non-whites for violence, including of course Asian people:

http://www.1uptravel.com/flag/flags/ru%7Dnaz.html

Edited July 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[wilcopops]

THe problem is HOW the swastika is used........if it is in support of aziism - (in whatever guise) then one has to be disgusted.

however is is often used to make a point "lest we forget"

In Thailand it seems to be primarily used in a state of blissful ignorance.

[Nepsydaz]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

There you go .. WRONG again....

Get your facts right. Buddha was from NEPAL. he was enlightened in Gaya (a place in India) . His birth Place is Lumbini (a place in Nepal) and he used to be a prince there before he went out in search of Nirvana.

[hansnoi]

I learned a lot from this VIT (Very Intelligent Topic). Please allow me to thank each contributor for enlightening me. Here's the proof of that:

Not too long agp in The Netherlands organizers of an public event installed mobile toilets with paintings of Buddha on the doors. Nobody thought much of it till some Thai people in that country felt their religious feelings violated. They started a Facebook campaign against this blasfemous toilets, and soon it was followed by an outcry of outraged fellow believers in Thailand itself. The toilets were quickly remover after intervention of the Foreign Office. Now I know that all of this fuzz could have been easily prevented from happening. The paintings on the toilets should have been placed upside down.

[Nepsydaz]

Again you are wrong in fact ,buddha comes from Lumphini Nepal though he did gain his enlightenment in Sanarth India and died in Kushinagar India,correct me if im wrong

He lived on the Indian sub-continent, India as a country did not exist at that time, Nepal did not exist at that time.The country (Shakya Republic) in which he was allegedly born, was half in what is now Nepal and half in what is now India.The town he was allegedly born in (Lumphini) appears to have been in, what is now, the Nepal half.Can you be born in a country that is yet to exist? I think NOCan you be born in a sub-continant recently named? I think YES.

This works fine I you subscribe to the linear view of time, but this could be considered an outdated concept.

Same concept applies. If india Did not exist then how can you say he is from india? Why now just say Lumbini .. (Not LUMPHINI)

[wilcopops]

"There you go .. WRONG again....

Get your facts right. Buddha was from NEPAL. he was enlightened in Gaya (a place in India) . His birth Place is Lumbini (a place in Nepal) and he used to be a prince there before he went out in search of Nirvana.

Most farang get the Thai swastika confused with Nazi Germany. The Thai's faces completely opposite to Hitlers. The other difference is one is over 2500 years old and is applicable to religion while the other surfaced in the 1920's during the rise of the Nazi Party. The seconds prevalence only continues to be seen today due to social extremists like skin heads and the Aryan Brotherhood. (AB) Both represent completely different ideologies."

Nit picking going on here...in essence BUDDHISM migrated out from India - period.

Edited July 12, 2013 by wilcopops

[KarenBravo]

Seems to me, there are two different rules. One for Thais and one for everyone else.

Westerners are not allowed to disrespect Buddha images in western countries, even if it's done through ignorance, yet, Thais really don't care what westerners think when Thais use Nazi symbols like uniform parades (in schools), or use Hitler's name for restaurants.

Just goes to show you that Thais consider themselves superior to others.

No, it's nothing like that. In Thailand, the community standards are Thai (obviously). In other countries, the community standards would be based on the will of the citizens of that particular country. A Thai certainly wouldn't want to go to Germany and flash a Nazi t-shirt.

As for your misleading example, the Thais complaining about disrespect of Buddha images in the west is exactly the same as you complaining about Nazi images in Thailand. Understand?

Except that in the West the offensive image is removed and an apology made. The ignorance is acknowledged. In Thailand it isn't. Understand?

[stickylies]

in essence BUDDHISM migrated out from India - period.

in essence BUDDHISM migrated out from people's fear, just like any religion - period.

[simple1]

Seems to me, there are two different rules. One for Thais and one for everyone else.

Westerners are not allowed to disrespect Buddha images in western countries, even if it's done through ignorance, yet, Thais really don't care what westerners think when Thais use Nazi symbols like uniform parades (in schools), or use Hitler's name for restaurants.

Just goes to show you that Thais consider themselves superior to others.

Well, they do say that ignorance is bliss.....

Coming from Canada and the US and having spent some time in Mexico in my 64 years over there I can not ever remember or seeing any thing about disrespecting Buddha images. In nine and a half years of Catholic schooling I never heard any thing said about it.

It never even crossed my mind to disrespect any image. It just wasn't brought up in the schools I attended and later the bars I hung around. I never heard any thing about disrespecting any thing religious until I got to Thailand and started hearing about some of the Islam beliefs. Come to think of it I do recall a fellow who wrote a book on Islam that was not respectful so they condemned him and said he should die.

This topic is about Nazi symbols in Thailand & why offence may be taken. It's relevant to mention that sacrilegious acts in Thailand e.g. disrespecting the image of Buddha, are punishable by imprisonment for Thais & foreigners.

Edited July 12, 2013 by simple1

[Docno]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

There you go .. WRONG again....

Get your facts right. Buddha was from NEPAL. he was enlightened in Gaya (a place in India) . His birth Place is Lumbini (a place in Nepal) and he used to be a prince there before he went out in search of Nirvana.

Well, to get technical, it's not really correct to say he "from Nepal" either, as Nepal didn't exist as an entity at that time. It's like saying St Paul was "from Turkey", when Turkey did not exist for another 1000+ years, or that King Arthur was "from England", etc etc.

[wilcopops]

in essence BUDDHISM migrated out from India - period.

in essence BUDDHISM migrated out from people's fear, just like any religion - period.

in essence BUDDHISM migrated out from India - period.

in essence BUDDHISM migrated out from people's fear, just like any religion - period.

Now you're just getting facile.

[Docno]

Seems to me, there are two different rules. One for Thais and one for everyone else.

Westerners are not allowed to disrespect Buddha images in western countries, even if it's done through ignorance, yet, Thais really don't care what westerners think when Thais use Nazi symbols like uniform parades (in schools), or use Hitler's name for restaurants.

Just goes to show you that Thais consider themselves superior to others.

No, it's nothing like that. In Thailand, the community standards are Thai (obviously). In other countries, the community standards would be based on the will of the citizens of that particular country. A Thai certainly wouldn't want to go to Germany and flash a Nazi t-shirt.

As for your misleading example, the Thais complaining about disrespect of Buddha images in the west is exactly the same as you complaining about Nazi images in Thailand. Understand?

Except that in the West the offensive image is removed and an apology made. The ignorance is acknowledged. In Thailand it isn't. Understand?

I'm sorry, but that's not always the case. For example, Disney has made a series of kid-oriented movies about a group of puppies with super-powers called the Buddies. Despite protests from Buddhists, they have not changed the name of one of the dogs which is named 'Buddha'. And the Buddha Bar franchise continues with its name as well (again despite protests from devout Buddhists)....

[hellodolly]

Seems to me, there are two different rules. One for Thais and one for everyone else.

Westerners are not allowed to disrespect Buddha images in western countries, even if it's done through ignorance, yet, Thais really don't care what westerners think when Thais use Nazi symbols like uniform parades (in schools), or use Hitler's name for restaurants.

Just goes to show you that Thais consider themselves superior to others.

Well, they do say that ignorance is bliss.....

Coming from Canada and the US and having spent some time in Mexico in my 64 years over there I can not ever remember or seeing any thing about disrespecting Buddha images. In nine and a half years of Catholic schooling I never heard any thing said about it.

It never even crossed my mind to disrespect any image. It just wasn't brought up in the schools I attended and later the bars I hung around. I never heard any thing about disrespecting any thing religious until I got to Thailand and started hearing about some of the Islam beliefs. Come to think of it I do recall a fellow who wrote a book on Islam that was not respectful so they condemned him and said he should die.

This topic is about Nazi symbols in Thailand & why offence may be taken. It's relevant to mention that sacrilegious acts in Thailand e.g. disrespecting the image of Buddha, are punishable by imprisonment for Thais & foreigners.

My post was in response to

This false information on a previous post.

"Westerners are not allowed to disrespect Buddha images in western countries,"

As far as respecting Nazi symbols in Thailand the truth is I don't know. Is there a Nazi swastika on the Hitler Chicken Shack sign. Are the swastika's on t shirt's German or are they Thai. Until this topic came up I never considered them to be any thing other than Nazi. That is because my North American education did not talk about other kinds. Now as a result of this thread I know the difference and if I see one on a T Shirt I will make note of weather it is Nazi or Thai.

[Dap]

I see its you who is confused because your saying its Thai when in fact its the Hindi symbol .And sawasdee originates from that as well .

Yes the first Buddha came from India so yes its origin is Hindi. Buddhism progressed from India. How else is it over 2500 years old with a little education? I was stating why Farang confuse it here in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Thais practice Buddhism and display the symbol because of the relationship and parallels between the two religions? Some farang in Thailand have no idea that the first Buddha was from India and continue to be critical of the symbol and ignorantly start speaking of its use by the Nazi Party. This topic was applicable to discussions heard in Thailand? So thank you but I am far from being confused.

On my way home today I noticed a new clothes shop has opened near me and prominently displayed is a black t-shirt

with a large nazi swastika. I don't believe anyone in the shop is confused.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Dap

[wilcopops]

I suppose this will come under some discussion.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/653200-bangkok-chula-students-celebrate-graduation-with-hitler/?utm_source=newsletter-20130712-1602&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

[Dap]

Seems to me, there are two different rules. One for Thais and one for everyone else.

Westerners are not allowed to disrespect Buddha images in western countries, even if it's done through ignorance, yet, Thais really don't care what westerners think when Thais use Nazi symbols like uniform parades (in schools), or use Hitler's name for restaurants.

Just goes to show you that Thais consider themselves superior to others.

No, it's nothing like that. In Thailand, the community standards are Thai (obviously). In other countries, the community standards would be based on the will of the citizens of that particular country. A Thai certainly wouldn't want to go to Germany and flash a Nazi t-shirt.

As for your misleading example, the Thais complaining about disrespect of Buddha images in the west is exactly the same as you complaining about Nazi images in Thailand. Understand?

Except that in the West the offensive image is removed and an apology made. The ignorance is acknowledged. In Thailand it isn't. Understand?

I'm sorry, but that's not always the case. For example, Disney has made a series of kid-oriented movies about a group of puppies with super-powers called the Buddies. Despite protests from Buddhists, they have not changed the name of one of the dogs which is named 'Buddha'. And the Buddha Bar franchise continues with its name as well (again despite protests from devout Buddhists)....

Down Mexico way, Jesus, pronounced heysus is quite common. The dog could easily be called jesus, with no problems.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I'm sorry, but that's not always the case. For example, Disney has made a series of kid-oriented movies about a group of puppies with super-powers called the Buddies. Despite protests from Buddhists, they have not changed the name of one of the dogs which is named 'Buddha'. And the Buddha Bar franchise continues with its name as well (again despite protests from devout Buddhists)....

Down Mexico way, Jesus, pronounced heysus is quite common. The dog could easily be called jesus, with no problems.

For some reason you got me thinking of this.

[Mudcrab]

How can a symbol be offensive? A swastika never hurt anyone.

The issue is Nazism - which did hurt a lot of people - some people have trouble separating the two.

I would suggest you have a lot more to worry about from a group of Thais wearing plain red shirts than a group of Thais wearing shirts with swastikas on them

[Berkshire]

Seems to me, there are two different rules. One for Thais and one for everyone else.

Westerners are not allowed to disrespect Buddha images in western countries, even if it's done through ignorance, yet, Thais really don't care what westerners think when Thais use Nazi symbols like uniform parades (in schools), or use Hitler's name for restaurants.

Just goes to show you that Thais consider themselves superior to others.

No, it's nothing like that. In Thailand, the community standards are Thai (obviously). In other countries, the community standards would be based on the will of the citizens of that particular country. A Thai certainly wouldn't want to go to Germany and flash a Nazi t-shirt.

As for your misleading example, the Thais complaining about disrespect of Buddha images in the west is exactly the same as you complaining about Nazi images in Thailand. Understand?

Except that in the West the offensive image is removed and an apology made. The ignorance is acknowledged. In Thailand it isn't. Understand?

I'm sorry, but that's not always the case. For example, Disney has made a series of kid-oriented movies about a group of puppies with super-powers called the Buddies. Despite protests from Buddhists, they have not changed the name of one of the dogs which is named 'Buddha'. And the Buddha Bar franchise continues with its name as well (again despite protests from devout Buddhists)....

That's correct. I can also give you other examples from the USA, like the Confederate Flag (extremely offensive to African-Americans), likeness of Indians for sports teams (debate has been going on for years, but teams refuse to change), etc., etc. Karen doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that ignorance is a worldwide phenomenon and the Thais are no better/worse.

[Dap]

I'm sorry, but that's not always the case. For example, Disney has made a series of kid-oriented movies about a group of puppies with super-powers called the Buddies. Despite protests from Buddhists, they have not changed the name of one of the dogs which is named 'Buddha'. And the Buddha Bar franchise continues with its name as well (again despite protests from devout Buddhists)....

Down Mexico way, Jesus, pronounced heysus is quite common. The dog could easily be called jesus, with no problems.

For some reason you got me thinking of this.

LOL Yup, exactly where this thread is going. Too funny.

[Docno]

I'm sorry, but that's not always the case. For example, Disney has made a series of kid-oriented movies about a group of puppies with super-powers called the Buddies. Despite protests from Buddhists, they have not changed the name of one of the dogs which is named 'Buddha'. And the Buddha Bar franchise continues with its name as well (again despite protests from devout Buddhists)....

Down Mexico way, Jesus, pronounced heysus is quite common. The dog could easily be called jesus, with no problems.

Yeah, and a lot of Muslims are named Mohammed, but it's a very matter to call your dog Mohammed (or Jesus for that matter). Are you aware of any dogs named Jesus, or are you just making assumptions? [i'm sure there are some out there, perhaps even in Mexico, but I doubt it is a common name... when Mexicans name their kids 'Jesus' they do so out of reverence for their god, so I doubt they'd name their dog Jesus as well].

[Kayahammer]

Again you are wrong in fact ,buddha comes from Lumphini Nepal though he did gain his enlightenment in Sanarth India and died in Kushinagar India,correct me if im wrong

You are in fact 100% correct. I should know as i visited his birthplace (in Nepal)