Returning Expat Culture Shock......

[Time Traveller]

I worked many years in Investment Banking in London and then returned to the nanny state of Australia and yes it was a shock. Working in the same industry in Sydney with the weird sydney people and their uptight personalities drove me insane. Most of them acted like they had a carrot up their bum and some of them held their noses so high that they would nearly drown in a rain storm. Needless to say I did not last long and decided to move to LOS to be amongst more normal farang....

Oh woe to be you. A London Investment banker in Sydney. How terribly terribly horrible. My heart bleeds. But I am glad to hear you now found a place like Thailand where the people appreciate Investment Bankers like you. Pip Pip!

Edited July 11, 2013 by Time Traveller

[Bluetongue]

Going back to Australia once a year, to good roads, I can read nearly everything, can have a punt, a beer or three with my mates, everyone always looks older - which they are, my parents going from just elderly to dementia and much more. These things don't shock me.

But zealous police, over friendly but obviously suspicious immigration and customs officers, and using public transport with the mass meat going to or from work and immersed in themselves, not interested at all in what others are doing, and last but not least, the prices, these things are always a shock to me.

[uptheos]

Going back to Australia once a year, to good roads, I can read nearly everything, can have a punt, a beer or three with my mates, everyone always looks older - which they are, my parents going from just elderly to dementia and much more. These things don't shock me.

But zealous police, over friendly but obviously suspicious immigration and customs officers, and using public transport with the mass meat going to or from work and immersed in themselves, not interested at all in what others are doing, and last but not least, the prices, these things are always a shock to me.

How does this impact on your daily life.......are you a smuggler on a daily basis?

[simple1]

It would be good to take time to read the article.

"Due diligence" has nothing to do with it.

"The longer the length of the assignment, the higher the stress levels, said Dalton. Expats often talk about “re-entry shock,” and reverse homesickness is quite common."

Culture shock when returning home or to the office you left 3 years prior or 10 years in the distant past is not to be controlled by logic, it is a gut feeling that can be surprisingly strong and can last.

Not trying to be argumentative; due diligence is applicable when agreeing or not to an international assignment or indeed returning to your home country, it's even obliquely referred to in the article. Agree minimising culture shock is not just a logical process. One time I returned to my home city, London, after being away for seven years and initially loved the experience of being home. Six months down the track regretted the decision, resigned and departed the UK to never return, 30 years so far.

[nong38]

It would be good to take time to read the article.

"Due diligence" has nothing to do with it.

"The longer the length of the assignment, the higher the stress levels, said Dalton. Expats often talk about “re-entry shock,” and reverse homesickness is quite common."

Culture shock when returning home or to the office you left 3 years prior or 10 years in the distant past is not to be controlled by logic, it is a gut feeling that can be surprisingly strong and can last.

Not trying to be argumentative; due diligence is applicable when agreeing or not to an international assignment or indeed returning to your home country, it's even obliquely referred to in the article. Agree minimising culture shock is not just a logical process. One time I returned to my home city, London, after being away for seven years and initially loved the experience of being home. Six months down the track regretted the decision, resigned and departed the UK to never return, 30 years so far.

The novelty wears off for me after about 3 weeks, after 5 I have a flight to look forward too!

[nong38]

It would be good to take time to read the article.

"Due diligence" has nothing to do with it.

"The longer the length of the assignment, the higher the stress levels, said Dalton. Expats often talk about “re-entry shock,” and reverse homesickness is quite common."

Culture shock when returning home or to the office you left 3 years prior or 10 years in the distant past is not to be controlled by logic, it is a gut feeling that can be surprisingly strong and can last.

Not trying to be argumentative; due diligence is applicable when agreeing or not to an international assignment or indeed returning to your home country, it's even obliquely referred to in the article. Agree minimising culture shock is not just a logical process. One time I returned to my home city, London, after being away for seven years and initially loved the experience of being home. Six months down the track regretted the decision, resigned and departed the UK to never return, 30 years so far.

The novelty wears off for me after about 3 weeks, after 5 I have a flight to look forward too!

[Bluetongue]

Going back to Australia once a year, to good roads, I can read nearly everything, can have a punt, a beer or three with my mates, everyone always looks older - which they are, my parents going from just elderly to dementia and much more. These things don't shock me.

But zealous police, over friendly but obviously suspicious immigration and customs officers, and using public transport with the mass meat going to or from work and immersed in themselves, not interested at all in what others are doing, and last but not least, the prices, these things are always a shock to me.

How does this impact on your daily life.......are you a smuggler on a daily basis?

It doesn't and no I'm not, sorry did I say somewhere that it did. As a returning expat these are the first people you interact with and their enforced cheer doesn't wash with me, I've had a 9 or more hour flight I just want to get out of the Airport not chit chat with uniformed flunkies

[OldChinaHam]

It would be good to take time to read the article.

"Due diligence" has nothing to do with it.

"The longer the length of the assignment, the higher the stress levels, said Dalton. Expats often talk about “re-entry shock,” and reverse homesickness is quite common."

Culture shock when returning home or to the office you left 3 years prior or 10 years in the distant past is not to be controlled by logic, it is a gut feeling that can be surprisingly strong and can last.

Not trying to be argumentative; due diligence is applicable when agreeing or not to an international assignment or indeed returning to your home country, it's even obliquely referred to in the article. Agree minimising culture shock is not just a logical process. One time I returned to my home city, London, after being away for seven years and initially loved the experience of being home. Six months down the track regretted the decision, resigned and departed the UK to never return, 30 years so far.

I always thought it strange when I met so many of your countrymen in HK who spoke about living in London and other parts of your island in the same way. They were professionals in business, as well as the government service sector and MDs too. This was during the 1980s,.and they were complaining about taxes mostly.

But culture shock upon returning to one's home country is something that wears off in no more than a month or two, any longer than this and you got yourself a dose of deep-seated disenchantment with the homeland.

The cure could be Thailand and a Thai Mama.

[farang000999]

Always takes awhile to get used to farang in your country screaming at the grocery cashiers for going to slow as they wait in line with their tax payer supplied food stamps. For those who have not been back to the USA since the housing bubble, you are going to be amazed at how downhill it all has gone.

Edited July 11, 2013 by farang000999

[OldChinaHam]

Going back to Australia once a year, to good roads, I can read nearly everything, can have a punt, a beer or three with my mates, everyone always looks older - which they are, my parents going from just elderly to dementia and much more. These things don't shock me.

But zealous police, over friendly but obviously suspicious immigration and customs officers, and using public transport with the mass meat going to or from work and immersed in themselves, not interested at all in what others are doing, and last but not least, the prices, these things are always a shock to me.

How does this impact on your daily life.......are you a smuggler on a daily basis?

It doesn't and no I'm not, sorry did I say somewhere that it did. As a returning expat these are the first people you interact with and their enforced cheer doesn't wash with me, I've had a 9 or more hour flight I just want to get out of the Airport not chit chat with uniformed flunkies

Yes, you have correctly identified and described the true feelings of culture shock.

But I think I would also include the feelings which you experience including parents sudden aging, friends who are older, all things which should be included under the culture shock umbrella.

You also mention a very important fact of life which impacts all westerners when they return home from East Asia or Southeast Asia, the over friendly but obviously suspicious immigration and customs officers or the cops who eye us like criminals. This is a result of the weird state, the weird response to perceived "terror" threat. I HAVE never experienced this in Taiwan, Thailand, HK, and Asia seems to remain the sane while America goes NUTS. I don't think I could easily adjust to the USA terror response shocker which is uncalled for and too bizarre to not cause lasting shock for new arrivals from Asia such as returning expats.

America is drifting toward a police state, maybe worse than China, and we expats from Asia just don't like it when we first step off the plane. We are Fing disoriented and repulsed by it.

[samran]

Then....................you realise there are no bum guns.

How do these people expect to get themselves clean using paper?

I keep a travel pack of wet ones at my office desk and a big pack at home. Closest thing to a bum gun here without resorting to a glass of water. Actually my missus uses the glass of water in the dunny and the other day I caught my 3 year old drinking out of it.

No bum gun, please save us...

For the 3 year we were in OZ, that was a problem. Shipped one over from BKK, installed it myself and off I went. Not even 3 degree mornings stopped me using it. The alternative of not using one was worse!

[farang000999]

they sell bum guns in home depot in the USA.

[theblether]

It's certainly the case that travel broadens the mind, and when we reappear in our home countries and hear some of the petty remarks, and see what constitutes daily life for many people, it can be disconcerting.

My longest ex-pat stint was in Germany, where I worked on US military bases. I got to live in two cultures at the same time. It was a fascinating experience and it taught me so much. In as much as I love Scotland I regret that certain things are impossible because our society has allowed a rough mentality to take over.

We used to have Gala Days in every town and village, just like the Germans have with their annual Fests. Now almost all have been abandoned due to anti-social behaviour, while the Germans still drink all day with the extended family and never a fight breaks out.

As for the Thais overseas, I think a lot of them thought that Farangland was paved with Gold, and once they saw the reality they got a shock. The problem then is, trying to explain that to your family back in Thailand.

" No I don't live in a Palace with a maid, no I don't have a Rolls Royce, yes my skin is still brown ".

As for work, as I mentioned already, to go from the US customer service mentality which was all about making the customer happy, to the British mentality which was to eff the customer off and get away with as little as possible was a real shock. That's the primary reason why I went back into self employment, I couldn't handle the corporate culture.

[Time Traveller]

It would be good to take time to read the article.

"Due diligence" has nothing to do with it.

"The longer the length of the assignment, the higher the stress levels, said Dalton. Expats often talk about “re-entry shock,” and reverse homesickness is quite common."

Culture shock when returning home or to the office you left 3 years prior or 10 years in the distant past is not to be controlled by logic, it is a gut feeling that can be surprisingly strong and can last.

What you're describing is the expats that went away to another country and were treated like gods. Upon returning to their own country they discovered they were not. Shocking that people are interested in things other than you isn't it.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Time Traveller

[simple1]

It would be good to take time to read the article.

"Due diligence" has nothing to do with it.

"The longer the length of the assignment, the higher the stress levels, said Dalton. Expats often talk about “re-entry shock,” and reverse homesickness is quite common."

Culture shock when returning home or to the office you left 3 years prior or 10 years in the distant past is not to be controlled by logic, it is a gut feeling that can be surprisingly strong and can last.

Not trying to be argumentative; due diligence is applicable when agreeing or not to an international assignment or indeed returning to your home country, it's even obliquely referred to in the article. Agree minimising culture shock is not just a logical process. One time I returned to my home city, London, after being away for seven years and initially loved the experience of being home. Six months down the track regretted the decision, resigned and departed the UK to never return, 30 years so far.

I always thought it strange when I met so many of your countrymen in HK who spoke about living in London and other parts of your island in the same way. They were professionals in business, as well as the government service sector and MDs too. This was during the 1980s,.and they were complaining about taxes mostly.

But culture shock upon returning to one's home country is something that wears off in no more than a month or two, any longer than this and you got yourself a dose of deep-seated disenchantment with the homeland.

The cure could be Thailand and a Thai Mama.

To be honest I had a great job and social life when I returned to London. The clincher for me was hardly ever seeing sunlight in a three month period, the greyness just got to me...

Edited July 11, 2013 by simple1

[Bcgardener]

People are always going on about Nanny State laws in Australia, I lived in Australia for 30 years (departed 2011) & never experienced laws that impacted my quality of life. Please explain what laws you object to & why.

I have to agree. been in Thailand since 2006 but back to Sydney 3 or 4 times a year for business. The laws are there but don't really impact you on a day to day basis. Only exception is driving. I am always watching my speed , not the road, the cops, radar etc are ruthless, and of course the random breath tests.

I do miss Sydney though, but mainly where our house is on the Northern Beaches.... Ah clean water & no rubbish. Certainly not like most of Thailand's beaches.

[OldChinaHam]

What I sometimes dream, when I dream about returning to America,

Is of first flying to that sane country up above, then riding a BMW bike around Vancouver Island, before being put in an induced coma and shipped down somewhere out in the far off New Mexican desert, among the mountains and whatever good canines might come to my shack, while I eat black beans, water, and unleavened bread of 100% whole wheat with the whole grain included, which I cook on a griddle while I begin making slow overtures to any American natives I happen to see, waiting for my culture shock to subside.

It must be the anticipation of culture shock which scares me most.

Maybe some travel agent from Neptune who can provide the above described travel service will PM me with a quote.

[ghworker2010]

I worked many years in Investment Banking in London and then returned to the nanny state of Australia and yes it was a shock. Working in the same industry in Sydney with the weird sydney people and their uptight personalities drove me insane. Most of them acted like they had a carrot up their bum and some of them held their noses so high that they would nearly drown in a rain storm. Needless to say I did not last long and decided to move to LOS to be amongst more normal farang....

I never heard this about Australia, can you develop ?

Aren't they the coolest in the world ? :-)

No. From an Australian who fled here. You don't get a nanny state (and Australia is Head Nanny of the world) without a population that laps up being controlled - and resents those who aren't subject to internal and external pressures to conform. Oz long ago ceased to be the laid back, friendly and laconic place of cultural lore.

this comment is so true. I prefer the australia of the late 80's / early 90's. Different culture / vibe from the people.

[OldChinaHam]

It would be good to take time to read the article.

"Due diligence" has nothing to do with it.

"The longer the length of the assignment, the higher the stress levels, said Dalton. Expats often talk about “re-entry shock,” and reverse homesickness is quite common."

Culture shock when returning home or to the office you left 3 years prior or 10 years in the distant past is not to be controlled by logic, it is a gut feeling that can be surprisingly strong and can last.

Not trying to be argumentative; due diligence is applicable when agreeing or not to an international assignment or indeed returning to your home country, it's even obliquely referred to in the article. Agree minimising culture shock is not just a logical process. One time I returned to my home city, London, after being away for seven years and initially loved the experience of being home. Six months down the track regretted the decision, resigned and departed the UK to never return, 30 years so far.

I always thought it strange when I met so many of your countrymen in HK who spoke about living in London and other parts of your island in the same way. They were professionals in business, as well as the government service sector and MDs too. This was during the 1980s,.and they were complaining about taxes mostly.

But culture shock upon returning to one's home country is something that wears off in no more than a month or two, any longer than this and you got yourself a dose of deep-seated disenchantment with the homeland.

The cure could be Thailand and a Thai Mama.

To be honest I had a great job and social life when I returned to London. The clincher for me was hardly ever seeing sunlight in a three month period, the greyness just got to me...

This I can fully empathize with.

Are you sure you were not in Taipei during their annual 6 month long every-day-rainy season?

I used to live in Florida, but traveling above Georgia I noticed the same shock as you.

This is also caused by the inclination of the Sun.

I don't know what the angle is in Thailand, but close to 90 degrees most of the tome.

NYC must be half that during January.

I find the higher the sun, the happier we are.

It is a real shock to leave Thailand close to the equator and be let down in Ireland so close to the pole.

Much better to be high in Thailand than low in Siberia too.

I guess we all know about SAD syndrome.

Well, what about some Mad Syndrome when we go from East Asia or SE Asia to home and lose the Sun?

[GuestHouse]

I've been a professional expat for over 20 years, de-mobiliation is an inevitable part every assignment and I've moved between a wide range of culturally/socially and politically disparate locations.

The only time I can say I suffered reverse culture shock was on return from my first extended stay overseas (returning to the UK from a spell as a professional cyclist in Europe) - Even then I don't think culture shock was not the issue, rather my eyes had been opened to 'difference'.

The saying that 'it is not what you see when you are away matters, but what you see when you come back' is, I think, a very basic truth.

I don't say reverse culture shock does not exist, rather I think there are other more important factors to consider - perhaps the most important is the control the expat has over the re-assignment process and the level to which the expat has 'adjusted' to his/her temporary host culture.

I've taken part in demobilising expats (planned de-mobilsiations forced by circumstances - physical/mental health and often behavioural issues).

Most expats demobilising see it as a positive step, change brining opportunity, the end of good times but also of the hard work and pressure they were assigned to deal with But I've also seen guys sobbing and on one occasion on his knees begging not to be demobilised - This latter group are the guys who have real problems settling in elsewhere, be that at home or at ANother duty post.

The marked difference between these two groups is their 'adjustment' to their temporary host culture and the thin line between 'assimilating and loosing oneself in the host culture.

Anyone who bothers reading my posts will undoubtedly have come across me mentioning 'the saffron tinted spectacles' or more frequently 'don't rant against the nanny state back home because that's where you'll go when your life here goes to rat-<deleted>'.

These are not meaningless or flippant observations - The guys I know who have suffered the worst of this 'reverse culture shock' or 'demob-blues' are exactly the same guys who get lost in their temporary host culture - Their world becomes monochromatic - 'Good - Thailand' v 'Bad - Old Country'

Posts along those lines can be found regularly here on TV.

Common sense tells us Thailand is not all good (nor all bad), the old country is not all bad, (nor all good).

Spot that monochromatic 'Good v Bad' outlook and you spot the mindset that has problems adjusting when they eventually pack their bags to go home.

[OldChinaHam]

KeyLargo

"Most expats demobilising see it as a positive step, change brining opportunity, the end of good times but also of the hard work and pressure they were assigned to deal with But I've also seen guys sobbing and on one occasion on his knees begging not to be demobilised - This latter group are the guys who have real problems settling in elsewhere, be that at home or at ANother duty post."

GUESTHOUSE, I really enjoyed reading your more informative post here but...

You gotta be kidding me!

On the knees sobbing? I mean, I believe you but why would you want to retain this kind of unstable employee? What, was it a native girl he was leaving behind?

I guess being demobbed just after world war 2 in the Pacific and from Japan in 1945 thru 1955 was the same. Girls are hard to leave behind.

Remember what happened to Red Buttons.

Good novel too.

[MrWorldwide]

Just one question for the Australians - if the country was so awesome 10-15-20 years ago, why the hell did you leave to live in Asia ?

[MrWorldwide]

Just one question for the Australians - if the country was so awesome 10-15-20 years ago, why the hell did you leave to live in Asia ?

[OldChinaHam]

Just one question for the Australians - if the country was so awesome 10-15-20 years ago, why the hell did you leave to live in Asia ?

Wanderings and wondering is in their nature and in their blood.

If they had not these urges

Their forebears would never have elected to travel down there in the first place.

But it is just these traits that make them less bothered by culture shock.

Have you seen many Australians bothered by culture shock anywhere in the world?

I have yet to see one.

The guys from New Zland too, they never seem too worried by culture shock.

Must be in the blood, too.

Edited July 11, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[stiggy]

The only shocks I experienced after 15 years in Los, returning to UK There is no real social grey areas, between what is accepted or not.

Laws no matter how pedantic are actually enforced, everyone is expected to behave In a certain manner and those not toeing the line are dealt with ( albeit often in a lenient way,for most initial public order offences)

I also enjoy the culture that doesn't openly embrace corruption.

The weather overall is Shiite however, and that in itself was shocking to my privates that have retracted somewhere behind my liver after years of sweltering in shorts.

[PaullyW]

Regarding Thais abroad

I would imagine that it makes sense they are generally that way. As an expat here in Thailand, I don't give a toss when I meet a Thai here who can speak my language. I'm busy with all manner of emotions and difficulty or social withdrawal or work or wondering why the dogs in my neighborhood are so dam_n noisy starting precisely at midnight or struggling to learn the language of my host country or missing my relatives ect ect ect.

Immigrants all over the world have this in common. We are all grumpy, hard working sacrifices to one degree or another.

Edited July 11, 2013 by PaullyW

[OldChinaHam]

Regarding Thais abroad I would imagine that it makes sense they are generally that way. As an expat here in Thailand, I don't give a toss when I meet a Thai here who can speak my language. I'm busy with all manner of emotions and difficulty or social withdrawal or work or wondering why the dogs in my neighborhood are so dam_n noisy starting precisely at midnight or struggling to learn the language of my host country or missing my relatives ect ect ect. Immigrants all over the world have this in common. We are all grumpy, hard working sacrifices to one degree or another.

Yes, agreed, but are we subjected to the same discrimination and bigotry in Thailand as Thais are in the USA or UK or EU or Australia?

[PaullyW]

There are many things I hate about being an expat in Thailand, but this is a good opportunity to mention that there are also things I Really love about Thailand, and they are much more seriously missed when I return home (whichever place that is).

Bum guns

Pretty girls and generally decent looking, not obese people

Laid back atmosphere (although its downside is strong here)

Food

The timelessness that Thai people live their lives by - not rushing through life

Pretty girls

Food

Weather

Simplicity of life

Trips to other regional countries that are quite interesting

The openness that Thais have about what we consider PC type stuff - for instance, it's perfectly fine and happens on occasion that someone in my company approaches me to tell me that I look handsome. Or, I can make comments to some of the sweet things in the department like "wow K. Cutey, did you lose a little weight? You look so sexy 'jing jing'", and there's no problem.

Probably others

Now, as much as like visiting Singapore, after long assignments there, I'm happy to get the h3ll outta that boring place.

[OldChinaHam]

There are many things I hate about being an expat in Thailand, but this is a good opportunity to mention that there are also things I Really love about Thailand, and they are much more seriously missed when I return home (whichever place that is).

Bum guns

Pretty girls and generally decent looking, not obese people

Laid back atmosphere (although its downside is strong here)

Food

The timelessness that Thai people live their lives by - not rushing through life

Pretty girls

Food

Weather

Simplicity of life

Trips to other regional countries that are quite interesting

The openness that Thais have about what we consider PC type stuff - for instance, it's perfectly fine and happens on occasion that someone in my company approaches me to tell me that I look handsome. Or, I can make comments to some of the sweet things in the department like "wow K. Cutey, did you lose a little weight? You look so sexy 'jing jing'", and there's no problem.

Probably others

Now, as much as like visiting Singapore, after long assignments there, I'm happy to get the h3ll outta that boring place.

"I can make comments to some of the sweet things in the department like "wow K. Cutey, did you lose a little weight? You look so sexy 'jing jing'", and there's no problem"

I would say that this is actually not appreciated if the truth were told.

Not in Thailand, anyway.

The people you are kidding might prefer it otherwise.

They will accept this from you a farang, but I do not think this is appreciated as much as you might think.

Sorry, only my opinion, and I may be incorrect, but hopefully not politically.

[scorecard]

I dont entirely disagree with that assessment of Australia in 2013, but basing your opinion on the insane asylum known as Sydney just isnt representative of the rest of the country, IMO. although its definitely getting worse in all our cities. It's also worth noting that a high percentage of Australians were either born overseas or have parents who emigrated to Australia within the last 40 years. That doesn't make the rest of us 'Crocodile Dundee', but Sydney and Melbourne are infinitely more multicultural than the tragic country town I call home. 9 more months and I can kiss it all goodbye - hallelujah ....

(for those who feel I'm being unfair on Sydney, I grew up there and bailed in the 80s when it became apparent that the Lebanese were taking over everything west of Strathfield. I've also lived in Adelaide (2 years) and Brisbane (~20 years) and spent considerable time in Melbourne on various work assignments - Perth remains a complete mystery and I doubt that anyone particularly cares about Hobart anyway )

Here's another angle - I was brought up in a very small quite isolated country town in OZ. I got posted to Singapore not long after I started work, then quickly to Thailand, and I've since worked / lived in 14 Asian countries, but Thailand quickly became home (family / house etc.), 30+ years ago.

In the early days of being in Singapore, then Thailand, I went back to my OZ country town 2 or 3 times a year, but I quickly discovered that I was short of local conversation and I also quickly discovered that it was unwise to start talking about Singapore / Thailand etc., because:

1. It was a one way conversation. My old friends / relations etc., couldn't contribute to the conversation at all and didn't want to contribute to the conversation / talk about other countries, food etc. (this way before my town even had TV let alone internet), they were in reality quite naïve about the world, even the rest of OZ, and they weren't interested.

2. Given the above I learned quickly that there was a strong risk of being labeled ' mr. smarty pants', another reason to just try to stay with local small talk and bite my tongue.

Actually I gave up after my parents passed away, but mostly because I started to often get in your face questions and comments like 'why do you hate Australia' and I got very tired of giving the same routine answer 'I don't hate Australia at all, OZ has many wonderful people, locations, etc etc., but destiny took me to other countries and I discovered that I enjoy learning about other cultures etc.' But many times the explanation fell on deaf and often cynical ears, so enough.

Edited July 11, 2013 by scorecard