Protesters call on Thai Army to stage 'peaceful coup'

[OzMick]

Putting aside the rights and wrongs of the sentiment, it is a bit of a strange part of a quote ""parliamentary dictators who were attempting to bring the Army under their control". Surely the army should be under the control of any Government, which the army go to pains profess at times.

Depends what sort of government controls the country, in a democracy the government and the people have nothing to fear from the military ,as there is proper procedure, balance and checks, so that the army in this case cannot over throw a government, sadly none of this applies to Thailand.

Maybe the army should of done something about it one of the other 17 times they took over.

It is not the role of the army to set up an effective education system, or to install a critical press, though they have tried to enable corruption control agencies.

Maybe if they started shooting corrupt politicians instead of ejecting them from office...........at least we wouldn't see the same old faces heading back to the trough.

Edited July 11, 2013 by OzMick

[smutcakes]

Putting aside the rights and wrongs of the sentiment, it is a bit of a strange part of a quote ""parliamentary dictators who were attempting to bring the Army under their control". Surely the army should be under the control of any Government, which the army go to pains profess at times.

Depends what sort of government controls the country, in a democracy the government and the people have nothing to fear from the military ,as there is proper procedure, balance and checks, so that the army in this case cannot over throw a government, sadly none of this applies to Thailand.

Maybe the army should of done something about it one of the other 17 times they took over.

It is not the role of the army to set up an effective education system, or to install a critical press, though they have tried to enable corruption control agencies.

Maybe if they started shooting corrupt politicians instead of ejecting them from office...........at least we wouldn't see the same old faces heading back to the trough.

Well if they keep taking over and allowing corrupt and ineffectual Governments to be in place, I would question what the hell the point of them taking over is.

[Ricardo]

One coup in twenty years, with power returned 15-months later to an elected government, suggests that things may be slowly improving IMO ? I do hope so.

Yes in theory, the military should be subservient to an elected government, but this hasn't yet been true here, I think you just have to accept that's part of Thailand's culture, that the military are a law unto themselves, whatever democratic-theory says.

And things have been holding quite well for two years now, why would PM-Yingluck or PTP wish to risk upsetting the military, by trying once again (like Thaksin) to post their own nominees in the annual promotions, they really would have to be very desperate or very stupid to attempt that.

Perhaps this latest protest is merely a reminder to the politicians not to think they have unlimited powers, especially with Thaksin demanding to return, and the unwanted future-event ?

[jbrain]

I am not an expert, but may be/possibly in Thailand, Army is under His Majesty rule, NOT the government.

I am only making this suggestion because of something in OP, which is " to prevent any group from bringing His Majesty's military under its control."

From what I understand from the last coup is that certain regiments are loyal to the King, while others are loyal to the government.

[Robby nz]

There can be no such thing as a peaceful coup now that Thaksin has a red army at his disposal.

Should the army try to take over it would mean that the whole of Thailand would be the same as the south is today.

The police would also be a wild card as we saw in the red riots.

They may be able to clear out the present Govt but they would never be able to control the country.

It would also make Thaksin the true fighter for democracy against an army dictatorship.

The Army top brass will know this.

An military coup is not on, let this mob continue on their way to an election loss.

Only problem will be the terrible mess that is left to clean up.

[smedly]

Military coups beget military coups. Look at the history of Thailand and the recent chain of events in Egypt and other places. It would certainly not promote progress towards true democracy --- whatever *that* is

no you are correct but also consider that if the sitting government is attempting to destroy the country - remove checks and balances - show blatent disregard for the courts and the law and are openly trying to move democracy backwards - is being run by a convicted criminal living abroad who is trying to use his money to continue to abuse the Thai people - then the military are very necessary to put a stop the this nonsense

Ozmick is by far the best and most accurate post on this thread

I just wish the military would make changes to the constitution before holding elections - more independent bodies with more power to do their job effectively with more checks and balances placed on government to stop this power hungry corruption feast that haunts the Thai people with so called elected governments - its a joke and laughing stock throughout the world - time to put an end to it once and for all

[jpinx]

ok - challenge time

Name one regime that was overthrown by military coup and emerged as a true democracy -- preferable within living memory

[OzMick]

Maybe the army should of done something about it one of the other 17 times they took over.

It is not the role of the army to set up an effective education system, or to install a critical press, though they have tried to enable corruption control agencies.

Maybe if they started shooting corrupt politicians instead of ejecting them from office...........at least we wouldn't see the same old faces heading back to the trough.

Well if they keep taking over and allowing corrupt and ineffectual Governments to be in place, I would question what the hell the point of them taking over is.

It would seem that both the politicians and people of Thailand are slow learners, and the cultural tendency to admire the wealthy and powerful even when they are obviously criminals is difficult to change.

Like it or not, the threat of a coup hangs over the government like a Sword of Damocles, reminding them there a legal and constitutional limits to their powers. There are better ways of doing it, but they don't exist here (for now).

Edited July 11, 2013 by OzMick

[jayboy]

Maybe the army should of done something about it one of the other 17 times they took over.

It is not the role of the army to set up an effective education system, or to install a critical press, though they have tried to enable corruption control agencies.

Maybe if they started shooting corrupt politicians instead of ejecting them from office...........at least we wouldn't see the same old faces heading back to the trough.

Well if they keep taking over and allowing corrupt and ineffectual Governments to be in place, I would question what the hell the point of them taking over is.

It would seem that both the politicians and people of Thailand are slow learners, and the cultural tendency to admire the wealthy and powerful even when they are obviously criminals is difficult to change.

Like it or not, the threat of a coup hangs over the government like a Sword of Damocles, reminding them there a legal and constitutional limits to their powers. There are better ways of doing it, but they don't exist here (for now).

But the factions that would undertake the coup, that is the reactionary army generals are themselves wealthy, corrupt and powerful criminals.Wouldn't it be rather better for the political opposition to ditch their incompetent and discredited leadership, detoxify their image and present a credible platform at the next general election for the Thai people to consider.

It's obvious that some have become very excited by events in Egypt where an elected government was ejected by the army, and fantasise that this could be replicated in a Thailand coup.Dream on.

[LomSak27]

I really like it when the Loyal Opposition shows their true colors ...

We can't win elections so Please Have A Coup

[petedk]

I agree that a coup is the last thing that Thailand needs and many of you say "wait until the government is voted out by the people" ... the problem is that that won't happen for a long long time.

Any elections in the near future and Pheua Thai will consolidate their power.

This government will eventually control (own) the army, the police and the courts etc. So Thailand will have a dictatorship and it won't be long before that happens.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thai at Heart]

Putting aside the rights and wrongs of the sentiment, it is a bit of a strange part of a quote ""parliamentary dictators who were attempting to bring the Army under their control". Surely the army should be under the control of any Government, which the army go to pains profess at times.

Depends what sort of government controls the country, in a democracy the government and the people have nothing to fear from the military ,as there is proper procedure, balance and checks, so that the army in this case cannot over throw a government, sadly none of this applies to Thailand.

All the checks and balances in the world do not stop an army EVER overthrowing a government. It can happen anywhere. it is just that the system here in Thailand has actually even come to a point to believe that a coup can actually be beneficial for the country. This has the adverse effect of politicians trying even more quickly to feather their pockets thinking that a coup is only ever just around the corner. The more regularly a coup happens, the more audacious and grandiose the theivery of the politicians, perceived to be NOT on the army's side.

The positioning of the army as the benevolant independent saviour of Thailand really is one of the best bits of brain washing/marketing ever concocted.

[Gulfsailor]

ok - challenge time

Name one regime that was overthrown by military coup and emerged as a true democracy -- preferable within living memory

1974 Portugal. Estado novo regime. Edited July 11, 2013 by Gulfsailor

[fasteddie]

Surely, especially in Thailand, calling for a coup against a democratically elected government, can not be legal.

[jpinx]

It'd be nice if Thailand could have a Carnation Revolution, but the circumstances are very different.

It took almost 2 years for the revolutionists to establish elections in Portugal, but it was achieved with the loss of 4 lives - possibly because there was no real opposition to the revolution with the general population. In Thailand it'd be half the population revolting and the other half hanging on to the status quo - something more akin to Egypt, and we know how that's going........

Edited July 11, 2013 by jpinx

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's the people of Thailand -- not the Army -- that need to take their country and their government back...

Ohh wait... that's what they keep doing every time they bring the Thaksins and their clones back.

Maybe someone needs to stage a coup against the Thai people!

[Pi Sek]

It would seem that both the politicians and people of Thailand are slow learners, and the cultural tendency to admire the wealthy and powerful even when they are obviously criminals is difficult to change.

Like it or not, the threat of a coup hangs over the government like a Sword of Damocles, reminding them there a legal and constitutional limits to their powers. There are better ways of doing it, but they don't exist here (for now).

But the factions that would undertake the coup, that is the reactionary army generals are themselves wealthy, corrupt and powerful criminals.Wouldn't it be rather better for the political opposition to ditch their incompetent and discredited leadership, detoxify their image and present a credible platform at the next general election for the Thai people to consider.

It's obvious that some have become very excited by events in Egypt where an elected government was ejected by the army, and fantasise that this could be replicated in a Thailand coup.Dream on.

Yes, those that would undertake the coup are wealthy, corrupt and powerful and the act of performing a coup would make them criminals too.

Yes, the Opposition leadership has been heavily discredited, whether it be fair or unfair, and I agree that the Democrats should not have re-elected him as their party's leader. I would disagree that he is incompetent, but agree that he faces a disadvantage in future elections due to the stigma of past events. I suspect he would agree, hence his resignation after the last elections.

And yes, some pro-coup elements see recent events in Egypt as vindication for their calls for a coup here. However, history is not on your side with regards to whether it will or won't be replicated here. The Egyptian army has a checkered history with regards to corruption and power-mongering there too. The Egyptian anti-Morsi protesters wanted him out for "corruption and incompetence" - exactly the same argument as the anti-Yinglak ones.

However, I think you and I agree that a coup would be disastrous, not to mention marred by a lot of civil strife.

[Thai at Heart]

It's the people of Thailand -- not the Army -- that need to take their country and their government back...

Ohh wait... that's what they keep doing every time they bring the Thaksins and their clones back.

Maybe someone needs to stage a coup against the Thai people!

If the people really dare to that, the army would stop them anyway. It is all a balancing act. This never was meant to create a country for the benefit of the people.

No one on any side wants the man on the street to really get too involved in politics, hence the horrendous media and defamation laws. The army would like all sides of the political fence to take care of them and turn a blind eye to their profiteering and wrongdoing, and in return they let the politicians take care of their own businesses first and then rob the country either quickly and massively, or slowly in dribs and drabs. The moment the balance of the pie all gets out of kilter, or someone steps too much into someone elses realm of influence, all hell breaks loose.

If the people really took the country back, the first thing they would do, would be to put the army under their control, and that is never ever going to happen.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If the people really took the country back, the first thing they would do, would be to put the army under their control, and that is never ever going to happen.

Ahh.... but we can still dream.....

Of course, the second thing they might do would be to kick out all us pesky farangs who are the source of all that is wrong with this country... because it's surely not the Thais' fault.

Edited July 11, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lee b]

What is a 'peaceful coup' ??

Edited July 11, 2013 by metisdead
Overly large and bold font removed.

[khunken]

IMHO one of the problems with democracy is how to remove an elected government that is out of control. It's just not good enough to wait until the next election, by which time it may be too late. Impeachment? Virtually impossible when the party in power controls the bodies voting on the process.

Thailand is not a fully developed democracy anyway and it is necessary - as OZmick has outlined - to maintain the military at arms length in order to provide the main hurdle to creeping dictatorship. The current government set up is unusual - to put it mildly - in having a convicted criminal dictating government policy and appointments.

However, I don't think that the country has currently reached the point of no return (when it did in 2006) yet. It will if Thaksin is allowed back without serving jail time. There are still some checks & balance bodies maintaining their independence - the CC, Admin court, Ombudsman & a few others.

Corruption in itself is not a good enough reason to remove a party in power but as soon as they move towards absolute power it's time to act.

[Thai at Heart]

IMHO one of the problems with democracy is how to remove an elected government that is out of control. It's just not good enough to wait until the next election, by which time it may be too late. Impeachment? Virtually impossible when the party in power controls the bodies voting on the process.

Thailand is not a fully developed democracy anyway and it is necessary - as OZmick has outlined - to maintain the military at arms length in order to provide the main hurdle to creeping dictatorship. The current government set up is unusual - to put it mildly - in having a convicted criminal dictating government policy and appointments.

However, I don't think that the country has currently reached the point of no return (when it did in 2006) yet. It will if Thaksin is allowed back without serving jail time. There are still some checks & balance bodies maintaining their independence - the CC, Admin court, Ombudsman & a few others.

Corruption in itself is not a good enough reason to remove a party in power but as soon as they move towards absolute power it's time to act.

What is the point in creating a system whereby it is extremely simple to remove a majority government by a democratic process. This in and of itself would create complete policy impossibility. It cuts both ways, as much as anyone may not like PTP, the same system would be used endlessly to remove any government. They need to remove impunity for MP's for crimminal wrongdoing and they need to cut down the amount of party list MP's.

That would be a start at least.

[Scott]

A post with a royal reference has been deleted. Let's just stay away from that topic.

[Roadman]

If one follows one single event reported immediately preceding the 2006 coup it is obvious who the Army answers too.

Agree with the Ozzie Mick on this thread. And good luck to the Baggy Greens tonite.

Coups are not the answer unless the point is hit that the path to democracy is on the point of being steered away from. That has not happened yet but the test of that is about to come in the parliamentary season. In the interim if the Isaanite Reds are ignorant enough to accept ฿500 every 4 years as trade for their and their daughters continued life in servitude to enrich the life styles of these incompetent Shinawatra thieves then they deserve the constant misery that they are being delivered in ever increasing bucket loads of crap.

Edited to remove the quote from post that was removed by Moderators

Edited July 11, 2013 by Roadman

[smutcakes]

If one follows one single event reported immediately preceding the 2006 coup it is obvious who the Army answers too.

Agree with the Ozzie Mick on this thread. And good luck to the Baggy Greens tonite.

Coups are not the answer unless the point is hit that the path to democracy is on the point of being steered away from. That has not happened yet but the test of that is about to come in the parliamentary season. In the interim if the Isaanite Reds are ignorant enough to accept ฿500 every 4 years as trade for their and their daughters continued life in servitude to enrich the life styles of these incompetent Shinawatra thieves then they deserve the constant misery that they are being delivered in ever increasing bucket loads of crap.

Edited to remove the quote from post that was removed by Moderators

The irony of you using the word in bold in your post is a sight to behold.

[animatic]

ok - challenge time

Name one regime that was overthrown by military coup and emerged as a true democracy -- preferable within living memory

1974 Portugal. Estado novo regime.

Romania after Nicolae Ceauşescu fell in '89 comes to mind now too. And Vaclav Havel lead a successful democracy. Havel was the ninth and last president of Czechoslovakia (1989–1992) and the first president of the Czech Republic (1993–2003). And yes there were 'revolutions' but no revolution comes without a coup to turn the corner.

[khunken]

IMHO one of the problems with democracy is how to remove an elected government that is out of control. It's just not good enough to wait until the next election, by which time it may be too late. Impeachment? Virtually impossible when the party in power controls the bodies voting on the process.

Thailand is not a fully developed democracy anyway and it is necessary - as OZmick has outlined - to maintain the military at arms length in order to provide the main hurdle to creeping dictatorship. The current government set up is unusual - to put it mildly - in having a convicted criminal dictating government policy and appointments.

However, I don't think that the country has currently reached the point of no return (when it did in 2006) yet. It will if Thaksin is allowed back without serving jail time. There are still some checks & balance bodies maintaining their independence - the CC, Admin court, Ombudsman & a few others.

Corruption in itself is not a good enough reason to remove a party in power but as soon as they move towards absolute power it's time to act.

What is the point in creating a system whereby it is extremely simple to remove a majority government by a democratic process. This in and of itself would create complete policy impossibility. It cuts both ways, as much as anyone may not like PTP, the same system would be used endlessly to remove any government. They need to remove impunity for MP's for crimminal wrongdoing and they need to cut down the amount of party list MP's.

That would be a start at least.

I never mentioned a system where it is 'extremely simple to remove a majority government' - I mentioned that it is virtually impossible to do it by any democratic process. It needs to be possible but not too easy or difficult and it just doesn't exist in Thailand.

Your suggestions are only scratching the surface. My point is that when excessive power - not corruption alone - by a party (or controller of a party) is grabbed, it's time to act & have some mechanism to stop it. Thailand has that extra check in the military & that's why they should not be subservient to the party in power.

[moe666]

As Thailand moves closer to a Marcos style democratic dictatorship run by the Shinawats how long will it take for Thailand to become a mirror image of the broke and ineffectual Philippines. As Thailand gets closer to this model then there will be a coup, a few year away I think.

[MaxLee]

As Thailand moves closer to a Marcos style democratic dictatorship run by the Shinawats how long will it take for Thailand to become a mirror image of the broke and ineffectual Philippines. As Thailand gets closer to this model then there will be a coup, a few year away I think.

Thailand HAS ZERO ZERO ZERO and 3times ZERO democracy, because this Nation has been propaganda brainwashed from the root bottom to the top of their brain cells, that they lost their ability to think straight....

[Stradavarius37]

The amount of "democracy" quotes that people have stolen and misquoted on this thread is staggering...