Thailand has a new popular sensation - Hitler

[SteeleJoe]

My first thought - and possibly all the thought I'm going to give to it - is that I have seen Thai people wear the most breathtakingly inappropriate T shirts over the years (and I mean stuff they absolutely did NOT understand), so I'm not convinced there was any trout at all to any sort of meaning. "Aesthetically pleasing colors and graphic design. English words. Yeah, I'll have that..."

Quite possibly I do agree.

However, if this becomes a big trend, particularly with this holocaust angle, I won't be so sure.

BTW, it took me a while to read the shirt and when I did, I had a bit of a shock reaction to it.

Not because the text wasn't huge, it was HUGE, but because of the viewing angle and that I'm not always bothering reading people's t-shirts.

I noticed the wearer noticed that and didn't seem to be surprised.

So I think that one wearer knew there was something more to his shirt than fashion.

Pattaya is a city with many foreigners that I think would be similarly shocked as me.

I can imagine as a teen it would even be fun to watch foreigners freak out.

I also have to admit that graphically the t-shirt was quite artful if you ignore the words and symbol.

Freaking spellcheck is out of control "trout" should be "thought".

[Robi Schwab]

seeing all of this does bare some logic AND is true relating to latter day norms and understanding of existence there just happens to be another angle to this matter that seems to've been all forgotten about. This of cause now being the fact that KNOWLEDGE is in fact POWER. Thus, on the other side of this same coin it implies that the LACK of knowledge would then of necessity constitute total powerlessness, not so? All I'm trying to say is that maybe, JUST maybe life in Thailand would actually be much BETTER if Thais DON'T know more about this whole Hitler history, don't you think?

I mean, if people doesn't know about something it's highly unlikely they'd try to do it. Yet on the other hand actually knowing about something would most surely render a potentiality of that something been attempted or copied by those who know about it. Sorry, I don't know if I'm making any sense here. Does this thought make any sense to you?

My first thought - and possibly all the thought I'm going to give to it - is that I have seen Thai people wear the most breathtakingly inappropriate T shirts over the years (and I mean stuff they absolutely did NOT understand), so I'm not convinced there was any trout at all to any sort of meaning. "Aesthetically pleasing colors and graphic design. English words. Yeah, I'll have that..."

Quite possibly I do agree.

However, if this becomes a big trend, particularly with this holocaust angle, I won't be so sure.

BTW, it took me a while to read the shirt and when I did, I had a bit of a shock reaction to it.

Not because the text wasn't huge, it was HUGE, but because of the viewing angle and that I'm not always bothering reading people's t-shirts.

I noticed the wearer noticed that and didn't seem to be surprised.

So I think that one wearer knew there was something more to his shirt than fashion.
Pattaya is a city with many foreigners that I think would be similarly shocked as me.

I can imagine as a teen it would even be fun to watch foreigners freak out.

I also have to admit that graphically the t-shirt was quite artful if you ignore the words and symbol.

[SteeleJoe]

seeing all of this does bare some logic AND is true relating to latter day norms and understanding of existence there just happens to be another angle to this matter that seems to've been all forgotten about. This of cause now being the fact that KNOWLEDGE is in fact POWER. Thus, on the other side of this same coin it implies that the LACK of knowledge would then of necessity constitute total powerlessness, not so? All I'm trying to say is that maybe, JUST maybe life in Thailand would actually be much BETTER if Thais DON'T know more about this whole Hitler history, don't you think?

I mean, if people doesn't know about something it's highly unlikely they'd try to do it. Yet on the other hand actually knowing about something would most surely render a potentiality of that something been attempted or copied by those who know about it. Sorry, I don't know if I'm making any sense here. Does this thought make any sense to you?

My first thought - and possibly all the thought I'm going to give to it - is that I have seen Thai people wear the most breathtakingly inappropriate T shirts over the years (and I mean stuff they absolutely did NOT understand), so I'm not convinced there was any trout at all to any sort of meaning. "Aesthetically pleasing colors and graphic design. English words. Yeah, I'll have that..."

Quite possibly I do agree.

However, if this becomes a big trend, particularly with this holocaust angle, I won't be so sure.

BTW, it took me a while to read the shirt and when I did, I had a bit of a shock reaction to it.

Not because the text wasn't huge, it was HUGE, but because of the viewing angle and that I'm not always bothering reading people's t-shirts.

I noticed the wearer noticed that and didn't seem to be surprised.

So I think that one wearer knew there was something more to his shirt than fashion.

Pattaya is a city with many foreigners that I think would be similarly shocked as me.

I can imagine as a teen it would even be fun to watch foreigners freak out.

I also have to admit that graphically the t-shirt was quite artful if you ignore the words and symbol.

Not sure how that works...Hitler didn't need to "know about it" to do it.

You apparently assume that the default position for humans (or is it just Thais?) is one of benign and harmless innocence and without the corruption of ugly examples to influence them, such will they remain. There's little or no evidence that that is the case and much evidence that it is not.

Evil things are done by people and always have been. It didn't come about because they heard about someone else doing it; in fact the assumption that Thais would sink to such depths if they knew of them implies that they are very weak - minded and without any solid moral foundation (apparently we in the west are made of better stuff as the knowledge of that history has not caused us to emulate The Nazis). Perhaps you believe that but even if for the sake of argument one were to agree, the premise isn't a very rational one.

[Jingthing]

I'm not really interested in debating with the assertion that ignorance is an advantage.

However, on a related point to the Hitler thing, the best that can probably be hoped for, and that isn't even likely, is that the Thai education system covers this topic at least superficially and widely so. That step might reduce the Hitler mania fashion or maybe not, but a superficial brushing of the topic certainly wouldn't do much in the way of immunizing Thailand against similar home grown outbreaks of horror.

[hard124get]

I think this is a lack of teaching history in the schools. who is next hero to kids stalin? pol pot? edi amin?

edi amin? And you think it is the Thais who lack education?

[hard124get]

edi amin? Where were you educated?

[hawker9000]

Let this be a lesson to the world, about the true mentality and the lack of respect many Thais have for foreigners, countries and cultures. However, this is an excellent opportunity for business investment as one can see, simple minds can easily be manipulated.

The Japanese have killed more then 13 million Chinese civilians during world war 2 and committed a wide range of war atrocities but have, with the help of the USA and for various reasons known to those involved, been able to keep a lid on that for over 68 years.

Yes, simple minds can easily be manipulated, whether Western or Thai.

What the HECK are you talking about? Japanese atrocities during WWII are no secret. They don't get the same airplay that German atrocities do perhaps, but blame historians (and the death camps) for that, not "the USA". Every schoolboy has heard of the Bataan Death March, and many the "Rape of Nanking" and Japanese medical experiments, the brutal occupation of Manila, execution of Allied POWs, etc. etc. etc., as well. The USA made no effort "manipulate" or "keep a lid on that", and in fact war crimes trials were conducted in Tokyo (and elsewhere in Asia) just as they were in Nuremburg. 920 were actually executed! (The details are certainly not hard to find.)

Now the magnitude of STALIN'S atrocities, before, during, and after the war - THAT'S another story! NOT many have any appreciation of that, in the US or anywhere. Though again, I think left-leaning historians and a generally socialist-sympathizing media are perhaps more to blame than the US government per se.

[Jingthing]

...

Now the magnitude of STALIN'S atrocities, before, during, and after the war - THAT'S another story! NOT many have any appreciation of that, in the US or anywhere.

...

I agree that the history about Stalin and the eastern front of the war is certainly not covered well in the U.S. I can't speak for other countries. I learned most of what I know about that well after my school days.

[hawker9000]

...

Now the magnitude of STALIN'S atrocities, before, during, and after the war - THAT'S another story! NOT many have any appreciation of that, in the US or anywhere.

...

I agree that the history about Stalin and the eastern front of the war is certainly not covered well in the U.S. I can't speak for other countries. I learned most of what I know about that well after my school days.

FDR & Churchill may have had to hold their noses, but Stalin was an "ally" (once Hitler broke the secret pact & attacked him...), and so gets a pass on his atrocities, which actually probably exceeded Hitler's, in terms of numbers dead anyway. Historians generally choose to lionize Stalin instead of exposing him for the monster he was by focusing on Russian war casualties.

[Jingthing]

...

Now the magnitude of STALIN'S atrocities, before, during, and after the war - THAT'S another story! NOT many have any appreciation of that, in the US or anywhere.

...

I agree that the history about Stalin and the eastern front of the war is certainly not covered well in the U.S. I can't speak for other countries. I learned most of what I know about that well after my school days.

FDR & Churchill may have had to hold their noses, but Stalin was an "ally" (once Hitler broke the secret pact & attacked him...), and so gets a pass on his atrocities, which actually probably exceeded Hitler's, in terms of numbers dead anyway. Historians generally choose to lionize Stalin instead of exposing him for the monster he was by focusing on Russian war casualties.

I'm of the liberal bent but objectively in modern history even accounting for fascist Hitler it is easy to argue that communism was even worse. But it's not a competition and it's clear that EXTREME leaders on the right or left are similar in their tendency to create bloodbaths.

[rgs2001uk]

Let this be a lesson to the world, about the true mentality and the lack of respect many Thais have for foreigners, countries and cultures. However, this is an excellent opportunity for business investment as one can see, simple minds can easily be manipulated.

The Japanese have killed more then 13 million Chinese civilians during world war 2 and committed a wide range of war atrocities but have, with the help of the USA and for various reasons known to those involved, been able to keep a lid on that for over 68 years.

Yes, simple minds can easily be manipulated, whether Western or Thai.

What the HECK are you talking about? Japanese atrocities during WWII are no secret. They don't get the same airplay that German atrocities do perhaps, but blame historians (and the death camps) for that, not "the USA". Every schoolboy has heard of the Bataan Death March, and many the "Rape of Nanking" and Japanese medical experiments, the brutal occupation of Manila, execution of Allied POWs, etc. etc. etc., as well. The USA made no effort "manipulate" or "keep a lid on that", and in fact war crimes trials were conducted in Tokyo (and elsewhere in Asia) just as they were in Nuremburg. 920 were actually executed! (The details are certainly not hard to find.)

Now the magnitude of STALIN'S atrocities, before, during, and after the war - THAT'S another story! NOT many have any appreciation of that, in the US or anywhere. Though again, I think left-leaning historians and a generally socialist-sympathizing media are perhaps more to blame than the US government per se.

Every schoolboy has heard of the Bataan Death March, and many the "Rape of Nanking" and Japanese medical experiments, the brutal occupation of Manila, execution of Allied POWs, etc. etc. etc., as well.

Well seeing as I dont know what schoolboys you refer to I can only comment from my own point of view.

I was certainly never taught this in school.

[antfish]

...

Now the magnitude of STALIN'S atrocities, before, during, and after the war - THAT'S another story! NOT many have any appreciation of that, in the US or anywhere.

...

I agree that the history about Stalin and the eastern front of the war is certainly not covered well in the U.S. I can't speak for other countries. I learned most of what I know about that well after my school days.

Did you learn and hear about American war crimes in school?

[Jingthing]

...

Now the magnitude of STALIN'S atrocities, before, during, and after the war - THAT'S another story! NOT many have any appreciation of that, in the US or anywhere.

...

I agree that the history about Stalin and the eastern front of the war is certainly not covered well in the U.S. I can't speak for other countries. I learned most of what I know about that well after my school days.

Did you learn and hear about American war crimes in school?

I'm of a certain age so you might want to be more specific as I am long out of school. If you're referring the controversy over Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, etc. in my case yes. They were presented explicitly as "crimes" but more like here's what happened, you decide. Also the Vietnam era, of course American atrocities were very openly discussed. I am just one person and went to progressive schools. Cheers.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Jingthing

[hawker9000]

...

Now the magnitude of STALIN'S atrocities, before, during, and after the war - THAT'S another story! NOT many have any appreciation of that, in the US or anywhere.

...

I agree that the history about Stalin and the eastern front of the war is certainly not covered well in the U.S. I can't speak for other countries. I learned most of what I know about that well after my school days.

Did you learn and hear about American war crimes in school?

I'm of a certain age so you might want to be more specific as I am long out of school. If you're referring the controversy over Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, etc. in my case yes. They were presented explicitly as "crimes" but more like here's what happened, you decide. Also the Vietnam era, of course American atrocities were very openly discussed. I am just one person and went to progressive schools. Cheers.

Dresden, Nagasaki, and Hiroshima were presented explicitly as "crimes"? You really DID go to a "progressive" (i.e., Marxist; i.e., American-hating) school, as they obviously weren't crimes, though admittedly controversial in the minds of some (an easy judgment for modern-day naysayers who never had to confront the prospect of invading the Japanese home islands...). But - Sherman's March - yeap, learned about that one. My Lai certainly, but that's nothing on the scale of the atrocities routinely committed by the VC or NVA. ARVN atrocities - yeah. Don't think the US Army should really have to answer for most of those, although there might've been some degree of connivance WRT some ('would be more inclined to lay that at the feet of the CIA than American troops though). Only the most ardent America-hater would attempt to even think of comparing any war crimes committed by American troops in WWII with German, Japanese, or Soviet atrocities. The comparison just isn't there except in the fevered imaginations of those who have made it their life's work to trash-talk just about anything American.

Now, if we've got that out of our systems, perhaps we should get back to the Hitler fad in Thailand...

[Jingthing]

Oops. Freudian slip. Correction now: I meant to say they WEREN'T presented explicitly as crimes. Sorry about that. But my political education in school definitely had an anti-war slant and very open to criticism of American policy going back to the days of Jamestown and Plymouth Rock. Funny that you mentioned Sherman's March. That wasn't taught very well to me; not a word of questioning on that policy. (Yankee state.)

You're right. This all is off topic.

But I get the gist of the question.

Many westerners here have been critical of the Thai education system for being biased and incomplete historically.

But of course that can said of all education systems to some degree.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Jingthing

[antfish]

Oops. Freudian slip. Correction now: I meant to say they WEREN'T presented explicitly as crimes. Sorry about that. But my political education in school definitely had an anti-war slant and very open to criticism of American policy going back to the days of Jamestown and Plymouth Rock. Funny that you mentioned Sherman's March. That wasn't taught very well to me; not a word of questioning on that policy. (Yankee state.)

You're right. This all is off topic.

But I get the gist of the question.

Many westerners here have been critical of the Thai education system for being biased and incomplete historically.

But of course that can said of all education systems to some degree.

i see. thank you for answer.

[Jingthing]

OK, I had thought that by now with the new Thailand "Nazi/Hitler Chic" trend growing I might be immune to shock reactions.

But alas, no.

Walking down the street a pleasant dark skinned Thai young man appears working a pancake cart.

Focusing on his shirt in HUGE letters:

WHITE POWER (plus a HUGE Nazi swastika)

Got me again!

My first knee jerk impulse is to confront him.

But of course I don't.

I just stare at him for a few moments and ... wonder.

[EyesWideOpen]

When it comes to bad people who were mass murders, Hitler and Stalin

were small potatoes compared to Mao. Mao caused the death of around

60 million of his OWN people.

But if moronic Thai teenagers want to push people's buttons by wearing

shirts of mass murders, I wonder why we do not see them wearing Mao shirts?

Or would that offend the Thai-Chinese ruling elites here??

[Morakot]

Still going strong this topic...

[Jingthing]

When it comes to bad people who were mass murders, Hitler and Stalin

were small potatoes compared to Mao. Mao caused the death of around

60 million of his OWN people.

But if moronic Thai teenagers want to push people's buttons by wearing

shirts of mass murders, I wonder why we do not see them wearing Mao shirts?

Or would that offend the Thai-Chinese ruling elites here??

We've been over this already.

Mao icons are perceived very differently, largely because Mao is right now glorified by the Chinese government.

[Jingthing]

Still going strong this topic...

Indeed. I reckon the Thai Hitler/Nazi trend has a lot more life in it yet.

[Pattaya28]

Thailand is doing itself no favors allowing this

How does Thailand think Germans feel about this ?

How does Thailand think Jews and Israelis feel about this ?

[GrantSmith]

Never mind our hosts and their fried chicken fetish...

How about the Italians and their Führer's Fiano

http://www.thelocal.it/20130805/italian-hitler-wine-shocks-norwegians

[Jingthing]

Thailand is doing itself no favors allowing this

How does Thailand think Germans feel about this ?

How does Thailand think Jews and Israelis feel about this ?

I don't think these fashion victim teenagers are worrying what Thailand thinks ... or anyone else ...

[rametindallas]

OK, I had thought that by now with the new Thailand "Nazi/Hitler Chic" trend growing I might be immune to shock reactions.

But alas, no.

Walking down the street a pleasant dark skinned Thai young man appears working a pancake cart.

Focusing on his shirt in HUGE letters:

WHITE POWER (plus a HUGE Nazi swastika)

Got me again!

My first knee jerk impulse is to confront him.

But of course I don't.

I just stare at him for a few moments and ... wonder.

I, too, am often shocked at what passes for acceptable in Thailand. A couple of years ago I saw a 14 y.o. girl wearing a T-shirt that read, "Eat my cherry pie". Last year at MBK I saw a Thai wearing a shirt that read, "<deleted> you you f**king <deleted>". I've seen T-shirts with the likeness of Mao, Stalin Osama, Che', Bush, Hitler, and others for sale. I have never seen such vulgar shirts in public in the States. I wonder if the shirts were in Thai language they would be as acceptable. It seems as if it is perfectly acceptable to be offensive to non-Thais as we really don't rate in this society.

[hawker9000]

Still going strong this topic...

Indeed. I reckon the Thai Hitler/Nazi trend has a lot more life in it yet.

The fried chicken place may be something "new", but there's been the Nazi paraphernalia on & off in the street stalls and flea markets for decades. Nothing new really. I expect foreigners buy the crap just as often as do the locals. What's more offensive though is the idea that a school or any other institution would sponsor some event with the kids dressing up as little Nazis, throwing the Nazi salute, etc. If Thais want to do that, well, it's their country. But they should expect, and they deserve, the world's scorn and ridicule for it.

[jamhar]

Interesting Article in Al Jezeerra

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/08/20138916509337563.html

"As a nation that relies on tourism, you cannot afford to have such ignorance.

Truth and education are the best disinfectants against bigotry and lies."

[DocN]

Thailand is doing itself no favors allowing this

How does Thailand think Germans feel about this ?

How does Thailand think Jews and Israelis feel about this ?

Thailand only "feels" and is interested in that, if it concerns Thailand!

Remember the outrage about a few portable loos in Holland?!

[sms747]

Not only will they not know who Hitler was, they would not be able to point to Germany on a map, or maybe not even Malaysia. The ignorance of Thais about the world outside is a disgrace, but you have to blame the 'education' system. Sometimes popular magazines do not help, in the past few moths a popular womans magazine has had the moon landing in 1966, George Washington described as being English and apparently prince Charles cannot be king since he married Camilla.

[sirineou]

I think this is a lack of teaching history in the schools.

A lack of brain cells may also have something to do with it.

objecting to racism by acting racist!I must admit a novel approach