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Chiang Mai, Lamphun proposed as heritage sites


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Posted

CULTURE
Chiang Mai, Lamphun proposed as heritage sites

The Nation

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An ancient pagoda in Lamphun

CHIANG MAI: -- A seminar on the project to push for Chiang Mai and Lamphun to be the UN's Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (Unesco)'s world heritage sites, will be held in the two cities this month.

Assoc Prof Pongdet Chaikup, Dean of Chiang Mai University's Faculty of Fine Art said Unesco academics would be among guest speakers invited to join the seminar.

He said the two cities were distinctive and should be linked in terms of strategic development. While Chiang Mai is known as the city of life and prosperity, a top global tourist destination and gateway to trade and investment, Lamphun is rich in history and culture, dating back 1,300 years.

The seminar in Chiang Mai will be held on July 17 at Chiang Mai university and the one in Lamphun on July 16 at the Haripunchai National Museum.

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-- The Nation 2013-07-15

  • Like 1
Posted

Didn't Thailand withdraw from the World Heritage Convention over the Preah Vihear affair?

Posted

They better hurry, there may be nothing but malls if they don't.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read this article! You beat me to the punch.

Posted (edited)

They better hurry, there may be nothing but malls if they don't.

Strange comment. And strangely popular.

Malls are not built on top of historical sites.

In fact, they are not (allowed to be) built anywhere near them.

Typically the designation applies to a set of temples and monuments, and all the temples and historical sites in/around the old city definitely qualify in my opinion.

In fact, the whole area has been very effectively shielded from over-development.

So.. good plan. thumbsup.gif

Edited by WinnieTheKhwai
Posted

I am on board,

Please get cracking!

We are losing the Jungle and the Land within the city limits.

Once this is gone,

We can also kiss much birdsong in the morning goodbye.

Then, it may only be car and Motosai horns

And napalm in the morning.

Posted

^ While there are also natural heritage sites, this would be a cultural one. So not much to do with forests / national parks.

Thank you for the information.

And how unfortunate we do not have a natural heritage status when we most need it.

What is most needed is something like this to protect what is left of the city through urban planning under the watchful eye of a world org.

We can see the city changing so quickly, and it is the undeveloped land which used to be farmland or jungle which seems to be in danger of being used for commercial or residential construction now.

Once that is gone, then we will probably lose the habitat which attracts the more interesting birds close to CM city.

Of course we will still have these birds but you may need to go further up the mountain to hear them.

And then we will also lose what relatively few quieter walking lanes are still left which wind through these less developed areas.

I do not know the city very well, but even I can see it happening and changing so quickly.

It is almost like a miniature ShangHai, and now there are no green areas in that city as anyone knows.

Posted

A little off topic but so be it.

Chiang Mai has a rich history.

Years ago I went through the Museum in the old city by the three Kings and found it informative.

Not many people in it though.

The big problem was you all most have to carry a flashlight with you to read the information.sad.png

Now that I think about it I think that is just what I will do.smile.png

Posted

absolutely behind Lamphun gaining this well deserved status.. a beautiful old town full of gleaming gems. smile.png

Wat Hariphunchai is totally stunning. Ku Chang Ku Ma is highly intriguing...

Posted

And how unfortunate we do not have a natural heritage status when we most need it.

What is most needed is something like this to protect what is left of the city through urban planning under the watchful eye of a world org.

We can see the city changing so quickly, and it is the undeveloped land which used to be farmland or jungle which seems to be in danger of being used for commercial or residential construction now.

Once that is gone, then we will probably lose the habitat which attracts the more interesting birds close to CM city.

Of course we will still have these birds but you may need to go further up the mountain to hear them.

And then we will also lose what relatively few quieter walking lanes are still left which wind through these less developed areas.

I do not know the city very well, but even I can see it happening and changing so quickly.

It is almost like a miniature ShangHai, and now there are no green areas in that city as anyone knows.

There are basically four kinds of land: National Parks, Government and Military owned land, 'unassigned' land and privately owned land.

Most forests are national parks, and relatively well protected. (Somewhat protected from agricultural use, poaching, etc. but much better protected from development.). Privately owned land is most rice fields you see all around town. That's private land, and can be sold and developed pretty much as people see fit. They own it, so they can do with it what they like.

The risks are in government owned land and unassigned land; a good example is the Night Safari and Royal flora. Unassigned land (no title deeds) is a bit of a free for all; if people squat on it long enough then sooner or later local government issues title deeds, turning it into privately owned land, paving the way for development of any kind. That's what happens for example around Mae On and towards Mae Kampong. (Where Flight of the Gibbon is). It's also quite remote, so you're not seeing totally crazy development; people build houses, homestays and resorts.

I agree that designated green areas within the (extended) town area would be a very good idea. Government does buy up land for road construction, they could buy up land for parks, too. They do build parks sometimes on land that's already government owned (Royal Flora, Rama 9 park) but they could do a lot better.

Posted

TAT had us put together this short piece on Lamphun for them last year:

http://www.cpamedia.com/article.php?pg=features&aid=120618112954

Wiang Yong, across the covered bridge, is interesting too. Settled mainly by deportees from Muang Yong (in what is now Shan State) at the beginning of the 19th century, it has its own little museum (Pipitapan Yong) and lots of weaving looms.

An excellent article.

thank you

Posted

TAT had us put together this short piece on Lamphun for them last year:

http://www.cpamedia.com/article.php?pg=features&aid=120618112954

Wiang Yong, across the covered bridge, is interesting too. Settled mainly by deportees from Muang Yong (in what is now Shan State) at the beginning of the 19th century, it has its own little museum (Pipitapan Yong) and lots of weaving looms.

That does look attractive..

I'd almost move there, but Lamphun remains a bit of a non-starter due to the lack of places selling a reasonable hamburger. And there is nothing that you could call a shopping mall.

Posted

re

Wiang Yong, across the covered bridge

here ya go smile.png

and there are some beautifull temples / monuments there but ive no idea what they were called sad.png

dave2

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  • Like 1
Posted

The Lamphun/PaSang/Sanpatong/Chomthong areas are largely populated by Yong descendents. Anybody have an idea when most arrived.

If deported from Muang Yong in Burma, then why were they deported??

Posted

It was soon after the re-population of Chiang Mai by Chao Kawila. He had a policy - common in mainland Southeast Asia at the time - of gathering in people from surrounding muang to populate the central city area - in this case Chiang Mai - and to depopulate the territory between rival city states at the same time.

In this case he settled mainly Tai Khoen from Kengtung north of the Old City moat and along Wua Lai. Tai Lu were settled in the Tippanet area. Tai Yong were about the last to be resettled, around 1804-1809, mainly (but not exclusively) in Lamphun. My wife is a Yong, and when I first met her some 18 years ago she could exchange a few words of Yong (essentially akin to Tai Lu) with an old lady, 90 plus years, who sold chicken's feet in the Old City.

Posted

On the subject of forced migrations in the early 19th century, it might be of interest to note that the neighbouring Wat Muang Guy and Wat Muang Saht communities were founded by war captives from those respective towns in the Shan States.

Holt Hallett [A thousand Miles on an Elephant in the Shan States. reprint, White Lotus 1988] the British civil engineer whose railway survey maps of 1876 include one that shows Chiang Mai and vicinity with "Muang Kai" and "Muang Kat" prominent where they are located to this day.

Before the Gymkhana Club was established in 1898 its golf course and former horse racing track were part of the old Muang Guy community.

Other areas near Chiang Mai were settled by displaced people as well, and it would be interesting to know more about them.

Posted (edited)

More info then:

Ancient Chiang Mai (42)

Traditional Temple Communities

Between 1775 and 1797, following the expulsion of the Burmese from Chiang Mai by Chao Kawila of Lampang, the city was deliberately abandoned for just over two decades and became ‘the haunt of tigers and wild elephants’. The main reason this drastic policy was implemented by Kawila and his Siamese ally King Thaksin (1767-82) was lack of people. Put simply, in 18th century Lan Na, as in much of contemporaneous Southeast Asia, control of population was more important than control of territory, and Kawila was best able to deny Chiang Mai to his Burmese foes by moving the already sadly diminished city population to other centres, like Lampang and Lamphun, further to the south.

By 1797, however, the situation on the ground had improved in favour of the Thais, and – backed by King Phra Phuttayotfa (Rama I, 1782-1809) – Kawila felt strong enough to begin the resettlement of the city, populating it not just with the remnants of its original inhabitants, but with other peoples, brought and forcibly resettled from elsewhere in the Lan Na-Burma borderlands. This was the essence of the policy called by Kawila ‘putting vegetables into baskets, and people into cities’. As a geo-political strategy it worked well, having the dual advantage of building up Kawila’s power base in southern and central Lan Na, while at the same time creating a broad swathe of largely depopulated territory between him and his Burmese rivals further to the west of the Salween River.

The questions arise, who were these resettled deportees, where did they come from, and are they still distinguishable in any way as distinct communities? Nowadays most indigenous people of Chiang Mai will identify themselves as Khon Mueang or ‘People of the Principalities’, that is ‘Northerners’ first and foremost, and indeed this is the designation – Khon Nuea or ‘People of the North’ – by which they are generally known to other Thais, especially those from Bangkok and the south. But if pressed a little further about their origins, many will explicitly recall that their ancestors came from some specific region of Shan State, or elsewhere within Burma.

Fortunately we have clear textual evidence of this in the form of a manuscript written in Thai at some time during the reign of King Chulalongkorn (Rama V, 1852-1902) that was deposited at Wat Chedi Luang and subsequently published by the University of Chiang Mai. It is a simple and rewarding matter to follow this list, visit the temple communities named, and speak to the locals in the area, many of whom are well aware of their past history and pleased to discuss times past.

The peoples swept up by Kawila’s forces at the end of the 18th century and during the first decade or so of the 19th century include Bamar (ethnic Burmans), Pa-O (Taungthu or ‘Black Karen’), Karen and Mon, several groups of ethnic Tai, including Tai Yai (Shan), Tai Khoen, Tai Lü and Tai Yawng, as well as a group identified by the 19th century manuscript as Tai Chiang Saen – natives of Chiang Saen District in Chiang Rai Province which is today very much a part of Thailand, but which functioned as the last outpost of Burmese power in the north until it was captured and sacked by Chao Kawila in 1804.

As newcomers to Chiang Mai, very few of these people were permitted to settle within the Old City walls. Rather, following established custom both in Lan Na and in neighbouring Siam, the more trusted deportees were resettled on the outskirts of the city (or even further afield, for example in Lamphun), while those deemed less trustworthy were assigned localities closer to the walled city and the palace, seat of Kawila and subsequent chao Chiang Mai, where their activities and loyalties were more easily monitored.

Least trustworthy, almost by definition, were the ethnic Bamar. They were settled in and around Jaeng Katam, the Old City’s southeast bastion, where four Bamar temples are identified in the Wat Chedi Luang manuscript, all of which are still extant today. These include Wat Sai Mun Muang and Wat Sai Mun Myanmar within the Old City, as well as Wat Muang Man and Wat Phuak Chang just south and east of Jaeng Katam. It seems no coincidence that the former Burmese Consulate, until recently better known as the Ling Yim or ‘Smiling Monkey’ Restaurant, was also established in this area. Other groups of Bamar were settled further south and east, beyond the Kamphaeng Din or ‘Earthen Ramparts’ by Wat Hua Fai in Chang Khlan and Wat Upakhut to the west of the Chiang Mai Governor’s Mansion on Thapae Road.

More trusted by far were the Tai Yai or Shan, who were settled to the north of the Old City in an area still clearly defined as Shan by many of its inhabitants, at Wat Chiang Yeun and Wat Pa Pao to the north of the moat in the area between Jaeng Sri Phum (the Old City’s northeast bastion), and Pratu Chang Phuak or ‘White Elephant Gate’. A third area of Shan settlement is identified as Wat Gutao on Chang Phuak Soi 6, a temple associated with the former Burmese administration, and thought to house the ashes of King Nawrahtaminsaw (1578-1607), the first Burmese ruler of Chiang Mai, and possibly his wife and sons.

The Tai Khoen, a group originating from around Chianghung [Kengtung] in eastern Shan State who were also deemed trustworthy by Chao Kawila, were settled to the south of the Old City in Nantaram District, particularly at Wat Nantaram, Wat Dao Duang and Wat That Kham, as well as at Wat Yang Kuang, a temple currently being re-established that was clearly named after Wat Yanggong in Chianghung. The Tai Khoen community in and around this area, still known colloquially as ‘Ban Khoen’, continues to flourish along both sides of Thanon Suriyawong and remains particularly vibrant and conscious of its origins today.

Another comparatively trusted ethnic Tai group resettled at this time were the Tai Lü of Sipsongpanna, the ‘Twelve Thousand Rice Fields’ today divided between Xishuangbanna Dai Autonomous Prefecture in China’s Yunnan Province, and northern Laos. The Lü, who were and remain noted silversmiths, settled in and around Thippanet area, particularly in the vicinity of Wat Phuak Pia and Pratu Haiya.

Similarly the group identified as Tai Chiang Saen in the Wat Chedi Luang manuscript – but who would today be regarded as Thai citizens of Chiang Rai Province – were resettled after 1804 to the east of the Old City, between the moats and the earthen ramparts, around Wat Chang Khong, Wat Loi Khro and Wat Pan Thong, as well as in the vicinity of Wat Mahawan. The latter temple, which dates from at least the 17th century, is thought to have been founded during the Burmese occupation, and has a distinctively Mandalay-style Buddha image in the 19th century Viharn Lang Pracho To.

Two other non-Tai groups resettled in Chiang Mai at the beginning of the 19th century were the Mon and the Karen, both traditionally hostile to the ruling Bamar people of Burma, and therefore generally considered to be natural allies of the Tai, whether in Lan Na, or further to the south in Siam.

The Mon, often associated with water and boats (notably in their main Bangkok areas of settlement at Pak Kret and Phra Padaeng), were settled around Wat Chai Mongkhon on the west bank of the River Ping just north of Charoen Prathet Soi 9. Today, however, there is precious little to suggest a Mon connection with this wealthy and rather over-elaborate temple which clearly receives substantial donations from the city’s wealthy Sino-Thai community. It is interesting to note that Mon often worked as boatmen in this area, and that today ‘river trips’ on the Maenam Ping start and end at the Wat Chai Mongkhon river landing.

The Karen, never an urban people but rather long-established in the hills to the west towards Mae Hong Son and the Burmese frontier, have traditionally been associated with forestry work and elephant husbandry, and were settled in and around San Dok Tho in the Chang Khian area, near the foot of Doi Suthep to the northwest of the city.

More puzzling – and requiring further investigation – are the Pa-O or Taungthu community, identified in the Wat Chedi Luang manuscript as established around Wat Nong Kham on the northern side of Chang Moi Road, and still closely associated with the same temple today. The Pa-O homeland lies to the south and east of Taunggyi, the capital of Shan State, far from the traditional frontiers of Lan Na, though some also live closer to hand, in Burma’s Karen and Karenni States. It is possible that Kawila’s forces may have seized and resettled some of these Pa-O on early 19th-century trans-Salween raids, but it is also possible that the ancestors of Chiang Mai’s small Pa-O community migrated here later on, in the mid- to late-19th century, at the height of Lan Na’s teak trade via British-ruled Burma.

Finally, mention should be made of the Tai Yawng or Yong, originally hailing from Mueang Yawng [Mong Yong] in the north-east corner of Burma’s Shan State, close to the Mekong River and the frontiers with Laos and China. The Yawng, who are close kin to the Tai Lü, were among the last people to be ‘swept up’ by Chao Kawila in the first decade of the 18th century, and while some were settled in and around Chiang Mai, most were resettled in nearby Lamphun, on the left bank of the Kuang River. Today most Lamphun Yawng are clustered around Wat Ton Kaew in the area still known colloquially as ‘Ban Yawng’, and more formally as ‘Tambon Wiang Yawng’ (Yawng City District) where a Tai Yawng Folk Museum has been established.

Andrew Forbes / David Henley, CPA Media

Edited by dru2
  • Like 2
Posted

More info then:

Ancient Chiang Mai (42)

Traditional Temple Communities

Between 1775 and 1797, following the expulsion of the Burmese from Chiang Mai by Chao Kawila of Lampang, the city was deliberately abandoned for just over two decades and became ‘the haunt of tigers and wild elephants’. The main reason this drastic policy was implemented by Kawila and his Siamese ally King Thaksin (1767-82) was lack of people. Put simply, in 18th century Lan Na, as in much of contemporaneous Southeast Asia, control of population was more important than control of territory, and Kawila was best able to deny Chiang Mai to his Burmese foes by moving the already sadly diminished city population to other centres, like Lampang and Lamphun, further to the south.

By 1797, however, the situation on the ground had improved in favour of the Thais, and – backed by King Phra Phuttayotfa (Rama I, 1782-1809) – Kawila felt strong enough to begin the resettlement of the city, populating it not just with the remnants of its original inhabitants, but with other peoples, brought and forcibly resettled from elsewhere in the Lan Na-Burma borderlands. This was the essence of the policy called by Kawila ‘putting vegetables into baskets, and people into cities’. As a geo-political strategy it worked well, having the dual advantage of building up Kawila’s power base in southern and central Lan Na, while at the same time creating a broad swathe of largely depopulated territory between him and his Burmese rivals further to the west of the Salween River.

The questions arise, who were these resettled deportees, where did they come from, and are they still distinguishable in any way as distinct communities? Nowadays most indigenous people of Chiang Mai will identify themselves as Khon Mueang or ‘People of the Principalities’, that is ‘Northerners’ first and foremost, and indeed this is the designation – Khon Nuea or ‘People of the North’ – by which they are generally known to other Thais, especially those from Bangkok and the south. But if pressed a little further about their origins, many will explicitly recall that their ancestors came from some specific region of Shan State, or elsewhere within Burma.

Fortunately we have clear textual evidence of this in the form of a manuscript written in Thai at some time during the reign of King Chulalongkorn (Rama V, 1852-1902) that was deposited at Wat Chedi Luang and subsequently published by the University of Chiang Mai. It is a simple and rewarding matter to follow this list, visit the temple communities named, and speak to the locals in the area, many of whom are well aware of their past history and pleased to discuss times past.

The peoples swept up by Kawila’s forces at the end of the 18th century and during the first decade or so of the 19th century include Bamar (ethnic Burmans), Pa-O (Taungthu or ‘Black Karen’), Karen and Mon, several groups of ethnic Tai, including Tai Yai (Shan), Tai Khoen, Tai Lü and Tai Yawng, as well as a group identified by the 19th century manuscript as Tai Chiang Saen – natives of Chiang Saen District in Chiang Rai Province which is today very much a part of Thailand, but which functioned as the last outpost of Burmese power in the north until it was captured and sacked by Chao Kawila in 1804.

As newcomers to Chiang Mai, very few of these people were permitted to settle within the Old City walls. Rather, following established custom both in Lan Na and in neighbouring Siam, the more trusted deportees were resettled on the outskirts of the city (or even further afield, for example in Lamphun), while those deemed less trustworthy were assigned localities closer to the walled city and the palace, seat of Kawila and subsequent chao Chiang Mai, where their activities and loyalties were more easily monitored.

Least trustworthy, almost by definition, were the ethnic Bamar. They were settled in and around Jaeng Katam, the Old City’s southeast bastion, where four Bamar temples are identified in the Wat Chedi Luang manuscript, all of which are still extant today. These include Wat Sai Mun Muang and Wat Sai Mun Myanmar within the Old City, as well as Wat Muang Man and Wat Phuak Chang just south and east of Jaeng Katam. It seems no coincidence that the former Burmese Consulate, until recently better known as the Ling Yim or ‘Smiling Monkey’ Restaurant, was also established in this area. Other groups of Bamar were settled further south and east, beyond the Kamphaeng Din or ‘Earthen Ramparts’ by Wat Hua Fai in Chang Khlan and Wat Upakhut to the west of the Chiang Mai Governor’s Mansion on Thapae Road.

More trusted by far were the Tai Yai or Shan, who were settled to the north of the Old City in an area still clearly defined as Shan by many of its inhabitants, at Wat Chiang Yeun and Wat Pa Pao to the north of the moat in the area between Jaeng Sri Phum (the Old City’s northeast bastion), and Pratu Chang Phuak or ‘White Elephant Gate’. A third area of Shan settlement is identified as Wat Gutao on Chang Phuak Soi 6, a temple associated with the former Burmese administration, and thought to house the ashes of King Nawrahtaminsaw (1578-1607), the first Burmese ruler of Chiang Mai, and possibly his wife and sons.

The Tai Khoen, a group originating from around Chianghung [Kengtung] in eastern Shan State who were also deemed trustworthy by Chao Kawila, were settled to the south of the Old City in Nantaram District, particularly at Wat Nantaram, Wat Dao Duang and Wat That Kham, as well as at Wat Yang Kuang, a temple currently being re-established that was clearly named after Wat Yanggong in Chianghung. The Tai Khoen community in and around this area, still known colloquially as ‘Ban Khoen’, continues to flourish along both sides of Thanon Suriyawong and remains particularly vibrant and conscious of its origins today.

Another comparatively trusted ethnic Tai group resettled at this time were the Tai Lü of Sipsongpanna, the ‘Twelve Thousand Rice Fields’ today divided between Xishuangbanna Dai Autonomous Prefecture in China’s Yunnan Province, and northern Laos. The Lü, who were and remain noted silversmiths, settled in and around Thippanet area, particularly in the vicinity of Wat Phuak Pia and Pratu Haiya.

Similarly the group identified as Tai Chiang Saen in the Wat Chedi Luang manuscript – but who would today be regarded as Thai citizens of Chiang Rai Province – were resettled after 1804 to the east of the Old City, between the moats and the earthen ramparts, around Wat Chang Khong, Wat Loi Khro and Wat Pan Thong, as well as in the vicinity of Wat Mahawan. The latter temple, which dates from at least the 17th century, is thought to have been founded during the Burmese occupation, and has a distinctively Mandalay-style Buddha image in the 19th century Viharn Lang Pracho To.

Two other non-Tai groups resettled in Chiang Mai at the beginning of the 19th century were the Mon and the Karen, both traditionally hostile to the ruling Bamar people of Burma, and therefore generally considered to be natural allies of the Tai, whether in Lan Na, or further to the south in Siam.

The Mon, often associated with water and boats (notably in their main Bangkok areas of settlement at Pak Kret and Phra Padaeng), were settled around Wat Chai Mongkhon on the west bank of the River Ping just north of Charoen Prathet Soi 9. Today, however, there is precious little to suggest a Mon connection with this wealthy and rather over-elaborate temple which clearly receives substantial donations from the city’s wealthy Sino-Thai community. It is interesting to note that Mon often worked as boatmen in this area, and that today ‘river trips’ on the Maenam Ping start and end at the Wat Chai Mongkhon river landing.

The Karen, never an urban people but rather long-established in the hills to the west towards Mae Hong Son and the Burmese frontier, have traditionally been associated with forestry work and elephant husbandry, and were settled in and around San Dok Tho in the Chang Khian area, near the foot of Doi Suthep to the northwest of the city.

More puzzling – and requiring further investigation – are the Pa-O or Taungthu community, identified in the Wat Chedi Luang manuscript as established around Wat Nong Kham on the northern side of Chang Moi Road, and still closely associated with the same temple today. The Pa-O homeland lies to the south and east of Taunggyi, the capital of Shan State, far from the traditional frontiers of Lan Na, though some also live closer to hand, in Burma’s Karen and Karenni States. It is possible that Kawila’s forces may have seized and resettled some of these Pa-O on early 19th-century trans-Salween raids, but it is also possible that the ancestors of Chiang Mai’s small Pa-O community migrated here later on, in the mid- to late-19th century, at the height of Lan Na’s teak trade via British-ruled Burma.

Finally, mention should be made of the Tai Yawng or Yong, originally hailing from Mueang Yawng [Mong Yong] in the north-east corner of Burma’s Shan State, close to the Mekong River and the frontiers with Laos and China. The Yawng, who are close kin to the Tai Lü, were among the last people to be ‘swept up’ by Chao Kawila in the first decade of the 18th century, and while some were settled in and around Chiang Mai, most were resettled in nearby Lamphun, on the left bank of the Kuang River. Today most Lamphun Yawng are clustered around Wat Ton Kaew in the area still known colloquially as ‘Ban Yawng’, and more formally as ‘Tambon Wiang Yawng’ (Yawng City District) where a Tai Yawng Folk Museum has been established.

Andrew Forbes / David Henley, CPA Media

Fascinating article, and another example of why you are starting to be considered the most distinguished of the living Chiang Mai historians.

Concerning the Rama V era manuscript "that was deposited at Wat Chedi Luang and subsequently published by the University of Chiang Mai". Two questions:

1. Where in Chiang Mai is it readily available? The CMU Bookstore? Online?

2. Has it been translated into English?

Thanks for any information about this.

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