Chulalongkorn Fine and Applied Arts Faculty dean apologizes for Hitler graduation mural

[jimbeam1]

Many complaining about this may remember Price Harry of the UK Parading around at a Uni party in Nazi regalia.

I presume he knew what he was doing!

totally agreed on that , unacceptable from Prince Harry ...

You mean THE Prince Harry?

SURELY NOT !

Hes one of us ... well educated ( in a 'collage' no less 555) and sensitive to others feelings like all us TV posters. To suggest he saw anything possibly humorous in Hitlers strange posturing , instead of sobbing daily into his handkerchief as The Wiesenthal Centre mandates ( while conveniently ignoring the continuing persecution of minorities by todays Israeli-Jews), would be a travesty indeed....

I do hope none of the 'outraged' here have never fancy dressed as Attila the Hun or Napolean or a cowboy .... all represent genocide for some ethnic group or other after all..

Whoever said that Prince Harry was an intelligent, culturally sensitive bloke?

He must be. His father was a Captain in the Guards?

jb1

[Netizen]

Just out of curiosity, what's the Thai word for "benightedness"?

Farang.

[Jingthing]

What's the lesson here....

They need to bone up and TEACH what Hitler (mass murderer/terrorist/torturer/world warlord) did and the 1,000,000's killed/exterminated..+ dead soldiers and civilians ...just as a lesson from this mural....

Let's see - you have Hitler up there with a group of comic book super heros.....get real.....

Don't they have history classes? Even if not a current event the backlash from this should light the fire of truth. Just one sheet of statistics the students would be graded on would suffice so the truth be known.

Course; genocide 101. Maybe after getting a degree in genocide studies (if it doesn't make them suicidal) they can pursue careers as guides in genocide museums.

p.s. "bone up" may have a different connotation in USA,

That's silly. Of course a basic modern history course would include WW2 and the holocaust.

[jimbeam1]

Many complaining about this may remember Price Harry of the UK Parading around at a Uni party in Nazi regalia.

I presume he knew what he was doing!

totally agreed on that , unacceptable from Prince Harry ...

You mean THE Prince Harry?

SURELY NOT !

Hes one of us ... well educated ( in a 'collage' no less 555) and sensitive to others feelings like all us TV posters. To suggest he saw anything possibly humorous in Hitlers strange posturing , instead of sobbing daily into his handkerchief as The Wiesenthal Centre mandates ( while conveniently ignoring the continuing persecution of minorities by todays Israeli-Jews), would be a travesty indeed....

I do hope none of the 'outraged' here have never fancy dressed as Attila the Hun or Napolean or a cowboy .... all represent genocide for some ethnic group or other after all..

Whoever said that Prince Harry was an intelligent, culturally sensitive bloke?

He must be. His father was a Captain in the Guards?

jb1

[keemapoot]

Just out of curiosity, what's the Thai word for "benightedness"?

Farang.

I wonder if a farang can be benighted, and if that confers any special visa treatment or other perks?

[Netizen]

Just out of curiosity, what's the Thai word for "benightedness"?

Farang.

I wonder if a farang can be benighted, and if that confers any special visa treatment or other perks?

Yes, I believe that is so. Benighting of Farangs causes an extreme lengthening of the toes and a shrillness and urgency in their complaints.

p.s. Also results in intensification of smarmyness and self righteousness.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Netizen

[lungmi]

Thailand has his Jews, the Hilltribe people.

[Potosi]

I don't know how many times I stumbled upon pics like this? A million?

It's apparently appropriate in American politics, and why should they care about the sensitivities of Europeans and Jews?

[Pib]

All I can say is what I said in this ThaiVisa post which also had a Hitler theme: Link

[ETatBKK]

4. No one in Thailand in a position of moral authority, or leadership said anything. One would think that one of these holy men monks would have suggested that such a display was inappropriate. No political leader spoke out. One can forgive some Thai politicians as they are inherently ignorant, but Yingluck was educated in the USA, albeit for a short time and Abhisit grew up in the UK and knows all about WWII. His grammar school has a memorial for those who gave their lives in WWII and he attended a memorial event to commemorate Nov. 11 every year while he was a student.

The Thais still do not get it, and the idiocy of the behaviour had to be addressed by foreigners.

sadly to say, THEY DON'T :- (

very few they sense a wrong doing, but they don't have the sensitivity of what's going wrong.

I followed 200+ posts from the first one, whatever we scream or shout, Thai would consider this is just our bad behaviour. I would believe that this incident won't even capture on any Thai media.

[catweazle]

A Swiss proverb says: To be a fool at the right time is also an art

Think this sums it up pretty well, aye?

[catweazle]

This is even better - a Thai proverb says: Wait until the tree has fallen before you jump over it.

Looks like these arts faculty people got it all wrong and thought they should wait right there, under the tree (most likely doing the "Hitler Gruss") after cutting it

[ETatBKK]

Someone above mentioned "Hitler Chic." Apparently it has become a popular meme among the youth. Google it and you get some interesting articles. Here is one:

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2013/0713/Thailand-has-a-new-popular-sensation-Hitler

I for one would like to talk to the students who did the mural. Just perhaps they knew what they were doing.

I don't know who actually did the mural ( yet it is not very important ), and I already prepared some pictures and would discuss with the students their social sensitivity on the subject.

I am sure students ( even ajarns there ) won't like it, yet this is my position to bring the message to the youngsters.

[Thai at Heart]

Maybe the Thais have been desensitized by the more recent history of slaughter of 3 million Vietnamese, Cambodians and Lao and the even more recent slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

I'd say the chances are better that they just don't give a sh!t.

They people upset aren't Thais after all. They'll probably aplogize profusely (already have actually) while thinking those demanding it are stupid.

Screw the apologies, learn something would be enough.....

Thais have learned from this. They learned farangs have very long toes.

And we are allergic to zyklon b. I will survive tomorrow, and wai my way through the day. And wonder why they don't care....

It's OK. The neo Nazis aren't taking over Thailand, but as a friend of mine asked today.

What is wrong with these people. What the hell do they have to be so proud of? So far, after 19 years in country, I've realised, less and less.

Edited July 15, 2013 by angiud
Quotes fixed

[Netizen]

Thais have learned from this. They learned farangs have very long toes.

And we are allergic to zyklon b. I will survive tomorrow, and wai my way through the day. And wonder why they don't care....

It's OK. The neo Nazis aren't taking over Thailand, but as a friend of mine asked today.

What is wrong with these people. What the hell do they have to be so proud of? So far, after 19 years in country, I've realised, less and less.

I hope that is less and less about more and more until he knew nothing about everything.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Netizen

[Thai at Heart]

Maybe the Thais have been desensitized by the more recent history of slaughter of 3 million Vietnamese, Cambodians and Lao and the even more recent slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

I'd say the chances are better that they just don't give a sh!t.

They people upset aren't Thais after all. They'll probably aplogize profusely (already have actually) while thinking those demanding it are stupid.

Screw the apologies, learn something would be enough.....

Thais have learned from this. They learned farangs have very long toes.

And we are allergic to zyklon b. I will survive tomorrow, and wai my way through the day. And wonder why they don't care....

It's OK. The neo Nazis aren't taking over Thailand, but as a friend of mine asked today.

What is wrong with these people. What the hell do they have to be so proud of? So far, after 19 years in country, I've realised, less and less.

I hope that is less and less about more and more.

Every day is a new enlightenment.... If there was a nirvana of ignorance, stupidity, duplicity and corruption, maybe it's here. At the end of it all, I still love it, but sometimes it scares me for my kids.

[Netizen]

And we are allergic to zyklon b. I will survive tomorrow, and wai my way through the day. And wonder why they don't care....

It's OK. The neo Nazis aren't taking over Thailand, but as a friend of mine asked today.

What is wrong with these people. What the hell do they have to be so proud of? So far, after 19 years in country, I've realised, less and less.

I hope that is less and less about more and more.

Every day is a new enlightenment.... If there was a nirvana of ignorance, stupidity, duplicity and corruption, maybe it's here. At the end of it all, I still love it, but sometimes it scares me for my kids.

Have you considered the brave new worlds of Iraq, Libya or Egypt?

[Thai at Heart]

And we are allergic to zyklon b. I will survive tomorrow, and wai my way through the day. And wonder why they don't care....

It's OK. The neo Nazis aren't taking over Thailand, but as a friend of mine asked today.

What is wrong with these people. What the hell do they have to be so proud of? So far, after 19 years in country, I've realised, less and less.

I hope that is less and less about more and more.

Every day is a new enlightenment.... If there was a nirvana of ignorance, stupidity, duplicity and corruption, maybe it's here. At the end of it all, I still love it, but sometimes it scares me for my kids.

Have you considered the brave new worlds of Iraq, Libya or Egypt?

Even they don't hang up Hitler as a hero.....

[ayayay]

Try and tell a Thai why it is inappropriate and wrong... and they will just tell you that foreigners have no right to tell them what to do because they were never colonised... their general benightedness knows no bounds...

I bet though, still, there are far more foreigners trying to tell thais what to do, and not do, than Thais going to a foreign country and approach total strangers on the street telling them what to do.

[Thai at Heart]

Try and tell a Thai why it is inappropriate and wrong... and they will just tell you that foreigners have no right to tell them what to do because they were never colonised... their general benightedness knows no bounds...

I bet though, still, there are far more foreigners trying to tell thais what to do, and not do, than Thais going to a foreign country and approach total strangers on the street telling them what to do.

That is just proven by the law of averages.

20mn foreign visitors to Thailand every year. Only 60mn Thais.

[Jingthing]

I don't know how many times I stumbled upon pics like this? A million?

It's apparently appropriate in American politics, and why should they care about the sensitivities of Europeans and Jews?

No it is not the same kind of thing at all.

Pictured is a ridiculous political attack graphic suggesting Obama is as bad as Hitler.

Hitler = Bad. Get it?

The graduation poster clearly shows Hitler among superheroes in a HEROIC pose.

Again, not the same.

Hitler and Nazi images can be used but if they hint as suggesting Hitler was a hero -- you're going to OFFEND many people. Maybe not many Thais though, and there's the rub.

[charmonman]

Can someone please explain the difference in the alleged offensiveness between these awkward Uni students efforts and the countless cartoons, songs, movies and musicals lampooning Hitler over the decades?

This wasn't a lampoon. It was a HEROIC depiction.

Next ...

Err ... not ALL those movies, songs etc ... "Lampooned" him. But latch on to that one category if it makes you happier. The point is ... Hitler has been used as a figure in "entertainment" for decades.

Perhaps the reason Jingthing "latched on to" the category of lampoons is that it was the very category you used in your question. There is a difference between ridiculing the man and depicting him as a fictional figure alongside comic book superheroes who fought for good. Do they not understand he was real person and one of the most evil in the last century? Perhaps if they had depicted him alongside Darth Vader, Lex Luthor, the Riddler and such, and a few others like Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao and Bin Laden it might have at least made a bit more sense?

I find the depiction of Hitler not so much offensive as simply indicative of how completely ignorant the students at Chula who created this idiotic banner are, and as such it reflects pretty badly on the quality of education being provided there and in the country as a whole. I have a feeling they don't even know who one of the central figures of the most important event in the history of the last century was.

[Pib]

I don't know how many times I stumbled upon pics like this? A million?

It's apparently appropriate in American politics, and why should they care about the sensitivities of Europeans and Jews?

Little different here as it's meant to portray Obama as a terrible man bad for the country (and I'm not implying he is)...but who else better to invoke the image of a terrible than an image with the likeness of Hitler. In Thailand they seem to use the Hitler as a super hero or funny cartoon character, which definitely does not portray the image of the evil man Hitler was.

[bangarang]

How long is the mural going to stay up? Are they planning on removing the image of Hitler, or are they going to only apologize and keep the mural up?

[charmonman]

...

The Thais still do not get it, and the idiocy of the behaviour had to be addressed by foreigners.

Which you can bet is totally resented.

Thais are offended by the smarmy feigned superiority of some farangs.

But apparently not by a man who actually promoted the concept of "Aryan" farangs being racially superior to Thais and other "Asiatics" (except the Japanese of course). Had there been a significant ethnic Thai population in Germany at the time, Hitler may very well have sent them all to concentration camps as well.

[rametindallas]

I think the mural is very informative. It clearly show how well Chula educates about history, cultural sensitivity, and how to paint murals.

[jackr]

Someone for got to tell them, Hitler was also anti Asian. Blonde hair and blue eyes only.

Without doing a Google or Wiki, it wasn't just blonde hair and blue eyes only... after all, Hitler himself and his chums had black hair and brown eyes. It was hierarchical, with the pure Aryan, Nordic look being ideal, though he also considered the British to be right up there and tried to get them onside until they told him to eff off through Ribbentrop. You could be right about his dislike for Asians though.

[Beetlejuice]

Several posts refer to blonde hair and blue eyes. If that was the case Hitler and his inner circle would certainly have been excluded from the 'master race' he sought to create.

My grandfather died in Belsen (he fell out of a watchtower) but, seriously, I don't think there was any intended offence in the mural. If one deliberately sets out to hurt someone with ones actions that is a different thing. Better to keep things in perspective

Some people would find a mural depicting George Bush and Tony Bliar repugnant

The stereotypical blonde haired, blue eyed look was the Aryan physical ideal promoted by Nazi propaganda. That doesn't mean that other white "real" Germans (non-Jews, non-blacks, non-Slavik etc.) were not considered as German. Another thing about blonde hair in humans, sometimes young people are blonde and mature as not blonde. This is actually common in my fully Jewish family and that detail I think might have saved my grandmother's life at one point.

Interesting story about your grandfather.

On my mother`s side of the family, my Jewish side, many are blond, blue eyed. Yet on my father`s side, the catholic side, many have brown hair and brown eyes. My mother was blond and blue eyed and grandad had red hair and a red beard. I am blond with brown eyes. But to be honest, who cares?

My mother used to joke with Dad, saying; the Jews were stupid to let a good business like the Catholic religion slip out their hands. I think Mum later joined Dad and became a Catholic, but I was never interested for sure, couldn`t give a rat`s behind about religion, but of course if I would have been around during the Nazi reign in an occupied country, I would also had been imposed to wear a big yellow badge.

I have no doubts that many posters on here, perhaps for several reasons would have been awarded a coloured badge during that period. Blond hair, blue eyed people did not always necessarily meet the Nazi criteria.

The Nazis were mad, crazy. Dad was an American GI stationed in England during the war, this is how he met mum. He used to tell me about the horrors he saw during the liberation of Europe, somethings he witnessed affected him for the remainder of his life.

The war was not all about the final solution, no one was exempt from the brutality of the Nazis and if only more could realise this fact, including the Thais.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[Thai at Heart]

Well with a national IQ average of 98, and hardly an imposing physical stature, I doubt Hitler would have lost too much sleep if the Thais had been moved on.

[wilcopops]

What I'm finding increasingly disturbing is the number of people who actually subscribe albeit negatively to Hitlers "credo" - they are happy to talk about race, IQ and concepts of hierarchy as if they have a basis in truth. They also debate which people he was "against" - this is pure drivel.

hitler's regime USED easily identifiable ethnic groups to build up a groundswell of opinion in the German population that was based purely on pseudo-science......in all probability he knew this was all crap, but it enabled him and his party firstly to get into power (democratically) and then in the name of what was "best" for Germany install himself and his party as the only viable rulers of the country.

He wasn't ANTI anything in reality - he just knew how to use these easily identifiable groups to his own advantage.

THis creation of scapegoats is common to virtually all dictatorships, and is so successful it is often adapted by more democratic governments. Demonising sections of society enables unscrupulous governments to get away with blue murder (literally) in the name of "national, security, unity, threats from within etc.0

I'm sure if you think about it you'l see examples iof this all over Europe and America today.

BUT

As I said at the beginning it seems a lot of the posters on this thread are perfect receptacles for this kind of perception of "other" within thioer own society.

All this goes to show that although you can't fool all the people all the time, you don't need to - just fool some of the people some of the time and that is enough to tip the balance in your favour.