Standing up for your rights

[thhMan]

A while back I made a post about Saving Face http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/640721-saving-face-thailands-biggest-problem/

Friday last week, I was on my way to the computer mall with the missus on the back of my bike.

Sure enough, there was a policeman there on the corner of the turnoff to the PC mall. (He seems to be there all the time)

So, as we where legal (except I forgot my drivers license at home), we drove on.

I noticed that the cop was waiting until I got close enough so he could see my face, before jumping out and pulling us over.

He asked me in perfect Engrish, "drivers license" which I informed him it was back at home and I apologize for my mistake, so please give me a ticket.

He wrote it out, handed it to me and said... "Pay Now" and then quickly took my bike keys. I said, give me my key back and I will pay within 7 days by Thai Law.

Anyway, suddenly he had an English comprehension problem and I kept repeating louder and louder.. Give me my key back...

As he pulled over another farang, I grabbed him and demanded my key back, which he refused. He jumped and started pointing to where I grabbed him and I yelled, GIVE ME MY KEY BACK...

The farang that just got pulled over, then leaned over to me and said, this is the 5th time in 3 days I have been pulled over. And then a farang passing by told me that its the Thai Law to confiscate a vehicle..

Then my wife started screaming at me for touching the cop, which I replied with... The xxxx'er wont give my key back and HE IS BREAKING THE LAW. Anyway, she told the cop that the reason I left my wallet at home was because we where in a rush to get a PC part, as we had to get home quick, before we picked up our kids at school...
(OMG... his pig face when he figured out I was an expat with family, was looking a bit embarrassed)

Anyway, he asked me for the ticket back, crossed out my name and put her name on the ticket and gave me the key back, after searching through the bike and finding out it was my bike, properly registered and so on.

We had a big crowd around us by now and when he gave me my key back, he said "You bad man", which I then politely bowed to him and then yelled back... You are a thief !

The crowd clapped as I got my key back and the taxi motorbikes that had positioned themselves at the corner to drive tourists to the police station and back, smiled and one gave me the thumbs up...

It was great getting my own back, but now I see my missus is so threatened by Thailand that I dont fully trust her anymore. She would rather kiss ass than stand up for her partner.... I for one, will not and will never bow down to this form of toursit corruption.

I am not sure how the cop saved face by giving my key back, but I hope he gets it through his thick and empty head that same farang have had enough and will "bite back"

Edited July 16, 2013 by thhMan

[mickjn]

If this is not a joke,no wonder your wife is scared.Expect a visit

[David48]

I understand all of your story ... except for this bit ...

It was great getting my own back, but now I see my missus is so threatened by Thailand that I dont fully trust her anymore. She would rather kiss ass than stand up for her partner.... I for one, will not and will never bow down to this form of toursit corruption.

You don't trust your wife because her inbuilt survival instinct?

Your wife was scared for the current and as potentially future ramifications?

I just hope for your sake that your card is not marked now.

I have learnt a lesson though (and thanks) ... should I ever get pulled over ... I will pocket my own keys.

Thanks for that tip.

.

[robblok]

Standing up for your rights is 1 thing.. but getting physical with a cop is an other.

That is just something I would not do.

[jvs]

Op ,get rid of your airsoft gun if you have one at home.........

You should know better as to touch a Bib,he could have reacted differently.

Make sure you have a concealed camera the next few times you meet him,maybe the best way is to go see him at the police station in front of his boss and apologize to him explaining you were having a bad day and so on.

If not for your sake do it for your wife.

[Tywais]

I grabbed him and demanded my key back

Why did I get a chill down my back reading that?

[jvs]

Op ,get rid of your airsoft gun if you have one at home.........

You should know better as to touch a Bib,he could have reacted differently.

Make sure you have a concealed camera the next few times you meet him,maybe the best way is to go see him at the police station in front of his boss and apologize to him explaining you were having a bad day and so on.

If not for your sake do it for your wife.

[Spoonman]

wow how unbelievably stupid to grab a policeman, consider yourself lucky he only called you a bad man, as for the cheering and thumbs up from bystanders............ did this "pig" also fly?

[jvs]

David 48,it will not help you taking the keys out,they usually have a chain and lock your bike that way.

[pigeonjake]

i must say we do get targeted,

we, my wife and i,

were driving somewere, cant remember were, dosnt matter,

anyway i was behind a silver car,

out pops the BIB, hand up to me to stop,

i got out my licence and insurance, to be told i was speeding,,

never i said i was behind that silver car, he wasnt speeding so i wasnt,

again he said you were speeding, i turned my engine off and told him, ring your big boss and get him here, i wasnt speeding, at that he just said,, ok drive off,,lol,

and that was that,

if ive done something wrong i dont mind paying, but if i havnt, im not paying

[soi41]

The cop being a stereotype of a corrupt Thai cop, is no excuse for you behaving like a stereotype, "full of himself" farang!

Next time leave to your wife to handle the situation, she might not get the "thumbs up" from the motosais, but no doubt, with her knowledge of the country, she will handle it 10 times better, than you did!

You have a lot to learn.

[Bluetongue]

i must say we do get targeted,

we, my wife and i,

were driving somewere, cant remember were, dosnt matter,

anyway i was behind a silver car,

out pops the BIB, hand up to me to stop,

i got out my licence and insurance, to be told i was speeding,,

never i said i was behind that silver car, he wasnt speeding so i wasnt,

again he said you were speeding, i turned my engine off and told him, ring your big boss and get him here, i wasnt speeding, at that he just said,, ok drive off,,lol,

and that was that,

if ive done something wrong i dont mind paying, but if i havnt, im not paying

I agree with you Jake but you hadn't dome anything wrong, you were just a victim of the highwaymen, your reaction sounded pretty calm too, whereas the OP was in the wrong was screaming and grabbing a cop, lucky to not have a gun pulled on him I suggest

[David48]

I grabbed him and demanded my key back

Why did I get a chill down my back reading that?

+1

David 48,it will not help you taking the keys out,they usually have a chain and lock your bike that way.

Thanks for the Heads up.

I've driven in Pattaya a bit, but never ridden there.

Where I ride now is not a Farang hub (thankfully)

I hope the OP has decided, on reflection, that his actions in haste and moral stand may not be a good strategy. Though, from memory and an earlier post ... he's been here for close on 10 years?

.

.

[Gsxrnz]

I understand that the BIB have the right to either confiscate your bike or your license to ensure payment of the fine. I'm assuming that when he said "pay now" that he meant pay the fine and not pay a bribe?

I've had my license held a few times and was allowed to drive to the cop shop and pay the fine, return and show the receipt to get your license back. If you haven't got a license they can hold your vehicle instead.

You are correct in that you have 7 days to pay. The BIB was correct in that he can hold your vehicle or license - for the 7 days if needs be.

I don't understand why you didn't simply ask your wife to explain that you had to pick up the kids, and can we sort something out. i.e he could have retained your bike rego form (the 2556/2557 label), or maybe even your wife's ID card to enable you to collect the kids, pay the fine, and return to collect whatever was retained. I'll bet that an agreement could have easily been reached.

Touching a cop in most any country will land you on a charge of assaulting a police officer. Count yourself lucky for the time being. But your card has been marked and if it happened as you describe, the cop has lost tremendous face - he has no choice but to get it back. You should take the opportunity to give him back his face before he pays you a visit. Go and apologise for your behaviour, because if you haven't realised it by now, you were totally in the wrong.

[robblok]

i must say we do get targeted,

we, my wife and i,

were driving somewere, cant remember were, dosnt matter,

anyway i was behind a silver car,

out pops the BIB, hand up to me to stop,

i got out my licence and insurance, to be told i was speeding,,

never i said i was behind that silver car, he wasnt speeding so i wasnt,

again he said you were speeding, i turned my engine off and told him, ring your big boss and get him here, i wasnt speeding, at that he just said,, ok drive off,,lol,

and that was that,

if ive done something wrong i dont mind paying, but if i havnt, im not paying

I agree with you Jake but you hadn't dome anything wrong, you were just a victim of the highwaymen, your reaction sounded pretty calm too, whereas the OP was in the wrong was screaming and grabbing a cop, lucky to not have a gun pulled on him I suggest

I agree.. calm and reasonable response Jake. That is how I would do it.. no physical stuff that is just dangerous. They carry guns.

[jpeg]

I see there is an interminably long ongoing thread entitled 'thaivisa brigades'. I haven't bothered to read any of it, I'm sure it's just for fun, the usual posters taking a pop at one another, but does it by any chance have a 'Farang Bend Over To Thais In 'Authority' At All Costs' brigade?

The aforgoing posts are are all of that ilk (as per). Ignore them. Nothing will happen. And was the poster serious about your going to crawl to cop shop and prostrate yourself before thieving scum? Please don't. It only encourages their innate and misplaced (protect and serve?) sense of superiority (a pig in a uniform is still a pig), and makes it look bad for the rest of us.

[robblok]

I see there is an interminably long ongoing thread entitled 'thaivisa brigades'. I haven't bothered to read any of it, I'm sure it's just for fun, the usual posters taking a pop at one another, but does it by any chance have a 'Farang Bend Over To Thais In 'Authority' At All Costs' brigade?

The aforgoing posts are are all of that ilk (as per). Ignore them. Nothing will happen. And was the poster serious about your going to crawl to cop shop and prostrate yourself before thieving scum? Please don't. It only encourages their innate and misplaced (protect and serve?) sense of superiority (a pig in a uniform is still a pig), and makes it look bad for the rest of us.

There is a difference between protesting and getting physical.. that was the problem.

[lemoncake]

what i do not understand is the reason for all the fuss. What is the difference if you pay now or pay within 7 days. Why go through all the crap?

Also as many said, getting physical with a cop in many countries would get you locked up and convicted, in Thailand can easily get you shot on the spot

[thhMan]

Im sorry guys...

I understand exactly what you say and agree too...

But sometimes you need to stop bending over and taking it up the arse... No disrespect to any poster...

Before it escalated, I did ask him for my keys back and told him I will pay the fine in 7 days... but he just walked away...

EDIT: Doesnt it bother some of you, reading how westerners get screwed in Thailand daily (no pun intended)... Thailand can keep going down its destructive path, but I am sure, this particular cop will remember this situation as weird as it was and PERHAPS... just perhaps, may be easier on the next unfortunate victim... wishful thinking, I know.... but weird things happen all the time.

Edited July 16, 2013 by thhMan

[Lancelot]

Standing up for your rights is 1 thing.. but getting physical with a cop is an other.

That is just something I would not do.

I agree. Maybe the OP was lucky- this time...

[lemoncake]

Im sorry guys...

I understand exactly what you say and agree too...

But sometimes you need to stop bending over and taking it up the arse... No disrespect to any poster...

Before it escalated, I did ask him for my keys back and told him I will pay the fine in 7 days... but he just walked away...

He is the cop, he sets the rules, not you!

If you not happy with his rule you take it further up the chain, you certainly do not get physical with a police officer.

Really, you should consider yourself lucky to still be alive and not locked up rotting in some some cell

[CWMcMurray]

what i do not understand is the reason for all the fuss. What is the difference if you pay now or pay within 7 days. Why go through all the crap?

Also as many said, getting physical with a cop in many countries would get you locked up and convicted, in Thailand can easily get you shot on the spot

Guessing that OP's plan was to go to the Police station with his license sometime within the 7 days to try and avoid having to pay any ticket by showing he had a valid License.

Not a bad idea, although was perhaps not the best idea to man handle the officer, as could have ended up in even worse trouble

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Jasun]

There is nothing wrong with standing up for yourself. But getting into any kind of confrontation, especially physical, isn't the way i'd handle it.

It's perfectly OK to dispute the fine and take your case to the station. But be sure you can prove you're in the right, because the people that get involved, the more hands that are being held out.

[lemoncake]

what i do not understand is the reason for all the fuss. What is the difference if you pay now or pay within 7 days. Why go through all the crap?

Also as many said, getting physical with a cop in many countries would get you locked up and convicted, in Thailand can easily get you shot on the spot

Guessing that OP's plan was to go to the Police station with his license sometime within the 7 days to try and avoid having to pay any ticket by showing he had a valid License.

Not a bad idea, although was perhaps not the best idea to man handle the officer, as could have ended up in even worse trouble

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Fair point, though i have serious doubt police would cancel the fine upon seeing the license.

Not to mention, even easier alternative would be to grab a taxi to run home to get the license and show it.

[GreenSnapper]

what i do not understand is the reason for all the fuss. What is the difference if you pay now or pay within 7 days. Why go through all the crap?

Also as many said, getting physical with a cop in many countries would get you locked up and convicted, in Thailand can easily get you shot on the spot

Not only with a cop.

Getting physical or shouting hysterically around, is just immature behaviour. And it may be your last activity in your life if unlucky.

[Spoonman]

but I am sure, this particular cop will remember this situation as weird as it was and PERHAPS... just perhaps, may be easier on the next unfortunate victim... wishful thinking, I know.... but weird things happen all the time.

Iam sure the policeman will remember you and become a very large pain in your ass every-time he see's you.

[thhMan]

what i do not understand is the reason for all the fuss. What is the difference if you pay now or pay within 7 days. Why go through all the crap?

Also as many said, getting physical with a cop in many countries would get you locked up and convicted, in Thailand can easily get you shot on the spot

Guessing that OP's plan was to go to the Police station with his license sometime within the 7 days to try and avoid having to pay any ticket by showing he had a valid License.

Not a bad idea, although was perhaps not the best idea to man handle the officer, as could have ended up in even worse trouble

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I paid the fine, because I was in the wrong... No question about that....

I also didnt go any further.... I paid and walked out.... Got on my bike and rode home

[lemoncake]

Im sorry guys...

I understand exactly what you say and agree too...

But sometimes you need to stop bending over and taking it up the arse... No disrespect to any poster...

Before it escalated, I did ask him for my keys back and told him I will pay the fine in 7 days... but he just walked away...

EDIT: Doesnt it bother some of you, reading how westerners get screwed in Thailand daily (no pun intended)... Thailand can keep going down its destructive path, but I am sure, this particular cop will remember this situation as weird as it was and PERHAPS... just perhaps, may be easier on the next unfortunate victim... wishful thinking, I know.... but weird things happen all the time.

How were you screwed?

Did you have the license on you? NO

What was the scam?

You do not think next time, you will get a ticket for speeding, running the red light, having noisy bike just to name a few?

How exactly are you going to prove you were not speeding or you did not run the red light?

Will you go to court and spend 25 000 to save yourself paying 500 or 1000?

[tolsti]

never argue with a man with a gun and little intelligence.

[chrisinth]

Op ,get rid of your airsoft gun if you have one at home.........

You should know better as to touch a Bib,he could have reacted differently.

Make sure you have a concealed camera the next few times you meet him,maybe the best way is to go see him at the police station in front of his boss and apologize to him explaining you were having a bad day and so on.

If not for your sake do it for your wife.

That would detract slightly from the title of the OP, Standing up for your rights..........................