Standing up for your rights

[Jingthing]

I have had some similar experiences when resisting corrupt scamming Thais: calling me a bad man. I guess they know about such stuff. Oh well!

[jvs]

@jpeg,maybe you have been in Thailand a long time or you may even be Thai,it does not matter .

You are wrong stating i suggesting crawling to the police station and lying down in front of a bunch of thieves.

The OP was wrong for getting physical with a police officer and as far as defending his rights,what rights?

Things like this happen all over all of the time,loosing your temper is not going to change it a bit.

Standing up for your rights is part of what makes you a man,but so does apologizing when you are wrong.

What happens the next time the wife meets the cop alone,she will probably apologize for the OP's behavior .

If the cop is any kind of a man according to Thai style ,he will not forget the loss of face in front of other people.

The OP started a topic on losing face,he made his wife lose face.

OP is married and his first concern should be with his family and not some silly issue which could have been easily resolved.

He is worried about his wife not backing him up and not being able to trust her anymore,whose fault is that?

[Soutpeel]

never argue with a man with a gun and little intelligence.

The thing that occurs to me...

if the OP had grabbed a copper anywhere in the western world he would have 1. tasered 2. shot 3. been roughed up a bit by arresting officers...

the point being he would have been up on charges assaulting a police officer....

In the Thai context....even more of an idiot...as "standing up" for his rights could have resulted in a bullet between the eyes, all over a DL and set of keys...stupidity

Fact is my dear boy....Farang in Thailand...you have no "rights"..your not in Kansa's anymore, so maybe one should consider getting off your democratic rights soapbox

Per numerous reports many posted on TV...We all know in matters of "losing face", this can turn Thai nationals into homocidal manic's in the blink of an eye...therefore one assumes said plod has lost face in public here on his patch...so one would expect your card is marked by said plod and his buddies...I wouldnt go as far as visiting the police station and kow towing down and asking for forgiveness, but you maybe a good idea to stay away from this location for a while...

you could also also consider buying a Fortuna with darkened windows and trade your bike in...

As regards the comments related to stop bending over and taking up the ass...which would you rather have...someone trying to play hide the sausage with you or the possiblity of a bullet in your head over a set of keys and a DL

considering the widely held belief by farangs that all Thai's are stupid and farangs are intellectually superior...surely coming to "diplomatic" solution in situations like this using the farang superior intellect should be easy then...

[jbrain]

Im sorry guys...

I understand exactly what you say and agree too...

But sometimes you need to stop bending over and taking it up the arse... No disrespect to any poster...

Before it escalated, I did ask him for my keys back and told him I will pay the fine in 7 days... but he just walked away...

He is the cop, he sets the rules, not you!

If you not happy with his rule you take it further up the chain, you certainly do not get physical with a police officer.

Really, you should consider yourself lucky to still be alive and not locked up rotting in some some cell

No he doesn't set the rules. The rules are written in a big book with the title THE LAW, and the copper has to adhere to them.

Edited July 16, 2013 by jbrain

[GuestHouse]

Sure enough, there was a policeman there on the corner of the turnoff to the PC mall. (He seems to be there all the time)

So, as we where legal (except I forgot my drivers license at home), we drove on.

Nuff said.

[p_brownstone]

never argue with a man with a gun and little intelligence.

Did the OP have a gun? I missed that.

Patrick

[lemoncake]

Im sorry guys...

I understand exactly what you say and agree too...

But sometimes you need to stop bending over and taking it up the arse... No disrespect to any poster...

Before it escalated, I did ask him for my keys back and told him I will pay the fine in 7 days... but he just walked away...

He is the cop, he sets the rules, not you!

If you not happy with his rule you take it further up the chain, you certainly do not get physical with a police officer.

Really, you should consider yourself lucky to still be alive and not locked up rotting in some some cell

No he doesn't set the rules. The rules are written in a big book with the title THE LAW, and the copper has to adhere to them.

Next time cop pulls you over, i hope you will set him straight and let him know THE LAW! or you only tough to throw big words around on Internet?

In any country, you do what ever the cop tells you and if he broke the law, you are welcome to file a law suit or a complaint

Edited July 16, 2013 by lemoncake

[infinity11]

If only i had ten baht for every alpha male i met in Thailand.

[Spoonman]

If only i had ten baht for every alpha male i met in Thailand.

Personally I would be happy with 5 baht for every internet tough guy/oracle !!!

[Jingthing]

If only i had ten baht for every alpha male i met in Thailand.

How about 10 baht per post?

Just saying ...

[jbrain]

Im sorry guys...

I understand exactly what you say and agree too...

But sometimes you need to stop bending over and taking it up the arse... No disrespect to any poster...

Before it escalated, I did ask him for my keys back and told him I will pay the fine in 7 days... but he just walked away...

He is the cop, he sets the rules, not you!

If you not happy with his rule you take it further up the chain, you certainly do not get physical with a police officer.

Really, you should consider yourself lucky to still be alive and not locked up rotting in some some cell

No he doesn't set the rules. The rules are written in a big book with the title THE LAW, and the copper has to adhere to them.

Next time cop pulls you over, i hope you will set him straight and let him know THE LAW! or you only tough to throw big words around on Internet?

In any country, you do what ever the cop tells you and if he broke the law, you are welcome to file a law suit or a complaint

So if a cop asks you to bend over you will obey to his wishes ?Good luck with that, make sure you always have some vaseline within reach.

I'm not a tough guy, and don't want to pretend to be one, but what you suggest in your reply to me will not happen in this life time.

And I hear the answer coming already that it may significantly shorten my life expectancy in this country, which I very much doubt by the way, but at least I will have kept my dignity.

You should know that a corrupt person generally is also a cissy and when he see that his victim isn't an easy go he will back off quickly.

[Soutpeel]

You should know that a corrupt person generally is also a cissy and when he see that his victim isn't an easy go he will back off quickly.

but the problem is some of these cissies have guns on their hips, and please dont tell never in Thailand has one of the BiB ever lost the plot and started taking pot shots at people....

[jbrain]

You should know that a corrupt person generally is also a cissy and when he see that his victim isn't an easy go he will back off quickly.

but the problem is some of these cissies have guns on their hips, and please dont tell never in Thailand has one of the BiB ever lost the plot and started taking pot shots at people....

Yes they have, I know of two cases where a drunk off duty cop lost the plot and killed a foreigner.

But I don't see frontpages full every day where cops in uniform have shot a foreigner because he refused to pay his speeding ticket.

Another fairy tale which holds no ground.

[lemoncake]

So if a cop asks you to bend over you will obey to his wishes ?Good luck with that, make sure you always have some vaseline within reach.

I'm not a tough guy, and don't want to pretend to be one, but what you suggest in your reply to me will not happen in this life time.

And I hear the answer coming already that it may significantly shorten my life expectancy in this country, which I very much doubt by the way, but at least I will have kept my dignity.

You should know that a corrupt person generally is also a cissy and when he see that his victim isn't an easy go he will back off quickly.

Are you not the same man looking for who to call for help if someone is near your house? and now you talking about dignity?

If you going to come back with reply, at least have the decency to come up with somewhat related example.

If the cop tells you to get down on the ground (for no reason) are you going to argue there with him to keep your dignity and tell him what the LAW is?

Please stop deluding yourself, not so long ago you were worried who to cal in case of trouble and now you big man to take on cops?

[Beetlejuice]

The crowd clapped as I got my key back and the taxi motorbikes that had positioned themselves at the corner to drive tourists to the police station and back, smiled and one gave me the thumbs up...

No way, not in Thailand. No one wants to become involved with the police here and the done thing is to look the other way and move on. And you allege to have called the policeman a thief and grabbed him? For that you would have been arrested on the spot for a breach of the peace.

All rather far fetched to me, or highly exaggerated and if there is any fact to this tale, than I certainly would not recommend that others follow your example if pulled up by the police.

When out and about driving a vehicle I always carry my driving license and passport. It`s second nature to me and during my many years in Thailand, have never experienced any problems or had run ins with the law.

[Soutpeel]

You should know that a corrupt person generally is also a cissy and when he see that his victim isn't an easy go he will back off quickly.

but the problem is some of these cissies have guns on their hips, and please dont tell never in Thailand has one of the BiB ever lost the plot and started taking pot shots at people....

Yes they have, I know of two cases where a drunk off duty cop lost the plot and killed a foreigner.

But I don't see frontpages full every day where cops in uniform have shot a foreigner because he refused to pay his speeding ticket.

Another fairy tale which holds no ground.

no one as far as I can see has put forward a "fairy tale" about a Thai BiB shooting anyone over a speeding ticket.. ..but the facts are have Thai BiB taken potshots at "iinocent" people ? and to extend what your saying are Thai BiB drunk on duty ?....possibly

In the case of the OP...if the BiB lost the plot and started waving a firearm around..it wouldnt be over a license or taking someones keys...but it could be because of loss of face and grabbing him...therefore it becomes personal....

Per TV news reports....We have had a Thai Judge throwing a temper trantrum, we have had a Thai diplomat doing similar in thing in Egypt which appears to have got to the point of physical violence, some Hi So goverment official slapping airport security around and numerous other cases where the response to certain situations has gone way overboard or possibly got out of hand....

Therefore could one suggest a simple traffic stop could get out of hand very quickly in Thailand if handled wrong over basically nothing and is it conceivable a fire arm could be drawn on someone ?...yes

[lemoncake]

You should know that a corrupt person generally is also a cissy and when he see that his victim isn't an easy go he will back off quickly.

but the problem is some of these cissies have guns on their hips, and please dont tell never in Thailand has one of the BiB ever lost the plot and started taking pot shots at people....

Yes they have, I know of two cases where a drunk off duty cop lost the plot and killed a foreigner.

But I don't see frontpages full every day where cops in uniform have shot a foreigner because he refused to pay his speeding ticket.

Another fairy tale which holds no ground.

Only this case is NOT about not paying the ticket, but about physically assaulting a police officer.

And while you may not get shot, you may end up locked up, charged and convicted as you would in any other country

[lemoncake]

You should know that a corrupt person generally is also a cissy and when he see that his victim isn't an easy go he will back off quickly.

but the problem is some of these cissies have guns on their hips, and please dont tell never in Thailand has one of the BiB ever lost the plot and started taking pot shots at people....

Yes they have, I know of two cases where a drunk off duty cop lost the plot and killed a foreigner.

But I don't see frontpages full every day where cops in uniform have shot a foreigner because he refused to pay his speeding ticket.

Another fairy tale which holds no ground.

no one as far as I can see has put forward a "fairy tale" about a Thai BiB shooting anyone over a speeding ticket.. ..but the facts are have Thai BiB taken potshots at "iinocent" people ? and to extend what your saying are Thai BiB drunk on duty ?....possibly

In the case of the OP...if the BiB lost the plot and started waving a firearm around..it wouldnt be over a license or taking someones keys...but it could be because of loss of face and grabbing him...therefore it becomes personal....

Per TV news reports....We have had a Thai Judge throwing a temper trantrum, we have had a Thai diplomat doing similar in thing in Egypt which appears to have got to the point of physical violence, some Hi So goverment official slapping airport security around and numerous other cases where the response to certain situations has gone way overboard or possibly got out of hand....

Therefore could one suggest a simple traffic stop could get out of hand very quickly in Thailand if handled wrong over basically nothing and is it conceivable a fire arm could be drawn on someone ?...yes

Do not forget the Canadian who was shot and killed(just the other day news, took 4 year for cop to confess)

Around same time(few days ago, news about cops walking free after shooting 1-2 people in broad day light)

The cop who shot up Chevrolet dealership because they kept screwing him around

[wprime]

That's not how you solve problems in Thailand - I haven't paid the taxes for my car since Jan 2554, haven't paid a fine in at least 18 months (been checked and asked about it many times). If you do things right, you can talk yourself out of almost anything.

If the policeman is of roughly equal age or older:

1.) apologise and give a reasonable explanation (e.g. you left your wallet at home)

2.) explain why you can't afford to pay

3.) show the policeman some respect, he wants to feel important and standing up for your rights doesn't help. If he's much older call him Lung, otherwise call him Phee

4.) always talk from the point of view that you've made a mistake, and by not booking you, he's doing you a favour, e.g. I know you're just trying to keep the roads safe, but can you help me out here. You're good hearted, I know you want to help me. It was an honest mistake, etc. Put lots of khor chuay noi in there.

5.) do not take no for an answer. As long as you come from a respectful position, he cannot elevate the situation (doing so would be considered hot hearted and he will lose face) and you can continue to request he let you go until he accepts (they cave very quickly)

You really want to do this all in Thai if possible.

If he is considerably younger, there is no need to show him much respect. Do not do anything physical (e.g. grabbing his hand) though be firm. Demand he returns your keys as though it's your right, if he doesn't comply ask to speak to his boss. At this point he will more than likely cave, if he doesn't. Speak to his boss (his boss will likely be older so you can use the first method on him).

[lemoncake]

That's not how you solve problems in Thailand - I haven't paid the taxes for my car since Jan 2554, haven't paid a fine in at least 18 months (been checked and asked about it many times). If you do things right, you can talk yourself out of almost anything.

If the policeman is of roughly equal age or older:

1.) apologise and give a reasonable explanation (e.g. you left your wallet at home)

2.) explain why you can't afford to pay

3.) show the policeman some respect, he wants to feel important and standing up for your rights doesn't help. If he's much older call him Lung, otherwise call him Phee

4.) always talk from the point of view that you've made a mistake, and by not booking you, he's doing you a favour, e.g. I know you're just trying to keep the roads safe, but can you help me out here. You're good hearted, I know you want to help me. It was an honest mistake, etc. Put lots of khor chuay noi in there.

5.) do not take no for an answer. As long as you come from a respectful position, he cannot elevate the situation (doing so would be considered hot hearted and he will lose face) and you can continue to request he let you go until he accepts (they cave very quickly)

You really want to do this all in Thai if possible.

If he is considerably younger, there is no need to show him much respect. Do not do anything physical (e.g. grabbing his hand) though be firm. Demand he returns your keys as though it's your right, if he doesn't comply ask to speak to his boss. At this point he will more than likely cave, if he doesn't. Speak to his boss (his boss will likely be older so you can use the first method on him).

and now its time to wake up

Love the TV experts

Let me tell you how your system worked for someone who had to be your student.

I was in the station, filling report.

One of your students got fined 500 baht for raving his bike too loud(one of those rented 600cc)

He came into station, showing all the respects not wanting to pay, cops thought he was funny and reduced it down to 400 baht.

Naturally as you teach, he did not accept that and kept on "explaining" 20 mins later, his fine increased to 1000 baht and when he failed to accept that, it went up to 2000 baht with 5 mins to make a payment or get arrested.

Moral of the story, pay the ticket and get on with your life, even if you did not break the law this time, no doubt you had numerous other times

[Spoonman]

That's not how you solve problems in Thailand - I haven't paid the taxes for my car since Jan 2554,

What does your insurance company think about that ?

[rayongchelsea]

It has surprised me over the years how farangs have become so supine, don't do this, can't do that,not the Thai way..let the wife deal with it...we have rights..exercise them in the correct way however.....just be respectful..

I have been in a meeting where cops sat nearby..intimidation can be everywhere..

It use to be when a cop saw a farang they automatically let you go..now we are richer pickings..

But I am with op, maybe not in his behaviour..

He shouldn't be so hard on his wife, she has been brought up to accept this..

But don't sweat the small stuff..

Thailand is deteriorating....I am protected by a reasonable amount of wealth..tough on poorer farangs (as it is for poorer thais) because it will just get worse..

Btw, of the few cops I have come across over the last 30 years most have been ok..

[lemoncake]

That's not how you solve problems in Thailand - I haven't paid the taxes for my car since Jan 2554,

What does your insurance company think about that ?

He follows his rules 1 down to 5, and uses same principal when it comes to paying any bills

[Spoonman]

That's not how you solve problems in Thailand - I haven't paid the taxes for my car since Jan 2554,

What does your insurance company think about that ?

He follows his rules 1 down to 5, and uses same principal when it comes to paying any bills

Rules 1 through 5 must work a treat with the family of the person he has killed through his own negligence............... be cheaper to pay road taxes and vehicle insurance !!!

[lemoncake]

It has surprised me over the years how farangs have become so supine, don't do this, can't do that,not the Thai way..let the wife deal with it...we have rights..exercise them in the correct way however.....just be respectful..

I have been in a meeting where cops sat nearby..intimidation can be everywhere..

It use to be when a cop saw a farang they automatically let you go..now we are richer pickings..

But I am with op, maybe not in his behaviour..

He shouldn't be so hard on his wife, she has been brought up to accept this..

But don't sweat the small stuff..

Thailand is deteriorating....I am protected by a reasonable amount of wealth..tough on poorer farangs (as it is for poorer thais) because it will just get worse..

Btw, of the few cops I have come across over the last 30 years most have been ok..

Standing up for your rights often costs more than its worth. We all have principals, but sometimes need to step back and think.

As i said earlier, are you willing to spend 25K on a lawyer to file a law suit to win , so you do not need to pay 500 baht?

Is it really worth months of your life and stress to "save" 500 baht?

[kikoman]

I definitely would have not given him any money on the street, I would protest in a meaningful and non-threatening way in a calm voice. I learn in Arizona USA you never argue with a policeman on the street, take the the ticket and contest it in court.

You are extremely lucky that you did not get arrested for assaulting an officer, or beat up and or shot, the situation could have been handled better by your wife, the one you do not trust that kept you from making a grave mistake and you see it as a Thai kissing up to another Thai (instead of a loving wife protecting her husband from his foolish self)

If you were arrested and jailed for assault, you need never to worry about Thai Police again, as you could just be put on a plane out of Thailand after you served your sentence.

Cheers:.

[vivek130205]

I totally understand the way you reacted,however this kind of attitude will not help you long believe me. I have witnessed several cases wherein Farangs have been put behind bars for not much of an offence, you need to understand especially in thailand that laws are meant to be twisted and turned as per the convenience of the lawmakers.

I would like to share an instance, hope it helps

One of my friend had an restaurant and a hotel in central Bangkok, few cops came over and asked him for a glass of water once they moved they came on and stood at the reception, obviously no one will deny giving a glass of water as it is an individuals duty on humanitarian grounds. He was instantly arrested and when he asked the reason they told him that his work permit stated he was owner, however he was working as a staff at his hotel and had no thai employee who served the cops.

He tried to prove that he handed over glass of water as curtsy and not for monetary gains to which he received the weirdest reply under this sky. HAD HE OFFERED A GLASS OF WATER OUTSIDE HOTEL PREMISES IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OKAY BUT THE PLACE OF OCCOURANCE WAS WITHIN PREMISES , which levies a penalty up-to 100000 baht and/or deportation.

He was not in good books of few cops and like you he was standing up for his rights.

He was deported and blacklisted, he has his business here which is being taken care by one of his associates, its been 4 years he is trying to get the case reopened but nothing happens till now.

He has invested over 8M THB here all went down the drain. Better watch out next time mate.

It wont get you anywhere, except behind bars or back to your homeland.

Thailand is a land of smiles, overlook few things and move on easy.

God bless.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mrtoad]

For the sake of a small fine, the OP clearly was pushing it. I have no time for The BIB a criminal organization at best, but it's a waste of time getting involved and trying to play tough guy. Think about the bloke in Pai, and the couple in Kanchanburi. You are dealing with gun carrying, low intelligence, criminals. Think the OP was lucky it didn't get out of hand. I had a debate about a made up offence a few weeks ago, ended up negotiating a price so I didn't have to hand my license in and go to the Pig Palace and pay a fine, as I was on the way of a long drive. I wasn't happy, but then they make up the rules.

Edited July 16, 2013 by mrtoad

[ETatBKK]

put myself into the shoe of the OP, I could understand what happened. first, I agree with many others, don't get physical with ANYONE, of course including the BiB.

what OP did simply he wanted to stand for his right ( something very vague in mind ), yet it may cross the subtle fine line of confrontation, that is very visible. the 'I can't bend down' attitude could easily flame the situation, to a point of no return. at that point it is not about B100 or B1,000, you may pay MORE but not the money.

not with the cop, I had couple of bad incidents on the road - either big limo pushes in from the exit, pick-up chasing just a meter at the back in the speed of 120km. to a point I want to get out and yell at them, but no - my wife said THEY MAY HAVE GUN. my last minute intelligent tells me, stay away !

we have to admit that we are in a developing country, laws and rules are on the hand of those with 'power' and up to their own elaboration. relax and stay back, we still have plenty of enjoyable moments in Thailand !

[NeverSure]

Personally, I don't believe one word of the OP, but that's just me. He didn't have his D/L, the cop took his keys. He got physical with the cop and was allowed to drive away?

Whatever...