Best No Fee & Low-Fee Bank Cards for Americans 2013-

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A couple of years ago, folks here started a thread in the banking forum titled: Banking For Americans In Thailand 101.

In the two-years since that thread was launched, it's now as of July 2013 grown to almost 20 pages in length, with a lot of that discussion devoted to the various no-fee and low-fee bank cards (debit cards and credit cards) that are good, economical deals for Americans to use while visiting to or living in Thailand.

Given that banks and credit unions and their policies change over time, and the original thread was getting very long, it seemed a good idea to me to start a new thread here just devoted solely to the bank cards' discussions.... and let the original Banking for Americans in Thailand 101 thread remain as a place other kinds of general banking discussions.

Keeping track of the various no-fee bank card offerings is a challenging task, because many/most of the larger U.S. banks charge their customers pretty hefty fees for using their credit or debit cards outside the U.S. Fees of $2-$5 per ATM withdrawal plus 3% or more surcharges on both ATM withdrawals and Point of Sale (POS) purchases are not uncommon.

And yet, there are plenty of U.S. banks and credit unions out there that offer both credit cards and debit cards that have zero flat $ fees and zero % fees on foreign transactions. And some of the best even reimburse the 150/180 baht ATM fees (as of mid-2013) that all Thai banks charge for withdrawals from their ATMs using foreign (non-Thai bank) cards. Add up all those U.S. and Thai bank fees over a period of time, and you start to get into some serious money either saved or lost...

So hopefully, over time, ThaiVisa members, as they did in the prior thread, will contribute their information and experiences here with using U.S. bank card products in Thailand, and help everyone be aware of the best deals, the new ones that arise, and the deals that go south when a bank sometimes decides to end their no-fee policy.

Thus, as of mid 2013, here's our own locally sourced list of some of the various U.S. bank card products that have no-fee cards. To be included here, usually, these banks and credit unions typically have to allow new accounts to be opened online, for convenience and other obvious reasons. They also have to be either nationally or generally/widely available.

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U.S. VISA or MC logo DEBIT cards with no foreign currency fees & online account opening:

--Charles Schwab High-Yield Checking, which also automatically each month refunds other banks' ATM fees worldwide.

http://www.schwab.co...hecking_account

--State Farm Bank

http://www.statefarm...rd-checking.asp

--Fidelity Brokerage

https://www.fidelity.../atm-debit-card

Reimburses other banks' ATM fees and claims to charge a 1% foreign currency fee, but members here say they don't charge that fee.

--Service Credit Union, which is available to anyone who has a family member who's either current or former military in any capacity. Foreign currency fee of 1% refunded and other banks' ATM fees refunded at month's end for qualifying checking accounts with direct deposit. https://www.servicec...t/FreeAtms.asp?

Stanford Federal Credit Union located in CA (No foreign currency exchange fees, though it looks like they require a $500/mo direct deposit to not charge their own non-network ATM flat amount withdrawal fees). For those without other Stanford Federal Credit Union eligibility factors such as working at Stanford, you can open an account online and become eligible by joining the Museum of American Heritage (MOAH) or Friends of the Palo Alto Library (FOPAL). https://www.sfcu.org.../checking/cards

--Then there are any number of smaller banks and credit unions that serve state or local markets that don't charge foreign currency fees, and some also refund other banks' ATM fees. But they only make accounts available to those with a U.S. address in their local service area. That's why it's hard to post a lot of info on those here, and even to necessarily know all those that don't charge any FCF.

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AEON ATMs

And of course, at the Thailand end of things, all the Thai banks currently are charging 150b per withdrawal for foreign VISA cards and 180b per withdrawal for foreign MasterCards. But as many already know, there is a way to avoid those fees, and that's to use the no-fee AEON ATMs that are located in most larger cities in Thailand. Their ATMs will accept most VISA and MasterCard logo debit cards and charge no local withdrawal fee. Put those together with a no foreign currency fee U.S. debit card, and you're golden!!!

Capital One Cards

Which, lastly for the moment, brings us to the subject of the big U.S. bank Capital One. Many of Capital One's credit cards and debit cards over the years have had no foreign currency fees, making them popular with expats and travelers. And most still don't charge such fees. But a couple of years ago, Capital One changed something about their debit and ATM cards that led to many of them for unknown reasons no longer working in AEON ATMs.

So, you can still use most Capital One debits cards with no foreign currency fee at regular Thai bank ATMs. And Capital One won't charge you any extra fee. But the Thai bank will charge you their 150/180 baht withdrawal fee depending on the card. And you don't have the AEON ATMs as an option to avoid that. There may be one exception though. Capital One recently acquired the U.S. operations of ING Direct and converted that into a new online banking division called Capital One 360. Based on a recent member report here, for whatever reason, the Cap One 360 MasterCard debit card (unlike the regular Cap One debit cards) may well work fine in AEON ATMs.

There's more to come... This above is just a beginning. Stay tuned.

Edited July 16, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[garyk]

I use credit union in America! Hit a bank for cash advance ( debit only for me ). Never had a fee involved. No minimum amount on deposit. And!! I receive cash back for using the card. Excellent +++ But an Air Force credit union. So???? not for everyone for sure.

Happy camper. But I watch it pretty close. And this is my second bank. Compass started with no fees. Then changed and I changed just as fast.

Kinda cat and mouse . After they get you comfortable then they will try to stick it in. Just be ready and have options ready.

Edited July 17, 2013 by garyk

[craigt3365]

I use credit union in America! Hit a bank for cash advance ( debit only for me ). Never had a fee involved. No minimum amount on deposit. And!! I receive cash back for using the card. Excellent +++ But an Air Force credit union. So???? not for everyone for sure.

Happy camper. But I watch it pretty close. And this is my second bank. Compass started with no fees. Then changed and I changed just as fast.

Kinda cat and mouse . After they get you comfortable then they will try to stick it in. Just be ready and have options ready.

I use USAA, as do many other members here. They refund the ATM fees also.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Gary, perhaps you're talking about the Air Force Federal Credit Union based in San Antonio, TX.

Air Force Federal Credit Union is headquartered in SAN ANTONIO and is the 50^th largest credit union in the state of Texas. It is also the 605^th largest credit union in the nation. It was established in 1952 and as of March of 2013, it had grown to 139 employees and 36,942 members. Air Force Federal Credit Union has a 5-star health rating.

The good news is... despite their name, they make membership available to anyone who joins an affiliated nonprofit, the Airman Heritage Foundation, and pays a one-time $25 membership fee. But people with a variety of military affiliations also are automatically eligible to join, as per their membership page. You also appear to be able to join and open accounts with them online.

They appear to have a Free Simple Checking account and a First Class Checking account, the latter carrying a $9 per month fee. Both come with a VISA debit card, which is good because VISA usually has better exchange rates than MC. However, according to their Fee Schedule, they appear to have a $1 fee per use for any non-network ATM transaction, and other fees for having any ACH transfers.

All of their account disclosure documents are posted only when you click to become a member at the bottom of that page. The good news is, having reviewed all those disclosures, I see no mention of any foreign currency fee for their accounts. However, there's also no statement I could find saying they don't charge any foreign currency fee for use of their VISA card outside the U.S. So I hope you're right about them having no FCF...

Air Force Federal Credit Union doesn't show up on any of the lists I've seen of no-FCF accounts. But then again, because their membership eligibility was more limited in the past, they're not the kind of general purpose institution that the list compilers often would track. Thanks very much for the tip!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I use credit union in America! Hit a bank for cash advance ( debit only for me ). Never had a fee involved. No minimum amount on deposit. And!! I receive cash back for using the card. Excellent +++ But an Air Force credit union. So???? not for everyone for sure.

Happy camper. But I watch it pretty close. And this is my second bank. Compass started with no fees. Then changed and I changed just as fast.

Kinda cat and mouse . After they get you comfortable then they will try to stick it in. Just be ready and have options ready.

I use USAA, as do many other members here. They refund the ATM fees also.

A lot of people in ThaiVisa like and have accounts with USAA, which has a very good reputation...

However, for their debit card, they do charge a 1% foreign currency fee for transactions outside the U.S.

USAA does rebate the flat amount ATM fees that other banks charge when you use their ATMs, up to $15 per month. But they don't rebate their 1% card network fee charged against all transactions.

USAA Bank refunds up to $15 in other banks' ATM usage fees each month and does not charge a fee for the first 10 ATM withdrawals. Subsequent transactions will be charged $2.00 each. A 1% foreign transaction fee applies to withdrawals outside the United States.

https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/bank_main?akredirect=true

Edited July 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

All of their account disclosure documents are posted only when you click to become a member at the bottom of that page. The good news is, having reviewed all those disclosures, I see no mention of any foreign currency fee for their accounts. However, there's also no statement I could find saying they don't charge any foreign currency fee for use of their VISA card outside the U.S. So I hope you're right about them having no FCF...

When doing some searching on their website on the page regarding the regular debit card it does mention there may be fee and surcharge usage fee for getting cash worldwide (i.e., a foreign transaction). See this Link.

And for their Visa Reloadable Card at this Link it says:

Foreign Exchange: If a card transaction is made in a currency other than that loaded on the Card, the amount will be converted into the appropriate currency at an exchange rate on the day the transaction is processed. The exchange rate used is the wholesale money market or the government-mandated rate increased by 1% (including the VISA handling charge of 1%).

Not sure if above means they are passing along the Visa 1% foreign exchange charge and then adding another 1% on top of that for a total of 2%; or just passing along the Visa 1% charge only versus absorbing that fee.

But based on my searches on their web site my gut is telling me they do charge/pass along a foreign transaction fee and it's probably 1 or 2% total. This could appear as a separate charge hitting your account along with the foreign transaction amount, or mixed in with the core foreign transaction amount giving the impression that Visa was responsible for all the related fees when in fact the credit union could have added on a fee to the Visa fee.

Edit/Update: this Link says the AF Credit Union foreign transaction fee is 1%. So, this is some more confirmation they pass along the Visa fee of 1%. Which means their debit card is "not" a no foreign transaction fee....but at least they don't charge 2 or 3% like many banks/credit unions.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hi Pib... Always good to have another pair of prying eyes... regarding Air Force Federal Credit Union...

I'm not sure I interpret the information you've linked/posted above in the same way. However, I wanted to get to the bottom of the question with a direct answer, so I got AFFCU online tonight via webchat... and they confirmed....

Jessica

We do offer a visa debit card when used internationally there is a 1% fee assent by visa.

She also confirmed the $1 per ATM withdrawal fee when using ATMs outside of their co-op network.

So... AFFCU makes it onto the 1% list... but not onto the NO FEE list...

Edited July 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Hi Pib... Always good to have another pair of prying eyes... regarding Air Force Federal Credit Union...

I'm not sure I interpret the information you've linked/posted above in the same way. However, I wanted to get to the bottom of the question with a direct answer, so I got AFFCU online tonight via webchat... and they confirmed....

Jessica

We do offer a visa debit card when used internationally there is a 1% fee assent by visa.

She also confirmed the $1 per ATM withdrawal fee when using ATMs outside of their co-op network.

So... AFFCU makes it onto the 1% list... but not onto the NO FEE list...

My gut was right...seems the credit union was pussy footing around saying so for their regular debit card. But for their credit card their disclosure at this Link clearly says a 1% foreign transaction fee. And it seems banks/credit unions tend to have their foreign transaction fees pretty much in sync for their debit and credit cards. If their credit card has a 1% foreign fee (or 2 or 3% or whatever) then chances are good their debit card will also.

[Pakaty]

I opened a Capital One account. They advertised that they refund ATM service fees (including foreign ATM's) up to $25 per month. For the first month or two they were refunding the Thai ATM 150 Baht fee. Then they stopped, saying that the 150 Baht fee was not a service fee but a "foreign currency conversion fee" even though MasterCard is the one that handles FOREX conversion and rates. And, no it never has worked in an Aeon ATM.

I've been meaning to look into a Schwab account.

Anyone with experience or thoughts to share?

[Pib]

I opened a Capital One account. They advertised that they refund ATM service fees (including foreign ATM's) up to $25 per month. For the first month or two they were refunding the Thai ATM 150 Baht fee. Then they stopped, saying that the 150 Baht fee was not a service fee but a "foreign currency conversion fee" even though MasterCard is the one that handles FOREX conversion and rates. And, no it never has worked in an Aeon ATM.

I've been meaning to look into a Schwab account.

Anyone with experience or thoughts to share?

A case of the Reimbursement Golden Goose getting tired of spending too money on you. The Schwab Visa debit card works fine in Thai bank ATMs and AEON ATMs...and they reimburse any ATM fees monthly. However, I never use mine in Thai bank ATMs; only AEON ATMs since I have easy access to several AEON ATMs....and I really want to avoid if possible the Reimbursement Golden Goose spending too much money on me because it might upset them.

Very interesting feedback on what CapOne told you...maybe they are trying to figure out ways to disapprove reimbursement of certain ATM fees. Thanks for that crossfeed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think we need to be careful, moving forward, that there are two different Capital One's these days... regular Capital One, and Capital One 360. They have different accounts, different terms and may well have different abilities on whether their cards will work with AEON ATMs...

For the newer accounts with Cap One 360, I only see one checking account, and I don't see any mention with that account of rebates for other banks' ATM fees.

For checking accounts with the original Capital One, they have quite a few different kinds of checking accounts, each with different terms. Of the three checking accounts I see them offering now, only one appears to have any other bank ATM fee rebates.

That one, their High Yield checking account, has the following disclosure:

Plus, fees assessed at any ATM within the United States and at some ATMs located outside the United States will be reimbursed within 5 business days, up to $15 per statement period.

Hardly very reassuring...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I've been meaning to look into a Schwab account.

Anyone with experience or thoughts to share?

Re the Schwab account, it's probably the easiest, cleanest, simplest no-fee account out there for expats or travelers.

Lots of people here have experience with them, and it's mostly good. No fees, no minimums, good and free ACH transfer system, no foreign currency fees or non-network ATM charges, and they rebate other banks' ATM fees, domestic and international.

You do have to open a companion Schwab One brokerage account, but there's no balance requirement or usage requirement for it. Also, if you're going to open a Schwab account, you definitely want to do that via your U.S. address, and best to keep that as your ongoing address of record.

There's a reason I put them at the top of the list of no-fee accounts I posted above.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I opened a Capital One account. They advertised that they refund ATM service fees (including foreign ATM's) up to $25 per month. For the first month or two they were refunding the Thai ATM 150 Baht fee. Then they stopped, saying that the 150 Baht fee was not a service fee but a "foreign currency conversion fee"

Dunno that you can win that argument. But clearly whomever told you that at Cap One was full of B.S.

The 150/180 baht Thai bank ATM withdrawal fees have nothing to do with currency conversion. They're just the same as the $2-$5 ATM fees that many U.S. banks charge when someone from any other different bank tries to use their ATMs. They're a fixed/flat amount ATM fee, not a currency fee.

The real difference is... it is a FOREIGN ATM fee...not a domestic U.S. ATM fee. Some banks that do reimbursements will cover both, but a lot specifically limit ATM rebates to domestic U.S. fees (but I'm not referring specifically to Cap One in that regard, just talking in general).

That's another reason, as Pib said above, a lot of us try to avoid incurring the Thai bank ATM fees, even though we have U.S. accounts that by policy will reimburse them. The ATM fee rebates are the kind of thing that's great to have in a pinch, but probably best not over-used, if possible. That's why it's good to use AEON ATMs as a no-fee alternative, whenever possible.

As for your particular problem, you might go back and look very closely at the Terms and Conditions language for the particular Cap One account you opened, and see what exactly their language is about fee reimbursements for that account. It might give you some additional ammunition. It might not.

Edited July 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Since we're talking about Capital One here, perhaps it's a good place and time to try to recap where their various accounts fall in terms of expat issues. I did this review of their accounts in another thread here lately.

Cap One 360 checking:

--MasterCard logo debit card (not as favorable as VISA)

--no foreign currency fee charged by Cap One

--no rebates of other banks' ATM fees

--may have some small (less than 1%) fee by MC

--we have one member report thus far that his Cap One 360 card works in AEON ATMs. But no other reports as yet.

• 360 Checking Card ATM withdrawal: $1,000 per day
• 360 Checking Card purchases using your PIN: $5,000 per day
• 360 Checking Card purchases not using your PIN: $5,000 per day

https://home.capital...hecking-account

Then, for the regular Capital One Bank in areas where they have physical branches, they currently offer three other kinds of checking accounts -- Rewards Checking, Premier Rewards Checking and High Yield Free Checking, in addition to their 360 checking.

All of those accounts appear to now come with MasterCard logo debit cards, meaning like the Cap One 360 card, that their exchange rate is likely to be slightly lower than comparable VISA logo cards. Also, unfortunately, from all indications, none of those Cap One MasterCard logo debit cards appear to work at present with no-fee AEON ATMs, though they will work with regular Thai bank ATMs (and you'll pay a 180 baht fee charged by the Thai bank per withdrawal).

Also, when I looked at the details of Cap One's Rewards Checking and Premier Rewards Checking account, I was really surprised to see that Cap One has added foreign currency fees for ATM withdrawals from those two accounts -- perhaps to offset the rewards features. I couldn't tell/see whether they also have added FCF's for debit card purchases.

Here's the details of the charges for those two accounts (see the bottom of each image) -- $2 fee plus 3% for foreign country ATM withdrawals:

Rewards Checking.jpg

Premier Rewards.jpg

So because of the apparent incompatibility with AEON ATMs and the very un-Cap One-like policy of adding fees and foreign currency surcharges for foreign ATM use, those two regular Cap One accounts certainly would be ones to avoid, regardless.

The third type of regular Capital One checking account, High Yield Checking, has the same MasterCard debit card, but a different policy on ATM fees. It also requires a $5000 ongoing balance among your combined Cap One accounts or a Cap One home loan.

We will not charge you for using a non-Capital One Bank branded ATM to complete any transaction.
Plus, fees assessed at any ATM within the United States and at some ATMs located outside the United States will be reimbursed within 5 business days, up to $15 per statement period.

Not sure about the foreign currency fee for the High Yield Checking account.... Nor how Cap One would interpret the "some ATMs located outside the United States" language for ATM fee rebates.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Since we're talking about Capital One here, perhaps it's a good place and time to try to recap where their various accounts fall in terms of expat issues. I did this review of their accounts in another thread here lately.

Cap One 360 checking:

--MasterCard logo debit card (not as favorable as VISA)

--no foreign currency fee charged by Cap One

--no rebates of other banks' ATM fees

--may have some small (less than 1%) fee by MC

Are there any charges for using the Card?

If you use your Card for a foreign transaction (any transaction made in a foreign currency or that MasterCard® classifies as a cross-border transaction), we won't charge you anything. However, MasterCard may apply a charge for converting the purchase to U.S. Dollars.

--we have one member report thus far that his Cap One 360 card works in AEON ATMs. But no other reports as yet.

• 360 Checking Card ATM withdrawal: $1,000 per day
• 360 Checking Card purchases using your PIN: $5,000 per day
• 360 Checking Card purchases not using your PIN: $5,000 per day

Link for Cap One 360 info:

https://home.capital...hecking-account

Then, for the regular Capital One Bank in areas where they have physical branches, they currently offer three other kinds of checking accounts -- Rewards Checking, Premier Rewards Checking and High Yield Free Checking, in addition to their 360 checking.

All of those accounts appear to now come with MasterCard logo debit cards, meaning like the Cap One 360 card, that their exchange rate is likely to be slightly lower than comparable VISA logo cards. Also, unfortunately, from all indications, none of those Cap One MasterCard logo debit cards appear to work at present with no-fee AEON ATMs, though they will work with regular Thai bank ATMs (and you'll pay a 180 baht fee charged by the Thai bank per withdrawal).

Also, when I looked at the details of Cap One's Rewards Checking and Premier Rewards Checking account, I was really surprised to see that Cap One has added foreign currency fees for ATM withdrawals from those two accounts -- perhaps to offset the rewards features. I couldn't tell/see whether they also have added FCF's for debit card purchases.

Here's the details of the charges for those two accounts (see the bottom of each image) -- $2 fee plus 3% for foreign country ATM withdrawals:

Rewards Checking.jpg

Premier Rewards.jpg

Here's also what their debit card FAQ says on the subject:

1. Are there additional fees for using my Debit/ATM card to withdraw cash while traveling internationally?

   Yes. Capital One consumer accounts (except for High Yield Checking, High Interest Free Checking, Tower Gold Checking and Platinum Checking) will be charged a 3% fee on international ATM cash withdrawals from an ATM outside the U.S., Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands. This fee is in addition to fees that may be assessed by the ATM operator and the $2.00 foreign ATM fee that may be charged for using a non-Capital One Bank ATM.

So because of the apparent incompatibility with AEON ATMs and the very un-Cap One-like policy of adding fees and foreign currency surcharges for foreign ATM use, those two regular Cap One accounts certainly would be ones to avoid, regardless.

The third type of regular Capital One checking account, High Yield Checking, has the same MasterCard debit card, but a different policy on ATM fees. It also requires a $5000 ongoing balance among your combined Cap One accounts or a Cap One home loan.

We will not charge you for using a non-Capital One Bank branded ATM to complete any transaction.
Plus, fees assessed at any ATM within the United States and at some ATMs located outside the United States will be reimbursed within 5 business days, up to $15 per statement period.

Not sure about the foreign currency fee for ATM withdrawals via the High Yield Checking account.... Nor how Cap One would interpret the "some ATMs located outside the United States" language for ATM fee rebates. But Cap One's website says they won't charge the FCF for point of sale transactions.

In another location, they had somewhat different language for the High Yield checking account:

Capital One Bank will waive all foreign ATM fees and reimburse up to $15 of ATM fees charged to you during the current statement cycle. The following ATM fees are eligible for reimbursement: 1) fees incurred from other banks; 2) fees from Capital One Bank ATMs in gaming establishments; and 3) fees from certain other non-branch locations without Capital One Bank signage. Reimbursement will be within five (5) business days from the date the fees were assessed.

Edited July 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So, the upshot here at the moment is, Cap One doesn't look at promising as some other options.

The Cap One 360 account details, although perhaps promising, remain a bit unclear, as to foreign currency fee and compatibility with AEON ATMs.

Of the three regular Cap One checking accounts, two of the three clearly have sizable foreign currency and foreign ATM fees along with no rebates of other banks' ATM fees. The third has a high minimum balance limit. And it's not clear that any of those accounts' MasterCards at present will work with AEON ATMs.

Edited July 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

OK... let's try again here with a U.S. credit union that's open to all and appears to offer both no foreign currency fee checking accounts with a VISA debit card and a no foreign currency fee VISA credit card.

It's Associated Credit Union based on Georgia... Been around a long time, has in excess of $1 billion in deposits, and good financial ratings. Deposits have the standard $250,000 NCUA insurance. I read in a news item where their CEO said their main customer base is federal employees.

Associated Credit Union is headquartered in Norcross and is the 5^th largest credit union in the state of Georgia. It is also the 136^th largest credit union in the nation. It was established in 1930 and as of March of 2013, it had grown to 296 employees and 158,629 members. Associated Credit Union has a 5-star health rating.

http://www.depositaccounts.com/banks/associated-credit-union.html

They offer both Basic and Advantage checking accounts. The Basic has no monthly service charge, while the Advantage has a monthly service charge but that's waived with a $2500 balance. Both accounts have small per transaction fees if you do more than four non-ACU ATM or POS transactions per month (which is an unusual limitation). But they say they waive those fees if you keep a $1500 balance, or meet either of a couple of other criteria.

http://www.acuonline.org/home/products/checking

With their VISA debit card, there is a $1,500 daily spending limit for "credit" purchases.The spending limit for ATMs and debit purchases is $1,000.

And, more to the point, here's what their website says about foreign currency fees with their debit card:

What does ACU charge for using my ATM or Visa Check Card internationally?

At this time, we do not charge a fee for using your card internationally.

http://service.liveperson.net/hc/s-74617893/cmd/kbresource/kb-8925292769833126191/view_question!PAGETYPE?sf=101133&documentid=346003&action=view

Now, we might need to be careful in how we read that answer. In that, some institutions like Cap One say THEY don't charge any FCF... But they still pass along the card networks 1% fee. Need to check that here.

Here's what they say about membership eligibility and joining:

Everyone is welcome to join Associated Credit Union. Open your account online or complete our Membership Application, print, sign, and return it with your initial deposit(s) and a copy of your valid driver's license. Joint accounts require the identifying information of both applicants.

http://www.acuonline.org/home/membership/advantages

And finally, here's the link about their VISA Platinum Preferred Credit Card advertised with no foreign currency fee:

http://www.acuonline.org/home/products/credit

• 9.9% or 12% Annual Percentage Rate
• Fee-Free Balance Transfer
• No Annual Fee
• You'll Always Know Your Rate
• Grace Period of 25 Days
• No Minimum Finance Charge
• No Foreign Transaction Fee
• Paperless Statements

Looks promising???

Edited July 18, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

I opened a Capital One account. They advertised that they refund ATM service fees (including foreign ATM's) up to $25 per month. For the first month or two they were refunding the Thai ATM 150 Baht fee. Then they stopped, saying that the 150 Baht fee was not a service fee but a "foreign currency conversion fee" even though MasterCard is the one that handles FOREX conversion and rates. And, no it never has worked in an Aeon ATM.

I've been meaning to look into a Schwab account.

Anyone with experience or thoughts to share?

A case of the Reimbursement Golden Goose getting tired of spending too money on you. The Schwab Visa debit card works fine in Thai bank ATMs and AEON ATMs...and they reimburse any ATM fees monthly. However, I never use mine in Thai bank ATMs; only AEON ATMs since I have easy access to several AEON ATMs....and I really want to avoid if possible the Reimbursement Golden Goose spending too much money on me because it might upset them.

Very interesting feedback on what CapOne told you...maybe they are trying to figure out ways to disapprove reimbursement of certain ATM fees. Thanks for that crossfeed.

Pakaty,

I would like to add that if I was you I wouldn't let this issue drop based on this one conversation with CapOne.. I would send an email from your online CapOne account stating you haven't been reimbursed per CapOne's policy stating they do reimburse up to $25/month. Be sure to be specific as to which transaction it was on you account, and if the CapOne online email system allows attachments and you still have the ATM receipt include a picture/scan of that receipt showing the fee.

DO NOT mention anything about the earlier conversation you had with their CSR. It sure sounds like CapOne has given their CSRs some scripted answers on why certain ATM fees are not reimbursed in order to reduce the number of foreign ATM fees they reimburse....responses that might actually violate CapOne's "written policy/advertised policy" but CapOne is doing some unwritten interpretations of what they wish their written policy could say.

I think this is another good example of when a bank says they reimburse ATM fees, maybe unlimited per month or up to a certain dollar limit, that the devil-in-the-details/fine print may turn out to make it a pain to get reimbursed. By a pain, I mean always having to call for reimbursement, mailing in ATM receipts, and it some cases having to fight for the reimbursement. And the reason you had to fight will vary depending on the "reason(s) the bank initially gives as to why they didn't reimburse."

Several years ago when I first open my USAA Bank account which comes with a debit card which has a 1% foreign transaction fee but reimburses any other banks ATM fees up to $15/mo when I got the debit card I wanted to give it a full test in the ATM to ensure it worked and also to check their reimbursement policy. I withdraw Bt3,000 (approx. $100) from a Thai bank ATM (Bangkok Bank), the money spit out OK and the ATM receipt showed the separate Bt150 foreign card fee. Well, after a month or so/one monthly statement cycle, USAA had not reimbursed me. I called two times I think and talked to a CSR and each CSR told me they do automatically reimburse when the ATM fee is broken out separately from the basic withdrawal. I even emailed once basically pointing out I didn't get reimbursed for transaction XYZ...please take another look and reimburse.

Now the transaction that hit my USAA account showed as a combined charge which just had the Bt150 mixed in with the Bt3,000 withdrawal...so it just showed a charge of Bt3,150 (in USD of course) hitting my USAA account. USAA was basically saying the transaction from the Thai bank ATM must show the separate fee---I said it sure shows a separate fee on my ATM receipt...but on my USAA account it's been mixed in with the cash withdrawal amount.

Anyway, in my opinion, the ATM transaction transmitted was indeed clearly breaking out the separate fee, but the way USAA processed the ATM withdrawal they (USAA) were not breaking-out/detailing/showing the ATM withdrawal transaction did include a fee. Or said another way USAA mixed the fee into the cash withdrawal amount.....then that makes it look like just one amount was included in the transaction...so how could the bank tell if a fee was included in that amount. To this day, I'm still not buying their response that the Thai bank ATM didn't transmit the transaction data showing the cash amount along with the fee amount.

However, I did get the fee reimbursed. After those two calls to USAA and one nice email to then basically saying please reimburse me, I then got more serious as it was not obvious to me USAA wasn't going to reimbursement without a fight so to say. Go to this older ThaiVisa thread where the OP opens the thread talking about how USAA didn't reimburse a friend of his...the friend had to send in a copy of the receipt because USAA told him the Thai bank used for the ATM withdrawal (KrungThai Bank) didn't breakout the fee separately...but the KrungThai bank ATM receipt did indeed show a separate fee. After reading the OP's post scroll down to my Post #7 where I described how I submitted an online request, along with a copy of my receipt, from my USAA online account requesting reimbursement. And I did use serious words and tone in that request...right or wrong, I was now in the mode of thought that USAA was just using throwing obstacles in the road to minimize foreign ATM reimbursements. They reimbursed shortly after that.

And although USAA is one of my primary banks (it's a very, very good bank overall), their debit card just lives in my safe due to the 1% foreign transaction fee and the work you may need to go through to get reimbursed for a foreign ATM withdrawal. I figure it's just an obstacle (i.e., you must send in a copy of the ATM receipt) they intentionally use in their reimbursement procedures system to minimize the number of foreign ATM fees they end up reimbursing. Foreign fees which on the average are probably significantly higher than a withdrawal from an ATM in the U.S.

Maybe the response CapOne gave you is one of their unwritten, intentional obstacles they use to minimize ATM fee reimbursements. Maybe I'm completely wrong; maybe I'm not. These type of possible obstacles are something that can only be found out from reading the experiences of other bank members. Good luck on the reimbursement if you go after it again.

Pib

[Pakaty]

Thanks for the feedback re: Schwab and Capital One.

I would have to agree that Capital One (and 360) is currently not worth bothering with. I just went to capitalone.com to confirm exactly what type of account I have. Clicking on personal banking redirects to Capitalone360.com now and they sure aren't offering the same services that I signed up for any longer. I had to log into my account including resetting my security questions since it has been so long since I have used it. Any way I have an "Interest Online Checking" account that has no minimum balance. Again Capital One refunds ATM fees (including foreign) up to a a max of $25 a month. They just won't refund the 150 baht Thai bank fee as they say its a currency exchange fee and not a service fee. I'm not looking to fight with cap 1 about this. I just quit using them as the only reason I opened an account with them was to save on ATM fees. I just wanted share my experience with them as they are mentioned in this thread and I have been meaning to pursue new banking options. I see sharing my experience doesn't even matter since Cap 1 no longer offers this type of account. Good thread, thanks for sharing all your research.

Oh forgot to mention the other limitation of this account is that I can only withdraw $600 per day or per transaction...I forget which it is. But I would much rather go to BKK Bank and take out 25'000 B at a time rather than the 18'000 ($600) or so that I am limited to.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Cap One tailors their banking offerings based on what U.S. zip code you enter when prompted on their website...

If you enter a zip code for an area where they don't have physical branches, you'll just get Cap One 360 choices.

If you enter a zip code for an area where they do have physical branches, you'll get a broader range of account offerings.

But re Pakaty's comment above, I think it's worth distinguishing between Cap One's debit card vs. their credit card offerings.

Re their debit cards, they seem to be going in the wrong direction for expats by moving to MasterCard (which has a poorer exchange rate compared to VISA cards) and adding fixed and foreign currency fees to their various checking accounts.

However, re their credit cards, Cap One continues to offer a variety of credit card products that for sure have no foreign currency fees, and also have other attractive features like cash back or travel rewards....

Right now, I'd only be looking at Cap One for their expat friendly credit card products...not their checking accounts.

Edited July 18, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[SurfRider]

.
For whatever it's worth, it might be useful to mention that there have been recent reports of Schwab closing accounts of Expats living overseas.

"Schwab just closed my US account probably because they assumed that I lived overseas. It was a great run while it lasted. They suggested that I apply for their international account. It appears that the debit card the international account issues has the same features as the US Schwab one. The one main difference is that the US account is a banking account while the international one is a brokerage account."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/646955-schwab-one-personal-international-account/?p=6511874
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[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hi SR... Yes... that was one recent report from Vagabond...but no indication that there's any broader problem occurring for Schwab Bank accounts.

Nonetheless, whether it be with Schwab or any of the other U.S. financial institutions, that's why I always advise to keep all the contact info, addresses, phones, etc tied to one's U.S. residence.

Anything less than that is asking for trouble...if not from one institution, then from another. If not now, then in the future.

[SurfRider]

.
It is the responsibility of any CEO or CFO of any corporaton to maximize profits and minimize expenses.

Given the proliferation of Thailand's Schwab Debit Card Expats- taking advantage of Schwab's liberal reimbursement policy toward the Thai Banker's Assn. 150 Baht per transaction usury fee - I would expect that the enormous cost to Schwab of tolerating this policy would eventually pop up on their radar screen and force a decision to write Thailand off as loser.

For all Expats currently taking advantage of the Schwab ATM reimbursement policy, let's hope I'm wrong . . . Of course, there's always the AEON ATM no-fee option, but I know many Expats who don't bother with AEON because of Schwab's liberal fee reimbursement policy. Only time will tell.
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Edited July 18, 2013 by SurfRider

[Pib]

From googling seems a Schwab bank account/debit card is popular for expats living in or visiting any foreign country, not just Thailand. If Schwab every stops or limits ATM reimbursements I expect it will be a business decision based on worldwide costs, not just Thailand. But expats in Thailand would still have been a part of helping to kill the Reimbursement Golden Goose if they routinely used Thai bank ATMs when they could have easily used AEON ATMs. And if Schwab stops or starts limiting ATM reimbursements that would most likely give Golden Goose abusers motivation to use AEON ATMs since it would then be money coming out of the person's pocket vs Schwab's.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I know Pib and I are pretty much the same about this...

I think I've maybe had one Schwab ATM fee reimbursement for anything in the past two years or so... I just don't use regular Thai bank ATMs, because I don't want Schwab to be paying ATM fees for the greed of Thai bankers (not that they're the only ones with that trait).

Some folks don't have any AEON ATM near where they live or work, so they don't have the choice. But for those who use U.S. bankcards and who live in the area where an AEON ATM is located, it's not so tough to simply get into the habit of making AEON ATMs your ATM of choice.

As a customer, I'm voting with my feet, and choosing not to do business with ATMs that I consider to be charging excessive fees.

[JimGant]

Schwab's debit/atm card is certainly a top choice. However, that they're showing some non-friendly indications towards expats is of concern. Besides closing an expat's account (isolated case, as of now), we've seen where applying on-line -- even using a US address -- was denied because the IP address showed the application was coming from Australia. Schwab does somewhat cater to expats (and non-citizens) -- but indications are that, if they know you're a full time expat, the want you to have their international card (which has too many hoops for my liking).

And, I saw where using a US mail forwarding address was problematic for an expat (can't remember the details -- it wasn't Schwab related).

Where to go if (when?) all the good deal atm cards evaporate? Easy. A Bangkok Bank account, and ACHing from a US bank that doesn't charge for ACH transfers. The cost for a $2k transfer -- .6% (off the buying TT rate); for $5k, .5%; for $10k, .25%; and for $20k, .15%. Better than using a card that only passes on the network's 1% fee -- and way better than those cards that add on their own fees.

And, you don't have to worry about whether or not your card issuer will reimburse your atm fee -- or driving into town to stand in line for the Aeon machine. Or coming up against your card's daily limit. And, using your moo baan's local bank atm machine has some security benefits -- and if the machine malfunctions, just go grab your friend the bank manager.

As Pib says, US credit cards are still the way to go, however. Cash reward features -- and their superior fraud protection definitely make them winners over Thai plastic.And fee free credit cards with these features are pretty widespread, particularly when compared to the fee free debit/atm cards.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I wouldn't start running for the exits Jim....

Whatever issues we've seen with Schwab thus far have been isolated instances from all indications. And it certainly doesn't help if the account holder does things, intentionally or unknowingly, that signal to Schwab that they're an international customer.

However, even if Schwab were to disappear as an option entirely, there are still a variety of other no-FCF debit card options out there, including ones that reimburse international ATM charges. Although certainly, Schwab with its policy of unlimited, automatic, no-hassle reimbursements is best in breed.

As long as AEON is around and in the same situation, folks in most cities have AEON as a no-fee option and don't need to worry much about getting Thai bank ATM fees reimbursed. And can just focus on no FCF (foreign currency fee) cards.

And even if I was out in the countryside and away from AEON and didn't have a Schwab account, there are enough other fee-reimbursing options out there that would enable me to get along fine.

Needless to say, it's never a good financial plan to put all your eggs in one basket. I know in my case, I have multiple no fee, fee-reimbursing options available so that in the event one of them runs dry, there are others to pick up the slack.

That's the point of this thread, afterall, to let folks know what different no-fee options are out there, and hopefully to find new ones along the way.

But I do understand you have a soft spot in your heart for BKK Bank and their New York ACH-international transfers... They too are a best in breed account... just in a different category.

Edited July 18, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[stoli]

I've been meaning to look into a Schwab account.

Anyone with experience or thoughts to share?

Re the Schwab account, it's probably the easiest, cleanest, simplest no-fee account out there for expats or travelers.

Lots of people here have experience with them, and it's mostly good. No fees, no minimums, good and free ACH transfer system, no foreign currency fees or non-network ATM charges, and they rebate other banks' ATM fees, domestic and international.

You do have to open a companion Schwab One brokerage account, but there's no balance requirement or usage requirement for it. Also, if you're going to open a Schwab account, you definitely want to do that via your U.S. address, and best to keep that as your ongoing address of record.

There's a reason I put them at the top of the list of no-fee accounts I posted above.

After hearing about how great Schwab was, I made the mistake of contacting them from here in Thailand. I got a reply back from one of their International V.P.'s complete with tons of paperwork to open the account. It said in no uncertain terms that I would have to open a brokerage account, as you stated, but also mentioned that I would have to fund that account with a minimum of $10,000 US. I already have my brokerage accounts set up with another firm in the states and did not want to move the money just for ATM fees. Plus, of course, staying mostly in the Chonburi province, I don't pay ATM fees with my Bangkok Bank account.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Stoli, you made the mistake of contacting Schwab as a resident of Thailand, ie, an international customer. I know it's been said many times here, not to do that.

You want to deal with Schwab as a U.S. customer, and can open your account online, provided you have some kind of U.S. address to receive mail such as their debit card, account opening documents, etc etc. No $10K account opening minimum, and many other differences.

BTW, it's not just Schwab... As I've said many times here, you really don't want to be an international resident in dealing with U.S. banks i general. Always keep and use a U.S. residence address.

[JimGant]

You want to deal with Schwab as a U.S. customer, and can open your account online, provided you have some kind of U.S. address to receive mail such as their debit card, account opening documents, etc etc. No $10K account opening minimum, and many other differences.

As posted somewhere else on this forum, opening your account online with Schwab -- from outside the US -- will generate a non-US IP address -- and this will, even with using a US address on the application, cause a rejection.