Best No Fee & Low-Fee Bank Cards for Americans 2013-

[Pib]

If you can please provide a few specific links to that rosey consumer protection data. Not links to the home pages of those agencies but specific sublinks to the data/articles you remember reading. Thanks.

Sent from my tablet

[Pib]

Fletch,

Also, are there any Thai credit cards you can recommend for farangs in terms of foreign transaction fee, interest, annual fee, consumer protection, ability to obtain without a work permit, etc?

Sent from my tablet

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Bit silly posting a few links to complaints with one side of the story, and extending to say there is no protection and your money is not safe. You can google any bank in the world and see customer complaints, plenty of cases where US accounts had been hacked and account holders have either suffered the loss or taken years to get a bank to settle. It may be better than Thailand, but it would be naive to believe half the story read on the web or in a newspaper is representative. The "because I'm a farang" line is just laughable

If you're not satisfied with your bank as first point of call - you can go to the regulator. The last data I remember reading from the BOT's Financial Consumer Protection Centre which deals with complaints about things like fraud, ATM issues etc, claimed that over 90% (can't remember exact numbers) of the issues raised with them had been resolved. That's a very good ratio in my book for something that you say doesn't exist.

BTW Pib/John As for wanting more information, have you ever actually contacted BOT or the Financial Consumer Protection Centre? What did they say when you contacted them and wanted to learn more? You have contacted them right?

It's more than a bit silly, I'd call it insulting, to dismiss the legitimate losses of fellow members here and others who have had their money stolen and gotten no help from their banks or Thai police. Note the general pattern depicted above: You're had money stolen from your account, you go to the bank, and basically, neither the bank nor the police are much interested in doing anything.

Also note, the examples above involved a variety of different Thai banks, not just one... And those accounts by various TV members took me about 5 minutes to cull from the various threads here on ATM fraud and bank account theft. Are you suggesting they're all liars in their posts? Really? Now look thru ThaiVisa and try to find member reports who either promptly or reasonable easily were able to get satisfaction from their banks... You'll find few, very few.

Though all the threads on bank card fraud, if folks here had opposite experiences/good experiences with their Thai bank, you'd think they'd be quick to chime in and say so... But no.. you won't find many of those instances because...they're the rarest exception.

As for the BOT, as I've posted previously here, I did call them sometime back, and spoke on the phone with a manager there, and asked him to provide me with or even point me to any pertinent BOT regulations or other provisions regarding customer liability for bank card fraud. He promised to check and get back to me. Never did. Called again. No response. Called again. No response.

All of the above pretty much tells any non-banker exactly what they need to know about Thai banks and their commitment to consumer protection. It doesn't exist.

Edited August 8, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[fletchsmile]

PIB/ John

So you haven't actually been in touch with FCPC - you can walk in and ask as I'm sure you know and have also never bothered.

Plus you've no first hand experience of these things nor probably people you actually know. Actually in a personal capacity as a non-banker I've never had any such problems with an ATM fraud or Credit Card issues you mention nor has anyone I know in a couple of decades.

Key point is while you may be helping your fellow country men in some small ways in saving a few hundred baht here and their on rates, and perhaps even a one in 10,000/100,000 chance (or whatever) of losing a few thousand baht from an ATM, by advising people to stay away from Thai banks as they are "not safe" and "no protection" and to keep all their money in US banks, for people who don't know better they might be losing thousands of dollars a year over the last decade - like you- on exchange rates and interest rates. That's assuming you actually need say USD 250,000 FIDC (or even say a balance USD 100,000) protection you see as so important.

You're cutting off your nose to spite your face in worrying about a few thousand baht on a very low probability vs real losses of hundreds of thousands of baht for most US citizens in FX losses alone. There's a good chance those real US losses will also continue for every US citizen in Thailand on exchange rates and interest rates in the next decade. Not to mention all the other risks with the US system.

So, yes consumer banking protection is weaker here, but I just thought I'd point out the bigger picture, and show a bit more balance. Thailand does have some advantages and intelligent people should spread their risks - of all kinds. It does also offer some consumer protection contrary to your claims. You're obviously struggling to grasp it, but others may find it useful to see a wider picture and a bit more balance from people who actually know a bit more (from outside and inside the industry) and are less subjective.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited August 8, 2013 by fletchsmile

[Pib]

Fletch

Everytime you are asked to provide some specific links/articles/other posts to backup your generalized comments you don't. Can you provide any specifically related to consumer protction...like where I asked you above...even if it's just to some other Thai bank websites talking consumer protection.

Also another factor in consumer protection is the Thai-English communication barrier. If something goes wrong with a home country card the consumer can communicate with their home country bank and consumer protection agencies in English in the consumer can better understand what actions he needs to take to resolve the issue. If something goes wrong with a card say a Thai credit/debit card then the Thai- English communication bump can turn into a real road block in communicating the problem and what agencies to work with. Can't really blame that on the Thai banking system but it is a factor.

Do I use Thai debit cards, savings accounts, and fixed savings accounts? Sure I do. Plenty of posts by me regarding usage of such cards and accounts. But I have no delusions that the consumer protection would match up to my home country consumer protection and therefore take the appropriate precautions.

Some links?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[CaptHaddock]

The lack of consumer banking protections is certainly a reason for a foreigner not to bring his assets into Thailand, but, in my opinion, not the major reason, which is that we don't have the right to live here and we don't have the right to repatriate assets we have imported. Except for the very few with permanent residence, we only have a one-year renewable permission to live in Thailand. At any time a renewal could be denied. It's also true that this appears to be a low-order risk and we don't hear stories about renewals of non-imm visas being denied. But when we assess risks we have to think not only of the likely worst cases, but of the worst, worst cases. If all your assets were in Thailand and you were either forced to leave the country or decided on your own that continuing is untenable, because of political violence, for instance, you could find yourself alienated from your savings. That would be such a dire outcome that I, for one, am unwilling to accept such a risk, even though it means I must bear currency risk instead. Currency risk may hurt me, but is unlikely to destroy me since I can always eliminate that risk by returning home, if necessary.

[fletchsmile]

If you can please provide a few specific links to that rosey consumer protection data. Not links to the home pages of those agencies but specific sublinks to the data/articles you remember reading. Thanks.

Sent from my tablet

The latest incarnation of consumer protection is the FCC. Like other countries they reshape from time to time - eg FSA in UK is now PRA. Why not go and see them.

http://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialLiteracy/Pages/FCC%20Strategy.aspx

http://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialLiteracy/Pages/index.aspx

Fletch,

Also, are there any Thai credit cards you can recommend for farangs in terms of foreign transaction fee, interest, annual fee, consumer protection, ability to obtain without a work permit, etc?

Sent from my tablet

Why would you use a credit card and incur foreign transaction fees? Use your US card in US and Thai Card in Thailand?

Don't use a credit card if you can't afford to pay off the balance or are forgetful or don't know what a direct debit is. Pay it off in full each and every month by direct debit and never pay interest. That way the interest rate is irrrelevant

Annual fee - plenty out there without them. If your bank tries to impose one, just threaten to cancel your card. Or use your loyalty points, or have enough assets in the bank so its free or pick a card that only requires you to spend X per month/ year and is fee free.

Without a work permit? Often you will need to put money down at first to guarantee the card for a year or so. Hardly surpising if you see the difficulty of assessing non-working foreigners who refuse to put assets in Thailand, and also see the massive problems the US have with credit card defaults. The US has problems with giving cards out too freely, why would Thailand want to do that to foreigners who are harder to trace, and refuse to put reasonable sums with them. However, if you've been a good customer of a bank, are a priority customer, have a relationship, your spouse works, or spouse has one etc etc, you may be able to get one without this. My (Thai) wife has her own platinum card in her name as a priority banking customer, and has zero earned income.

Basically build up a relationship with your bank so they know you. But it's catch 22 if you won't give them any money. Also you need an attitude rethink, belligerent Americans or any other westerners who bang their fists or ram it down the throats of polite staff how much better the US is, and how they can do this and that in US, Thailand is 3rd world, no protection etc just turn off otherwise helpful Thai staff. A personal referral from other trusted foreigners can also help. Just like referees for a job or any other thing really. I refer people from time to time who I trust and help them get accounts or cards. Basically comes down to KYC (Know Your Customer). Your'e a foreigner. Banks don't know you and they don't need your business either as you're a minority, but like any relationship if you build trust and are polite you can get there.

Someone like the posters above have just go about it all the wrong way. Belittling and criticising Thais, saying how much better the US is. Continually ranting about how Thailand is terrible and no protection. If I were a Thai bank staff I'd just choose to ignore them - indeed that's why the Bangkok Bank guys on here went that route and ignore certain posters - they're more hassle than worth.

Cheers

Fletch

[fletchsmile]

The lack of consumer banking protections is certainly a reason for a foreigner not to bring his assets into Thailand, but, in my opinion, not the major reason, which is that we don't have the right to live here and we don't have the right to repatriate assets we have imported. Except for the very few with permanent residence, we only have a one-year renewable permission to live in Thailand. At any time a renewal could be denied. It's also true that this appears to be a low-order risk and we don't hear stories about renewals of non-imm visas being denied. But when we assess risks we have to think not only of the likely worst cases, but of the worst, worst cases. If all your assets were in Thailand and you were either forced to leave the country or decided on your own that continuing is untenable, because of political violence, for instance, you could find yourself alienated from your savings. That would be such a dire outcome that I, for one, am unwilling to accept such a risk, even though it means I must bear currency risk instead. Currency risk may hurt me, but is unlikely to destroy me since I can always eliminate that risk by returning home, if necessary.

Fair enough.

On the right to live here, I think that's something else that gets blown well out of proportion. I'd been told about that too when I first arrived. Over the decades though as you say you realise the risk is very low. I don't know (or have even heard of) any legitimate person that's been booted out of Thailand and refused entry to ever come back. One year at a time is a pain in the a**e.

Same as don't invest in Thailand. I've done very well on that while the west has been declining. Obviously didn't bring all my money here, but made the right move of hedging my bets and not betting solely on the good old west, and how much safer it was back home.

Repatriating assets is again something blown out of proportion I got told about that too. Reality is keep all your paperwork, be legitimate and you'll be able to do it. May be a few admin hassles as this is Thailand.

Worst case scenarios? Shouldn't you also be considering collapse of US banking system/ government default/ gradual (or sudden) loss of position of being able to just print money and people buy it, collapse of US society/ riots on the streets, government confiscating your gold, pension, bailing in vs your deposits etc. Thailand has it's own risks tru, but can also help mitigate many of the risks that exist back home. The US (UK etc) aren't what they used to be

As an expat you've an excellent change to spread your risks between back home and Thailand.

Cheers

Fletch

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Someone like the posters above have just go about it all the wrong way. Belittling and criticising Thais, saying how much better the US is. Continually ranting about how Thailand is terrible and no protection. If I were a Thai bank staff I'd just choose to ignore them - indeed that's why the Bangkok Bank guys on here went that route and ignore certain posters - they're more hassle than worth.

Fletch...your thinly veiled personal insults don't fly here... That's what people do when they can't prevail in a legitimate debate on the facts and merits.

I speak my mind and tell the truth here, and don't keep changing the subect every time someone challenges me. But that by no means mean I've ever been rude or inpolite with any Thai bank staff. And I too have a variety of accounts with a variety of Thai banks.

Howver, the bottom and simple fact is: I don't trust them to keep any meaningful amount of my money, and for good reasons.

As for the BKK Bank guys, still waiting on them to fulfill their promise to post the bank's cardholder liability policy here or on their website. AFAIK, they never have. Wonder why...

Edited August 8, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

If you can please provide a few specific links to that rosey consumer protection data. Not links to the home pages of those agencies but specific sublinks to the data/articles you remember reading. Thanks.

Sent from my tablet

The latest incarnation of consumer protection is the FCC. Like other countries they reshape from time to time - eg FSA in UK is now PRA. Why not go and see them.

http://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialLiteracy/Pages/FCC%20Strategy.aspx

http://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialLiteracy/Pages/index.aspx

Yea, I've known about this fairly new BOT FCC site/organization for a while and have given the link to folks have banking issues/complaints, like on 1 Aug when I gave this person the link for their banking issue in another thread. Can't speak to how effective the organization has been as the organization's web pages appear just give contact info and overview info. And I stumbled across it before by googling; not because I found it on any Thai bank web site or documents they hand out, news media advertising, etc. Would be nice to hear some feedback from folks who have used the FCC....maybe there has been some...I just haven't seen it...the person I gave the link to is apparently giving it a try.

Edit: correction of link.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Pib

[Pib]

Since this thread has got rather heated, I would just like to post a particular weblink again which I think provides a lot of good basic Thai banking information. Specifically, it's Bangkok Bank's Expat Banking Booklet. It's only 28 pages long, written in layman's language, and easy reading. If the link don't work/happens to change you should be able to find the booklet by going to the Bangkok Bank home page, under Personal Banking, Foreign Customers, then look in the upper right hand corner of the page....or at least that's where it's located right now.

Although it describes Bangkok Bank products/services like opeing an account, debit & credit cards, etc., a lot of the info in the booklet can generally apply to other Thai banks also since they all must comply with the same Thai financial laws and Bank of Thailand regulations...and have some similar products/services to Bangkok Bank. Additionally, on beginning on page 24 it takes Safe Banking in Thailand.

It's some really informative reading (me thinks).

[vagabond48]

John/Pib, just a bit of observation. It appears the thread has been invaded by trolls and continuing to reply to their "smelly" buts, just kicks in the "groundhog day" cycle. Just my 2 cents. This and the previous thread has been a great source of information for American financial based cards.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think that's a very good observation, Vagabond, and one I've felt bad about as we lately veered seriously off-topic and off-point. So let me try, once again, to correct that...

1. By posting an updated version of the No Foreign Currency Fee Accounts list that reflects the information and insights contributed by various members here...

and 2. By reminding everyone (myself included) that, for other and broader issues and debates, there's a different thread on general banking subjects for Americans in Thailand that is better suited for such things.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As of Fall 2013, here's our own locally sourced list of some of the various U.S. bank card products that have no-fee cards. To be included here, usually, these banks and credit unions typically have to allow new accounts to be opened online, for convenience and other obvious reasons. They also have to be either nationally or generally/widely available.

U.S. VISA or MC logo Debit cards with no foreign currency fees (FCF) & online account opening:

Charles Schwab

High-Yield Checking with required Schwab One brokerage account.

VISA debit card with no FCF that automatically refunds other banks' ATM fees worldwide (unlimited) at month’s end.

Open to U.S. residents, but requires U.S. address of record for the accounts.

No monthly fees. No minimum required to open or keep open for both the checking and brokerage accounts. No trading required. Confirmed by ThaiVisa members.

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account/checking_account_faqs

________________________________________________________________________

State Farm Bank

http://www.statefarm...rd-checking.asp

Their website lists both Free Checking and Interest Checking accounts, both with no FCF VISA debit cards and ATM fee reimbursements including outside the U.S. Confirmed by ThaiVisa members.

Free Checking:

· No monthly fees or minimum balance requirements. $25 to open.

· ATM fee rebates — $10 per statement cycle or unlimited with direct deposit.

Interest Checking:

· Interest accrued daily with a minimum daily balance of $2,500. $100 to open.

· ATM fee rebates — $10 per statement cycle or unlimited with direct deposit.

“State Farm Bank® will not charge you for the use of ATMs not owned by the Bank (considered foreign ATMs). Further, the Bank will rebate a foreign ATM surcharge imposed by the ATM owner in any amount assessed against a State Farm Bank Checking, Interest Checking, or Money Market Savings account provided that there is a direct deposit via an Automated Clearing House (ACH) credit into that account during the statement cycle of the foreign ATM transaction.

“If there has been no direct deposit via an ACH credit into the State Farm Bank Checking, Interest Checking, or Money Market Savings account during the statement cycle, the Bank will rebate up to a total of $10 in foreign ATM surcharges per account per statement cycle.

“For International ATM Fees incurred traveling outside of the U.S., please call us at 1-877-734-2265 to have your rebate applied to your account. For those customers who receive up to $10 per statement cycle, the amount of the International ATM Fee Rebate will be deducted from your $10 benefit.”

http://www.statefarm.com/bank/aboutbank/disclosures/pricing-schedule-deposits.asp

______________________________________________________________________

Fidelity Brokerage

Fidelity Cash Management Account

Provides VISA debit card and unlimited reimbursement of other banks' ATM fees, including those outside the U.S.

Fidelity says it charges a 1% foreign currency fee, but ThaiVisa members here say they don't charge that fee.

No minimum to open and no monthly maintenance fees. But intended for U.S. residents with valid U.S. address.

Like Schwab, to open the CMA account with Fidelity you will need to open a companion brokerage-type account.

“All Fidelity ATM withdrawal fees will be waived for your Fidelity Cash Management Account. In addition, your account will automatically be reimbursed for all ATM fees charged by other institutions while using a Fidelity Visa^® Gold Check Card linked to your account, at any ATM displaying the Visa^®, Plus^® or Star^® logos. The reimbursement will be credited to your Fidelity Cash Management Account the same day the ATM fee is debited from the account.

“Please note, there is a foreign transaction fee of one percent that is not waived, which will be included in the amount charged to your account.”

https://www.fidelity.../atm-debit-card

_____________________________________________________________________

Service Credit Union

Service Plus Checking Account

CU membership available to anyone who has a family member who's either current or former military in any capacity. Confirmed by ThaiVisa members.

VISA debit card with a 1% foreign currency fee. The 1% FCF will be refunded up to $20 per month, and other banks' ATM fees will be refunded up to $20 per month, both automatically at month's end for qualifying checking accounts with direct deposit “of entire net pay” such as from a pension benefit. SCU also doesn’t charge any ATM fees of its own for up to 20 non-SCU ATM withdrawals per month.

https://www.servicecu.org/civilian/content/FreeAtms.asp?

Membership Eligibility and Requirements:

https://www.servicecu.org/civilian/content/openFundAnAccount.asp?lg=&lv=C4

https://www.servicecu.org/civilian/content/Membershipeligibility.asp?lg=e&vt=&lv=C4

____________________________________________________________________

Stanford Federal Credit Union in California

E-Checking Account with VISA debit card and no foreign currency fee. They say no minimum balance and no monthly fee. But membership requires a minimum $100 opening deposit, $50 for a share account and at least $50 for a checking account. Not yet confirmed by any ThaiVisa members.

https://www.sfcu.org/personal/checking/compare

https://www.sfcu.org/personal/checking/cards

With the E-Checking account, SFCU doesn’t charge for customers using non-SFCU ATMs. But in order to reimburse other banks’ ATM fees, SFCU requires a $500/month direct deposit.

https://www.sfcu.org/members-service/resources-and-tools/fees

“There are NO annual fees for your QUAD Card. Transactions at Stanford FCU ATMs are FREE. Standard ATM fees will apply, just as they do on your ATM Card (see Fee Schedule). Some non-Stanford FCU ATMs may apply a surcharge fee to your transaction, as they do with the ATM Card. This fee is charged by the company who owns the ATM, not by Stanford FCU. However, if you open select Stanford FCU checking accounts or have a monthly direct deposit of $500 or more into your checking account, we will reimburse you for the surcharges!).”

https://www.sfcu.org/personal/checking/cards/faqs#debitfaq19

“The daily cap for ATM or POS cash withdrawals is $550. Your purchase activity is limited by the available balance in your checking account. A daily cap of $5,000 has been initiated for your protection. For purchases over $5,000 made during Stanford FCU’s business hours, the credit union can be called for authorization. You may also call for authorization in advance, if you are planning to make purchases during non-business hours.”

https://www.sfcu.org/personal/checking/cards/faqs#debitfaq16

For those without other Stanford Federal Credit Union eligibility factors, you can still open an account online and become a member:

https://www.sfcu.org/members-service/assistance/how/online

“We Support the Museum of American Heritage and Friends of the Palo Alto Library

If you do not fall within our regular field of membership, you can join the Museum of American Heritage (MOAH) or Friends of the Palo Alto Library (FOPAL). Membership is open to anyone.”

https://www.sfcu.org/about/what/who

­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­______________________________________________________________

Associated Credit Union in Georgia

Basic and Advantage Checking

Open to all and appears to offer both no foreign currency fee checking accounts with a VISA debit card and a no foreign currency fee VISA credit card. $25 to open. Not yet confirmed by any ThaiVisa members.

“Associated Credit Union is headquartered in Norcross and is the 5^th largest credit union in the state of Georgia. It is also the 136^th largest credit union in the nation. It was established in 1930 and as of March of 2013, it had grown to 296 employees and 158,629 members. Associated Credit Union has a 5-star health rating.”

http://www.depositac...edit-union.html

The Basic Checking has no monthly service charge, while the Advantage Checking has a monthly service charge but that's waived with a $2500 balance. Both accounts have small per transaction fees if you do more than four non-ACU ATM or POS transactions per month (which is an unusual limitation). But they waive those fees if you keep at least a $1,500 balance, or meet either of a couple of other criteria.

http://www.acuonline...oducts/checking

With their VISA debit card, there is a $1,500 daily spending limit for "credit" purchases.

The spending limit for ATMs and debit purchases is $1,000.

Here's what their website says about foreign currency fees with their debit card:

“What does ACU charge for using my ATM or Visa Check Card internationally?

At this time, we do not charge a fee for using your card internationally.”

http://service.liveperson.net/hc/s-74617893/cmd/kbresource/kb-8925292769833126191/view_question%21PAGETYPE?sf=101133&documentid=346003&action=view

Here's what they say about membership eligibility and joining:

“Everyone is welcome to join Associated Credit Union. Open your account online or complete our Membership Application, print, sign, and return it with your initial deposit(s) and a copy of your valid driver's license. Joint accounts require the identifying information of both applicants.”

http://www.acuonline...ship/advantages

Meanwhile, here's the link about their VISA Platinum Preferred Credit Card advertised with no foreign currency fee:

http://www.acuonline...products/credit

• 9.9% or 12% Annual Percentage Rate
• No Annual Fee
• No Foreign Transaction Fee

_________________________________________________________________

TD Ameritrade Brokerage

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/654140-best-no-fee-low-fee-bank-cards-for-americans-2013/page-3#entry6676666

ThaiVisa member Pib has posted comments from TD Ameritrade card holders who report they get the same foreign exchange rates with TD Ameritrade as they get with Schwab and Fidelity. TDA’s website says they offer unlimited ATM fee reimbursements nationwide, but no indication if those ATM rebates apply outside the U.S.

ThaiVisa member TwentyBaht also has confirmed the TD Ameritrade card has no foreign currency fee:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/654140-best-no-fee-low-fee-bank-cards-for-americans-2013/page-3#entry6679138

For U.S. accounts, ATM withdrawals of up to $1000 per day and POS transactions up to $5000 per day.

Cash Management Account

• No monthly maintenance fees, no minimum balance requirements
• Unlimited check writing and free standard 100 re-orders
• Free online bill pay
• Avoid ATM fees—you get reimbursed for any ATM charges nationwide (unlimited)

https://www.tdameritrade.com/pricing/brokerage-fees.page

Here’s what TD Ameritrade’s VISA debit card disclosure document states at the top of page 3, which doesn’t really answer the question about any FCF or whether international ATM fee rebates are provided:

https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_us/resources/pdf/TDA1837.pdf

________________________________________________________________

Capital One 360

360 Checking

--MasterCard logo debit card (not as favorable as VISA), and no rebates of other banks' ATM fees.

Also, ThaiVisa members Pib and TheCheeseStandsAlone have calculated that the CapOne 360 card appears to be passing along a 0.02% foreign currency fee from MasterCard, although CapOne 360 says they don’t charge a FCF of their own.

Meanwhile, we do have two member reports thus far that their Cap One 360 cards work fine in AEON ATMs, unlike prior C1 debit cards.

• 360 Checking Card ATM withdrawal: $1,000 per day
• 360 Checking Card purchases using your PIN: $5,000 per day
• 360 Checking Card purchases not using your PIN: $5,000 per day

_____________________________________________________________

--Then there are any number of smaller banks and credit unions that serve state or local markets that don't charge foreign currency fees, and some also refund other banks' ATM fees. But they only make accounts available to those with a U.S. address in their local service area. That's why it's hard to post a lot of info on those here, and even to necessarily know all those that don't charge any FCF.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

AEON ATMs

And of course, at the Thailand end of things, all the Thai banks currently are charging 150b per withdrawal for foreign VISA cards and 180b per withdrawal for foreign MasterCards. But as many already know, there is a way to avoid those fees, and that's to use the no-fee AEON ATMs that are located in most larger cities in Thailand. Their ATMs will accept most VISA and MasterCard logo debit cards and charge no local withdrawal fee. Put those together with a no foreign currency fee U.S. debit card, and you're golden!!!

Edited August 8, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[LivinginKata]

Post insulting another member has been removed ..

forum rule 1) To respect fellow members.

forum rule 4) Not to flame fellow members.Flaming will not be tolerated. 'Flaming' is defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, to launch personal attacks, to insult, or to be hateful towards other members. This includes useless criticism, name-calling, swearing and any other comments meant to incite anger.

[sas_cars]

I think that's a very good observation, Vagabond, and one I've felt bad about as we lately veered seriously off-topic and off-point. So let me try, once again, to correct that...

1. By posting an updated version of the No Foreign Currency Fee Accounts list that reflects the information and insights contributed by various members here...

and 2. By reminding everyone (myself included) that, for other and broader issues and debates, there's a different thread on general banking subjects for Americans in Thailand that is better suited for such things.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As of Fall 2013, here's our own locally sourced list of some of the various U.S. bank card products that have no-fee cards. To be included here, usually, these banks and credit unions typically have to allow new accounts to be opened online, for convenience and other obvious reasons. They also have to be either nationally or generally/widely available.

U.S. VISA or MC logo Debit cards with no foreign currency fees (FCF) & online account opening:

Charles Schwab

High-Yield Checking with required Schwab One brokerage account.

VISA debit card with no FCF that automatically refunds other banks' ATM fees worldwide (unlimited) at month’s end.

Open to U.S. residents, but requires U.S. address of record for the accounts.

No monthly fees. No minimum required to open or keep open for both the checking and brokerage accounts. No trading required. Confirmed by ThaiVisa members.

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account/checking_account_faqs

________________________________________________________________________

State Farm Bank

http://www.statefarm...rd-checking.asp

Their website lists both Free Checking and Interest Checking accounts, both with no FCF VISA debit cards and ATM fee reimbursements including outside the U.S. Confirmed by ThaiVisa members.

Free Checking:

· No monthly fees or minimum balance requirements. $25 to open.

· ATM fee rebates — $10 per statement cycle or unlimited with direct deposit.

Interest Checking:

· Interest accrued daily with a minimum daily balance of $2,500. $100 to open.

· ATM fee rebates — $10 per statement cycle or unlimited with direct deposit.

“State Farm Bank® will not charge you for the use of ATMs not owned by the Bank (considered foreign ATMs). Further, the Bank will rebate a foreign ATM surcharge imposed by the ATM owner in any amount assessed against a State Farm Bank Checking, Interest Checking, or Money Market Savings account provided that there is a direct deposit via an Automated Clearing House (ACH) credit into that account during the statement cycle of the foreign ATM transaction.

“If there has been no direct deposit via an ACH credit into the State Farm Bank Checking, Interest Checking, or Money Market Savings account during the statement cycle, the Bank will rebate up to a total of $10 in foreign ATM surcharges per account per statement cycle.

“For International ATM Fees incurred traveling outside of the U.S., please call us at 1-877-734-2265 to have your rebate applied to your account. For those customers who receive up to $10 per statement cycle, the amount of the International ATM Fee Rebate will be deducted from your $10 benefit.”

http://www.statefarm.com/bank/aboutbank/disclosures/pricing-schedule-deposits.asp

______________________________________________________________________

Fidelity Brokerage

Fidelity Cash Management Account

Provides VISA debit card and unlimited reimbursement of other banks' ATM fees, including those outside the U.S.

Fidelity says it charges a 1% foreign currency fee, but ThaiVisa members here say they don't charge that fee.

No minimum to open and no monthly maintenance fees. But intended for U.S. residents with valid U.S. address.

Like Schwab, to open the CMA account with Fidelity you will need to open a companion brokerage-type account.

“All Fidelity ATM withdrawal fees will be waived for your Fidelity Cash Management Account. In addition, your account will automatically be reimbursed for all ATM fees charged by other institutions while using a Fidelity Visa^® Gold Check Card linked to your account, at any ATM displaying the Visa^®, Plus^® or Star^® logos. The reimbursement will be credited to your Fidelity Cash Management Account the same day the ATM fee is debited from the account.

“Please note, there is a foreign transaction fee of one percent that is not waived, which will be included in the amount charged to your account.”

https://www.fidelity.../atm-debit-card

_____________________________________________________________________

Service Credit Union

Service Plus Checking Account

CU membership available to anyone who has a family member who's either current or former military in any capacity. Confirmed by ThaiVisa members.

VISA debit card with a 1% foreign currency fee. The 1% FCF will be refunded up to $20 per month, and other banks' ATM fees will be refunded up to $20 per month, both automatically at month's end for qualifying checking accounts with direct deposit “of entire net pay” such as from a pension benefit. SCU also doesn’t charge any ATM fees of its own for up to 20 non-SCU ATM withdrawals per month.

https://www.servicecu.org/civilian/content/FreeAtms.asp?

Membership Eligibility and Requirements:

https://www.servicecu.org/civilian/content/openFundAnAccount.asp?lg=&lv=C4

https://www.servicecu.org/civilian/content/Membershipeligibility.asp?lg=e&vt=&lv=C4

____________________________________________________________________

Stanford Federal Credit Union in California

E-Checking Account with VISA debit card and no foreign currency fee. They say no minimum balance and no monthly fee. But membership requires a minimum $100 opening deposit, $50 for a share account and at least $50 for a checking account. Not yet confirmed by any ThaiVisa members.

https://www.sfcu.org/personal/checking/compare

https://www.sfcu.org/personal/checking/cards

With the E-Checking account, SFCU doesn’t charge for customers using non-SFCU ATMs. But in order to reimburse other banks’ ATM fees, SFCU requires a $500/month direct deposit.

https://www.sfcu.org/members-service/resources-and-tools/fees

“There are NO annual fees for your QUAD Card. Transactions at Stanford FCU ATMs are FREE. Standard ATM fees will apply, just as they do on your ATM Card (see Fee Schedule). Some non-Stanford FCU ATMs may apply a surcharge fee to your transaction, as they do with the ATM Card. This fee is charged by the company who owns the ATM, not by Stanford FCU. However, if you open select Stanford FCU checking accounts or have a monthly direct deposit of $500 or more into your checking account, we will reimburse you for the surcharges!).”

https://www.sfcu.org/personal/checking/cards/faqs#debitfaq19

“The daily cap for ATM or POS cash withdrawals is $550. Your purchase activity is limited by the available balance in your checking account. A daily cap of $5,000 has been initiated for your protection. For purchases over $5,000 made during Stanford FCU’s business hours, the credit union can be called for authorization. You may also call for authorization in advance, if you are planning to make purchases during non-business hours.”

https://www.sfcu.org/personal/checking/cards/faqs#debitfaq16

For those without other Stanford Federal Credit Union eligibility factors, you can still open an account online and become a member:

https://www.sfcu.org/members-service/assistance/how/online

“We Support the Museum of American Heritage and Friends of the Palo Alto Library

If you do not fall within our regular field of membership, you can join the Museum of American Heritage (MOAH) or Friends of the Palo Alto Library (FOPAL). Membership is open to anyone.”

https://www.sfcu.org/about/what/who

­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­______________________________________________________________

Associated Credit Union in Georgia

Basic and Advantage Checking

Open to all and appears to offer both no foreign currency fee checking accounts with a VISA debit card and a no foreign currency fee VISA credit card. $25 to open. Not yet confirmed by any ThaiVisa members.

“Associated Credit Union is headquartered in Norcross and is the 5^th largest credit union in the state of Georgia. It is also the 136^th largest credit union in the nation. It was established in 1930 and as of March of 2013, it had grown to 296 employees and 158,629 members. Associated Credit Union has a 5-star health rating.”

http://www.depositac...edit-union.html

The Basic Checking has no monthly service charge, while the Advantage Checking has a monthly service charge but that's waived with a $2500 balance. Both accounts have small per transaction fees if you do more than four non-ACU ATM or POS transactions per month (which is an unusual limitation). But they waive those fees if you keep at least a $1,500 balance, or meet either of a couple of other criteria.

http://www.acuonline...oducts/checking

With their VISA debit card, there is a $1,500 daily spending limit for "credit" purchases.

The spending limit for ATMs and debit purchases is $1,000.

Here's what their website says about foreign currency fees with their debit card:

“What does ACU charge for using my ATM or Visa Check Card internationally?

At this time, we do not charge a fee for using your card internationally.”

http://service.liveperson.net/hc/s-74617893/cmd/kbresource/kb-8925292769833126191/view_question%21PAGETYPE?sf=101133&documentid=346003&action=view

Here's what they say about membership eligibility and joining:

“Everyone is welcome to join Associated Credit Union. Open your account online or complete our Membership Application, print, sign, and return it with your initial deposit(s) and a copy of your valid driver's license. Joint accounts require the identifying information of both applicants.”

http://www.acuonline...ship/advantages

Meanwhile, here's the link about their VISA Platinum Preferred Credit Card advertised with no foreign currency fee:

http://www.acuonline...products/credit

• 9.9% or 12% Annual Percentage Rate
• No Annual Fee
• No Foreign Transaction Fee

_________________________________________________________________

TD Ameritrade Brokerage

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/654140-best-no-fee-low-fee-bank-cards-for-americans-2013/page-3#entry6676666

ThaiVisa member Pib has posted comments from TD Ameritrade card holders who report they get the same foreign exchange rates with TD Ameritrade as they get with Schwab and Fidelity. TDA’s website says they offer unlimited ATM fee reimbursements nationwide, but no indication if those ATM rebates apply outside the U.S.

ThaiVisa member TwentyBaht also has confirmed the TD Ameritrade card has no foreign currency fee:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/654140-best-no-fee-low-fee-bank-cards-for-americans-2013/page-3#entry6679138

For U.S. accounts, ATM withdrawals of up to $1000 per day and POS transactions up to $5000 per day.

Cash Management Account

• No monthly maintenance fees, no minimum balance requirements
• Unlimited check writing and free standard 100 re-orders
• Free online bill pay
• Avoid ATM fees—you get reimbursed for any ATM charges nationwide (unlimited)

https://www.tdameritrade.com/pricing/brokerage-fees.page

Here’s what TD Ameritrade’s VISA debit card disclosure document states at the top of page 3, which doesn’t really answer the question about any FCF or whether international ATM fee rebates are provided:

https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_us/resources/pdf/TDA1837.pdf

PS0124.jpg

________________________________________________________________

Capital One 360

360 Checking

--MasterCard logo debit card (not as favorable as VISA), and no rebates of other banks' ATM fees.

Also, ThaiVisa members Pib and TheCheeseStandsAlone have calculated that the CapOne 360 card appears to be passing along a 0.02% foreign currency fee from MasterCard, although CapOne 360 says they don’t charge a FCF of their own.

Meanwhile, we do have two member reports thus far that their Cap One 360 cards work fine in AEON ATMs, unlike prior C1 debit cards.

• 360 Checking Card ATM withdrawal: $1,000 per day
• 360 Checking Card purchases using your PIN: $5,000 per day
• 360 Checking Card purchases not using your PIN: $5,000 per day

_____________________________________________________________

--Then there are any number of smaller banks and credit unions that serve state or local markets that don't charge foreign currency fees, and some also refund other banks' ATM fees. But they only make accounts available to those with a U.S. address in their local service area. That's why it's hard to post a lot of info on those here, and even to necessarily know all those that don't charge any FCF.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

AEON ATMs

And of course, at the Thailand end of things, all the Thai banks currently are charging 150b per withdrawal for foreign VISA cards and 180b per withdrawal for foreign MasterCards. But as many already know, there is a way to avoid those fees, and that's to use the no-fee AEON ATMs that are located in most larger cities in Thailand. Their ATMs will accept most VISA and MasterCard logo debit cards and charge no local withdrawal fee. Put those together with a no foreign currency fee U.S. debit card, and you're golden!!!

Can someone confirm if any of these banks/credit unions offer accounts to foreigners which are non resident in the US? I can confirm that Schwab does, with it's Schwab one International brokerage account. Are there any others?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If I understand your question, you're asking about an applicant who is a] not a U.S. citizen or legalized resident and b] not physically living in the U.S.

For most U.S. banks and credit unions, I think that's going to be a NO... AFAIK, they usually want someone with a physical address of record in the U.S. and someone who is either a U.S. citizen or has some other legal permission to reside in the U.S.

Some of the brokerage houses, like Schwab and Fidelity, I gather, do make their brokerage accounts, or an international version of their brokerage accounts, available to those outside the U.S. I'm not especially familiar with those, but my impression is the international brokerage account with Schwab has different terms and conditions from their domestic U.S. accounts.

Here's the link for Schwab Internation's account opening page. And as one example, it requires a minimum of $10,000 U.S. to open that account, whereas the domestic U.S. version has no such requirement.

http://www.schwab-global.com/public/schwab-gcb-en/what_we_offer/accounts_features/open_an_account.html

I see they advertise a "No-fee U.S. dollar debit card" for accessing available funds in the brokerage account. But I don't know whether their international account includes an ATM fee refunds.

Edited August 8, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Here's a couple of links to short & sweet articles on U.S. debit and credit cards:

1. 5 Little Known Credit Card Benefits

2. Should You Use a Credit or Debit When Shopping Online.

Below is a partial quote from this article regarding differences in fraudulent purchases protection depending on whether you used a debit or credit card.

...it may help to know that there are laws in place that protect you from fraudulent purchases or credit card theft. In fact, using a credit card for online purchases is the smartest way to go when shopping online. Thanks to the Fair Credit Billing Act, your liability for unauthorized credit card charges is limited to no more than $50, as long as you report the charge within 60 days of the incident. Even then, most credit card issuers offer zero liability protections that would waive the $50 fee in credit card fraud/theft cases.

Debit cards, on the other hand, are tied directly to your bank account and even if you report the theft immediately, you may have to wait several days to get your money back. If you report the theft within two business days of the transaction, your liability is limited to $50 but if you wait any longer, your liability jumps to $500. Wait longer than 60 days and you’re liable for the full amount. When shopping online, always choose credit over debit just to be safe.

[fletchsmile]

Someone like the posters above have just go about it all the wrong way. Belittling and criticising Thais, saying how much better the US is. Continually ranting about how Thailand is terrible and no protection. If I were a Thai bank staff I'd just choose to ignore them - indeed that's why the Bangkok Bank guys on here went that route and ignore certain posters - they're more hassle than worth.

Fletch...your thinly veiled personal insults don't fly here... That's what people do when they can't prevail in a legitimate debate on the facts and merits.

I speak my mind and tell the truth here, and don't keep changing the subect every time someone challenges me. But that by no means mean I've ever been rude or inpolite with any Thai bank staff. And I too have a variety of accounts with a variety of Thai banks.

Howver, the bottom and simple fact is: I don't trust them to keep any meaningful amount of my money, and for good reasons.

As for the BKK Bank guys, still waiting on them to fulfill their promise to post the bank's cardholder liability policy here or on their website. AFAIK, they never have. Wonder why...

I think your mixing up the word "truth" with opinion, half stories, web site postings and prejudice and preconceptions.

I've no idea why just because someone posts something on Thai Visa you take it as a "truth" without wondering about the other half. Ever more bizarre is when people who post something and actually know about the subject you ignore it if it doesn't fit your paradigm, or just because you haven't personally seen it.

Statements like "there is no protection", "Thai banks are unsafe" and so on are not truths they're your own opinions. Not truths.

If you look back through the posts, whenever something is raised about why Thai banks have good points and sometimes lower risk, you keep on with the same broken record. You continually mix up consumer protection and prudential issues, as well as ignore the wider contexts.

As I've a bit of spare time I'll highlight a few of your erroneous comments which you continually churn out as a broken record to try and prove a point - not just on this thread but time and again on others...

...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib..I believe the second portion you quoted above relating to debit cards is not quite accurate... The U.S. legal standard capping liability at $50 is if you report the card lost or stolen within two business days from the time you become aware of the card loss/theft...not two days from the time of the fraudulent transaction in question.

Obviously, if someone's card is instead skimmed or their information otherwise compromised, they might not even be aware that a fraudulent transaction has occurred, and a lot of U.S. banks still don't offer any kind of immediate transaction notification via email or SMS. So the regulation also makes a different, extended allowance for those cicumstances.

If someone makes unauthorized transactions with your debit card number, but your card is not lost, you are not liable for those transactions if you report them within 60 days of your statement being sent to you.

But obviously, it's prudent to keep an eye on your accounts and balances, so you can catch any problem or fraud ASAP.

Here's the very good Federal Trade Commission website on such matters:

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-credit-atm-and-debit-cards

The nice part is, as you know, the U.S. fraud protection rules cover ATM withdrawals and POS transactions made outside the U.S., so long as the bank card involved is one issued by a U.S. institution.

And then for U.S. bank card customers, beyond the federal law/regulation, VISA and MC may have their own additional or supplemental "no fraud liability" policies for their logo cards. But as we've all learned, those reassuring card networks policies mean absolutely nothing, and don't cover, Thai bank issued VISA and MC logo cards (or cards issued in many other countries as well).

[fletchsmile]

Bangkok Bank Will Not Payback Fraudulent Pos Transactions W/Stolen Atm Card

http://www.thaivisa....tolen-atm-card/

Worker Withdraws 9 MillionTHB From Krung Thai Bank

http://www.pattayada...rung-thai-bank/

Chonburi Lady Loses 15,000 THB To Faulty Bank ATM

http://www.pattayada...aulty-bank-atm/

Must Read---- How My Friend Lost 15K Baht W His Bangkok Bank Debit Visa

http://www.thaivisa....ank-debit-visa/

Multi Million ATM Fraud 2 Frenchmen Arrested

http://www.pattayada...hmen-arrested/\

Nonthaburi Millionaire Reports 107 Million Baht Missing From Her Bank Account

http://www.pattayada...r-bank-account/

Re Bangkok Bank this statement is incorrect or at best half a truth. While you continually labour the point Thai banks are not automatically liable for losses on cards until reported this does not mean that they never pay it back. Most banks will look case by case. So your rants earlier "it doesn't matter that..." "it doesn't matter that..." are simply untrue. It does matter banks will often look at the surrounding factors on a case by case basis. It is simply that they are not automatically on the line like in the US until reported. It doesn't mean the bank will do nothing whatsoever, nor that the bank will not address it.

Re the worker fraud. I really don't see your point. It happens the world over including the US that employees commit fraudulent acts. If you read the Financial Institutions Act of 2008 you'll also see that the employee is punishable for it, and it is a criminal offence, it is also addressed in the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code.

Re: The ATM Fraud. I would note the conclusion is there are other possibilities and the police are contacting a suspect for questioning. I look forward to your posting the rest of the story of what happened in the end. What you'll likely find is the newspaper doesn't bother with a follow up, as only bad news sells so we might never know but I look forward to your sleuthing.

For ATM errors firstly they are rare, and secondly it often turns out not to be an ATM error at all. Believe it or not people forget to take their money, leave their cards, make mistakes, try it on and try and con. Banks reconcile the end of day. Most people who are involved in ATM "mistakes" investigations ( I recall a poster on here the other day) would tell you more often than not, it isn't the machine

Re Must Read. Would be nice to have the full picture of what really happened and the circumstances rather than an account by one person of his friend, but I guess you don't have that do you. Also note the difference between a debit and credit card in terms of how transactions are processed. I'm currently having an issue between my Vietnam debit card provider and Qatar airways in reclaiming money for a failed booking where the transcation didn't go thru but I got charged. A debit card takes it directly from your account there and then so much harder to address. I tried using my Stan Chart Thai Visa card for the same transaction and the booking also failed. In that case it was much easier for them to redress and was stopped before it hit my statement as it didn't go automatically from my account there and then.

Re Skimming: Yes this happens the world over. Congratulations for noticing it in Thailand too.

Re Millionaire. Yes sounds a bit weird, and possibly more than meets the eye. Assuming it's just straight forward: Basics are that an employee may have stolen some money. See the earlier comment of so what, this happens the world over. As far as I read it's being investigated and evidence is being gathered. I don't see the problem why this means that a Thai bank is different than any other country. Again FI Business Act 2008 and Thailand Civil and Commercial Code cover this.

So if we sum up:

2 are addressed by existing laws and happen pretty much anywhere. Also the 2 largest individual amounts. The others are small amounts, or in the case of skimming a series of small amounts for different people : For the bank employee frauds FI Act 2008 and Thai Civil Commercial Code. Or any you saying that in your expert opinion these two pieces of legislation don't cover this? Please explain why if so...

1 (BKK bank) the title and your continual claims give half the reality. Although not automatically liable, the circumstances do matter, and banks will look into it

1 ATM fraud - do a bit more reading on statistics on ATM errors + a follow up as to the outcome of the pending investigation. Banks the world over do investigations, sometimes even in the US

1 Skimming - suggest you google US cyber frauds for comparisons

1 petty theft on a debit card with a loss of a few thousand baht, without the whole story

Hardly justifies mass scale loss of large money without recompense with full stories.

BTW Here's a link to a ppt from a BOT presentation that mentions they cover missing money as part of the top two complaints on deposits. Now which one would a rationale person believe - you saying "no protection" because you've heard it on a blog - or a director of BOT presenting in HK. Next you'll be telling us they made it up.

http://www.oecd.org/daf/fin/financial-education/HKSeminar2012S1Sriphayak.pdf

Here's a link to the 90+% success figure I quoted, though not the original source I had. I just googled it as I knew it would be there - it may surprise you I don't make it up. You can find the same stat in other places too. Not necessarily proof I know being on a web, but hopefully make you guys a little happier now it's in black and white on the web you'll believe it more

http://www.cflri.org.nz/financial-literacy/hub/community-hub/bank-thailand-taking-tips-sorted

Unfortunately I don't keep much of the old stuff I used to have on these sort of things,but , and normally I don't bother finding links. I'm not a subscriber to having to provide a link on the web somewhere to something for it to "be true" I have my own brain, capable of memory as well as opinions. Of course I understand that for you reading it here on Thai Visa is what's real "truth"

Particularly interested in your comment on the 2 employee frauds as I still don't get it, and think you've no idea of what the law actually says on this. So please explain why you think Thai law doesn't address it?

Cheers

Fletch

{Edit: here's the link I referred to someone posted the other day, saying in 15 years working on ATMs and machines, it was rarely the machine. It holds with most people I've ever heard working in this field - although I wouldn't go as far as "never" it's very rare.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/658026-bad-experience-with-kasikorn-bank/ }

Edited August 8, 2013 by fletchsmile

[Pib]

Pib..I believe the second portion you quoted above relating to debit cards is not quite accurate... The U.S. legal standard capping liability at $50 is if you report the card lost or stolen within two business days from the time you become aware of the card loss/theft...not two days from the time of the fraudulent transaction in question.

Obviously, if someone's card is instead skimmed or their information otherwise compromised, they might not even be aware that a fraudulent transaction has occurred, and a lot of U.S. banks still don't offer any kind of immediate transaction notification via email or SMS. So the regulation also makes a different, extended allowance for those cicumstances.

If someone makes unauthorized transactions with your debit card number, but your card is not lost, you are not liable for those transactions if you report them within 60 days of your statement being sent to you.

But obviously, it's prudent to keep an eye on your accounts and balances, so you can catch any problem or fraud ASAP.

Here's the very good Federal Trade Commission website on such matters:

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-credit-atm-and-debit-cards

The nice part is, as you know, the U.S. fraud protection rules cover ATM withdrawals and POS transactions made outside the U.S., so long as the bank card involved is one issued by a U.S. institution.

And then for U.S. bank card customers, beyond the federal law/regulation, VISA and MC may have their own additional or supplemental "no fraud liability" policies for their logo cards. But as we've all learned, those reassuring card networks policies mean absolutely nothing, and don't cover, Thai bank issued VISA and MC logo cards (or cards issued in many other countries as well).

Good catch, TallGuy. Yeap, the article I referenced does having an error regarding debit card consumer protection/liability. Indeed it should be two business days after your become aware of an unauthorized transaction vs within two business days of the transaction as confirmed by this FDIC webpage/chart on A Quick Guide for Consumers on Credit, Debit, and Prepaid Cards.

When taking a look at above webpage, notice were it addresses the consumer protection/liability for a "prepaid" debit cards--much different and less protection than a standard debit card as quoted below.

Pre-Paid Debit Card: Liability depends on the type of funds on the card. If the card is a payroll card, then the liability rules are the same as for debit cards. But if the card is a general purpose reloadable card or a gift card, then there are no protections to limit your liability under federal law.

And here's another FDIC webpage talking about debit cards....what caught my eye was the part (quoted below) that talked how long banks have to investigate a reported unauthorized transaction and report back to you.

What federal protections cover consumers who use debit cards?

The federal Electronic Fund Transfer Act (EFTA) protects you from errors, loss or theft of your debit card. However, unlike the Truth in Lending Act protections for credit cards, which cap a consumer's liability for unauthorized transactions at $50, the law limits liability to $50 if the debit cardholder notifies the bank within two business days after discovering the theft. If you don't notify your bank within those two days, you could lose up to $500, or perhaps more. In the worst-case scenario — if you receive a bank statement that includes an unauthorized debit-card withdrawal and you wait more than 60 days to alert your bank — you could be liable for any amounts from transactions made after that 60-day period.

The good news is that many banks don't hold a consumer responsible for unauthorized transactions if he or she notifies the institution in a timely fashion. But remember that with a debit card, the money tapped by the thief has already been taken out of your account.

Under the EFTA, a bank has 10 business days to investigate the matter (20 business days if your account is new) and report back to you with its results. If the bank needs additional time, it may, under certain circumstances, temporarily give you some or all of the disputed amount until it finishes its investigation. Generally, a bank is allowed up to 45 days of additional investigation time (90 days for certain transactions). "But until the dispute is resolved," said Creamean, "you should be prepared to pay your mortgage, car payment, credit card bill and any other obligations that may come due." Also, she said, if the bank's investigation finds there was no error, theft or loss, it can take back the money it put into your account, after notifying you.

[fletchsmile]

Personally, I've never had money stolen from my Thai bank accounts, because I don't and won't keep enough money in them to enable any theft.

Unfortunately, quite a few other ThaiVisa members can't say the same. Here's just a sampling of what they've reported on Thai banking "consumer protection":

I had my TMB ATM card stolen a few years ago. Within 5 minutes the thieves had run up a bill of 56,000 baht in a local shop, even though the card said "for electronic use only". Bank denied responsibility, and police did very little (probably should have offered the copper a reward). After being very angry for a few days, I just used it as a learning experience. After all "it's only money" and "nobody die".

Edited by eyebee, 2011-11-20 15:21:05.

-----------------------------------------

A friend of mine has a savings account at the Bangkok Bank for sole use of receiving funds from the U.K. 4,000 GBP every three months. There was no ATM card issued for this account.

Then just last week, spurious withdrawals of 1000/2000/5000 Baht had been made and were shown updated in the passbook.

Because he is 'farang' no real action has been taken and the financial losses have not be recognised. They are still under 'investigation'.

I would imagine that in the U.K. it would be rectified quickly. I wonder just how 'safe' Thai banks are. I am now considering reducing my account levels, or else opening five or six more accounts at different banks to spread the risk.

---------------------------------------

PHUKET: -- German expat Dirk Schmidt had B600,000 skimmed from his Kasikornbank account in early January, and more than four months later is still waiting for developments in the case.

The money was taken from his account on January 5, 6 and 7 this year – B200,000 each day, his account’s daily withdrawal limit. Bank records show the money was taken in around 30 different transactions, at three different ATMs on Koh Samui, while Mr Schmidt was in Phuket.

-------------------------------------

Best of luck with this bank policy. I had 50,000 baht skimmed about 18 months ago from Kasikorn bank and I had really no explanation or interest from them in my loss. Too bad was their reaction. I cancelled my ATM card and only use my book for transactions. Sure it's a pain, but better than the worry about fraud.

------------------------------------

I found SCB totally useless when I had my card stolen and used fraudulently to take 20k out of my account - thankfully that's all that was in there - 2 years ago. Had a police report to prove my wallet was stolen before the transactions were made but SCB refused to cancel my card when I went into the branch the moment it opened as I couldn't give them my account number (I was on Samui and didn't take my Bangkok branch bank book on holiday) and they "couldn't find me" on the system!!

John,

Didn't get chance to finish the additional info I promised yesterday as I ended up trading. Here's some links to Schwabb bank - the first bank on your recommended list (some for the related companies of course). Forgive me if I don't bother with the others, as the answer is obvious - you can do this for almost any bank in the world. Thailand is no exception.

Took about 5 mins. In contrast to the days on end you spend posting this stuff, and repeating it as if it will become "true" and the "the only version of the truth" the more times you repeat it.

Another big difference is I can see it for what it is in the great scheme of things, and don't advise other posters based on it. I prefer instead to post facts and personal experience about Thai banks. Both good and bad to boot, not just the negative hearsay.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/directory/charles-schwab

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/schwab.html?page=2

http://www.fbi.gov/saltlakecity/press-releases/2012/eagle-man-indicted-on-federal-charges-of-wire-fraud-and-theft

http://www.mybanktracker.com/Charles-Schwab-Bank/Reviews/sorted/latest/2

“Deceitful, indifferent, bad bank” “Awful”

“Terrible customer service, inaccurate advice”

“Our opinion of Schwab Bank mortgage is they are not to be trusted at all!!”

“Opening a bank account online with Charles Schwab is the worst experience dealing with a bank ever.”

“The Worst For A Refinance Mortgage - Stay Away!!!”

“The Mortgage Services entity is HORRIBLE! They will ROB you of $500”

“Schwab's Mortgage Service Can be a rip off!”

https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=16856

http://www.glassdoor.ca/Reviews/Employee-Review-Charles-Schwab-RVW2202255.htm

BTW Treat the last few posts as one-offs - I've a bit of time on my hands. This won't be the case after today - I guess that's another difference...

Edit: For the record, while trading out of Thailand I didn't use a Schwabb account as I don't trust them with all the frauds they've had

Edited August 9, 2013 by fletchsmile

[chubby]

fwiw, my usa vpn, has like 40 servers in san francisco, so as long as you just switch between them, you could say 'san francisco'

strange they would ask you that security question, unless it was one you , yourself created, doesn't seem right

On some of those questions -- "What color of car did you drive" 20 years ago -- I suspect they're storing the answer to verify your identity again at a later time. Thus even if you don't remember and are forced to guess, it's a good idea to make a note of the answer you gave. And yes, it's gotten so that you have to look up old addresses and such before you call a credit card company or bank.

Another problem is that sometimes you're asked the location where you normally sign in, and using TOR or a VPN you never really know. If you're talking to CS you can explain, but when you get an online entry box there's no good way to handle it.

[chubby]

excluding, capone360, after schwab visa debit.

what would be the next prefered visa debit card for AEON ATM use ?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Among the many many U.S. VISA logo debits cards that are available, obviously you'd prefer one that charges no foreign currency fee and refunds some level of other banks' ATM charges, including those outside the U.S.

The list I posted above has a recap of all the details about those various cards...and the different terms/requirements/benefits associated with each.

It's really a personal matter for different people of just what things are important to them in their bank account. There isn't a one size fits all solution here. All U.S. VISA-logo debit cards are going to work fine in AEON ATMs...

Cap One's older MasterCard-logo debit cards (not the newer Cap One 360 MasterCard ones) are the only ones that anyone here has reported any compatibility problem with regarding using in AEON ATMs.

It's also simpler and cleaner, I'd say, for anyone thinking of traveling to Thailand to establish those kinds of bank accounts and cards BEFORE they depart...so the whole U.S. residence address/Internet IP address issue doesn't become any complication during the account opening process.

New accounts certainly can also be done once someone is already visiting outside the U.S. But there can be occasional difficulties or complications. So planning ahead means someone can avoid any of those issues.

It's also best, I'd say, to arrange a couple different accounts that meet your needs. Never put all your eggs in one basket. Because, you never know when a particular bank or CU is going to change their policies, impose some new and unwanted fee, get bought out by some other institution, or even if you happen to lose or have a debit card stolen.

That way, with multiple accounts and cards, you're reasonably protected against those kinds of unpleasant and unexpected surprises... and not left high and dry.

Edited August 11, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[taxout]

Just to be clear, I haven't actually gotten the "color of old car" question in those terms. But I have gotten a list of 5 or so models of cars and asked which of them I once owned. Presumably they get the information from DMV or credit bureau records. I certainly never gave them the information.

[Langsuan Man]

Just to be clear, I haven't actually gotten the "color of old car" question in those terms. But I have gotten a list of 5 or so models of cars and asked which of them I once owned. Presumably they get the information from DMV or credit bureau records. I certainly never gave them the information.

My biggest and only problem with State Farm Bank is their silly security questions that are culled from public records by a contractor for SF. The one that drives me up the wall is when my house in the US was built. That information is not on my deed, nor on my property tax bill, or anywhere else but at the County Court House and State Farm actually had the nerve to tell me that I should go there and find out when it was built so that I could answer their silly question

They also like to list past addresses and you are supposed to guess which one relates to you. After over 40 years in the military and working for government agencies it becomes quite a chore to try and remember all my past addresses. One that they list is from a package forwarding company that I used when I had an APO address

I wish I would get a car question, since that is the only area of my life that I remember with extreme clarity

BTW. Just trying a new browser will trigger these outsourced security questions from State Farm Bank

[Pib]

I don't get asked such credit bureau/public records type questions when logging onto my St Farm bank account. But occassionally I do get asked the preselected questions which I selected the correct answer. Apparently the credit bureau/public records type Q&A isn't applied to all accounts; instead the customer selected Q&A are still also used.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

[Langsuan Man]

I don't get asked such credit bureau/public records type questions when logging onto my St Farm bank account. But occassionally I do get asked the preselected questions which I selected the correct answer. Apparently the credit bureau/public records type Q&A isn't applied to all accounts; instead the customer selected Q&A are still also used.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

No other option is available for new accounts at State Farm Bank.(circa 2013) It was a corporate decision to outsource the security questions to a private vendor. Even it you call them or have them call you they don't have access to the answers to the new system.

Every other bank or credit card company I deal with does use questions that you pick and answered previously. In some of the banking forums this is one of the main complaints about State Farm Bank.

If it wasn't for their ATM card being accepted by AEON, I wouldn't even bother with SFB

[Pib]

I hope those credit agency/public records type questions don't start popping up for me, because like Langsuan Man I've got such a wide number of locations (U.S. and overseas) that I've lived at while in the military/civil service with both civilian and military addresses while owning homes/vehicles, having mortgages/loans, etc., that I'm sure some questions that would come up that are just too many decades back to remember. Heck, it's hard enough to remember much about your last address much less addresses and other info form many years back. I haven't had any issues with State Farm and the only reason I opened a bank account with them was to get their no foreign transaction fee debit card which I use a lot in Thailand...works fine...knock on wood. I even used State Farm's at home check deposit (via scanning the check) this week to deposit two medical reimbursement checks...worked easy and fine. So far after being with SFB for a couple of year everything has been OK...knock on wood. Their logon screen is basically identical to Schwab Bank...sometimes I have to do a double-take to ensure I'm logging onto the right bank website...maybe Schwab and SF banks are using the same underlying software for their online banking.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Pib