'Trayvon Martin could have been me' - Barack Obama

[Steely Dan]

Some people wish it was. However I don't have a dog in this fight so I don't care.

Oh c'mon. You gotta appreciate the ridiculous unpresidential like statement. Better than Gore's I invented the Internet.

I agree, very unpresidential. However, I guess a lame duck can say whatever is really on his mind. I doubt a first term Obama would have uttered such a statement...

The statement was black presidential. We'd never had that before, so it may seem stranger to some among us than it does to others.

If you mean Prez Obama didn't have the speech transparencies flanking him, or didn't stand straight upright, didn't act formal or speak authoritatively or forcefully, then it wasn't a presidential style of formatted speech.

Prez Obama spoke extemporaneously, in a quiet voice, a calm tone, used two note cards which the media reports say he may have twice glanced at, didn't gesture much if at all. It wasn't a state of the union style or format of delivery.

It was black presidential, thoughtfully addressing for the first time the point of view of the black population of the United States spoken by a black man twice elected president, who spoke at a time an open wound was festering throughout the country.

Prez Obama is the first president who doesn't need a Booker T Washington to advise him on life in the USA as a black man or from the perspective of the African-American population of the country. Prez Obama is it and has lived it despite the fact some people try to deny him the reality of his existence as a black man.

I'm amazed at what some people can miss about the first black president in the context of both recent events concerning the trial in Florida and the initiating event of 17 months ago in Sanford, Florida.

We are talking about our country, are we not?

Just in case it escaped you president Obama's mother is white, to characterize himself as black is to deliberately downplay this fact. He could have acted as a bridge between black and white people, instead he cynically tries to make political capital out of the perennial black victim card. Incidentally by stating our Country are you referring to all the people within it, or just the factions who happen to be flavor du jour?

[beechguy]

That is the same thing I thought as I heard him give the speech. Yes, Trayvon could have been Obama if Obama attacked and badly beat a man for virtually nothing. The reason that the jury found Zimmerman not guilty is because the evidence left no choice other than self-defence.

No, the Stand Your Ground Law left the jury no choice but to find him 'not guilty'.

Fact is, due to George Zimmerman's actions, T. Martin is now dead.

And no one, except George Zimmerman, is alive to know what happened. Love it how millions of his defenders know that poor Georgie was an innocent victim of the 'boy in the hood'.

I guess you didn't pay attention, but the Stand Your Ground Law, didn't get entered into the trial. But, as usual, no need to let the facts get in the way.

[GeckosDiving]

I've given the thread a few moments thought now.

 

I'm hoping this thread might show some understanding and empathy for Trayvon and for his family, friends - and to include the larger picture of young black males in the United States whose legacy is 200 years of slavery and another hundred years of Jim Crow laws. Destroyed families from their outset.

 

However, I see my worst fears of this thread topic are already being realized. The other side is in fact the other side, i.e., it hasn't any feeling for a kid who got very nervous about some little white sh*t following him in silence with eyeballs fixed on him.

 

The other side is devoid of human feeling, sympathy, caring for the black kid, the deceased. Can't put themselves in the other fellow's shoes and haven't the slightest interest in trying to do so. To them Martin is bad, Zimmerman is good. White is right and if you're black get to the back.

 

The SOS is polluting this thread too.

And with that statement you can tell he was dropped on his head when he was a baby not once but twice !!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Baloo22]

That is the same thing I thought as I heard him give the speech. Yes, Trayvon could have been Obama if Obama attacked and badly beat a man for virtually nothing. The reason that the jury found Zimmerman not guilty is because the evidence left no choice other than self-defence.

No, the Stand Your Ground Law left the jury no choice but to find him 'not guilty'.

Fact is, due to George Zimmerman's actions, T. Martin is now dead.

And no one, except George Zimmerman, is alive to know what happened. Love it how millions of his defenders know that poor Georgie was an innocent victim of the 'boy in the hood'.

Are you referring to Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law??

If so, you are way off base. Zimmerman did not avail himself of the "Stand Your Ground" law. Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law had nothing to do with this trial. His defense was based on the principle of justifiable use of deadly force by reason of the threat of great bodily harm, ie. self-defense.

[Baloo22]

This is just one more example of the very poor judgement and lack of character of Obama. There are still additional legal issues present and yet, this buffoon chooses to flap his jaws. Obama's motor-mouth connected with his poor judgement has already created a number of unnecessary difficulties in the trials of a number of military personnel for alleged sexual assault crimes. See "Obama’s remarks complicate military sex assault cases, experts say".

[Jingthing]

If he doesn't talk, the Obama demonizers say he lacks leadership. If he talks, he says the wrong thing. Obama is the first African American president. Of course he is president of ALL the people, but do you really expect him to throw African Americans under the bus in his remarks?

[Steely Dan]

Hmmm so Trayvon Martin could have been president Obama 35 years ago. Does that mean Mr Obama was also suspended from school and had been involved in drug taking and potentially dealing too? Of course we shall never know as Obama has sealed all records relating to his past, which makes them one of the few places the NSA and FBI don't monitor, Mosques being the other exception.

[Steely Dan]

If he doesn't talk, the Obama demonizers say he lacks leadership. If he talks, he says the wrong thing. Obama is the first African American president. Of course he is president of ALL the people, but do you really expect him to throw African Americans under the bus in his remarks?

No, just the Whites, Jews and the newly discovered White Hispanics.

[Jingthing]

Hmmm so Trayvon Martin could have been president Obama 35 years ago. Does that mean Mr Obama was also suspended from school and had been involved in drug taking and potentially dealing too? Of course we shall never know as Obama has sealed all records relating to his past, which makes them one of the few places the NSA and FBI don't monitor, Mosques being the other exception.

Without getting into details, it is public knowledge that if Obama had been CAUGHT during his naughty youth phase of illegal drug involvement, he would not only never have been president, he would more likely had been a felon on the early death road like so many other young African Americans. Given this reality, I am very disappointed that Obama has not shown more leadership on the issue of drug laws and how the laws ruin many more lives than the drugs.

[gl555]

You should also be disappointed at this president for not really giving two sh%ts about blacks who kill blacks on a daily basis but goes all sentimental when a non black kills a black.

"If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin." Puke!

Hmmm so Trayvon Martin could have been president Obama 35 years ago. Does that mean Mr Obama was also suspended from school and had been involved in drug taking and potentially dealing too? Of course we shall never know as Obama has sealed all records relating to his past, which makes them one of the few places the NSA and FBI don't monitor, Mosques being the other exception.

Without getting into details, it is public knowledge that if Obama had been CAUGHT during his naughty youth phase of illegal drug involvement, he would not only never have been president, he would more likely had been a felon on the early death road like so many other young African Americans. Given this reality, I am very disappointed that Obama has not shown more leadership on the issue of drug laws and how the laws ruin many more lives than the drugs.

[Jingthing]

If he doesn't talk, the Obama demonizers say he lacks leadership. If he talks, he says the wrong thing. Obama is the first African American president. Of course he is president of ALL the people, but do you really expect him to throw African Americans under the bus in his remarks?

No, just the Whites, Jews and the newly discovered White Hispanics.

Not going to dignify that really but it should be mentioned that there is such a thing as white Hispanic though rarely named that way and there is nothing new to that to anyone with even basic knowledge of Latin America.

For examples, Argentina's ethnicities comprise mostly descendants of white Europeans (from such places as Spain, Germany, and Italy).

While Bolivia's ethnicities comprise mostly descendants of indigenous peoples (called Indians by USA-Americans).

Mexico is very mixed, and those racial tensions are a huge factor in Mexican politics and culture.

Peru is similar to Bolivia but I have no idea of the ethnic details of Mr. Zimmerman's Peruvian mama.

I reckon in the case of a media outlet labeling Zimmerman a white Hispanic they probably weren't doing that in awareness of the issues I just mentioned, but rather as a shorthand way of referring to the ethnic background of his parents, father white, mother Peruvian.

On the mixed race black people issue, in the USA it is well known the vast majority of black Americans have white blood in them and in American culture black appearance equals African American. This varies in different countries. Racial definitions are EXTREMELY cultural specific. For a case study of how bizarre that can be, do some research on the culture of race in the Dominican Republic.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Are you referring to Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law??

If so, you are way off base. Zimmerman did not avail himself of the "Stand Your Ground" law. Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law had nothing to do with this trial. His defense was based on the principle of justifiable use of deadly force by reason of the threat of great bodily harm, ie. self-defense.

My sources are telling me that the WORDING of the stand your ground law (WITHOUT naming it as such) was indeed part of the jury instructions.

I think we have a Florida legal eagle here who can respond to that.

Here is the wording that many sources are reporting is actually stand your ground legal wording. Go to PAGE 12 of the link to examine.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153354467/George-Zimmerman-Trial-Final-Jury-Instructions

Yes, Zimmerman COULD have requested a specific Stand Your Ground hearing even before the trial, but for some reason he declined that.

Also, it is widely reported that one of the main reasons the killer was not immediately arrested was that the authorities thought the case was covered by the Stand Your Ground law.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[antfish]

George was an altar boy when he was young. He spoke English and Spanish, read the liturgy in both languages, and Spanish was the primary language at home

I can google as well, and his father says he speaks Spanish, but he grew up in Virginia, attended catholic and public schools, and you are honestly trying to say English is his second language? Plus his father is of German extract, not Hispanic.

There are many Hispanics out there with the last name Zimmerman. If you have Facebook, go to the search function, use a standard Latino first name and Zimmerman for the last and you'll get plenty of results. If you dig deep enough, you might find that Zimmerman's roots come from Germany via Argentina and his grandpa left Germany in 1945. OMG!!

EDIT: Remember, if we want to focus on a last name, then our President is really Kenyan!!

Bob Dylan, the American musician, is a Zimmerman too, his father name was Abraham "Abe" Zimmerman. Not really a Spanish name.

Edited July 20, 2013 by antfish

[Jingthing]

His father is European background (white). His mother Peruvian. His last name is from his father. Case closed.

[theblether]

One of the regretful things now, ( maybe always? I don't know ) is that just about every issue in the US starts with a dividing line. Democrats/Republicans, Black/White, you get the idea.

Once the barricades are built no one comes down from them. It's a modern day American tragedy.

Tell me a country where dividing lines aren't an issue? True in every country around the world.

Eh....the UK doesn't split like this. Yes we have our hardcore left wingers, and we have our hard nosed right wingers, but the vast majority of people will look at issues on their merits.

[Steely Dan]

If he doesn't talk, the Obama demonizers say he lacks leadership. If he talks, he says the wrong thing. Obama is the first African American president. Of course he is president of ALL the people, but do you really expect him to throw African Americans under the bus in his remarks?

No, just the Whites, Jews and the newly discovered White Hispanics.

Not going to dignify that really but it should be mentioned that there is such a thing as white Hispanic though rarely named that way and there is nothing new to that to anyone with even basic knowledge of Latin America.

For examples, Argentina's ethnicities comprise mostly descendants of white Europeans (from such places as Spain, Germany, and Italy).

While Bolivia's ethnicities comprise mostly descendants of indigenous peoples (called Indians by USA-Americans).

Mexico is very mixed, and those racial tensions are a huge factor in Mexican politics and culture.

Peru is similar to Bolivia but I have no idea of the ethnic details of Mr. Zimmerman's Peruvian mama.

I reckon in the case of a media outlet labeling Zimmerman a white Hispanic they probably weren't doing that in awareness of the issues I just mentioned, but rather as a shorthand way of referring to the ethnic background of his parents, father white, mother Peruvian.

On the mixed race black people issue, in the USA it is well known the vast majority of black Americans have white blood in them and in American culture black appearance equals African American. This varies in different countries. Racial definitions are EXTREMELY cultural specific. For a case study of how bizarre that can be, do some research on the culture of race in the Dominican Republic.

Let's just say I have met many people who I would class as Hispanic, the colour of their skin or ancestry never entered my mind, Hispanic I view as primarily a cultural thing. Of course if a sub-division is needed to cause even more discord then I suppose you could have black Hispanics enraged at what a white Hispanic did and white Hispanics correspondingly racked with guilt.

[Jingthing]

Anyone with basic knowledge of Latino/Hispanic culture knows full well those labels represent a MASSIVE amount of diversity just WITHIN those classifications! That is BASIC. Ask a Puerto Rican how he feels about being called a Mexican and you'll get a taste!

Also, just for fun, try googling BLATINO ...

Edited July 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[schondie]

It's such a shame he wasn't.

[Baloo22]

His father is European background (white). His mother Peruvian. His last name is from his father. Case closed.

But on this occasion the "mainstream" or lap-dog media desired to portray this trial as white man killing a black man. But a Hispanic person did not quite fit into that script. That's when and why Mr. Zimmerman suddenly became a "White Hispanic". And, of course, the wacky-doodle left just ate that up! If this was a "White Caucasian", ie. WASP, shooting a Hispanic, you can bet money that you would not hear any of the media use the term "White Hispanic." It simply would not fit their desired narrative!

Case closed!

[lovetotravel]

One of the regretful things now, ( maybe always? I don't know ) is that just about every issue in the US starts with a dividing line. Democrats/Republicans, Black/White, you get the idea.

Once the barricades are built no one comes down from them. It's a modern day American tragedy.

Tell me a country where dividing lines aren't an issue? True in every country around the world.

Eh....the UK doesn't split like this. Yes we have our hardcore left wingers, and we have our hard nosed right wingers, but the vast majority of people will look at issues on their merits.

Ummm...you just described the USA. No different.

[mopar71]

If he doesn't talk, the Obama demonizers say he lacks leadership. If he talks, he says the wrong thing. Obama is the first African American president. Of course he is president of ALL the people, but do you really expect him to throw African Americans under the bus in his remarks?

"African American"? That's a 1990's label just as "Afro-American" is to the 1970's. According to the New York Times' new racial lexicon, Obama should be considered "White African American" just as much as Zimmerman should be considered "White Hispanic". Just keeping things consistent.

Edited July 20, 2013 by mopar71

[Baloo22]

One of the regretful things now, ( maybe always? I don't know ) is that just about every issue in the US starts with a dividing line. Democrats/Republicans, Black/White, you get the idea.

Once the barricades are built no one comes down from them. It's a modern day American tragedy.

Tell me a country where dividing lines aren't an issue? True in every country around the world.

Eh....the UK doesn't split like this. Yes we have our hardcore left wingers, and we have our hard nosed right wingers, but the vast majority of people will look at issues on their merits.

Yeah, right. We saw that so much during the funeral events for Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. Not! I believe that you are looking through some pretty thick rose-colored glasses.

Reality is that Great Britain, and many other nations, have their own political divisions every bit as much as the United States. It's the price that is there when nations, like Great Britain and the United States, allow their citizens political freedoms .

[FDog]

Hey Barack, that could have been me too. Or do you think it is ok if a white guy is killed.

[mopar71]

One of the regretful things now, ( maybe always? I don't know ) is that just about every issue in the US starts with a dividing line. Democrats/Republicans, Black/White, you get the idea.

Once the barricades are built no one comes down from them. It's a modern day American tragedy.

Tell me a country where dividing lines aren't an issue? True in every country around the world.

Eh....the UK doesn't split like this. Yes we have our hardcore left wingers, and we have our hard nosed right wingers, but the vast majority of people will look at issues on their merits.

Ummm...you just described the USA. No different.

I don't think the majority of Americans (my fellow countrymen/women/other) can even list the important issues let alone know details about them. That's why we find ourselves in the situation we are now.

Edited July 20, 2013 by mopar71

[HeijoshinCool]

"United we stand, divided we fall ...."

[JLCrab]

I don't know about you guys, but this is a picture of my favorite African American (US citizen 2007 from South Africa and an Oscar to boot):

[Loptr]

OMG, a thread for the Obama bashers.

The profile of the US expat at TVF is Obama basher.

Christmas has come early for them this year.

I'll refrain from comment other than to say, why bother? The fruit is hanging so low the first swipe will knock it to the ground. The man is a disgrace to the office for politicizing this case in the first place.

[Loptr]

I've given the thread a few moments thought now.

I'm hoping this thread might show some understanding and empathy for Trayvon and for his family, friends - and to include the larger picture of young black males in the United States whose legacy is 200 years of slavery and another hundred years of Jim Crow laws. Destroyed families from their outset.

However, I see my worst fears of this thread topic are already being realized. The other side is in fact the other side, i.e., it hasn't any feeling for a kid who got very nervous about some little white sh*t following him in silence with eyeballs fixed on him.

The other side is devoid of human feeling, sympathy, caring for the black kid, the deceased. Can't put themselves in the other fellow's shoes and haven't the slightest interest in trying to do so. To them Martin is bad, Zimmerman is good. White is right and if you're black get to the back.

The SOS is polluting this thread too.

Empathy for a hood that attacked a man that just happened to be carrying a weapon to defend himself? That is the funniest thing I have read all day. Thanks for that.

I'll stop now and I can tell this thread will digress quickly and I want to stay out of the ban zone. One cannot debate with a person that has a 180 degree diametrically opposite view of reality without becoming incensed with the stupidity of the premise for the argument. Much like wrestling with pigs. You both get dirty but the pig likes it.

[snarky66]

I can guarantee you if a black man had shot Trayvon neither the media nor obama would give a hoot.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted as well as replies.