Could Thailand become the first Asian country to legalize same-sex civil unions?

[webfact]

Could Thailand become the first Asian country to legalize same-sex civil unions?
By Alexander Hotz

BANGKOK: -- Gay rights activists in Thailand recently received some good news. Proposed legislation offering same-sex couples the same legal rights as heterosexual married couples is heading to parliament.

But while it's true that Thailand is well-known as a bastion of tolerance towards lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender couplings in an otherwise traditional South East Asia, there are several, perhaps insurmountable, hurdles that stand in the way of Thailand becoming the first country in Asia to break this barrier.

First, public opinion - or at least perceived public opinion - may not be on the side of the cause. A government survey found that nearly 60 percent of Thais are not in favor of gay marriage. Activists have countered that the polls don't tell the whole story. Who's correct? Polls being what they are in Thailand it's anyone's guess, but strictly speaking this law is not looking to redefine marriage. Instead it would create create civil partnerships where LGBT couples would have the same legal rights as marriage when it comes to issues of inheritance, child care and medical care.

Second, the man behind this legislation, MP Wiratana Kalayasiri, a Democrat from Songkhla and Chairman of Legal Justice Human Right committee, notably pointed out at a recent forum that, "if we look at the parliament today most are over 45, they are older and most have an older way of thinking." To get the bill passed 251 parliamentarians need to sign on.

Third, the Thai political system is notoriously, for lack of a better word, fickle. Wiratana himself said, “some people say you can find a copy of the Thai constitution in magazine racks because it changes as often as many magazines.” And with rumors of another coup in the wind perhaps this isn't the best time to pursue a groundbreaking law. [read more...]

Full story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2013/07/22/could-thailand-become-first-asian-country-legalize-same-sex-civil-unions

-- Coconuts Bangkok 2013-07-22

[Jingthing]

Could Thailand become the first Asian country to legalize same-sex civil unions?

It could but the smart baht is on it won't.

[BuriramRes]

Civil union is the smart way to go anyway. Other countries should cut the crap & take notice.

Since the traditional marriage in Thailand is simply a social device, why would they worry about having a "Civil Union"?

In the western countries, all the fuss is purely monetory and is about gaining pension rights & such, which is not a big deal here.

Edited July 22, 2013 by BuriramRes

[Chris Lawrence]

Could make some of the T girls feel very special dressed in virgin white on that special day.

But apart from that it is just a sign of the times. If it don't happen now at least it is on the agenda.

[isanbirder]

I don't think parliament cares a hoot about public opinion.

The older generation doesn't seem to care much. My in-laws (to be) want my partner and I to get 'united' in some way or other, and they're in their late 60s.

But I agree with Jingthing.... it probably won't happen until some other country has led the way.

On the other hand, parliament might just want to say, "Look how progressive we are!"

Edited July 22, 2013 by isanbirder

[Jingthing]

Civil union is the smart way to go anyway. Other countries should cut the crap & take notice.

Since the traditional marriage in Thailand is simply a social device, why would they worry about having a "Civil Union"?

In the western countries, all the fuss is purely monetory and is about gaining pension rights & such, which is not a big deal here.

Your point is contradictory.

If it is really true that marriage is "simply a social device" in Thailand implying its not so important, why is it so important to put homosexuals into a separate category denying them all the same legal rights as straight people?

The world should follow Thailand? I think not!

The best equality for gay people is allowing them the choice of full access to the same social institutions as everyone else.

The UK is a good example.

Civil unions were a FIRST step to more progress LATER, meaning actual marriage equality.

No, I am NOT saying Thai gay rights advocates shouldn't go ahead and push for the civil union thing. I reckon they are correct that tactic has a much better chance of success earlier than the full marriage equality route. That doesn't mean that LATER if they succeed they won't go for the next step.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[AlexDorneles]

Hope they get it done. It is time to give equal rights to all. Civil union is the first step. I don't know anyone who is against gay marriage these days.

Edited July 22, 2013 by AlexDorneles

[Maggusoil]

I don't understand this. I watched a very good documentary not long ago about two English guys that both married lady boys. I have had a lot of exposure over 60 years of the theatre and media where I have worked and personally don't care what people do as long as they're not hurting others. What surprised me was how candid the sex details were in this docco. Really.

The point is, they got married and live together as a married couple and nobody seems to worry about it at all.

If two people do something like that and it is not recognised by the church or the monks or the state or whatever, why don't they just make a civil contract over the property and keep going the way they are?

Why does everyone else have to 'recognise" it anyway, as long as the couple do.

Have I missed the point?

[Hoov]

Civil union is the smart way to go anyway. Other countries should cut the crap & take notice.

Since the traditional marriage in Thailand is simply a social device, why would they worry about having a "Civil Union"?

In the western countries, all the fuss is purely monetory and is about gaining pension rights & such, which is not a big deal here.

Try getting a visa for your "civil union partner" or any of the over 1,000 government perks married couples get. Doesn't mean squat. Equalaity means just that: equality. No more "separate but equal" crap.

When you tell me how gay marriage will directly affect your marriage, let me know. I've been waiting for an anwer to this for a long time.

[stoli]

If you are really against Gay marriage, encourage it to happen. Open it to all that want to get married. That will teach them. Watch what you ask for. Hasn't worked well for straight people...

[sausageandmash]

Hope they get it done. It is time to give equal rights to all. Civil union is the first step. I don't know anyone who is against gay marriage these days.

There are many people who are against it and don't just follow PC trend-setters. Marriage is for a man and a woman.

[Jingthing]

Hope they get it done. It is time to give equal rights to all. Civil union is the first step. I don't know anyone who is against gay marriage these days.

There are many people who are against it and don't just follow PC trend-setters. Marriage is for a man and a woman.

Every year more countries say it ain't ONLY for heterosexuals.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

Civil union is the smart way to go anyway. Other countries should cut the crap & take notice.

Since the traditional marriage in Thailand is simply a social device, why would they worry about having a "Civil Union"?

In the western countries, all the fuss is purely monetory and is about gaining pension rights & such, which is not a big deal here.

Try getting a visa for your "civil union partner" or any of the over 1,000 government perks married couples get. Doesn't mean squat. Equalaity means just that: equality. No more "separate but equal" crap.

When you tell me how gay marriage will directly affect your marriage, let me know. I've been waiting for an anwer to this for a long time.

Just out of interest, just what are "the over 1,000 government perks married couples get" in Thailand? I know of a few, such as tax, hospital treatment, etc, but I can't think of that many that aren't available to everyone by other means (such as a will, living will, etc).

[LeCharivari]

Civil union is the smart way to go anyway. Other countries should cut the crap & take notice.

Since the traditional marriage in Thailand is simply a social device, why would they worry about having a "Civil Union"?

In the western countries, all the fuss is purely monetory and is about gaining pension rights & such, which is not a big deal here.

A valid point. Even though, according to the figures, traditional marriage is not so important in Thailand as elsewhere in the region that doesn't mean that those who do value it don't oppose gay marriage ... and despite what's been said here, the only apparent difference between the proposed civil union and marriage is the age limit (17 for straight marriage, 20 for gay civil unions) which really isn't such a big deal as it confers all other legal and financial rights (limited though that may be).

Its obviously the best way to go in that it should be the quickest and arouse the least opposition, and once its accepted then gay marriage is less of a leap - probably why nearly all countries with gay marriage have gone down that route initially.

[LeCharivari]

Could Thailand become the first Asian country to legalize same-sex civil unions?

It could but the smart baht is on it won't.

Agreed - Vietnam is further on, but it really shouldn't be a race.

[Hoov]

Civil union is the smart way to go anyway. Other countries should cut the crap & take notice.

Since the traditional marriage in Thailand is simply a social device, why would they worry about having a "Civil Union"?

In the western countries, all the fuss is purely monetory and is about gaining pension rights & such, which is not a big deal here.

Try getting a visa for your "civil union partner" or any of the over 1,000 government perks married couples get. Doesn't mean squat. Equalaity means just that: equality. No more "separate but equal" crap.

When you tell me how gay marriage will directly affect your marriage, let me know. I've been waiting for an anwer to this for a long time.

Just out of interest, just what are "the over 1,000 government perks married couples get" in Thailand? I know of a few, such as tax, hospital treatment, etc, but I can't think of that many that aren't available to everyone by other means (such as a will, living will, etc).

I was referring to the perks in the U.S. Most of these are in tax deductions, pension benefits, etc. I assume most Western countries have similar perks. Since I mentioned getting a visa for a Thai spouse I thought it was evident I was referring to non-Thai benefits. Sorry for the confusion.

[onthemoon]

Hope they get it done. It is time to give equal rights to all. Civil union is the first step. I don't know anyone who is against gay marriage these days.

There are many people who are against it and don't just follow PC trend-setters. Marriage is for a man and a woman.

Well, I used to be against PC. But if you say equal rights are PC, I'll change my mind.

Exactly who (except for some religious fanatics who we shouldn't care about) says marriage is for a man and a woman? - You've got some balls saying this in the gay forum, I'll give you that. I am looking forward to your reply.

[onthemoon]

Could Thailand become the first Asian country to legalize same-sex civil unions?

It could but the smart baht is on it won't.

Somehow, I agree with you.

It also appears that Coconut went to the press conference. Good for them!

[Bkungbank]

I lost confident in poll survey already, in last Bangkok governor election survey was a mess .

You cheated once but not twice.

[isanbirder]

Hope they get it done. It is time to give equal rights to all. Civil union is the first step. I don't know anyone who is against gay marriage these days.

There are many people who are against it and don't just follow PC trend-setters. Marriage is for a man and a woman.

Well, I used to be against PC. But if you say equal rights are PC, I'll change my mind.

Exactly who (except for some religious fanatics who we shouldn't care about) says marriage is for a man and a woman? - You've got some balls saying this in the gay forum, I'll give you that. I am looking forward to your reply.

Well here I am, religious fanatic again..And gay with it!

In principle I regard marriage as a sacrament, 'the outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace', available through the Church to a male/female couple only.

BUT (and it's a big BUT) as I've said before more than once on this forum, I am quite sure the word marriage will come to be used for all sorts of unions, civil or religious, so it is quite literally not worth making a fuss about.

What IS worth making a fuss about is fully equal rights, under whatever name.

Edited July 24, 2013 by isanbirder

[onthemoon]

I lost confident in poll survey already, in last Bangkok governor election survey was a mess .

You cheated once but not twice.

Huh?

[LeCharivari]

There are many people who are against it and don't just follow PC trend-setters. Marriage is for a man and a woman.

Well, I used to be against PC. But if you say equal rights are PC, I'll change my mind.

Exactly who (except for some religious fanatics who we shouldn't care about) says marriage is for a man and a woman? - You've got some balls saying this in the gay forum, I'll give you that. I am looking forward to your reply.

Who says "marriage is for a man and a woman"? Well over 90% of the world according to their countries' laws and constitutions - and they're certainly not all "religious fanatics", and a considerable number are gay.

[LeCharivari]

Try getting a visa for your "civil union partner" or any of the over 1,000 government perks married couples get. Doesn't mean squat. Equalaity means just that: equality. No more "separate but equal" crap.

When you tell me how gay marriage will directly affect your marriage, let me know. I've been waiting for an anwer to this for a long time.

Just out of interest, just what are "the over 1,000 government perks married couples get" in Thailand? I know of a few, such as tax, hospital treatment, etc, but I can't think of that many that aren't available to everyone by other means (such as a will, living will, etc).

I was referring to the perks in the U.S. Most of these are in tax deductions, pension benefits, etc. I assume most Western countries have similar perks. Since I mentioned getting a visa for a Thai spouse I thought it was evident I was referring to non-Thai benefits. Sorry for the confusion.

Your assumption is incorrect - the US is the only one of the "Western countries" to recognise Civil Unions/Partnerships which puts these in a different category to gay marriage for immigration rights, tax and pension benefits, etc, and many countries such as Australia recognise Civil Unions as a de-facto marriage for visas, immigration rights, etc. The US is very much on its own when it comes to the legal/financial differentiation between Civil Unions and gay marriage, and that's also very much a choice (by the current administration) as there is no legal or constitutional justification for it.

Let's not drift too far off-topic, though, as this thread is about Thailand and Asian countries, not the US or the West where this subject has been aired at length.

[LeCharivari]

The biggest current obstacle to Thai Civil Unions doesn't seem to be the level of opposition but the level of support/interest. The Bill requires a minimum of 10,000 signatures to be tabled in Parliament and so far it has barely received 4,000.

[Jingthing]

The biggest current obstacle to Thai Civil Unions doesn't seem to be the level of opposition but the level of support/interest. The Bill requires a minimum of 10,000 signatures to be tabled in Parliament and so far it has barely received 4,000.

That's very interesting.

My feeling is if the Thai gay advocates can't get a measly 10,000 signatures they pretty much deserve nothing.

Sorry if this sounds harsh.

I think in general the Thai gay rights movement has been PATHETIC.

If they don't care, I don't care, and why should anyone care?

Edited July 25, 2013 by Jingthing

[onthemoon]

The biggest current obstacle to Thai Civil Unions doesn't seem to be the level of opposition but the level of support/interest. The Bill requires a minimum of 10,000 signatures to be tabled in Parliament and so far it has barely received 4,000.

That's very interesting.

My feeling is if the Thai gay advocates can't get a measly 10,000 signatures they pretty much deserve nothing.

Sorry if this sounds harsh.

I think in general the Thai gay rights movement has been PATHETIC.

If they don't care, I don't care, and why should anyone care?

Wow, that's indeed harsh. I care, I want to get married to my Thai bf of ten years, but we just might do it in Europe.

[onthemoon]

The biggest current obstacle to Thai Civil Unions doesn't seem to be the level of opposition but the level of support/interest. The Bill requires a minimum of 10,000 signatures to be tabled in Parliament and so far it has barely received 4,000.

That's very interesting.

My feeling is if the Thai gay advocates can't get a measly 10,000 signatures they pretty much deserve nothing.

Sorry if this sounds harsh.

I think in general the Thai gay rights movement has been PATHETIC.

If they don't care, I don't care, and why should anyone care?

Well, I care. But then, I have no voting rights.

[sustento]

The biggest current obstacle to Thai Civil Unions doesn't seem to be the level of opposition but the level of support/interest. The Bill requires a minimum of 10,000 signatures to be tabled in Parliament and so far it has barely received 4,000.

That's very interesting.

My feeling is if the Thai gay advocates can't get a measly 10,000 signatures they pretty much deserve nothing.

Sorry if this sounds harsh.

I think in general the Thai gay rights movement has been PATHETIC.

If they don't care, I don't care, and why should anyone care?

I can't begin to count the number of times you've told us that US gay rights problems are unique to the US and can only be solved by Americans. Perhaps you'd allow the same for other countries in the world and let them solve their own problems in their own way without lecturing them on how badly they're doing.

[LeCharivari]

The biggest current obstacle to Thai Civil Unions doesn't seem to be the level of opposition but the level of support/interest. The Bill requires a minimum of 10,000 signatures to be tabled in Parliament and so far it has barely received 4,000.

That's very interesting.

My feeling is if the Thai gay advocates can't get a measly 10,000 signatures they pretty much deserve nothing.

Sorry if this sounds harsh.

I think in general the Thai gay rights movement has been PATHETIC.

If they don't care, I don't care, and why should anyone care?

I can't begin to count the number of times you've told us that US gay rights problems are unique to the US and can only be solved by Americans. Perhaps you'd allow the same for other countries in the world and let them solve their own problems in their own way without lecturing them on how badly they're doing.

Agreed, sustento - except that most Thai gays don't think they've got "problems".

It seems to confirm what I have said all along - Thais aren't particularly interested in marriage and Thai gays are even less interested in gay marriage or even civil unions. The "gay advocates" have been selling the bill across Thailand for months (and gays aren't exactly hard to identify here!) and they still can't muster half the 10,000 signatures required.

That doesn't make it "PATHETIC" - it just indicates how little interest most Thai gays have for Gay Pride parades, gay marriage and all the other divisive things "we" gays in the West want in our quest for "equality". They've already got what we want - acceptance and tolerance, on their own terms - and generally speaking they've had it for hundreds of years.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, for Thai gays Thailand is the best of all possible worlds. Must be nice.