Australia to Send Refugees to Papua New Guinea

[BookMan]

In Opposition Abbott he blamed the government for the boat arrivals. Abbott had his own solution of turning back the boats. A simple plan which he guaranteed would work.

Now he is in government the plan is not so simple.

However, Abbott has been dealt a lifeline. Now he can now blame those pesky Indonesians.

Are you saying Abbott IS the government? I thought there were a lot of other people there as well, so why blame him alone, and don't forget a majority of Australians support him on stopping the boats ( except for bleeding hearts on ABC ).

Abbott has been the mouthpiece for turning back the boats for the Liberals so it seems fair to attribute it to him in that role. As Prime Minister he is also the leader of the government so once again, it seems fair to attribute stuff to him in that role. Do you think Malcolm Turnbull as leader or PM would have had a 'turn back the boats' slogan?

A majority of Australians support stopping the boats. Whether this means they support turning back the boats and possibly creating a long lasting diplomatic rift with Indonesia seems unlikely.

Edited November 10, 2013 by BookMan

[samran]

Rudd went to the 2007 election promising to relax the system. Don't forget that people voted for that too.

No doubt they will again when the journo's want to start going after Abbott focusing the poor sods locked up in PNG.

[David48]

Rudd went to the 2007 election promising to relax the system. Don't forget that people voted for that too.

No doubt they will again when the journo's want to start going after Abbott focusing the poor sods locked up in PNG.

My memory tends to remember the major issue of the 2007 election was the (then) governments 'Work Choices' issues and a massive anti campaign funded by the trade unions.

I think the relaxing the Refugees / Illegal Arrivals (it's just a name) was, at best, a minor issue in the 2007 election.

Where in the 2013 election the issue was front and centre.

Australia voted on it.

[simple1]

Seeing as the boat was in Indonesia's search and rescue zone, I wonder if there will be a reluctance to go and help the next one in distress?

Whilst within this topic I disagree with aspects of Australia's asylum seeker policy, I have to say that I do not believe there would be any reluctance to deploy Australian naval assets close enough to be first responders within reach of Indonesia's search and rescue zone.

"I do not believe there would be any reluctance to deploy Australian naval assets close enough to be first responders within reach of Indonesia's search and rescue zone."

Well ... I'm a moderate.

It's their Zone ... their responsibility.

Their Onus.

Any evidence of them coming into 'our' agreed "search and rescue zone" ... no ... I thought not.

No-one wants to see loss of life at sea.

But the Asylum Seekers are taking the Piss.

They have the Australian Navy/Rescue on speed dial.

BS I say.

If they are in trouble ... and in the agreed "Indonesia's search and rescue zone" ... let Indonesia take care of the issue.

We continue to agree to disagree ...

.

So if Australian naval vessel/s are close enough to be first responders it's OK by you not to respond & put people at risk of drowning?

No one is saying that, but what is being said is Australian vessels should not be going into the Indo area of responsibility when the Indonesian government will not take back the survivors. If the Indo govt. cared, they would do so and this problem would not exist. Why is it ALWAYS western countries responsibility to be the "good guys"?

In the case under discussion, no Australian naval vessel would be that close to Indonesia as a routine anyway. Don't tell me that Indonesia couldn't have sent some vessels, even if not navy, that close to shore.

As already posted Oz government now has an agreement in-place to enter the Indonesian zone of responsibility for sea rescues without the need to first request permission to do so. I would assume the motive was humanitarian, in the instance of first responder, if Oz naval assets are closest to the vessel in distress.

So far as Indo government caring there is endemic corruption, same as Thailand. I would guess Indo law enforcement will be collaborating with the traffickers, again same as Thailand

[samran]

Dave48. Nats were revolting over TPV's as they wanted refugee's to settle in the countryside. And that was the conservative side of politics. Plenty of public pressure, one of the key reasons Maxine McKew managed to knock off Howard in his own seat.

All this stuff was well documented.

[simple1]

For those following this topic you may be interested to review a paper written in March 2013 by Robert Manne, that outlines the evolution of Australian government asylum seeker/refugee policies is at the URL below:

http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2013/march/1365643273/robert-manne/tragedy-errors

[thaibeachlovers]

Whilst within this topic I disagree with aspects of Australia's asylum seeker policy, I have to say that I do not believe there would be any reluctance to deploy Australian naval assets close enough to be first responders within reach of Indonesia's search and rescue zone.

"I do not believe there would be any reluctance to deploy Australian naval assets close enough to be first responders within reach of Indonesia's search and rescue zone."

Well ... I'm a moderate.

It's their Zone ... their responsibility.

Their Onus.

Any evidence of them coming into 'our' agreed "search and rescue zone" ... no ... I thought not.

No-one wants to see loss of life at sea.

But the Asylum Seekers are taking the Piss.

They have the Australian Navy/Rescue on speed dial.

BS I say.

If they are in trouble ... and in the agreed "Indonesia's search and rescue zone" ... let Indonesia take care of the issue.

We continue to agree to disagree ...

.

So if Australian naval vessel/s are close enough to be first responders it's OK by you not to respond & put people at risk of drowning?

No one is saying that, but what is being said is Australian vessels should not be going into the Indo area of responsibility when the Indonesian government will not take back the survivors. If the Indo govt. cared, they would do so and this problem would not exist. Why is it ALWAYS western countries responsibility to be the "good guys"?

In the case under discussion, no Australian naval vessel would be that close to Indonesia as a routine anyway. Don't tell me that Indonesia couldn't have sent some vessels, even if not navy, that close to shore.

As already posted Oz government now has an agreement in-place to enter the Indonesian zone of responsibility for sea rescues without the need to first request permission to do so. I would assume the motive was humanitarian, in the instance of first responder, if Oz naval assets are closest to the vessel in distress.

So far as Indo government caring there is endemic corruption, same as Thailand. I would guess Indo law enforcement will be collaborating with the traffickers, again same as Thailand

The Lebanese guy who lost his wife and 8 kids in a sinking, said that Indo military officers were helping load the boat.

Whether or not there is an agreement for Oz boats to enter Indo waters is irrelevant if the Oz government decide to move all the boats far away, to avoid just such an incident repeating in the future.

One quoted reply removed to allow posting.

Edited November 10, 2013 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

Dave48. Nats were revolting over TPV's as they wanted refugee's to settle in the countryside. And that was the conservative side of politics. Plenty of public pressure, one of the key reasons Maxine McKew managed to knock off Howard in his own seat.

All this stuff was well documented.

<as they wanted refugee's to settle in the countryside>

Good luck with that! It wouldn't take long before they were complaining that it violated their "rights" and were allowed to move into the city ghettos where they can pretend that they are still in their own country, and don't have to assimilate.

I would actually support that policy if it was a case of live in the outback or go home. We'd soon see how many were economic migrants vs real refugees.

[samran]

Dave48. Nats were revolting over TPV's as they wanted refugee's to settle in the countryside. And that was the conservative side of politics. Plenty of public pressure, one of the key reasons Maxine McKew managed to knock off Howard in his own seat.

All this stuff was well documented.

<as they wanted refugee's to settle in the countryside>

Good luck with that! It wouldn't take long before they were complaining that it violated their "rights" and were allowed to move into the city ghettos where they can pretend that they are still in their own country, and don't have to assimilate.

I would actually support that policy if it was a case of live in the outback or go home. We'd soon see how many were economic migrants vs real refugees.

Geez it must be miserable going through life as a cynic.

Look up how Sheparton has had a massive influx of refugees who have moved go live there, rejuvenating the area.

And I know you hate the ABC, but if you can bring yourself to read this, you might learn a thing or two.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/stories/s795214.htm

[BookMan]

United Nations studies Shepparton refugee programs

United Nations delegates visited Shepparton yesterday to learn from the region’s refugee settlement programs.

About 40 delegates from the United Nations High Commission for Refugees learnt about settlement services for refugees and their experiences in Shepparton.

The delegates, representing 10 countries from government and non-government organisations, were on a four-day tour in Victoria as part of Australia’s chairing of the global dialogue on refugee resettlement.

http://www.mmg.com.au/local-news/shepparton/united-nations-studies-shepparton-refugee-programs-1.11137

Edited November 10, 2013 by BookMan

[BookMan]

Boat policy founders

Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has been forced to reveal that Indonesia has twice rejected requests from the Abbott government to accept asylum seekers rescued by Australian authorities.

In a rare move, given the secrecy surrounding the Coalition's border security regime, Mr Morrison said the Coalition had made four requests to Indonesia to accept asylum seekers that Australia had picked up in Indonesia's search and rescue region. Only two had been accepted.

Mr Morrison's comments – which were seized on by Labor as a sign of worsening relations between Canberra and Jakarta – came after the Jakarta Post on Saturday reported that Agus Barnas, spokesman for the Indonesian coordinating minister for legal, political and security affairs, said his country had declined to receive three out of six Australian requests for transfers since September.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/boat-policy-founders-20131110-2xa6x.html

Edited November 10, 2013 by BookMan

[samran]

United Nations studies Shepparton refugee programs

United Nations delegates visited Shepparton yesterday to learn from the regions refugee settlement programs.

About 40 delegates from the United Nations High Commission for Refugees learnt about settlement services for refugees and their experiences in Shepparton.

The delegates, representing 10 countries from government and non-government organisations, were on a four-day tour in Victoria as part of Australias chairing of the global dialogue on refugee resettlement.

http://www.mmg.com.au/local-news/shepparton/united-nations-studies-shepparton-refugee-programs-1.11137

Stop it Bookman.

The yobbos must continue to believe that all the reffos want to do is sit about and get the dole, which will fund them for their jihad.

Clearly moving to a country town that most Australians don't want to move to, and doing jobs that most Australians wouldn't do doesn't fit that narrative. I mean, who in their right minds would want to restart your life from scratch in an isolated country town?

[David48]

United Nations studies Shepparton refugee programs

United Nations delegates visited Shepparton yesterday to learn from the regions refugee settlement programs.

About 40 delegates from the United Nations High Commission for Refugees learnt about settlement services for refugees and their experiences in Shepparton.

The delegates, representing 10 countries from government and non-government organisations, were on a four-day tour in Victoria as part of Australias chairing of the global dialogue on refugee resettlement.

http://www.mmg.com.au/local-news/shepparton/united-nations-studies-shepparton-refugee-programs-1.11137

Stop it Bookman.

The yobbos must continue to believe that all the reffos want to do is sit about and get the dole, which will fund them for their jihad.

Clearly moving to a country town that most Australians don't want to move to, and doing jobs that most Australians wouldn't do doesn't fit that narrative. I mean, who in their right minds would want to restart your life from scratch in an isolated country town?

While it's an interesting article ... it really has naught to do the the OP which is Australia sending Refugees to Papua New Guinea.

If the above posts are relevant ... so is my observation that I support the government's current policy of not accepting the illegal boat arrivals.

We should deny each and every one and instead, focus on those refugees, who are currently stuck in camps, who are in the system, have done the right thing, fully documented ... and just as desperate.

Our intake is set at appropriate numbers ... we are in accord with (or close to) the World's average.

Every illegal boat arrival is one less that can take from the established systems set up by the UNHCR.

So, I'm not anti-Refugees ... I'm anti-queue jumpers.

Support the system that the UNHCR has in place.

.

[simple1]

United Nations studies Shepparton refugee programs

United Nations delegates visited Shepparton yesterday to learn from the regions refugee settlement programs.

About 40 delegates from the United Nations High Commission for Refugees learnt about settlement services for refugees and their experiences in Shepparton.

The delegates, representing 10 countries from government and non-government organisations, were on a four-day tour in Victoria as part of Australias chairing of the global dialogue on refugee resettlement.

http://www.mmg.com.au/local-news/shepparton/united-nations-studies-shepparton-refugee-programs-1.11137

Stop it Bookman.

The yobbos must continue to believe that all the reffos want to do is sit about and get the dole, which will fund them for their jihad.

Clearly moving to a country town that most Australians don't want to move to, and doing jobs that most Australians wouldn't do doesn't fit that narrative. I mean, who in their right minds would want to restart your life from scratch in an isolated country town?

While it's an interesting article ... it really has naught to do the the OP which is Australia sending Refugees to Papua New Guinea.

If the above posts are relevant ... so is my observation that I support the government's current policy of not accepting the illegal boat arrivals.

We should deny each and every one and instead, focus on those refugees, who are currently stuck in camps, who are in the system, have done the right thing, fully documented ... and just as desperate.

Our intake is set at appropriate numbers ... we are in accord with (or close to) the World's average.

Every illegal boat arrival is one less that can take from the established systems set up by the UNHCR.

So, I'm not anti-Refugees ... I'm anti-queue jumpers.

Support the system that the UNHCR has in place.

.

Did you read the content at the URL that I provided for you to read? http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/f/myth-long.php#queue

If so you would have some facts to hand & hopefully stop regurgitating the arrant nonsense you keep posting regarding 'illegal' boat arrivals, queue jumping etc. Yes, some in the media and politicians do use these terms that appeal to the uninformed and are in blatant disregard to the UN Conventions for Refugees and processes that you claim to support.

[Will27]

As there is an exception to every rule, can we have a look at this latest

arrival on Christmas Island in the nets before we send him to PNG

[BookMan]

As there is an exception to every rule, can we have a look at this latest

arrival on Christmas Island in the nets before we send him to PNG

If he comes from the school of Murali we'll take him

[samran]

United Nations studies Shepparton refugee programs

United Nations delegates visited Shepparton yesterday to learn from the regions refugee settlement programs.

About 40 delegates from the United Nations High Commission for Refugees learnt about settlement services for refugees and their experiences in Shepparton.

The delegates, representing 10 countries from government and non-government organisations, were on a four-day tour in Victoria as part of Australias chairing of the global dialogue on refugee resettlement.

http://www.mmg.com.au/local-news/shepparton/united-nations-studies-shepparton-refugee-programs-1.11137

Stop it Bookman.

The yobbos must continue to believe that all the reffos want to do is sit about and get the dole, which will fund them for their jihad.

Clearly moving to a country town that most Australians don't want to move to, and doing jobs that most Australians wouldn't do doesn't fit that narrative. I mean, who in their right minds would want to restart your life from scratch in an isolated country town?

While it's an interesting article ... it really has naught to do the the OP which is Australia sending Refugees to Papua New Guinea.

If the above posts are relevant ... so is my observation that I support the government's current policy of not accepting the illegal boat arrivals.

We should deny each and every one and instead, focus on those refugees, who are currently stuck in camps, who are in the system, have done the right thing, fully documented ... and just as desperate.

Our intake is set at appropriate numbers ... we are in accord with (or close to) the World's average.

Every illegal boat arrival is one less that can take from the established systems set up by the UNHCR.

So, I'm not anti-Refugees ... I'm anti-queue jumpers.

Support the system that the UNHCR has in place.

.

you see, I don't believe there is a queue. I don't believe in fairytales either. Both though, have the same common raison d'etre, to easily box a complex world into a nice narrative so people can cheer for the goodies and the badies.

If you believe there is a proper functioning queue then you should quickly see some progress of those people detained in PNG and Naru moved on to 3rd countries. But they won't. Many of them will be stuck there, and then if they are moved anywhere, they'll be quietly resettled in Australia or NZ, as they were last time.

The article is interesting as it humanises refugees and asylum seekers. One of the reasons the government has clamped down on any publicity on this issue is that it runs the risk of humanising the issue. You see, when you humanise something, it is all over for the fire and brimstone crowd.

The article and my comments are important and entirely relevant. This has happened before, and it will happen again. In a year or two, journo's will start looking for another story, as is their want, and start focusing in on the terrible conditions in these offshore processing centres, the mental damage done to people locked up for no other reason beyond crossing a border without a visa and we as a nation will start to question ourselves, again.

We'll wonder where the proportionality is in the crime vs punishment aspect of it. We'll start seeing stories of how refugees from this latest wave who have settled in and made a life, and we'll (again) say, "maybe these are a bunch of people we do want in Australia".

This has happened before. It will happen again.

Edited November 11, 2013 by samran

[simple1]

United Nations studies Shepparton refugee programs

United Nations delegates visited Shepparton yesterday to learn from the regions refugee settlement programs.

About 40 delegates from the United Nations High Commission for Refugees learnt about settlement services for refugees and their experiences in Shepparton.

The delegates, representing 10 countries from government and non-government organisations, were on a four-day tour in Victoria as part of Australias chairing of the global dialogue on refugee resettlement.

http://www.mmg.com.au/local-news/shepparton/united-nations-studies-shepparton-refugee-programs-1.11137

Stop it Bookman.

The yobbos must continue to believe that all the reffos want to do is sit about and get the dole, which will fund them for their jihad.

Clearly moving to a country town that most Australians don't want to move to, and doing jobs that most Australians wouldn't do doesn't fit that narrative. I mean, who in their right minds would want to restart your life from scratch in an isolated country town?

Does anyone remember the documentary broadcast a few years ago on Australian TV (cannot remember if ABC or SBS). They invited and followed an overseas visit, to I believe Indonesia, by self declared anti immigration zealots.to show them conditions and to meet with asylum seekers/refugees. If I recall correctly there were five (?) of them & all but one positively changed their stance.

[samran]

Was called 'go back to where you come from' and was on SBS. But you know, was probably made by a bunch of pinko lefties, so hardly a good example

[samran]

From today's crikey:

"Australia’s relationship with Indonesia is at one of its historic low points, despite claims to the contrary by Prime Minister Tony Abbott. What is unusual about this most recent contretemps with Indonesia, with which Australia has previously had several difficulties, is that, unlike in the past, the current problems are entirely a consequence of Australian policy".

Read more here.

[Will27]

As there is an exception to every rule, can we have a look at this latest

arrival on Christmas Island in the nets before we send him to PNG

If he comes from the school of Murali we'll take him

BookMan

Our latest arrival has told authorities he's a fast bowler.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2498224/Im-fast-bowler-What-asylum-seeker-dressed-Australian-cricketer-told-border-immigration-officials-arriving-countrys-shores.html

I was rather hoping for a spinner or a batsman.

Shall we still let him in?

[BookMan]

As there is an exception to every rule, can we have a look at this latest

arrival on Christmas Island in the nets before we send him to PNG

If he comes from the school of Murali we'll take him

BookMan

Our latest arrival has told authorities he's a fast bowler.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2498224/Im-fast-bowler-What-asylum-seeker-dressed-Australian-cricketer-told-border-immigration-officials-arriving-countrys-shores.html

I was rather hoping for a spinner or a batsman.

Shall we still let him in?

Only a nets session can answer that. Is he grade level or international standard? Australia has a long and proud history of fast tracking citizenship for sports people of international potential. This bloke has already bought his own kit so he must be confident.

[Will27]

As there is an exception to every rule, can we have a look at this latest

arrival on Christmas Island in the nets before we send him to PNG

If he comes from the school of Murali we'll take him

BookMan

Our latest arrival has told authorities he's a fast bowler.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2498224/Im-fast-bowler-What-asylum-seeker-dressed-Australian-cricketer-told-border-immigration-officials-arriving-countrys-shores.html

I was rather hoping for a spinner or a batsman.

Shall we still let him in?

Only a nets session can answer that. Is he grade level or international standard? Australia has a long and proud history of fast tracking citizenship for sportspeople of international potential. This bloke has already bought his own kit so he must be confident.

Seeing that he brought his kit with him, I wonder if the people smugglers charged him for excess baggage

[BookMan]

He's a fast bowler Will. He only needs his uniform and balls

[Sing_Sling]

Dave48. Nats were revolting over TPV's as they wanted refugee's to settle in the countryside. And that was the conservative side of politics. Plenty of public pressure, one of the key reasons Maxine McKew managed to knock off Howard in his own seat.

All this stuff was well documented.

<as they wanted refugee's to settle in the countryside>

Good luck with that! It wouldn't take long before they were complaining that it violated their "rights" and were allowed to move into the city ghettos where they can pretend that they are still in their own country, and don't have to assimilate.

I would actually support that policy if it was a case of live in the outback or go home. We'd soon see how many were economic migrants vs real refugees.

Yup, send those rich reffo bastards into the bush - if they can take care if themselves they can stay - in the bush.

Ah, Thaibeachlovers - were your ancestors told where they could and could not stay when they arrived on our sunny shores . . . surely they were sent to live in the Olgas or in Kakadu somewhere, right ?

[samran]

Letter from Australia to Indonesia

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/blogs/blunt-instrument/why-wont-indonesia-do-what-we-promised-20131111-2xcca.html

[samran]

It just gets worse and worse for Tone:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/indonesia-to-change-the-rules-20131113-2xh0v.html

[Sing_Sling]

To be fair, 'we' were spying on them for a while it seems . . . but the refugee issue will not simply go away because it is wished away or brushed aside.

[thaibeachlovers]

Dave48. Nats were revolting over TPV's as they wanted refugee's to settle in the countryside. And that was the conservative side of politics. Plenty of public pressure, one of the key reasons Maxine McKew managed to knock off Howard in his own seat.

All this stuff was well documented.

<as they wanted refugee's to settle in the countryside>

Good luck with that! It wouldn't take long before they were complaining that it violated their "rights" and were allowed to move into the city ghettos where they can pretend that they are still in their own country, and don't have to assimilate.

I would actually support that policy if it was a case of live in the outback or go home. We'd soon see how many were economic migrants vs real refugees.

Geez it must be miserable going through life as a cynic.

Look up how Sheparton has had a massive influx of refugees who have moved go live there, rejuvenating the area.

And I know you hate the ABC, but if you can bring yourself to read this, you might learn a thing or two.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/stories/s795214.htm

Interesting read. So they sorted 90 ?refugees ( the thing I don't understand about modern life in the west, is that they can find work for refugees, but allow citizens to collect the dole and sit on their butt- no wonder the western world is massively in debt ), but given that the typical ABC audience wants to take all 70 million refugees into Oz, can they find work for them too?

Here's an idea; let all the refugees into Oz, and allow all the Australian citizens go on a permanent paid holiday- problem sorted .

If I'm cynical, it's because the managers of all my jobs have always given me, just a working stiff, the shaft.

[thaibeachlovers]

Dave48. Nats were revolting over TPV's as they wanted refugee's to settle in the countryside. And that was the conservative side of politics. Plenty of public pressure, one of the key reasons Maxine McKew managed to knock off Howard in his own seat.

All this stuff was well documented.

<as they wanted refugee's to settle in the countryside>

Good luck with that! It wouldn't take long before they were complaining that it violated their "rights" and were allowed to move into the city ghettos where they can pretend that they are still in their own country, and don't have to assimilate.

I would actually support that policy if it was a case of live in the outback or go home. We'd soon see how many were economic migrants vs real refugees.

Yup, send those rich reffo bastards into the bush - if they can take care if themselves they can stay - in the bush.

Ah, Thaibeachlovers - were your ancestors told where they could and could not stay when they arrived on our sunny shores . . . surely they were sent to live in the Olgas or in Kakadu somewhere, right ?

As far back as I can tell, my ancestors migrated legally, acording to the laws that existed at that time.