THAIPHUKET Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 actually my favorite airline, comfortwise. But when I checked today prices I got upset. Tempted by a quote of 89.000b buss class BKK -Frankfurt I started to book. As it turned out that this price was only available with the questionable pleasure of an 25 hour layover, anything shorter was for over 100.000. That is improper business conduct. 2. What always has been annoying that looking for exact info on flight changes , etc lead to unreadable airline language garbage. While Etihad, with a simple mouse over you can see the exact difference between restricted/semi-restricted. The web site is a disgrace to a 5 Star Airline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomatopo Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Typically a more desirable product or service will cost more than a less desirable product or service. Hence direct, non-stop flights often cost more than itineraries with one or more stop-overs. Presenting various options does not seem like improper business conduct to me, but I understand that this is somewhat subjective. Most airlines make the fare rules available in a somewhat standardized format, with cancellation, change, refund language in English and fairly easy to comprehend. If you are challenged understanding any fare rules please provide some detail and I will try to help you understand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAIPHUKET Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 Sorry, I disagree strongly. To seduce a customer to start booking is falls clearly under the rule of Bait and Switch Tactics It’s illegal to advertise a product when you have no intention of selling that product at the advertised price. Bait and switch tactics are illegal, period. If you advertise a product, the law says that you have to intend to sell it as advertised. Source : The Federal Trade Commission regulates all forms of advertising in the United States. QR has no intend of selling a ticket with less than a 24 h stop over, which will cause of course additional expenses to the passenger, at the advertised price. On the issue of not being able to see clearly the definition of restricted, etc tickets or cost of changing reservations, this is clearly deceptive. The customer has no idea about the risks and the final price. According to advertising law, an advertisement is considered deceptive if it contains a statement or omits information that “is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances; and is, ‘material’ - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product.“ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantiSuk Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Qatar's web-site clearly displays the stopover time at the flight selection time, before you start to make a reservation. Most businesses use the "[product x] price starting from $y" approach. If the advertisement did not use the "price from" designation I would agree that's cheating if it were an offer that no one in their right mind would want. However, there are some people who choose these long stopovers in order to grab a nights sleep and a look around the city - not sure about Qatar but Emirates certainly allow a land-side opportunity with their long stopovers. I would guess that this fact means there was not a breach of advertising regulation (but maybe your home nation's advertising regulations are particularly fierce). Sympathies anyway - if Qatar were playing a bit fast and loose then it was counterproductive - clearly instead of trapping a new customer they have probably lost one for life! Regular travellers to Bangkok have learnt to ignore the special offer shower of marketing $hit we get from all and sundry and just shop around Edited July 25, 2013 by SantiSuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I have some sympathy with the OP. I too have been sucked into the Qatar website. You need to look carefully to spot the layover times. Fortunately I did. What's even worse about Qatar is that if you go for the long layover, there is no free transit hotel because there is always an alternative flight to the UK with a layover of less than 8 hours, albeit much more expensive. So their terms and conditions deny you the transit hotel and you are sat in the terminal for 9 hours or 15 hours or whatever. Or you fork out for the hotel, your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satcommlee Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) A friend took a fare like that once and actually got a hotel room for free as it was a connecting flight so to speak, He was business class too.. edit: with Qatar Edited July 25, 2013 by Satcommlee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GrantSmith Posted July 25, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2013 Feeling cheated? Did QR fail to deliver on their promise after you purchased your ticket? Oh wait.. You didn't buy that particular ticket... So the thread title needs to be adjusted as it implies a transaction took place. QR displays their fares and timings of flights for you to "freely" choose your desired flights, now had they advertised that they were offering the said fare under a slogan that mentioned specific times i.e fly BKK-FRA in J via DOH in under 24hrs then they could be misleading based on your rant. QR isn't holding a gun to your head, you don't want the juicy fare, choose another option. It's not rocket science... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moradave Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I once had a 10 hour layover with JAL in Tokyo which I knew about when I bought the ticket. I did not fancy spending 10 hours in the airport so I asked when I arrived in Tokyo if they would put me in a hotel, at their expense. They did. And I was flying economy. They also provided me round trip transportation to the hotel (4 star) and 2 buffet meals at the hotel (which were excellent). So it never hurts to ask. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAIPHUKET Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 Gentlemen, it is clearly a bait price, because QR has no intention of selling the majority of their seats for that price. They catch your attention with an unrealistic low price PLUS they make it hard to figure out cost of changes in schedule or ticket classes. Try it. Read above language again. Pricing must be upfront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Only checking yesterday flights, airline that give a price as a Promotion, yet when you go to book they do not even go there ? Qatar was one such airline... Normally when I go to Australia I go Thai Air......... just looking, and you come up with far cheaper flights, but read carefully, had this on one route 46h 55m layover in Kuala Lumpur that is saving a 1,000 baht over a 4 hour layover....... guess fine if you need to go to KL for 2 days as 10,000 baht cheaper than Thai Air.flying direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomatopo Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I understand that people like to vent, and I think it is healthy to do so, but, QR has multiple flights between BKK and DOH, three dailies I think, and ~ two dailies for DOH-FRA (one daily, one 3x/wk, another 4x/wk). Not all of these line up perfectly - thus the challenge of the hub/spoke, and a 25 hour connection also represents a 1 hour connection, which might be below their MCT at DOH. Offering a 25 hour connection as an option to consumers seems reasonable to me. Some might enjoy the lay-over, especially given free lodging (in business class). And if you don't, then you shouldn't purchase a ticket with this routing. I am fairly certain that if QR has inventory then they will present the option - it could sell out during your transaction time of course - and does have an intention to sell it, albeit at a lower price. Hub/spoke carriers have very complex, and what appears to be somewhat arbitrary availability, on what might be referred to as "married segments", in this case BKK-DOH and DOH-FRA. So it is possible to see vastly different inventory for BKK-DOH/DOH-FRA and BKK-(DOH)-FRA. But this is a different issue, but one that has come up here in the past. I'm still not seeing any improper business conduct here, but as I've said, "improper business conduct" has different meanings to different people. It certainly doesn't violate any FTC (U.S.) regulations which I am aware of. Typically consumers can specify exact routings, so could choose BKK-DOH and day n and DOH-BKK on day n or day n + 1 (for an overnight flight). I'm not certain that airlines could present fare information (routings, travel time, connections, lay-overs, rules, price, et al.) in some universally acceptable format given that we (consumers) all have different requirements. I stepped through Qr's process from promotional page to booking and thought that it was one of the most clear, concise, intuitive, informative and easy to understand of most of the airline's websites I've tried. As they say, your indignation may vary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantSmith Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Gentlemen, it is clearly a bait price, because QR has no intention of selling the majority of their seats for that price. They catch your attention with an unrealistic low price PLUS they make it hard to figure out cost of changes in schedule or ticket classes. Try it. Read above language again. Pricing must be upfront. In any case, why are you quoting US laws as a reference? The US laws have absolutely NOTHING to do with this. For your argument based on "bait and switch" or fraudulent business activities you would need to reference either Thai, Qatari or German law. Any way allow me to indulge you a bit on this. It's not a bait and switch. Your above interpretation of this "bait and switch" statute makes no mention of actual numbers required, nor does it require there to be a majority of anything. There's no deceptive language used as far as I can see from your QR example. Like I mentioned earlier, QR is offering you a price to get you from BKK to FRA with an obvious stop over in DOH. This "scam" as you refer to it as, is called "revenue management" or "yield management" Ever wondered why there are so many fare classes on an aircraft that realistically has only 3 classes of travel? Fare classes are devised as such so that an airline can make enough money to (in theory) cover their base costs, each fare class is allocated a number of seats per flight. Once taken up the price bracket goes up, this is known as "dynamic pricing" - same applies in the hotel industry. Only checking yesterday flights, airline that give a price as a Promotion, yet when you go to book they do not even go there ? Qatar was one such airline... Normally when I go to Australia I go Thai Air......... just looking, and you come up with far cheaper flights, but read carefully, had this on one route 46h 55m layover in Kuala Lumpur that is saving a 1,000 baht over a 4 hour layover....... guess fine if you need to go to KL for 2 days as 10,000 baht cheaper than Thai Air.flying direct. So QR is offering you a 2 day layover in KUL before flying you to Australia, saving you THB10,000 over TG which flies you direct? Your statement is a little confusing... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 So QR is offering you a 2 day layover in KUL before flying you to Australia, saving you THB10,000 over TG which flies you direct? Your statement is a little confusing... This was doing a search BKK to PER...in November.... nothing about visiting KUL or SIN for days.... just looking at other options to Thai Air............ same airline on same page starts with cheapest.......... only looking more into times did I see it said there was a 46 hour 55 m layover.... had it nor been in red may well have missed it [+ up the size to read it].......... sure if you were wanting to spend 40 odd hours in KUL maybe a good deal + was near 1,000 baht cheaper than only 4 hour layover opinion 2.. Maybe just me and getting older, cannot find things as easy.......... I am sure it was much easier a few years ago, eg: Long Haul flight that went via BKK the joining in BKK for the last leg used to be easy to find and cheap..... far the cheaper + good option from BKK to Vietnam was Air France that stopped each way on there way to/from France.. likewise UK flights to AUS via BKK.. still use one that goes to/from KUL via BKK better airline than Thai and 1/2 the price.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHdiver Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Usually there is just a limited amount of seats available for cheap fares, my experience with Qatar (and other Airlines) is that they do offer them also with short conection times, however thouse seats get sold faster. No cheating, you just have to be faster next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tw25rw Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I can understand this being a disappointment, but it might suit some people who want to overnight in Qatar. You always need to check all the details of any flight you take, not just the cheap ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantSmith Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 This was doing a search BKK to PER...in November.... nothing about visiting KUL or SIN for days.... just looking at other options to Thai Air............ same airline on same page starts with cheapest.......... only looking more into times did I see it said there was a 46 hour 55 m layover.... had it nor been in red may well have missed it [+ up the size to read it].......... sure if you were wanting to spend 40 odd hours in KUL maybe a good deal + was near 1,000 baht cheaper than only 4 hour layover opinion 2.. Maybe just me and getting older, cannot find things as easy.......... I am sure it was much easier a few years ago, eg: Long Haul flight that went via BKK the joining in BKK for the last leg used to be easy to find and cheap..... far the cheaper + good option from BKK to Vietnam was Air France that stopped each way on there way to/from France.. likewise UK flights to AUS via BKK.. still use one that goes to/from KUL via BKK better airline than Thai and 1/2 the price.. Didn't think it was possible to further to confuse on the question, but there you go, blew me straight out of the water with that reply... Ok let me put it simply... Which airline and what website was offering you this 2 day stop over in KUL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55Jay Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Did you send them a complaint? If no, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajyindee Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) Gentlemen, it is clearly a bait price, because QR has no intention of selling the majority of their seats for that price. They catch your attention with an unrealistic low price PLUS they make it hard to figure out cost of changes in schedule or ticket classes. Try it. Read above language again. Pricing must be upfront. Qatar make it very easy for you when booking a flight. If price is your primary consideration, you can elect to display the search results by price. If the schedule is your prime consideration, you can elect to show the results of the search by time. As for their offers - they quite specifically state "from" before the price. I don't think they stated anywhere that all seats, or even the majority, were available at the offer price. Edited July 26, 2013 by rajyindee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UbonOz Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Ahhhhh, so it is not only Air Asia that use these tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UbonOz Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 There probably is the advertised fare somewhere, but, it is not on the dates you wish to travel, probably already been sold. Their cheapest fares are not available on every seat on every flight. Get over it, that is how the airlines operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) Didn't think it was possible to further to confuse on the question, but there you go, blew me straight out of the water with that reply... Ok let me put it simply... Which airline and what website was offering you this 2 day stop over in KUL? Outbound Flight - Mon 11 Nov 2013 Duration: 13h 30m AK1945 Mon 11 Nov, 14:55 Departs from Bangkok Don Mueang International Arpt Airport (DMK) Tue 12 Nov, 18:10 Arrives at Kuala Lumpur (KUL) 26h 15m -43h 55m layover in Kuala Lumpur D7236 Mon 11 Nov, 00:05 Departs from Kuala Lumpur (KUL) Tue 12 Nov, 05:25 Arrives at Perth (PER) 29h 20m Return Flight - Wed 13 Nov 2013 Duration: 20h 55m TR2717 Wed 13 Nov, 21:45 Departs from Perth (PER) Thu 14 Nov, 03:00 Arrives at Singapore Changi (SIN) 5h 15m -11h 10m layover in Singapore Changi TR2108 Wed 13 Nov, 16:10 Departs from Singapore Changi (SIN) Thu 14 Nov, 17:40 Arrives at Bangkok (BKK) 26h 30m http://www.wego.com/flights/results/bkk/per/2013-11-11/2013-11-13/roundtrip/economy/1/0?id=f9fc6fe687e2f3708ae8bf6b4ae48f3276abe8c2# The whole times list makes no sense.... + appears 43h 55m now layover, this afternoon was as cut and past in post before + now 990 baht more expensive....... it is beyond me.. need a translator ? they even have 1x flight BKK to India to Singapore to Perth, leaving Perth the day before arriving there ?? Maybe it is just me, cannot even work out what day it is leaving ? if it departs on Tue 12 Nov, 18:10 DMK, how is it possible to catch (KUL) Tue 12 Nov, 05:25 flight which has left many hours before even leaving DMK? and where is the layover come in ? I did all the booking but did not pay as the above came up.......... 'Your Booking Selection' not much clearer on http://flights.cheaptickets.co.th/results/index.jsp?s=79975804&tab=1&startItinId=0&cb=12619005003 Edited July 26, 2013 by ignis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantSmith Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Wow.. So we've gone from discussing QR to being confused by a combination fare from Air Asia and Tiger Airways... Sorry ignis, this is about QR's alleged "bait & switch" not the Air Asia / Tiger Airways is ripping me off thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Wow.. So we've gone from discussing QR to being confused by a combination fare from Air Asia and Tiger Airways... Sorry ignis, this is about QR's alleged "bait & switch" not the Air Asia / Tiger Airways is ripping me off thread... Yes it all very confusing......... but you did ask...... So to 100% Topic and what was in my 1st post... clearly shows BKK to Perth Australia with Qatar Airways, 19,809 baht with Tax and Service fees.......... YES I was interested = good airline and cheaper than Thai Air but try to book ............. Then that is beyond me as booking charges the route and doubles the price ?? Qatar Airways Travel Time 11 Nov from Bangkok Suvarnabhumi International (BKK) to Perth, WA (PER) via Doha 2 flights at 7:55 PM, 8:00 PM Min: 20h 20m Max: 20h 25m 13 Nov from Perth, WA (PER) to Bangkok Suvarnabhumi International (BKK) via Doha 1 flight at 10:45 PM 20h 45m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) Wow.. So we've gone from discussing QR to being confused by a combination fare from Air Asia and Tiger Airways... Sorry ignis, this is about QR's alleged "bait & switch" not the Air Asia / Tiger Airways is ripping me off thread... It makes me laugh the lengths some THAI (the airline) haters will go to in order to fly any another airline (especially when they already live in Thailand) and then get even more upset when their 'favourite' non-Thai airline shatters their illusion of being oh so clever. PS. Thanks for that earlier mention on dynamic pricing. If I had added that to the debate on the why tickets bought in Bangkok are more expensive rip-off thread. I am sure some heads will have exploded. Edited July 26, 2013 by NanLaew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantSmith Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Stick around NanLaew, a few more posts like we've already seen and we might see some spontaneous combustion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 It makes me laugh the lengths some THAI (the airline) haters will go to in order to fly any another airline (especially when they already live in Thailand) Myself have no problem with Thai Airways....... just for my November Trip the arrival time and departure time is not good, would need to spend another 2 nights there........ No way will I be spending 22 to over 40 hours to do a Thai Air under 7 hour trip... The only budget Airline I have ever been on was years ago Freddie Laker... London to New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishcarlos Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I know this is Qatar Airways thread... So, I'm in Qatar working now and had no issues with them.. Some people will never be satisfied, especially when they don't read the website properly... However, why would anyone flying to Perth, Australia go via Doha !!!!!! It's in the wrong direction, not just a little way but a long way in the wrong direction Just go with JetStar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I know this is Qatar Airways thread... So, I'm in Qatar working now and had no issues with them.. Some people will never be satisfied, especially when they don't read the website properly... However, why would anyone flying to Perth, Australia go via Doha !!!!!! It's in the wrong direction, not just a little way but a long way in the wrong direction Just go with JetStar.... Yes very true, but if Qatar had the advertised price, would rather sit in a good airline,,,,,,,,, same time 22 hours as flying with Jetstar = no food, no drink + sitting in airport for hours.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantSmith Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 NanLaew you still reading this thread.. It just keeps getting better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I know this is Qatar Airways thread... So, I'm in Qatar working now and had no issues with them.. Some people will never be satisfied, especially when they don't read the website properly... However, why would anyone flying to Perth, Australia go via Doha !!!!!! It's in the wrong direction, not just a little way but a long way in the wrong direction Just go with JetStar.... Found something much cheaper and as good ? Malaysian Airways BKK-KUL-PER 17,000 baht Total + Taxes + Surcharges: THB 20,345.00 over 5,000 cheaper than Thai Air... and very little more than the Qatar Air Promotion, that doubled when trying to book.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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