Khon Kaen Man Kills Ladyboy After She 'Touches His Penis'

[chooka]

@KuhnPaen

"A woman getting assaulted is not legally the same as a man."

I hate to inform you that you are totally wrong.

As a serving police officer I can tell you 110% it is exactly the same, the law does not discriminate between the sexes.

And I 110% call BS on that. As a cop you know that your whole job is shades of gray. You know dam_n well that if a drunk guy came up to you and told you he got his junk grabbed by a girl, that you would probably say congratulations. If not you--then one of your partners. On the other hand, if a 9 year old girl said that? You would probably taser the guy or worse.

The "eyes of the law" is you and your judgment call. There is spirit and letter of the law.

That of course would depend. Are you a Hollywood cop or a small town sheriff? Because, yeah, there's a big difference in how those eyes of the law see.

And I train police officers so I understand your job. I have family and friends that are cops too. No disrespect to your profession intended.

If someone came to me to report a sexual assault I would definitely investigate it, no matter how I thought of it and I would treat all the same. I am not about to handover my house and 1st born if the guy wants to make a complaint that I simply laughed him off. A sexual assault is not considered a minor offence where I am from. If you train police officers then you have worked the streets and dealt with people from all walks of life, you would be well aware how a police station operates and the courts. You would be well aware that police operate impartially and without bias. You would also be well aware of the internal disciplinary action one will face for neglect.

You can say I am full of B/S if you want and I don't really care, I know my job 1st hand as a sworn operational member. The only civilian trainer we had was the public servant who taught typing or the other instructors were experienced operational members.

Edited July 27, 2013 by chooka

[chooka]

@KuhnPaen

"A woman getting assaulted is not legally the same as a man."

I hate to inform you that you are totally wrong.

As a serving police officer I can tell you 110% it is exactly the same, the law does not discriminate between the sexes.

And I 110% call BS on that. As a cop you know that your whole job is shades of gray. You know dam_n well that if a drunk guy came up to you and told you he got his junk grabbed by a girl, that you would probably say congratulations. If not you--then one of your partners. On the other hand, if a 9 year old girl said that? You would probably taser the guy or worse.

The "eyes of the law" is you and your judgment call. There is spirit and letter of the law.

That of course would depend. Are you a Hollywood cop or a small town sheriff? Because, yeah, there's a big difference in how those eyes of the law see.

And I train police officers so I understand your job. I have family and friends that are cops too. No disrespect to your profession intended.

If someone came to me to report a sexual assault I would definitely investigate it, no matter how I thought of it and I would treat all the same. I am not about to handover my house and 1st born if the guy wants to make a complaint that I simply laughed him off. A sexual assault is not considered a minor offence where I come from. If you train police officers then you have worked the streets and dealt with people from all walks of life, you would be well aware how a police station operates and the courts. You would be well aware that police operate impartially and without bias. You would also be well aware of the internal disciplinary action one will face for neglect.

You can say I am full of B/S if you want and I don't really care, I know my job 1st hand as a sworn operational member. The only civilian trainer we had was the public servant who taught typing or the other instructors were experienced operational members.

Edited July 27, 2013 by chooka

[jackspratt]

.

So do you think us, the breeders should change or lady boys should start to live in a real world.

Please, for the sake of Darwinian theory and evolution, confirm that you are not a "breeder".

Edited July 27, 2013 by jackspratt

[Bluespunk]

Does it matter? It's my opinion and that's all there is, I hold it to be true and others can agree or disagree but it doesn't make it any less true to me. Just as a ladyboy can call themselves as she if that is how they consider themselves. I don't understand why others cannot accept their right to consider themselves not to be male.

Well of course it does, because just few posts ago you were questioning why my opinion matters more than a ladyboy.

So now please be kind enough to explain why your opinion counts and matters over mine?

Ladyboy can call itself whatever it likes, and no one cares what they think,

They have a penis, they are men. How they feel and what they want is their problem and no one else's.

If you see a girl you like in the club, does it really matter what you want to do with her? what matters is if she wants to do it with you.

NO different to you wanting to pick up a lesbian, only lesbian is not interested in men, she is interested in women.

I am interested in women, i am not interested in a man dressed as a woman, nor do i care what HE thinks or feels,, HE is a man.

Funny enough in the rest of the world, there so called ladyboys do not hang around straight clubs and do not try to grab every man's cock. while in Thailand for some crazy reason you think its acceptable and should be put in consideration

No, I was questioning your assumption that your opinion was more relevant than a ladyboys. I was questioning your assumption that because you disagree with the ladyboys view then they are wrong. You clearly don't like ladyboys and feel that their views are irrelevant. Why should it matter to you or me that they have a view of who they are and some want to be called she? Let them.

Exactly the point, he wants to be called a SHE, but others see him as a HE, perhaps because he is a HE, and only a SHE in his own opinion

So much venom. You clearly cannot entertain the concept that we are not all the same, that ladyboys can be considered she because that is how they feel. This debate with you is completely circular and going way off topic. However I will say this:

If Belle wished to be she then that is what she was. I hope the guy who murdered her does receive the sentence his crime merits. Touching or groping someone without their permission is wrong, but it should not result in murder.

[KuhnPaen]

@KuhnPaen

"A woman getting assaulted is not legally the same as a man."

I hate to inform you that you are totally wrong.

As a serving police officer I can tell you 110% it is exactly the same, the law does not discriminate between the sexes.

And I 110% call BS on that. As a cop you know that your whole job is shades of gray. You know dam_n well that if a drunk guy came up to you and told you he got his junk grabbed by a girl, that you would probably say congratulations. If not you--then one of your partners. On the other hand, if a 9 year old girl said that? You would probably taser the guy or worse.

The "eyes of the law" is you and your judgment call. There is spirit and letter of the law.

That of course would depend. Are you a Hollywood cop or a small town sheriff? Because, yeah, there's a big difference in how those eyes of the law see.

And I train police officers so I understand your job. I have family and friends that are cops too. No disrespect to your profession intended.

If someone came to me to report a sexual assault I would definitely investigate it, no matter how I thought of it and I would treat all the same. I am not about to handover my house and 1st born if the guy wants to make a complaint that I simply laughed him off. If you train police officers then you have worked the streets and dealt with people from all walks of life, you would be well aware how a police station operates and the courts. You would be well aware that police operate impartially and without bias. You would also be well aware of the internal disciplinary action one will face for neglect.

You can say I am full of B/S if you want and I don't really care, I know my job 1st hand as a sworn operational member. The only civilian trainer we had was the public servant who taught typing or the other instructors were experienced operational members.

I don't think you are full of BS. The impartiality part is legit, and doing the paperwork only if the person presses charges is standard. But the reality of dealing with every knucklehead who has a fist fight, or claims some minor problem would see the county jail overflowing. So in a city like LA, the small cases like getting a crotch grab, tend to take a backseat to more serious crimes. Probably in Chicago, New York, or BKK too.

I understand how things are supposed to be and how they are in reality.

These off-topic comments started due to trying to understand the mindset of some members. Since we all have different opinions on what is a justifiable use of force for executing someone. Some feel that touching their penis through their clothing would warrant a beat down or an execution. To me, that is repulsive. Just my opinion.

FYI...I run a well known boxing gym in Los Angeles. Just to clarify--many of my clients/students are police officers and have been for 15 years. I do not work at the academy. Many police train in MMA/muay Thai for their safety on the street. Happy to be a part of that.

Edited July 27, 2013 by KuhnPaen

[lemoncake]

So much venom. You clearly cannot entertain the concept that we are not all the same, that ladyboys can be considered she because that is how they feel. This debate with you is completely circular and going way off topic. However I will say this:

If Belle wished to be she then that is what she was. I hope the guy who murdered her does receive the sentence his crime merits. Touching or groping someone without their permission is wrong, but it should not result in murder.

There is no venom at all, it is calling spade a spade, instead of Thailandising it.

I never said ladyboy deserved to be killed and did say it was stupid to kill someone over something so silly, however you will find Ladyboys get bashed pretty badly if they try something like this in the rest of the world.

If you spend enough time in Walking streets in Pattaya, it is rather a common occurrence for ladyboys to grope men walking past them, when or if the man pushes them back they attack, viciously attack with bottles and high heels.

[lemoncake]

@KuhnPaen

"A woman getting assaulted is not legally the same as a man."

I hate to inform you that you are totally wrong.

As a serving police officer I can tell you 110% it is exactly the same, the law does not discriminate between the sexes.

And I 110% call BS on that. As a cop you know that your whole job is shades of gray. You know dam_n well that if a drunk guy came up to you and told you he got his junk grabbed by a girl, that you would probably say congratulations. If not you--then one of your partners. On the other hand, if a 9 year old girl said that? You would probably taser the guy or worse.

The "eyes of the law" is you and your judgment call. There is spirit and letter of the law.

That of course would depend. Are you a Hollywood cop or a small town sheriff? Because, yeah, there's a big difference in how those eyes of the law see.

And I train police officers so I understand your job. I have family and friends that are cops too. No disrespect to your profession intended.

You train police officers:cheesy: and i wrestle with lions:w00t:

IF a drunk man goes up to police officer and/or police station and says a female grabbed his cock and he wants to press charges, police officer by law obliged to take down the report and evidence and take it from there.

But you keep on training the police officers, while speaking fluent Thai, Got to love the keyboard experts:cheesy:

You train lions? That's interesting.

You are correct, they must take the report, but that is if the person wants to make the report, but most cops would prefer not to. In Los Angeles anyway.

And yes, I teach Muay Thai for a living and many of my clients are police officers. I also speak fluent Thai. Care to Skype with me and test my abilities?

You see, when you travel to Thailand several times a year, for over a decade, and take classes, and live in the boondocks, a make an effort to learn--a strange thing happens---you actually learn a language. Try it with your English.

Priceless, truly priceless

Good to see while learning fluent Thai, you have lost the ability to read basic English, please underline for me where i said "TRAIN" Lions

Edited July 27, 2013 by lemoncake

[Maggusoil]

Considering that his passport and id card said MR, it is irrelevant what he preferred.

and what does that have to do with respect?

Thai trans people are not allowed under Thai law to change the sex on their ID. That is an issue that is being worked on and I reckon over time it will be allowed. Too late for this particular person though sadly. This person murdered was a human being who did nothing remotely justifying murderous violence. Perhaps a slap though.

I never said he deserved to be killed and if you read back, i did say it was stupid, however officially he is still a he and as such should be referred to as a he in official reports

Relax man. You can call ladyboys he and most of the rest of us will most likely call them she, because they look, sound, mostly probably feel like, and want to be known as she. She is now no more, because another person like you could not bear the burden of allowing someone else, harmlessly to be what they want to be. Like someone said a man, a decent rational human being would have said no thanks to the penis touching and if really offended, would have asked HER to get off and walk. End of story.

I hope the idiot with the gun gets slammed in the pen for a really long time to consider the reorientation of his priorities in life.

[tonneke breda]

Don't know why this article keeps referring to the khatoey as a 'she'. They are men.

Does it really matter. She is dead because of macho ego BS. if a ladyboy wants to be called she, who gives a flying f@#%

Why MACHO-EGO?? didn't touching ones privates turned violent????

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

So much venom. You clearly cannot entertain the concept that we are not all the same, that ladyboys can be considered she because that is how they feel. This debate with you is completely circular and going way off topic. However I will say this:

If Belle wished to be she then that is what she was. I hope the guy who murdered her does receive the sentence his crime merits. Touching or groping someone without their permission is wrong, but it should not result in murder.

There is no venom at all, it is calling spade a spade, instead of Thailandising it.

I never said ladyboy deserved to be killed and did say it was stupid to kill someone over something so silly, however you will find Ladyboys get bashed pretty badly if they try something like this in the rest of the world.

If you spend enough time in Walking streets in Pattaya, it is rather a common occurrence for ladyboys to grope men walking past them, when or if the man pushes them back they attack, viciously attack with bottles and high heels.

another reason to visit pattaya

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

Considering that his passport and id card said MR, it is irrelevant what he preferred.

and what does that have to do with respect?

Thai trans people are not allowed under Thai law to change the sex on their ID. That is an issue that is being worked on and I reckon over time it will be allowed. Too late for this particular person though sadly. This person murdered was a human being who did nothing remotely justifying murderous violence. Perhaps a slap though.

I never said he deserved to be killed and if you read back, i did say it was stupid, however officially he is still a he and as such should be referred to as a he in official reports

Relax man. You can call ladyboys he and most of the rest of us will most likely call them she, because they look, sound, mostly probably feel like, and want to be known as she. She is now no more, because another person like you could not bear the burden of allowing someone else, harmlessly to be what they want to be. Like someone said

a man, a decent rational human being would have said no thanks to the penis touching and if really offended, would have asked HER to get off and walk. End of story.

I hope the idiot with the gun gets slammed in the pen for a really long time to consider the reorientation of his priorities in life.

no pun intended surely?

[giggles]

it was bound to happen theyre too fond of groping strangers privates in public places without prior permission to do so .

[Jingthing]

Perhaps but on a scale of offenses, 1 to 100:

1: Grope

100: Shooting dead with gun

Next ...

[Bluespunk]

Don't know why this article keeps referring to the khatoey as a 'she'. They are men.

Does it really matter. She is dead because of macho ego BS. if a ladyboy wants to be called she, who gives a flying f@#%

Why MACHO-EGO?? didn't touching ones privates turned violent????

If you mean should one turn violent because yours nuts are stroked, then no you shouldn't. It is crazy to kill someone over something like this. It was wrong for her to touch this guy, but not deserving of such a cowardly action.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Bluespunk

[louse1953]

It is really not recommended to mess around with Thais. I don't even joke around with them. Too risky.

Go on,you risk taker you.

[BwindiBoy]

Don't know why this article keeps referring to the khatoey as a 'she'. They are men.

Assuming the murder victim preferred to be addressed as a female in life, how about in RESPECT for this dead person?

You mean MR. Jutapol?!

[EyesWideOpen]

How about a counter point to clarify the he/she matter ? Let's say there is a girl who decides one day she is really a man inside. She hangs a plastic penis between her legs, and asks all her friends, family, and strangers she meets to address her as a man, even though she clearly is not. Would this :

1. Be perfectly reasonable behaviour ??

2. Earn you a psych evaluation for hold an internalised view of yourself

that is completely at odds with reality ??

I swear sometimes living here I feel like I am in a live version of the story by Hans Christian Anderson, The Emperor's New Clothes..........

I do not believe ANYONE on this thread is advocating that being shot for touching a penis is a reasonable course of action. Seeing the responses here, clearly we would act in different ways. This episode was simply a piece of bad luck, where an overly aggressive lady boy met up with gun toting hot tempered Thai, with a really poor result..

Edited July 27, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[HHM]

In Germany we have a lot homosexuals and they are respected and they respect straight people so we go along well. In Thailand I experianced several times that ladyboys think laws are not for them. They approach you in an impolite way or even rob you ( my moblie was once stolen by two ladyboys coming on a motorbile). So as long as some ladyboys do not behvae they must be aware that they risk something though shooting someone is not to be excused at all.

[attento]

...

Ladyboys never seem to hang around gay bars, but always around straight men bars.

Because gay men are much less likely to be sexually be into people presenting as WOMEN than straight men. Duh!

RIP to the murder victim.

There is no excuse.

Not sure where you hang around, but straight man do not get sexually involved with other man, hence why they are straight man.unless mislead or inexperienced to spot a man in frock.

A straight man does not get involved with other men ????????? who told you that, or do you not want to realize -Example countless married lorry drivers in the UK, drive down to or through London area. Missing from home a day or two===pick up boys in London for a Quickie... countless straight men pick up other men in toilets,

some people cannot see wood for trees. ask gay men if all their encounters are gay---no way would be the answer.---Get about a bit, not just assume.

Countless ? "uncounted" would be more accurate. and, why would they pick-up boys when there is no shortage of women offering services to heterosexual drivers?. maybe, your last sentence applies.

Edited July 27, 2013 by attento

[Jingthing]

Perhaps but on a scale of offenses, 1 to 100:

1: Grope

100: Shooting dead with gun

Next ...

I can not help but wonder what scale you would use in your thread if you were groped by a real female on a baht bus.

...

It would be off the scale. I would think it was funny.

[DavidBonnie]

It is patently ridiculous to try drawing comparisons to prove a point. A Thai ladyboy who has lived almost her whole life as a woman cannot be compared with someone who decided one day to wear a plastic penis and be referred to as a man.

The reason this convo has not moved on is because no one is asking questions and most people are trying to force their opinion on others.

If some of you choose to refer to a ladyboy as male, up to you. You have not really done much of a job of aculturising yourselves, in my opinion.

Visits to Pattaya will not tend to inform you about ladyboys only about prostitutes. HMM, your post is typical of those that generalise ladyboys with prostitution. The ladyboy who was killed was not (as far as we know) a prostitute. Let's remember that.

I have seen many female prostitutes (they are usually the ones who are not so good looking) rubbing mens crotches in public and the men seemed to enjoy it.

Why do men get SO ANGRY when a ladyboy hooker touches them? I have seen some violent responses from guys over the years . . . I think I know why but would like to ask?

Edited July 27, 2013 by cheyenne

[antfish]

Living in Pattaya, of course I'm not at all attracted to LBs because being gay they look, think, and act in a female fashion. However, frankly I couldn't care less if a LB grabbed my junk. They wouldn't get that far as I would be assuming what they were really after was my wallet. Yes I know there are respectable LBs but the ones grabbing about the pants areas of strangers aren't of that sort.

So you think it wasn't a sexual assault as some say but an attempt to robbery?

But then we should also keep in mind we have heard only one side of the story and the victum cannot tell hers.

I said nothing of the kind regarding the murder in question. Cheers.

The vast majority of the transgender woman in Thailand are probably respectable persons just like anyone else.

Only a few might be thieves, pickpockets like you have encountered.

Why telling us that anecdote when you don't think there is any connection to the topic Khon Kaen Man Kills Ladyboy After She 'Touches His Penis'.

[katana]

I think there is more to this story than we are being told. Why was a ladyboy on a bike leaving a club in the early hours with two supposedly straight men. They didn't know she was a ladyboy and were just giving her a lift home? Hard to believe.

If Mr Anuchit has such a pathological aversion to ladyboys then why was he wedged onto a motorcycle along with one? Doesn't quite add up.

He is a bare faced liar. I hope the police do not believe his bullshit. There is more to this story and I hope they get to the bottom of it.

Stay tuned for the rest of the story

It's reported in yesterday's and today's Thairath that after the shooter, 23 year old Mr Anuchit, shot the katoey, 22 year old Jatuporn, once in the right temple, he then proceeded to steal her handbag containing 200 Baht and a Samsung mobile phone.

Anuchit said that as he was leaving the 99 Pub in Central Khon Kaen with friends at 3 am on 14/07/13, he was approached by Jatuporn in the car park begging for a lift back to her dormitory, as she was stranded there. On the journey back, 3 on the bike, with Anuchit in the middle, Jatuporn began grabbing Anuchit's penis and asking him for sex which enraged him and led to the shooting.

Seems strange in the midst of all this Anuchit, had the time and inclination to steal the katoey's handbag as well.

Wonder how he got such an accurate head shot to the temple as well with a crude homemade pen gun? Maybe there was some robbery motive and the homosexual rage defence is being used to mitigate things.

Pen Gun? are these common in Thailand?

Screen Shot 2013-07-27 at 10.36.28 AM.jpg

More pics here from Thai websites. They seem quite common in Thailand.

Edited July 27, 2013 by katana

[giggles]

cos theyre repulsive freaks who are using it as a diversionary tactic before robbing them of some personal effects ,like wallet ,chain or phone

[lemoncake]

It is patently ridiculous to try drawing comparisons to prove a point. A Thai ladyboy who has lived almost her whole life as a woman cannot be compared with someone who decided one day to wear a plastic penis and be referred to as a man.

The reason this convo has not moved on is because no one is asking questions and most people are trying to force their opinion on others.

If some of you choose to refer to a ladyboy as male, up to you. You have not really done much of a job of aculturising yourselves, in my opinion.

Visits to Pattaya will not tend to inform you about ladyboys only about prostitutes.

I have seen many female prostitutes (they are usually the ones who are not so good looking) rubbing mens crotches in public and the men seemed to enjoy it.

Why do men get SO ANGRY when a ladyboy hooker touches them? I have seen some violent responses from guys over the years . . . I think I know why but would like to ask?

1. How exactly do you know how long he lived dresses as a woman?

2. Not sure where you hang around or your taste to find ugly prostitutes

3. Straight man get angry when touched by another man might be because they are straight men and find it inappropriate and revolting to be touched by another man, irrespective if that man is dressed as a woman, but thats only a guess.

[lemoncake]

Living in Pattaya, of course I'm not at all attracted to LBs because being gay they look, think, and act in a female fashion. However, frankly I couldn't care less if a LB grabbed my junk. They wouldn't get that far as I would be assuming what they were really after was my wallet. Yes I know there are respectable LBs but the ones grabbing about the pants areas of strangers aren't of that sort.

So you think it wasn't a sexual assault as some say but an attempt to robbery?

But then we should also keep in mind we have heard only one side of the story and the victum cannot tell hers.

I said nothing of the kind regarding the murder in question. Cheers.

The vast majority of the transgender woman in Thailand are probably respectable persons just like anyone else.

Only a few might be thieves, pickpockets like you have encountered.

Why telling us that anecdote when you don't think there is any connection to the topic Khon Kaen Man Kills Ladyboy After She 'Touches His Penis'.

Well if they are so respectable, perhaps you can explain the reason why you cannot see many if any working in the banks, government offices or just around.

Why is it that in Thailand, so many men are born feeling like a female comparing to the rest of the world and why so many chose to sell their ass instead of working.

Could you also please explain why there are hardly if any older ladyboys around, what exactly happened to them?

Edited July 27, 2013 by lemoncake

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

So much venom. You clearly cannot entertain the concept that we are not all the same, that ladyboys can be considered she because that is how they feel. This debate with you is completely circular and going way off topic. However I will say this:

If Belle wished to be she then that is what she was. I hope the guy who murdered her does receive the sentence his crime merits. Touching or groping someone without their permission is wrong, but it should not result in murder.

There is no venom at all, it is calling spade a spade, instead of Thailandising it.

I never said ladyboy deserved to be killed and did say it was stupid to kill someone over something so silly, however you will find Ladyboys get bashed pretty badly if they try something like this in the rest of the world.

If you spend enough time in Walking streets in Pattaya, it is rather a common occurrence for ladyboys to grope men walking past them, when or if the man pushes them back they attack, viciously attack with bottles and high heels.

another reason to visit pattaya

Good to see you understand Pattaya is little more than just Walking Street

Do you?

i do.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

So you think it wasn't a sexual assault as some say but an attempt to robbery?

But then we should also keep in mind we have heard only one side of the story and the victum cannot tell hers.

I said nothing of the kind regarding the murder in question. Cheers.

The vast majority of the transgender woman in Thailand are probably respectable persons just like anyone else.

Only a few might be thieves, pickpockets like you have encountered.

Why telling us that anecdote when you don't think there is any connection to the topic Khon Kaen Man Kills Ladyboy After She 'Touches His Penis'.

Well if they are so respectable, perhaps you can explain the reason why you cannot see many if any working in the banks, government offices or just around.

Why is it that in Thailand, so many men are born feeling like a female comparing to the rest of the world and why so many chose to sell their ass instead of working.

Could you also please explain why there are hardly if any older ladyboys around, what exactly happened to them?

umm, government hiring policies either implicit or explicit?

they are like cats, they slope off to die behind the sofa.

[lemoncake]

umm, government hiring policies either implicit or explicit?

they are like cats, they slope off to die behind the sofa.

So perhaps not as respected as some like to believe?

As for where are the older ones, it was actually a genuine question

[Thai at Heart]

Considering that his passport and id card said MR, it is irrelevant what he preferred.

and what does that have to do with respect?

Thai trans people are not allowed under Thai law to change the sex on their ID. That is an issue that is being worked on and I reckon over time it will be allowed. Too late for this particular person though sadly. This person murdered was a human being who did nothing remotely justifying murderous violence. Perhaps a slap though.

I never said he deserved to be killed and if you read back, i did say it was stupid, however officially he is still a he and as such should be referred to as a he in official reports

Relax man. You can call ladyboys he and most of the rest of us will most likely call them she, because they look, sound, mostly probably feel like, and want to be known as she. She is now no more, because another person like you could not bear the burden of allowing someone else, harmlessly to be what they want to be. Like someone said a man, a decent rational human being would have said no thanks to the penis touching and if really offended, would have asked HER to get off and walk. End of story.

I hope the idiot with the gun gets slammed in the pen for a really long time to consider the reorientation of his priorities in life.

What do you mean"he".

They are pee, Nong or Khun. How they are addressed in English is absolutely irrelevant in a Thai situation.