15 year old Bar Worker discovered at Soi 6 Bar by Pattaya Police

[Rimmer]

15 year old Bar Worker discovered at Soi 6 Bar by Pattaya Police

PATTAYA:--Police Colonel Suwan, the Pattaya Police Chief, conducted another undercover operation at a Pattaya Bar following information suggesting a child under the age of 18 was working inside.

On Wednesday Night a foreign operative was sent inside the “My Friend You Bar” located in Soi 6 off Pattaya Beach Road, armed with 3,000 Baht in marked bank notes, and was able to pay the money to the cashier in exchange for a “short time” encounter with a girl aged 15.

The money was handed over and the foreign operative indicated to waiting police officers that the transaction was complete. They moved in and detained everyone inside the bar including the 29 year old cashier and 13 bar workers aged between 19 and 38.
Full story:http://www.pattayaone.net/pattaya-news/97528/15-year-bar-worker-discovered-soi-6-bar-pattaya-police/

-- Pattaya One 2013-08-01

[pattayadingo]

And if you had gone to the bar, bar-fined her and been caught......

It would have cost you a lot more than 3000 Baht + a whole load of hassle.

Personally, I'm pleased the BiB are doing a good job lately of finding these underage workers.

[hanno]

foreign operative

Reading to many spy novels?

[Payboy]

13 bar workers between 19 and 38

38? Note to self - avoid My Friend You Bar.

[theblether]

They should prosecute and jail every one of the 19 to 38 year old's for allowing that child on the premises in the first place.

Give them a taste of collective responsibility, see how they like it.

[i claudius]

3000 baht for a short time? how things have changed ,when i first came to Pattaya it was 200 baht,and not many bar workers were over 25 ,i fact many were far younger ,there even used to be a bar(and no i never went in) that had schoolgirls in their school uniforms there.

[jbrain]

Look Mom, a picture from the hotel/restaurant where Lek is working

[fakename]

I hate to destroy your fantasy, but do you really think the school girls were really school girls?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Aight, massive outbreak of common sense for the masses:

13 bar workers between 19 and 38

38? Note to self - avoid My Friend You Bar.

Yes, clearly that's a better reason not to go than that they're employing children.

They should prosecute and jail every one of the 19 to 38 year old's for allowing that child on the premises in the first place.

Give them a taste of collective responsibility, see how they like it.

K.. putting exploited 19 year olds in jail for not daring/bothering to speak up about an exploited 15 year old. The worrying part? That this could still be one of your better ideas!

Look Mom, a picture from the hotel/restaurant where Lek is working

That's hilarious.

[jbrain]

^ Ran out of coffee this morning ?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As a matter of fact, YES. Is it that obvious..

Anyway, my comments:

The article mentioned that 'everyone' in the bar was arrested. Did this include customers? (Probably not.)

Secondly.. it seems the way they operate is to pay directly to the bar, in order to establish that the bar is taking money for sex. While that's not typical procedure, I think most bars would go with that if you wave 3000 baht in front of them... until today, perhaps.

So in addition to not employing children, it would also help to avoid taking money directly for sex, and avoid using the same premises for accommodation. As with any crackdown on anything, bars tend to do that for a while, police lose interest, then it slowly gets back to the way it was, until the next crackdown.

And finally, the obvious: prostitution seems de facto just fine with Pattaya police as long as it's consenting adults. They could (but don't) hit any other bar and arrest them for prostitution (over 18 year olds), but they're not doing it, not even just once to set an example.

Edited August 1, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Salapoo]

I hate to destroy your fantasy, but do you really think the school girls were really school girls?

the 15 yr old would surely be classed as one.

sounds like she was ratted out.... Perhaps taking too many customers from the 38 year olds...

[Salapoo]

btw, in case people aren't aware, MFY Bar is a 'special' bar offering special, er, lollipop-esque services while the punters sit back with a beer.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

btw, in case people aren't aware, MFY Bar is a 'special' bar offering special, er, lollipop-esque services while the punters sit back with a beer.

Don't they all, pretty much?

(But yes, I could find the place blindfolded, at night in a snowstorm. )

[4evermaat]

How often does this really happen in the bar or other brothel setting? I never saw underage workers or at least they did not appear underage.

"...the 2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from ThaiVisa app (Galaxy Note 2).

[brewsterbudgen]

How often does this really happen in the bar or other brothel setting? I never saw underage workers or at least they did not appear underage.

"...the 2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from ThaiVisa app (Galaxy Note 2).

It happens a lot. A bar in Nana Plaza was raided last week and underage workers found, although, perhaps strangely, it was under-reported.

It does appear that the authorities are beginning to take it more seriously although cynics might think it's not the girls' welfare that they are really concerned about. If they were they might start paying more attention to the thousands of massage parlours and karaoke bars catering for Asian clients.

[Orac]

btw, in case people aren't aware, MFY Bar is a 'special' bar offering special, er, lollipop-esque services while the punters sit back with a beer.

Don't they all, pretty much?

(But yes, I could find the place blindfolded, at night in a snowstorm. )

Actually no - most do not. It is noticeable that the two recent raids, with Carte Blanc being the other one, are well known as being a bit more hardcore than most other bars.

[Wavefloater]

I used to be very adventurous in my travels when I first moved to Thailand and would often find myself checking out smaller towns and villages - the ones well off the tourist circuit. Occasionally, I would happen across the "brothel" area of these villages or small towns and was shocked at how young the girls were sitting outside the bars. It was very clear by the clothes and makeup what these girls were doing -- what they were selling, and usually none of them looked anywhere near 18. What goes on in what we could term "strictly Thai" brothel environments would shock you.

It's certainly good that they sometimes flush out the odd underage worker in the tourist areas, but the many underage workers in non-tourist areas seems to be accepted by Thais.

[Payboy]

btw, in case people aren't aware, MFY Bar is a 'special' bar offering special, er, lollipop-esque services while the punters sit back with a beer.

I do prefer leaning forward while getting my chupa chups cleaned.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Payboy

[WinnieTheKhwai]

How often does this really happen in the bar or other brothel setting? I never saw underage workers or at least they did not appear underage.

Well.. it's not super common to have one or two 15-17 year old bargirls employed (or hanging around), but they're definitely there in a minority of bars, more by circumstance than by intent of actually providing underage girls. (Circumstance: the girl being there (sister/cousin etc of someone working there), being cute and wanting a job). So.. wild stab.. 5-10% of bars? Keep in mind we're including 17 year olds in this.

One thing though is that not all of those under 18 bargirls would routinely go with customers (tourists); having to supply ID at a hotel could be something they want to avoid. Or they borrow someone else's ID. Or they use trusted shorttime hotels only. Or upstairs accommodation in Soi 6 type places.

I live in Chiang Mai and it seems the same there, too. I met one yesterday who is probably 15-17, I guess I'll go find out now. (Not by asking directly of course, but it's easy to figure out at least if she's under 18, if not her actual age.). [Even with the notion that it's a bit more challenging in Chiang Mai sometimes because there are relatively a lot of hilltribe girls in bars, who tend to be tiny, also when aged 18-25.]

Another group may actually look older than they are, which would be young ladyboys. Being typically a bit taller they look older than your average 22 year old hill tribe midget, and covered in makeup they could actually be more seriously under-age than any other group.

Also what I encounter really a lot is that ex bargirls show up for a party of some sort, now happily married, but then it becomes completely apparent that if they're 26 now, and worked there 10 years ago, that they must have been 16 at the time.

So.. it's actually quite common. A lot of expats are always quick to dismiss it, pointing fingers at imaginary Thai brothels where the REAL underage girls work.. well.. dream on.

Edited August 1, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Wavefloater]

How often does this really happen in the bar or other brothel setting? I never saw underage workers or at least they did not appear underage.

Well.. it's not super common to have one or two 15-17 year old bargirls, but they're around in a minority of bars; more by circumstance than by intent of actually providing underage girls. (Circumstance: the girl being there, being cute and wanting a job). So.. wild stab.. 5-10%% of bars? Keep in mind we're including 17 year olds in this.

One thing though is that not all of those under 18 bargirls would routinely go with customers (tourists); having to supply ID at a hotel could be something they want to avoid. Or they borrow someone else's ID. Or they use trusted shorttime hotels only. Or upstairs accommodation in Soi 6 type places.

I live in Chiang Mai and it seems the same there, too. I met one yesterday who is probably 15-17, I guess I'll go find out now. (Not by asking directly of course, but it's easy to figure out at least if she's under 18, if not her actual age.). [Even with the notion that it's a bit more challenging in Chiang Mai sometimes because there are relatively a lot of hilltribe girls in bars, who tend to be tiny, also when aged 18-25.]

Also what I encounter really a lot is that ex bargirls show up for a party of some sort, now happily married, but then it becomes completely apparent that if they're 26 now, and worked there 10 years ago, that they must have been 16 at the time.

So.. it's actually quite common. A lot of expats are always quick to dismiss it, pointing fingers at imaginary Thai brothels where the REAL underage girls work.. well.. dream on.

Let me get this clear, are you saying that Thai bars/brothels where underage girls work are only imaginary myths? They definitely are not myths.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

How often does this really happen in the bar or other brothel setting? I never saw underage workers or at least they did not appear underage.

Well.. it's not super common to have one or two 15-17 year old bargirls, but they're around in a minority of bars; more by circumstance than by intent of actually providing underage girls. (Circumstance: the girl being there, being cute and wanting a job). So.. wild stab.. 5-10%% of bars? Keep in mind we're including 17 year olds in this.

One thing though is that not all of those under 18 bargirls would routinely go with customers (tourists); having to supply ID at a hotel could be something they want to avoid. Or they borrow someone else's ID. Or they use trusted shorttime hotels only. Or upstairs accommodation in Soi 6 type places.

I live in Chiang Mai and it seems the same there, too. I met one yesterday who is probably 15-17, I guess I'll go find out now. (Not by asking directly of course, but it's easy to figure out at least if she's under 18, if not her actual age.). [Even with the notion that it's a bit more challenging in Chiang Mai sometimes because there are relatively a lot of hilltribe girls in bars, who tend to be tiny, also when aged 18-25.]

Also what I encounter really a lot is that ex bargirls show up for a party of some sort, now happily married, but then it becomes completely apparent that if they're 26 now, and worked there 10 years ago, that they must have been 16 at the time.

So.. it's actually quite common. A lot of expats are always quick to dismiss it, pointing fingers at imaginary Thai brothels where the REAL underage girls work.. well.. dream on.

Let me get this clear, are you saying that Thai bars/brothels where underage girls work are only imaginary myths? They definitely are not myths.

No, I'm saying that those expats don't actually have first-hand knowledge of such places, but are all to happy to repeat common bar-stool wisdoms, in order to be able to dismiss anything being amiss in their own scene.

(Thank you for highlighting and allowing me to clarify; reading it back I agree it wasn't clear.)

15-17 year olds are probably more common in non-tourist places, in addition to there just being vastly more non-tourist places around the country, of course. However I'm also not under the impression that employing even younger girls is terribly common. So.. yes the average age in tourist bars is higher, but to completely dismiss any issue of underage girls there based on the existence of another group of bars they've never been to is a bit silly. It's not significantly different. (My impression from visiting some of those places, occasionally.)

And tourist bars are of course more likely to generate bad press internationally, which is a good reason to hold them to higher some ad-hoc standards.

Edited August 1, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[brewsterbudgen]

How often does this really happen in the bar or other brothel setting? I never saw underage workers or at least they did not appear underage.

Well.. it's not super common to have one or two 15-17 year old bargirls employed (or hanging around), but they're definitely there in a minority of bars, more by circumstance than by intent of actually providing underage girls. (Circumstance: the girl being there (sister/cousin etc of someone working there), being cute and wanting a job). So.. wild stab.. 5-10% of bars? Keep in mind we're including 17 year olds in this.

One thing though is that not all of those under 18 bargirls would routinely go with customers (tourists); having to supply ID at a hotel could be something they want to avoid. Or they borrow someone else's ID. Or they use trusted shorttime hotels only. Or upstairs accommodation in Soi 6 type places.

I live in Chiang Mai and it seems the same there, too. I met one yesterday who is probably 15-17, I guess I'll go find out now. (Not by asking directly of course, but it's easy to figure out at least if she's under 18, if not her actual age.). [Even with the notion that it's a bit more challenging in Chiang Mai sometimes because there are relatively a lot of hilltribe girls in bars, who tend to be tiny, also when aged 18-25.]

Another group may actually look older than they are, which would be young ladyboys. Being typically a bit taller they look older than your average 22 year old hill tribe midget, and covered in makeup they could actually be more seriously under-age than any other group.

Also what I encounter really a lot is that ex bargirls show up for a party of some sort, now happily married, but then it becomes completely apparent that if they're 26 now, and worked there 10 years ago, that they must have been 16 at the time.

So.. it's actually quite common. A lot of expats are always quick to dismiss it, pointing fingers at imaginary Thai brothels where the REAL underage girls work.. well.. dream on.

You're right. Most underage girls working in the gogo/bar scene aimed at foreigners will have invested in a good quality fake ID, if they are serious about their work. My point is that these well publicised raids tend to focus on the bars aimed at foreigners rather than the Thai places.

[manarak]

I have seen the occasional underage girl working, but I wouldn't have guessed it if at some point their age hadn't come up in conversation.

They looked like 20 year olds, even by Thai standards. Had my GF's cousin visit for a couple of days. She's 15, but looks 20 also.

The customers are clearly not to blame in this case, as they are normally not informed about the girl being underage (because she looks older).

[Wavefloater]

How often does this really happen in the bar or other brothel setting? I never saw underage workers or at least they did not appear underage.

Well.. it's not super common to have one or two 15-17 year old bargirls, but they're around in a minority of bars; more by circumstance than by intent of actually providing underage girls. (Circumstance: the girl being there, being cute and wanting a job). So.. wild stab.. 5-10%% of bars? Keep in mind we're including 17 year olds in this.

One thing though is that not all of those under 18 bargirls would routinely go with customers (tourists); having to supply ID at a hotel could be something they want to avoid. Or they borrow someone else's ID. Or they use trusted shorttime hotels only. Or upstairs accommodation in Soi 6 type places.

I live in Chiang Mai and it seems the same there, too. I met one yesterday who is probably 15-17, I guess I'll go find out now. (Not by asking directly of course, but it's easy to figure out at least if she's under 18, if not her actual age.). [Even with the notion that it's a bit more challenging in Chiang Mai sometimes because there are relatively a lot of hilltribe girls in bars, who tend to be tiny, also when aged 18-25.]

Also what I encounter really a lot is that ex bargirls show up for a party of some sort, now happily married, but then it becomes completely apparent that if they're 26 now, and worked there 10 years ago, that they must have been 16 at the time.

So.. it's actually quite common. A lot of expats are always quick to dismiss it, pointing fingers at imaginary Thai brothels where the REAL underage girls work.. well.. dream on.

Let me get this clear, are you saying that Thai bars/brothels where underage girls work are only imaginary myths? They definitely are not myths.

No, I'm saying that those expats don't actually have first-hand knowledge of such places, but are all to happy to repeat common bar-stool wisdoms, in order to be able to dismiss anything being amiss in their own scene.

(Thank you for highlighting and allowing me to clarify; reading it back I agree it wasn't clear.)

I think I understand you clearly now, so I would agree that anybody who accepts or justifies the services of underage sex workers by referring to the Thai bars/brothels (whether or not they have actually seen one) is wrong to do so. Na?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You're right. Most underage girls working in the gogo/bar scene aimed at foreigners will have invested in a good quality fake ID, if they are serious about their work. My point is that these well publicised raids tend to focus on the bars aimed at foreigners rather than the Thai places.

Right.. though we also tend to read about it more if it involves foreigners and the tourist scene.

If there was a police action in some small Karaoke shack in Phitsanuloke, would you read about it on Thaivisa?

Probably not.

The news foreigners get in Thailand, and especially in Pattaya, is highly skewed towards events relating to foreigners, or else it's just less 'newsy'. The same mechanism causes expats in Bangkok and other places to think that Pattaya is some sort of Wild West of crime.

But they don't see that local Thai newspapers are reporting the most horrific of crimes all day long in every village and town in Thailand, but the only thing you read about is some 65 year old Farang being found dead in his condo. And hey-presto: 20 pages of replies in the News forum. If it involves some Thai person then it's a big 'yawn', if it's reported in the Farang news media (incl. Thaivisa) at all. When was the last time you read 'Thai dude found dead in his house.' Believe me, 65 year old Thai dudes die all over the place, too. But it's not news, especially not to us.

So for the same reason, Farangs in Pattaya collectively suffer from the feeling that their scene is being singled out. Not so; they just don't get to read about (and don't care about) similar actions that police undertake in Upper Nakhon Nowhere. In fact you only need to take one look at the overall scene in Pattaya to realize it actually seems to have a 'preferred status'; it has the most outrageous shows, and parties on till dawn where almost everywhere else police come shut things down, and hassle bars with silly things ("no dancing!" and other silliness)

Edited August 1, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think I understand you clearly now, so I would agree that anybody who accepts or justifies the services of underage sex workers by referring to the Thai bars/brothels (whether or not they have actually seen one) is wrong to do so. Na?

Yes. Or even go so far as to deny that underage (16-17) girls in the tourist scene are somewhat common. And dismiss news reports like this one as a freak exception, or question why police even waste their time harassing the overall upstanding tourist nightlife.

I think tourist nightlife isn't always that upstanding, and at the same time most local Thai bars really aren't in the business of keeping 12 year olds chained to the bed. (This seems to be the sentiment driving the opinion that police shouldn't waste their time in tourist bars.)

Yes, local bars have 15-17 year olds too (not always in an overt prostitution oriented setting), in addition to the average age being lower. But when they get hit by police you don't read about it unless biblical atrocities were going on.

Meanwhile, who wants to bet that My Friend You will be open again before the weekend?

Edited August 1, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Wavefloater]

I think I understand you clearly now, so I would agree that anybody who accepts or justifies the services of underage sex workers by referring to the Thai bars/brothels (whether or not they have actually seen one) is wrong to do so. Na?

Yes. Or even go so far as to deny that underage (16-17) girls in the tourist scene are somewhat common. And dismiss news reports like this one as a freak exception, or question why police even waste their time harassing the overall upstanding tourist nightlife.

I think tourist nightlife isn't always that upstanding, and at the same time most local Thai bars really aren't in the business of keeping 12 year olds chained to the bed. (This seems to be the sentiment driving the opinion that police shouldn't waste their time in tourist bars.)

Yes, local bars have 15-17 year olds too (not always in an overt prostitution oriented setting), in addition to the average age being lower. But when they get hit by police you don't read about it unless biblical atrocities were going on.

Meanwhile, who wants to bet that My Friend You will be open again before the weekend?

I'm so pleased to see a thread that has consistently valid, intelligent, reasonable, and mature posts. What a rarity here at TVF, and you Winnie are a big part of that.

[brewsterbudgen]

I think I understand you clearly now, so I would agree that anybody who accepts or justifies the services of underage sex workers by referring to the Thai bars/brothels (whether or not they have actually seen one) is wrong to do so. Na?

Yes. Or even go so far as to deny that underage (16-17) girls in the tourist scene are somewhat common. And dismiss news reports like this one as a freak exception, or question why police even waste their time harassing the overall upstanding tourist nightlife.

I think tourist nightlife isn't always that upstanding, and at the same time most local Thai bars really aren't in the business of keeping 12 year olds chained to the bed. (This seems to be the sentiment driving the opinion that police shouldn't waste their time in tourist bars.)

Yes, local bars have 15-17 year olds too (not always in an overt prostitution oriented setting), in addition to the average age being lower. But when they get hit by police you don't read about it unless biblical atrocities were going on.

Meanwhile, who wants to bet that My Friend You will be open again before the weekend?

I'm sure you're right. And I bet in a few weeks, the girl in question will be back working in a bar to support her family!

Edited August 1, 2013 by brewsterbudgen

[Salapoo]

I remember a girl in a Patpong gogo proud of her new tattoo. A barcode with her birthday in Thai as the numbers under it, on the back of her neck.

Unfortunately it made her out to be just 17. She was certainly an experienced expert by the way she entertained the table of guys next to me who were far more free flowing with their money than me.

Poor child.