Chiang Mai-bound train derails in tunnel

[shiatsuman]

We were on the late train BKK to CM on Thursday night.

Bumped out of the air con sleeper because of a ticketing error we "enjoyed" the night in 2nd class fan.

Running a couple of hours late we got nicely gassed by thick grey exhaust smoke from the engine in the tunnel.

Well a derailment would have added to the spice.

But it is one of "the" railway journeys of the world chugging through virgin rain forest and steep valleys.

They are doing a lot of track work so problems will continue until its finished.

15 hours to CM so the train speeds are realistic considering the track, accidents are not too serious and quickly sorted out.

but next time she who gets car sick and likes the train has decided we take the bus.

[hellodolly]

I love train travel. I have taken the Bangkok <-> Chiang Mai sleeper several times and always enjoyed it, always slept like a baby. Now however, after all these derailments, I think I'd be too tense to sleep, and probably won't be taking the train any more. It's a shame that the Thai rail system is so poorly maintained.

I also have taken the trip, enjoyed it and did it for the experience, just to say I have actually done it. Not sure if I will do it again in the near future with derailments in quick succession.

I have been considering doing it for the experience also. But now with two derailments in two weeks and I believe a few months ago a bridge washed out I am going to hold off on that.

I have no idea what people are talking about with High speed trains to Chiang Mai. I know that the government if they get that 2.2 trillion baht loan have plans to build one a little of the way but no where near Chiang Mai. I think it just goes a short way North of Bangkok.

But that is a pretty big if first the budget has to pass the house and then they have to find some one to loan them the money. The only reasonable thing I heard about High Speed Train in Thailand was the Chinese plan to go all the way from Singapore to the Chinese capital. It left open the possability of a spur line to Chiang Rai.

[metisdead]

A profane flame post has been removed as well as a reply.

[MaxYakov]

I think what saves people with these Thai trains is simply the fact that these old trains on their old tracks do not gain enough speed to be truly deadly in the derailments. However, when they finally do get around to upgrading and going much faster, trains here might become nearly as dangerous as the roads..

Yeah, sure. They have to get up to 199 km/h to be 'truly deadly'.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/02/uk-spain-train-idUKBRE97114J20130802

Are you employed by the NTSB or some such?

Edited August 4, 2013 by MaxYakov

[jamhar]

Being #6 in the world for road accidents is not enough. Thailand clearly also wants to be on the World's Most Dangerous Trains list.

Hey PMD

Where did you get that data?

I just looked at wiki for traffic related death rates for the world and Thailand ranks in the middle

no way near the top of the list. This is true for traffic related deaths per population, or per vehicles.

Not great, but not too horrible either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Edit

All i see that data now.

What we have here is a conflict of data!

I'll take a closer look. and update later.

Edited August 4, 2013 by jamhar

[MaxYakov]

Will this ever stop happening???

Will it ever stop happening? It has been going on in Thailand for at least the last 30 years since I can recall. Similarly the number of Thai drivers putting their cars and lorries into the ditch either side of a straight road never seems to diminish either.

That's because median ditches are a 'developing' (aka poor) country's substitute for guardrails. How many cars and lorries did you see transit the ditches and go head-on into oncoming traffic? But now that I think about it, there was a modern, high-speed freeway in the US that had aesthetic shrubbery as the median divider that had a tendency to launch errant vehicles into the air and then into the opposite-bound lanes.

Edited August 4, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. Please stay on topic.

[anotheruser]

I am trying to figure out who uses the rail network.

People on 300 bht a day very rare use the rail, and most in rural areas have Near NEVER been on a train. outside of BKK apart from major city links rail is of no use as it stands.

Vast amount of rural areas are not served. It is town and inter city buses that do the business.

If you look at Udon-BKK a bus every half hour or more if you change at some places more options.

So Nong Khai to BKK how many trains in a day ???? and not normally local people travel--they do not have the time OR money anyway.

Uni students MAY use the train --but go to your local city bus stations your sure to find out.

That is a good question. A lot of the folks I see camped out at Hua Lamphong every time I go there use burlap sacks for luggage. (okay, not burlap any more, but that woven poly that's taken burlap's place)

The ones I envision are those who have left the farm or village to make a living in BKK, going home to be with the family on the holidays. Scroogy as I am, I'd hate to see them priced out of the train ride home to see the family once or twice a year. I think their chances of surviving the visit are better on a dodgy train than most of the buses.

On price, I missed out a little only Udon Thani-Morchit--vip Shan Tour is about 575 bht recline seat- video on seat back similar to plane. 8 hours.

But on the train equiv seat etc--not have -- but the price for 11 hour for vip ??? maybe that is why the bus wins.

In the UK. I booked later this year return Kings cross-Doncaster RETURN--25 pound and 1 hour 40 mins time. BUS same price 5 hours. so in U.K. train wins.

The train is preferable to me for the fact you can drink, smoke and when it is bed time lie down completely flat. When you have a laptop or tablet it makes the lack of entertainment consoles completely irrelevant.

[theblether]

Something of a dilemma here.

I look at what they charge for ticket prices and I have a hard time figuring out how they can afford to maintain the tracks and equipment.

If they jack up the ticket prices, it's a hardship on the many folks scraping by on 300 baht a day, who depend on the trains to get around. Even worse, it would push them onto the buses, and they're scarier than a worn out train track.

If they leave the ticket prices for Thais the same and jack up the prices for tourists, the "double pricing" rants begin.

If we want Developed World safety standards, we need to be prepared to pay Developed World prices. Or we can enjoy the cheap transport and take the 0.00001% chance of getting hurt on any given trip. (I may have left out a few zeroes) The locals seem to have voted with their feet for the cheap transport.

I am trying to figure out who uses the rail network.

People on 300 bht a day very rare use the rail, and most in rural areas have Near NEVER been on a train. outside of BKK apart from major city links rail is of no use as it stands.

Vast amount of rural areas are not served. It is town and inter city buses that do the business.

If you look at Udon-BKK a bus every half hour or more if you change at some places more options.

So Nong Khai to BKK how many trains in a day ???? and not normally local people travel--they do not have the time OR money anyway.

Uni students MAY use the train --but go to your local city bus stations your sure to find out.

It's chicken and egg, people don't use the trains as they are notoriously slow and unreliable.

[anotheruser]

Does anybody know if the train to Ubon is still running?

[ginjag]

I am trying to figure out who uses the rail network.

People on 300 bht a day very rare use the rail, and most in rural areas have Near NEVER been on a train. outside of BKK apart from major city links rail is of no use as it stands.

Vast amount of rural areas are not served. It is town and inter city buses that do the business.

If you look at Udon-BKK a bus every half hour or more if you change at some places more options.

So Nong Khai to BKK how many trains in a day ???? and not normally local people travel--they do not have the time OR money anyway.

Uni students MAY use the train --but go to your local city bus stations your sure to find out.

That is a good question. A lot of the folks I see camped out at Hua Lamphong every time I go there use burlap sacks for luggage. (okay, not burlap any more, but that woven poly that's taken burlap's place)

The ones I envision are those who have left the farm or village to make a living in BKK, going home to be with the family on the holidays. Scroogy as I am, I'd hate to see them priced out of the train ride home to see the family once or twice a year. I think their chances of surviving the visit are better on a dodgy train than most of the buses.

On price, I missed out a little only Udon Thani-Morchit--vip Shan Tour is about 575 bht recline seat- video on seat back similar to plane. 8 hours.

But on the train equiv seat etc--not have -- but the price for 11 hour for vip ??? maybe that is why the bus wins.

In the UK. I booked later this year return Kings cross-Doncaster RETURN--25 pound and 1 hour 40 mins time. BUS same price 5 hours. so in U.K. train wins.

The train is preferable to me for the fact you can drink, smoke and when it is bed time lie down completely flat. When you have a laptop or tablet it makes the lack of entertainment consoles completely irrelevant.

I love any kind of travel, BUT with offers ranging between 5 bht and 1,500 bht fly to BKK in 50 minutes.

Above was a comparison re bus and train, but as a visitor here and age--get there and have that extra time to enjoy. who's to 15 pound sterling when it comes to quickness against an endurance test.

[anotheruser]

I hate flying so find the train to be less stressful. To each their own. I have to take the train on Wednesday night so I am still wondering if the train to Ubon is running?

[connda]

Giving the spate of train wreaks, bus accidents, and attacks on foreigners (fatal and otherwise) I believe that the Ministry of Tourist should promote a new ad campaign:

*** Dangerous Thailand ***

See if you can survive your stay!

[tomyummer]

They'd better survey the tunnel damage, not just the tracks and trains. I can't imagine a..........better not say it.

[Harry2]

I enjoy the BKK-CM train journey, been doing it couple times a year for 28 years.

The part that worries me vis poor maintenance/crashes is that long fragile single track bridge just before Doi Khun Tan.

If that thing collapses it won't be a couple dozen injured but a couple of hundred dead.

[schondie]

Is there going to be a call for the privatisation of SRT to stop these things happening? I'm pretty sure these incidents will stop once SRT is in private hands and rail fares have increased tenfold.

[MaxYakov]

Giving the spate of train wreaks, bus accidents, and attacks on foreigners (fatal and otherwise) I believe that the Ministry of Tourist should promote a new ad campaign:

*** Dangerous Thailand ***

See if you can survive your stay!

LoS - Land of Smashups

[Torrens54]

I dislike flying and have always taken the train if feasible. These derailments are getting to be a little too common in Thailand. It's going to be back to flying, I guess.

Driving is too dangerous, buses are pretty dangerous and now trains are dangerous as well.

Flying is the safest way to travel; here or anywhere for that matter.

Flying is so much safer, mainly because all the aircraft maintenance is done in other countries.

as long as you don't fly Qantas.

What, that Arab Airline, QUAINTARSE????

[Torrens54]

Well, just can't wait till we get the much mooted High Speed Rail system between BKK and CNX.

Might be a bit closer if they want to buy a slightly bruised Prime Mover for it from Spain. Some of the passenger cars though could be a bit too busted. And don't forget, there is a Driver over in Spain who's out on bail but suspended from driving for a few months, he could be a good catch to instruct Thai Train Drivers on the finer points of railroading.

[deecee10]

Ultimately it is another example of a country desperate to grab more and more of the tourist dollar without regard to a matching improvement in infrastructure, required to cater for the increases in tourist numbers.

Ideally tourists should buy tickets but not travel.

[alant]

Being #6 in the world for road accidents is not enough. Thailand clearly also wants to be on the World's Most Dangerous Trains list.

A list or is it aiming to be the HUB of Most Dangerous Trains

[MaxYakov]

Ultimately it is another example of a country desperate to grab more and more of the tourist dollar without regard to a matching improvement in infrastructure, required to cater for the increases in tourist numbers.

Ideally tourists should buy tickets but not travel.

Better yet, stay home and wire the money to Thailand (directly into the various officials' and monks' personal accounts, of course).

Edited August 5, 2013 by MaxYakov

[kingofseals]

took the train to Hua Hin one year.... very nice... but we stayed in the restaurant car and drank beer all the way... looks like the tracks up north need to be checked out pretty quick.... a few years ago an Oz co. had the contract to check all the track out in the south with a hi tech train car unit... not sure but I think they didn't do the north...maybe some SRT guys need to spend some money on the track and cars now? 5 5 5

[PaullyW]

I think what saves people with these Thai trains is simply the fact that these old trains on their old tracks do not gain enough speed to be truly deadly in the derailments. However, when they finally do get around to upgrading and going much faster, trains here might become nearly as dangerous as the roads..

Yeah, sure. They have to get up to 199 km/h to be 'truly deadly'.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/02/uk-spain-train-idUKBRE97114J20130802

Are you employed by the NTSB or some such?

Sorry mate. Perhaps I should have just simply wrote, "the faster they go, the more deadly they are likely to be in accidents". Does that work for you?

[Asiantravel]

I dislike flying and have always taken the train if feasible. These derailments are getting to be a little too common in Thailand. It's going to be back to flying, I guess.

Driving is too dangerous, buses are pretty dangerous and now trains are dangerous as well.

Flying is the safest way to travel; here or anywhere for that matter.

Flying is so much safer, mainly because all the aircraft maintenance is done in other countries.

as long as you don't fly Qantas.

And isn't that a sad reflection of the times we live in, because 10 to 15 years ago, Qantas was unquestionably the number one airline in the world for safety standards.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Asiantravel

[lomatopo]

took the train to Hua Hin one year.... very nice... but we stayed in the restaurant car and drank beer all the way... looks like the tracks up north need to be checked out pretty quick.... a few years ago an Oz co. had the contract to check all the track out in the south with a hi tech train car unit... not sure but I think they didn't do the north...maybe some SRT guys need to spend some money on the track and cars now? 5 5 5

100 Passengers Injured In Train Derailment In Hua Hin

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/303936-100-passengers-injured-in-train-derailment-in-hua-hin/

Edited August 5, 2013 by lomatopo

[nong38]

Thailand does not need a high speed train network,

It needs a good well constructed rail suitible for freight traffic track. It would be better if double tracked but single is acceptible if sufficient passing options are provided. It would be best if this was standard guage to enable high freight loadings and international tranport but this option is more expensive. If a nuclear power station is built this could support a fully electrified unit. (I bet that will get a few comments.)

Get your Nuclear P/S and the rail could transport the Toxic waste to Thailands ( SAFE DUMPS )

SAFE DUMPS do you mean Pattaya or Isaan? I am not sure but always pleased to increase my edukayshun and nolidge.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Isn't this 2 derailments on the same line in 2 weeks?

Guess so. Reassuring isn't it.

Actually, I think it's at least three on the Chiang Mai-BKK route lately... Supposedly, there was a prior one before the really bad one a couple weeks back where many were injured.

[cutieloudmouth]

you missed me!

took the night train Chiang Mai-BKK the other night and guess what, it didn't derail!!!

Edited August 15, 2013 by cutieloudmouth

[moe666]

you missed me!

took the night train Chiang Mai-BKK the other night and guess what, it didn't derail!!!

Maybe you are lucky but I am sure there are more safe arrivals then derails