'Thaksin's return home is long overdue'

[Robby nz]

Could it be that he is already back?

There are unconfirmed reports (rumors) of a war room at a luxury resort on Koh Chang with a VIP in charge.

It has also been said that an immigration police officer in Trat province and an officer at the Department of Civil Aviation reported that a private plane carrying a VIP had landed at Trat airport and then that person was taken by a speed boat to Koh Chang amid tight security.

No it isn't me that's saying that, it was reported by another media source which shall remain nameless.

But anyway it is true that he is long overdue to return.

He should have returned directly after the Olympics as was the conditions of his bail

[britinthai]

From what I read of posters on this forum, your post will be rebutted from posters who have no actual evidence; they will simply quote he was convicted in a court of law. However the same posters repeatedly complain that Thailand is corrupt and just recently they advocate that the military is running the country - but of course the courts that had the motive to convict Thaksin is not connect to the military or the yellow elite that are calling the shots; this makes me laugh. Those who quote you are a supporter of corruption are just plain daft; I believe you are simply stating that it is what the people want.

My only view is that the Thai people voted on the understand of a chance that their define leader will return; they should get what they voted for. However the current elite will do what ever possible to keep him out.

Please note this is a response to a Thaksin supporter (Toscano) but was sent from my Iphone but it did not include the poster

Edited August 4, 2013 by britinthai

[winstonc]

Sorry Chaps , I am a supporter of Thaksin . I would like to see his safe return to legitimately head a government , rather than doing it by proxy as now .

It is all very well to call hin a convicted criminal , because surperlative efforts were exercised to get rid of him at any price .

What do most of us know of the truth ? I have no doubt that there are dozens of people in high places whose " Overlooked " crimes could end in conviction .

In a country when any means fit the end in all stratas of society , it is only the highest profile that gets picked on , incriminated and convicted .

I agree; I realy can't see why so many people hate him on this forum.

Sure he did some iffy thing's, but that's the Thai way & if you live here it's something you have to accept (ever been stopped by the police?).

He tried to change things for the poor, that's why they love him. He fought against the drug trade, that's why the high & mighty hate him. He was shafted (whilst abroad) by the establishment for upsetting the apple cart.

for stealing all the apples more like...priceless,

[wolf5370]

From what I read of posters on this forum, your post will be rebutted from posters who have no actual evidence; they will simply quote he was convicted in a court of law. However the same posters repeatedly complain that Thailand is corrupt and just recently they advocate that the military is running the country - but of course the courts that had the motive to convict Thaksin is not connect to the military or the yellow elite that are calling the shots; this makes me laugh. Those who quote you are a supporter of corruption are just plain daft; I believe you are simply stating that it is what the people want.

My only view is that the Thai people voted on the understand of a chance that their define leader will return; they should get what they voted for. However the current elite will do what ever possible to keep him out.

Please note this is a response to a Thaksin supporter (Toscano) but was sent from my Iphone but it did not include the poster

While I can't disagree with your first paragraph - wrt: we can only go on what we read (and saw, or saw the effects of, for those of us here during that period of course).

Your view that (reworded to make sense) Thai people voted on the understanding that attempts would be made to return the self-exiled ex-PM, is your view and the view of the Red elite and government leaders, but my view is they voted because they were promised fixed prices for rice, tablets for their children, much higher minimum wage and because their moo bahn poo yai told them to and they knew how stupid it would be to not follow such "advise" - and were convinced that a failed 30 baht health scheme is better than a working free one apparently.

I am always a little in wonder at the vitriol that Thaksin causes in the farang community (not just here but in bars across the land too). I wonder what it is really all about. Do they really care about a 1,000 suspected drug traffickers being gunned down; some Muslim rioters dying in custody in a van in the heat; that he managed to double his fortune while in office; that he sold Shin Corp tax free; that he sold friends and family compulsory purchased government land for a song; that he promoted his family members way above their station to leadership and powerbase positions? Really?

Nah, I think not - interesting, sure, but such vocal hate? Did it make any real difference to any of us or our Thai families or Thai friends and their families? Are we so much happier now than we were in 2006? Will it make one iota of difference to us if he does come back and is PM for the next 20 years until he is too old to continue? So is this not as much a mob mentality - media brainwashing - as the Red propaganda machine is? Is it helping our cause as foreigners in a strange land we desperately want to call home (and mean it). So what's it all about Willis?

//Edit: Why do I always spot the spelling mistakes AFTER hitting submit?

Edited August 4, 2013 by wolf5370

[tomyummer]

"I guarantee this with my life. If Yaowapa took even one single baht, you can come and behead me."

Wow. The guy is a hydra?

Just check her records with all the Suvarnabhumi taxi and transportation contacts.

Is he willing to give head for his other in-laws and relatives? I mean, give a head?

[ratcatcher]

Many of us commenting on the alledged questionable behaviours and corruptions of the Redshirts and Royalists yet have no access to definitive evidence of immoral behavior of corruption of Thai politians.

Accordingly we are in no position to make judgemental statements about the supposed criminality of any Poliical leader or MP.

What we do percieve is that Thai on Thai often conspire in the pursuit of their victims with little or no justification or knowledge of the vitims competance or integrity.

Those of us that Defame or Slander officers and leaders of Thai Governments, civil institutions and businesses whilst being guests in their beautiful county and without a shred of evidence are trying to engage the Thai at their own game. We can never play by their rules and therefor can never truly understand their ways.

As Rudyard Kippling said; "Beware of the Asian Brown" or might have added; 'Take them on and you may well loose'

I'm not sure where you found that "quote" by Kipling, but this one might be more appropriate.

"Asia is not going to be civilized after the methods of the West. There is too much Asia and she is too old."

Rudyard Kipling

[simple1]

From what I read of posters on this forum, your post will be rebutted from posters who have no actual evidence; they will simply quote he was convicted in a court of law. However the same posters repeatedly complain that Thailand is corrupt and just recently they advocate that the military is running the country - but of course the courts that had the motive to convict Thaksin is not connect to the military or the yellow elite that are calling the shots; this makes me laugh. Those who quote you are a supporter of corruption are just plain daft; I believe you are simply stating that it is what the people want.

My only view is that the Thai people voted on the understand of a chance that their define leader will return; they should get what they voted for. However the current elite will do what ever possible to keep him out.

Please note this is a response to a Thaksin supporter (Toscano) but was sent from my Iphone but it did not include the poster

While I can't disagree with your first paragraph - wrt: we can only go on what we read (and saw, or saw the effects of, for those of us here during that period of course).

Your view that (reworded to make sense) Thai people voted on the understanding that attempts would be made to return the self-exiled ex-PM, is your view and the view of the Red elite and government leaders, but my view is they voted because they were promised fixed prices for rice, tablets for their children, much higher minimum wage and because their moo bahn poo yai told them to and they knew how stupid it would be to not follow such "advise" - and were convinced that a failed 30 baht health scheme is better than a working free one apparently.

I am always a little in wonder at the vitriol that Thaksin causes in the farang community (not just here but in bars across the land too). I wonder what it is really all about. Do they really care about a 1,000 suspected drug traffickers being gunned down; some Muslim rioters dying in custody in a van in the heat; that he managed to double his fortune while in office; that he sold Shin Corp tax free; that he sold friends and family compulsory purchased government land for a song; that he promoted his family members way above their station to leadership and powerbase positions? Really?

Nah, I think not - interesting, sure, but such vocal hate? Did it make any real difference to any of us or our Thai families or Thai friends and their families? Are we so much happier now than we were in 2006? Will it make one iota of difference to us if he does come back and is PM for the next 20 years until he is too old to continue? So is this not as much a mob mentality - media brainwashing - as the Red propaganda machine is? Is it helping our cause as foreigners in a strange land we desperately want to call home (and mean it). So what's it all about Willis?

//Edit: Why do I always spot the spelling mistakes AFTER hitting submit?

I have not previously commented about Thaksin; this is the first time. The negative political, law enforcement, human rights abuse issues and business ethics that flourished unfettered whilst he was PM is a major issue. If he had been a true leader and had steered Thailand in a more positive direction, who knows what benefits the Thai people would enjoy today and what the future would look like.

The endless time wasting and lost opportunity for the Thai people is appalling & contributed to by continuous political distractions. There are a number of indicators that Thailand is in a downward competitive trajectory on the economic & business front that directly impacts the future of the Thai people. Look up a recent presentation by the Thai Minister of Transport reported in the BKK Post.

There are many on TV who live in Thailand and have extended families as I do. I know that posting comments on TV will not have any influence on outcomes, but it is a relief outlet to share concerns. Getting back to your post do you accept that a possible future PM who has no respect for the law of the land and implements policies solely for his self-aggrandisement & power will provide a suitable environment for the long term, safe & stable future of your family here in Thailand? If you are able to insulate yourself and family, well done, but for the majority I don’t think so.

The major question is who in Thailand will lead Thailand in a positive direction; it’s not Thaksin. From reading the media reports sadly no other person seems to have been identified; do you have any viable suggestions?

Edited August 4, 2013 by simple1

[Toscano]

Rametindallas

No , others do not fall short . It is said that there was more corruption during the Dems brief spell in government than in the Thaksin era .

The Coup was the biggest mistake the military could have made !!! Thaksin was and still is the hero of impoverished farmers in the north and northeast .

Thaksin's conviction was that as his wife's husband he had to sign a document , thus permitting her to buy a parcel of land that had originally failed to sell and she bought by sealed tender making the highest offer .

The crime was that he was PM and his signing the document constituted a conflict of interest .

The coup so fired up the people who support Thaksin , they being the majority of voters in Thailand ; that there is not likely to be any other than a Thaksin government for the foreseeable future .

As to those who say I support corruption ; if you don't like corruption , go back to your home countries . In Thailand corruption begins in the simplest home and stretches through every strata of society , getting bigger as it goes . You cannot live in Thailand and pretend everyone is Whiter than White and just few are corrupt , it is the way of life here , as it is in countries like Italy and now even the USA . While the Dems were in power they tried to pass a law making it illegal for farmers to make their own pesticide out of herbs and spices that people eat every day . It is said that someone close to government had big investments in "Monsanto", the government was trying to clear the way for Monsanto products to be exclusively marketed in Thailand . I'm told that MPs all take a 10% cut from the profits of major industries . The details at home as to the personal shortcomings are not important if the country has a High Profile abroad and has a flourishing economy , which Thailand did under Thaksin . Before everyone call Thaksin a convicted common criminal , they need to be conversant with the facts ; some commenters have very sketchy knowledge .

[tingtongfarang]

From what I read of posters on this forum, your post will be rebutted from posters who have no actual evidence; they will simply quote he was convicted in a court of law. However the same posters repeatedly complain that Thailand is corrupt and just recently they advocate that the military is running the country - but of course the courts that had the motive to convict Thaksin is not connect to the military or the yellow elite that are calling the shots; this makes me laugh. Those who quote you are a supporter of corruption are just plain daft; I believe you are simply stating that it is what the people want.

My only view is that the Thai people voted on the understand of a chance that their define leader will return; they should get what they voted for. However the current elite will do what ever possible to keep him out.

Please note this is a response to a Thaksin supporter (Toscano) but was sent from my Iphone but it did not include the poster

While I can't disagree with your first paragraph - wrt: we can only go on what we read (and saw, or saw the effects of, for those of us here during that period of course).

Your view that (reworded to make sense) Thai people voted on the understanding that attempts would be made to return the self-exiled ex-PM, is your view and the view of the Red elite and government leaders, but my view is they voted because they were promised fixed prices for rice, tablets for their children, much higher minimum wage and because their moo bahn poo yai told them to and they knew how stupid it would be to not follow such "advise" - and were convinced that a failed 30 baht health scheme is better than a working free one apparently.

I am always a little in wonder at the vitriol that Thaksin causes in the farang community (not just here but in bars across the land too). I wonder what it is really all about. Do they really care about a 1,000 suspected drug traffickers being gunned down; some Muslim rioters dying in custody in a van in the heat; that he managed to double his fortune while in office; that he sold Shin Corp tax free; that he sold friends and family compulsory purchased government land for a song; that he promoted his family members way above their station to leadership and powerbase positions? Really?

Nah, I think not - interesting, sure, but such vocal hate? Did it make any real difference to any of us or our Thai families or Thai friends and their families? Are we so much happier now than we were in 2006? Will it make one iota of difference to us if he does come back and is PM for the next 20 years until he is too old to continue? So is this not as much a mob mentality - media brainwashing - as the Red propaganda machine is? Is it helping our cause as foreigners in a strange land we desperately want to call home (and mean it). So what's it all about Willis?

//Edit: Why do I always spot the spelling mistakes AFTER hitting submit?

I have not previously commented about Thaksin; this is the first time. The negative political, law enforcement, human rights abuse issues and business ethics that flourished unfettered whilst he was PM is a major issue. If he had been a true leader and had steered Thailand in a more positive direction, who knows what benefits the Thai people would enjoy today and what the future would look like.

The endless time wasting and lost opportunity for the Thai people is appalling & contributed to by continuous political distractions. There are a number of indicators that Thailand is in a downward competitive trajectory on the economic & business front that directly impacts the future of the Thai people. Look up a recent presentation by the Thai Minister of Transport reported in the BKK Post.

There are many on TV who live in Thailand and have extended families as I do. I know that posting comments on TV will not have any influence on outcomes, but it is a relief outlet to share concerns. Getting back to your post do you accept that a possible future PM who has no respect for the law of the land and implements policies solely for his self-aggrandisement & power will provide a suitable environment for the long term, safe & stable future of your family here in Thailand? If you are able to insulate yourself and family, well done, but for the majority I don’t think so.

The major question is who in Thailand will lead Thailand in a positive direction; it’s not Thaksin. From reading the media reports sadly no other person seems to have been identified; do you have any viable suggestions?

Problem is for the thai population is whoever they vote for they get criminals but they believe the populist policies and infact dont know better or have the ability to see past that, at the moment they just have the worst of the bad in power.

Edited to say....maybe a few more informed posters could point the finger at who could lead thailand in a positive way? i fail to see any good guys,

Abhisit as far as i am concerned is an unknown....no real dirt on him but he did,nt do much, although i accept it must have been difficult with some of his enemys sitting at the table.

Edited August 4, 2013 by tingtongfarang

[wolf5370]

From what I read of posters on this forum, your post will be rebutted from posters who have no actual evidence; they will simply quote he was convicted in a court of law. However the same posters repeatedly complain that Thailand is corrupt and just recently they advocate that the military is running the country - but of course the courts that had the motive to convict Thaksin is not connect to the military or the yellow elite that are calling the shots; this makes me laugh. Those who quote you are a supporter of corruption are just plain daft; I believe you are simply stating that it is what the people want.

My only view is that the Thai people voted on the understand of a chance that their define leader will return; they should get what they voted for. However the current elite will do what ever possible to keep him out.

Please note this is a response to a Thaksin supporter (Toscano) but was sent from my Iphone but it did not include the poster

While I can't disagree with your first paragraph - wrt: we can only go on what we read (and saw, or saw the effects of, for those of us here during that period of course).

Your view that (reworded to make sense) Thai people voted on the understanding that attempts would be made to return the self-exiled ex-PM, is your view and the view of the Red elite and government leaders, but my view is they voted because they were promised fixed prices for rice, tablets for their children, much higher minimum wage and because their moo bahn poo yai told them to and they knew how stupid it would be to not follow such "advise" - and were convinced that a failed 30 baht health scheme is better than a working free one apparently.

I am always a little in wonder at the vitriol that Thaksin causes in the farang community (not just here but in bars across the land too). I wonder what it is really all about. Do they really care about a 1,000 suspected drug traffickers being gunned down; some Muslim rioters dying in custody in a van in the heat; that he managed to double his fortune while in office; that he sold Shin Corp tax free; that he sold friends and family compulsory purchased government land for a song; that he promoted his family members way above their station to leadership and powerbase positions? Really?

Nah, I think not - interesting, sure, but such vocal hate? Did it make any real difference to any of us or our Thai families or Thai friends and their families? Are we so much happier now than we were in 2006? Will it make one iota of difference to us if he does come back and is PM for the next 20 years until he is too old to continue? So is this not as much a mob mentality - media brainwashing - as the Red propaganda machine is? Is it helping our cause as foreigners in a strange land we desperately want to call home (and mean it). So what's it all about Willis?

//Edit: Why do I always spot the spelling mistakes AFTER hitting submit?

I have not previously commented about Thaksin; this is the first time. The negative political, law enforcement, human rights abuse issues and business ethics that flourished unfettered whilst he was PM is a major issue. If he had been a true leader and had steered Thailand in a more positive direction, who knows what benefits the Thai people would enjoy today and what the future would look like.

The endless time wasting and lost opportunity for the Thai people is appalling & contributed to by continuous political distractions. There are a number of indicators that Thailand is in a downward competitive trajectory on the economic & business front that directly impacts the future of the Thai people. Look up a recent presentation by the Thai Minister of Transport reported in the BKK Post.

There are many on TV who live in Thailand and have extended families as I do. I know that posting comments on TV will not have any influence on outcomes, but it is a relief outlet to share concerns. Getting back to your post do you accept that a possible future PM who has no respect for the law of the land and implements policies solely for his self-aggrandisement & power will provide a suitable environment for the long term, safe & stable future of your family here in Thailand? If you are able to insulate yourself and family, well done, but for the majority I don’t think so.

The major question is who in Thailand will lead Thailand in a positive direction; it’s not Thaksin. From reading the media reports sadly no other person seems to have been identified; do you have any viable suggestions?

I think perhaps you miss interpreted my post completely. I was commenting on the Vitriol against this one specific ex-PM. In that it seems completely out of kilter given that he has made pretty much no impact on any of our, or our family's, lives. While what you say may be true - it is not a reason to single Thaksin out - the same can be said for every MP going back to Mom Rajawongse Seni Pramoj (interestingly in his second term he was forced out of office due to a returning exile - former PM Thanom Kittikachorn's return from exile (1973 uprising) - and in his last term he was kicked out in a coup!).

Nothing really has changed - politicians are corrupt, make lots of money in office, try to accumulate power in various ways and are nepotistic in placing people in positions of power. Most people here probably could list fewer than a handful of Thai PMs (and none before Thaksin). I can understand aggression from people that were affected by the corruption directly (like William Monson for example!), but there is more hatred thrown around here at the mention of his name than our own political leaders misgiving (or other bad guys like Idi Armin, Pol Pot or Mugabe).

"Getting back to your post do you accept that a possible future PM who has no respect for the law of the land and implements policies solely for his self-aggrandisement & power will [Ed: NOT] provide a suitable environment for the long term, safe & stable future of your family here in Thailand?"

I added the "NOT", I suspect you meant to have that there. Apart from the fact that it matters not a jot what I accept, of course I accept it. It has diddly to do with what I said however. The problem is that this is always the case - power corrupts, and here it is given not merely a free reign to do so, but is actively encouraged by those eager to catch the droppings. Would I like a perfect government here - sure, I guess, I'd like one back home too! - there is no such thing of course. It is more stable here than people realise - in a country that has been at war on and off with its neighbours for millennia, always fairly wealthy for the area thanks to its place in the Indo-China trade route; then safe haven between European empires for trade, talks, and separating out the rest of Asia; the as another safe haven between the communist far east / north east and ex-British west (of Thailand - Burma/India). There have always been worries, but there are inbuilt safety valves here - things only get so bad before they change - that is, when it starts to affect those other powerful rich families. If he came back tomorrow, was forgiven, and was voted in again next time around, what difference would it make to us? Bearing in mind he is currently running the country anyway - just from a beach in Dubai.

As to viable potential leaders - it is an easy question to answer - as it stands there can not be. Even if there was, the political landscape here would make it unlikely s/he would get elected and even if so, with enough power to make any changes (coalition h3ll). The problem is and will be for the foreseeable future, that the wealthy care too much about the status quo to allow any change - and the poor are more concerned with feeding their families today than whether the tourism is up by 4% next quarter. It takes middle classes to change a country - always has - otherwise there is at most uprisings and shuffling of elites at the top - and Thailand is agricultural, which limits the middle classes in favour of "with"s and "without"s. Middle classes are coming, but they are too small a number (at leasrt outside of Bangkok) - and thus they can do little than choose their favourite elite to back and try to ingratiate themselves into the fold.

[whybother]

Rametindallas

No , others do not fall short . It is said that there was more corruption during the Dems brief spell in government than in the Thaksin era .

The Coup was the biggest mistake the military could have made !!! Thaksin was and still is the hero of impoverished farmers in the north and northeast .

Thaksin's conviction was that as his wife's husband he had to sign a document , thus permitting her to buy a parcel of land that had originally failed to sell and she bought by sealed tender making the highest offer .

The crime was that he was PM and his signing the document constituted a conflict of interest .

The coup so fired up the people who support Thaksin , they being the majority of voters in Thailand ; that there is not likely to be any other than a Thaksin government for the foreseeable future .

As to those who say I support corruption ; if you don't like corruption , go back to your home countries . In Thailand corruption begins in the simplest home and stretches through every strata of society , getting bigger as it goes . You cannot live in Thailand and pretend everyone is Whiter than White and just few are corrupt , it is the way of life here , as it is in countries like Italy and now even the USA . While the Dems were in power they tried to pass a law making it illegal for farmers to make their own pesticide out of herbs and spices that people eat every day . It is said that someone close to government had big investments in "Monsanto", the government was trying to clear the way for Monsanto products to be exclusively marketed in Thailand . I'm told that MPs all take a 10% cut from the profits of major industries . The details at home as to the personal shortcomings are not important if the country has a High Profile abroad and has a flourishing economy , which Thailand did under Thaksin . Before everyone call Thaksin a convicted common criminal , they need to be conversant with the facts ; some commenters have very sketchy knowledge .

Pathetic.

Just because corruption exists is no reason to support it.

[Toscano]

Chermonman

Yes I was in Thailand when Thaksin was PM . What in your mind suggests he was turning Thailand into a Fascist state ?

You are either quoting from hearsay or totally ill informed . I live in a poor Isaan village full of farmers and farm workers .

They only had to hear there was an election coming and the cry was vote Thaksins .

Thaksin was the first politician who showed any care for the poor country people ; he comes from ChangMai another region of poor farmers .

The Bangkok elite like to keep the poor in rural areas so poor that they are happy to go south and work in factories for a pittance , enabling the rich to get richer .

Thaksin has offended those in high places by trying to open up the country to the benefit of all .

For all your giving the impression that you have been in Thailand a long time , I don't find you precisely well informed .

Edited August 4, 2013 by metisdead
Bold font removed. If you continue to post using bold fonts, your posts will simply disappear.

[whybother]

Chermonman

Yes I was in Thailand when Thaksin was PM . What in your mind suggests he was turning Thailand into a Fascist state ?

You are either quoting from hearsay or totally ill informed . I live in a poor Isaan village full of farmers and farm workers .

They only had to hear there was an election coming and the cry was vote Thaksins .

Thaksin was the first politician who showed any care for the poor country people ; he comes from ChangMai another region of poor farmers .

The Bangkok elite like to keep the poor in rural areas so poor that they are happy to go south and work in factories for a pittance , enabling the rich to get richer .

Thaksin has offended those in high places by trying to open up the country to the benefit of all .

For all your giving the impression that you have been in Thailand a long time , I don't find you precisely well informed .

It's interesting that Thaksin's grandfather made all the family's money from poor farmers.

[RogueLeader]

Trololol

[yoshiwara]

Chermonman

Yes I was in Thailand when Thaksin was PM . What in your mind suggests he was turning Thailand into a Fascist state ?

You are either quoting from hearsay or totally ill informed . I live in a poor Isaan village full of farmers and farm workers .

They only had to hear there was an election coming and the cry was vote Thaksins .

Thaksin was the first politician who showed any care for the poor country people ; he comes from ChangMai another region of poor farmers .

The Bangkok elite like to keep the poor in rural areas so poor that they are happy to go south and work in factories for a pittance , enabling the rich to get richer .

Thaksin has offended those in high places by trying to open up the country to the benefit of all .

For all your giving the impression that you have been in Thailand a long time , I don't find you precisely well informed .

It's interesting that Thaksin's grandfather made all the family's money from poor farmers.

It is also interesting that Thaksin has as his allies the North-Eastern landowners and that the TRT has no policies for land reform that could conceivably aid the land workers.

It is of course a total myth that there is any working class base in Thaksin's policies though a few falang with the Che T-shirts think they are on a mission. Pathetic really that a new one pops up from the boiler room every three months or so. Same old. Same old.

[bigbamboo]

Wow he looks really old and fragile now, almost did not recognize him in that photo.

Maybe he's married to a Shinawatra who insatiability isn't confined to the boardroom?

[WAERTH]

It is more stable here than people realise - in a country that has been at war on and off with its neighbours for millennia,

Ermmmm Wolf5370. Thailand has not existed for even a millennium. And the Thais have not inhabited the Central plains for a millennium. The Thai people came from somewhere north of Thailand and only reached these parts 700-800 years or so ago. They first settled in the north and then slowly drove away the original inhabitants as they came south.

Also their wars where never over land. But over people. A very intruiging history. You should read up on it. Or not use it when you try to make a point about modern Thai history.

Also nations/countries are a more modern; 19th century invention.

W

ps I have been living here since Chuan Leekpai was PM

[hawker9000]

I remember Thaksin passed me walking on less then 1 meter distance, I was quite astonished by his powerful charismatic aura, way more like a guru then a politician. If you like him or not, he is a born leader anyway and the people pro/con know that very well.

History records that many Germans had precisely the same reaction to Hitler. As a small child, I was rather taken by Santa, too...

[sjjmmi]

Yes Yes The Jail Cell is waiting for him

[northernjohn]

Rametindallas

No , others do not fall short . It is said that there was more corruption during the Dems brief spell in government than in the Thaksin era .

The Coup was the biggest mistake the military could have made !!! Thaksin was and still is the hero of impoverished farmers in the north and northeast .

Thaksin's conviction was that as his wife's husband he had to sign a document , thus permitting her to buy a parcel of land that had originally failed to sell and she bought by sealed tender making the highest offer .

The crime was that he was PM and his signing the document constituted a conflict of interest .

The coup so fired up the people who support Thaksin , they being the majority of voters in Thailand ; that there is not likely to be any other than a Thaksin government for the foreseeable future .

As to those who say I support corruption ; if you don't like corruption , go back to your home countries . In Thailand corruption begins in the simplest home and stretches through every strata of society , getting bigger as it goes . You cannot live in Thailand and pretend everyone is Whiter than White and just few are corrupt , it is the way of life here , as it is in countries like Italy and now even the USA . While the Dems were in power they tried to pass a law making it illegal for farmers to make their own pesticide out of herbs and spices that people eat every day . It is said that someone close to government had big investments in "Monsanto", the government was trying to clear the way for Monsanto products to be exclusively marketed in Thailand . I'm told that MPs all take a 10% cut from the profits of major industries . The details at home as to the personal shortcomings are not important if the country has a High Profile abroad and has a flourishing economy , which Thailand did under Thaksin . Before everyone call Thaksin a convicted common criminal , they need to be conversant with the facts ; some commenters have very sketchy knowledge .

I have only been here for three years and have no memory of what Thaksin did for the poor. I was there two years ago in a village in Issan and the poverty was deplorable. I saw no improvements what so ever. No street lite No TVs just poverty. What did he do for them? I was here during the attempted coup and I did notice that Abhist treated the people very gently. He could have ended it all very quickly by just telling the army to move them out when they were breaking the law but not yet organized.I guess he could have said treat them like Thaksin did the people he suspected of drugs. Don't waste time with courts just shoot them.

The one thing that jumped out at me was that Abhist himself had no real power. He seemed to be depended on to many other parties. Cross one of them and out he would be. I am not a know it all but I do know some things Abhist agreed to what the red shirts wanted only to see Thaksin tell them no they couldn't do it they would have to stay and have a lot of people killed before he would allow it. Then a little later he abandoned them and stopped their pay checks. Maybe it is me but I see some thing wrong there.

As for corruption worse under Abhist than Thaksin. Well from what I have been able to gather Thaksin held the politicians back by taking the money himself. It was only when he let go of the reins of power that the others saw the opportunities that Thaksin had been taking for himself and really went into it. A lot of those people were still in government when Abhist became PM in fact I was told it took 30 of Thaksins men changing sides to put him in the seat of course they were going to carry on with the example Thaksin had set for them.

I was not here but I was awake during the Thaksin years he did nothing other than ride on a world wide economic boom. It had nothing to do with his leadership. If he was so good at leading the country into economic wellness why has he not done that now? Transferred one massive dept to another department so he could borrow more money and run the national debt up higher. Now I see he is trying to make one loan that by itself will put Thailand in debt for 50 years.

I am sorry but I have seen the poverty in the villages. The progress in the cities was just the natural result of the world wide economic boom nothing to do with him. What is it that he has to offer the country in reality terms. I know he told them they would all be rich in 6 months. Can't say as I have noticed that in my wife's family. I also notice that he changes his mind on a regular basis.Are you saying that would be a good thing in a leader. It is OK to change your mind maybe several times until you come to a salutation but not make a public announcement of it every time. Makes him look like a person a little bit unsure of them selves.

[wolf5370]

It is more stable here than people realise - in a country that has been at war on and off with its neighbours for millennia,

Ermmmm Wolf5370. Thailand has not existed for even a millennium. And the Thais have not inhabited the Central plains for a millennium. The Thai people came from somewhere north of Thailand and only reached these parts 700-800 years or so ago. They first settled in the north and then slowly drove away the original inhabitants as they came south.

Also their wars where never over land. But over people. A very intruiging history. You should read up on it. Or not use it when you try to make a point about modern Thai history.

Also nations/countries are a more modern; 19th century invention.

W

ps I have been living here since Chuan Leekpai was PM

Yes OK I was exaggerating a little - (I think you are probably talking about the Tai from the North - whether they were the ancestors of the current Thais is a little controversial - just as easy to say the Khmer from the East - or even the Chinese that married into the Khmer - via sea not land I believe - and of course the 3 waves of Chinese that came south in history too - yes interesting, I have several books on it and do indeed read up on it). Thailand we could say is very new as it was called Siam a century ago - and its borders have changed shape fluidly over time, including annexing Lanna. We could therefore, just as easily talk about the time that Thailand as is has been populated (about 35,000 years). The fact that there have been waves of different peoples claiming the land that is now Thailand, does not diminish my point as much as to enhance it - things change and in modern times it is far more stable and changes affect the general public far less than ever before and with little difference to government changes at home.

Not sure what you mean by saying that countries are a 19th century invention - that would suggest Scotland for example never existed as an independent country - perhaps the usage of the word (I doubt that too - but a possibility I guess) - nations (or any other synonym you would prefer) is certainly an older concept than two hundred years - take Egypt, China and many other very ancient civilizations.

PS: Congrats on getting a pre-Thaksin PM - just kidding (92 or 97?) - do you think it was safer and more stable under Leekpai? It was probably the quietest political time actually - go back 10 years or 20 years and its coup after coup and Military PMs (Plus Black May, the oil crisis, 73 uprising, Tiger Crash - which put Leepai in power for the second time, and so on ).

[rametindallas]

From what I read of posters on this forum, your post will be rebutted from posters who have no actual evidence; they will simply quote he was convicted in a court of law. However the same posters repeatedly complain that Thailand is corrupt and just recently they advocate that the military is running the country - but of course the courts that had the motive to convict Thaksin is not connect to the military or the yellow elite that are calling the shots; this makes me laugh. Those who quote you are a supporter of corruption are just plain daft; I believe you are simply stating that it is what the people want.

My only view is that the Thai people voted on the understand of a chance that their define leader will return; they should get what they voted for. However the current elite will do what ever possible to keep him out.

Please note this is a response to a Thaksin supporter (Toscano) but was sent from my Iphone but it did not include the poster

While I can't disagree with your first paragraph - wrt: we can only go on what we read (and saw, or saw the effects of, for those of us here during that period of course).

Your view that (reworded to make sense) Thai people voted on the understanding that attempts would be made to return the self-exiled ex-PM, is your view and the view of the Red elite and government leaders, but my view is they voted because they were promised fixed prices for rice, tablets for their children, much higher minimum wage and because their moo bahn poo yai told them to and they knew how stupid it would be to not follow such "advise" - and were convinced that a failed 30 baht health scheme is better than a working free one apparently.

I am always a little in wonder at the vitriol that Thaksin causes in the farang community (not just here but in bars across the land too). I wonder what it is really all about. Do they really care about a 1,000 suspected drug traffickers being gunned down; some Muslim rioters dying in custody in a van in the heat; that he managed to double his fortune while in office; that he sold Shin Corp tax free; that he sold friends and family compulsory purchased government land for a song; that he promoted his family members way above their station to leadership and powerbase positions? Really?

Nah, I think not - interesting, sure, but such vocal hate? Did it make any real difference to any of us or our Thai families or Thai friends and their families? Are we so much happier now than we were in 2006? Will it make one iota of difference to us if he does come back and is PM for the next 20 years until he is too old to continue? So is this not as much a mob mentality - media brainwashing - as the Red propaganda machine is? Is it helping our cause as foreigners in a strange land we desperately want to call home (and mean it). So what's it all about Willis?

//Edit: Why do I always spot the spelling mistakes AFTER hitting submit?

I have not previously commented about Thaksin; this is the first time. The negative political, law enforcement, human rights abuse issues and business ethics that flourished unfettered whilst he was PM is a major issue. If he had been a true leader and had steered Thailand in a more positive direction, who knows what benefits the Thai people would enjoy today and what the future would look like.

The endless time wasting and lost opportunity for the Thai people is appalling & contributed to by continuous political distractions. There are a number of indicators that Thailand is in a downward competitive trajectory on the economic & business front that directly impacts the future of the Thai people. Look up a recent presentation by the Thai Minister of Transport reported in the BKK Post.

There are many on TV who live in Thailand and have extended families as I do. I know that posting comments on TV will not have any influence on outcomes, but it is a relief outlet to share concerns. Getting back to your post do you accept that a possible future PM who has no respect for the law of the land and implements policies solely for his self-aggrandisement & power will provide a suitable environment for the long term, safe & stable future of your family here in Thailand? If you are able to insulate yourself and family, well done, but for the majority I don’t think so.

The major question is who in Thailand will lead Thailand in a positive direction; it’s not Thaksin. From reading the media reports sadly no other person seems to have been identified; do you have any viable suggestions?

Problem is for the thai population is whoever they vote for they get criminals but they believe the populist policies and infact dont know better or have the ability to see past that, at the moment they just have the worst of the bad in power.

Edited to say....maybe a few more informed posters could point the finger at who could lead thailand in a positive way? i fail to see any good guys,

Abhisit as far as i am concerned is an unknown....no real dirt on him but he did,nt do much, although i accept it must have been difficult with some of his enemys sitting at the table.

Abhisit is as straight as you can get in Thai politics but he will 'row the boat' for crooked politicians Korn is pretty straight but tainted by his speech at the occupation at the airport by the Yellow Shirts and has health issues. All the rest I can think of are no different from each other, other than their abilities and skill at corrupt practices. I'm OK with this bunch of thieves as long as their excesses can be reined in and they do not bring Dr. Thaksin home all white-washed.

[wolf5370]

Rametindallas

No , others do not fall short . It is said that there was more corruption during the Dems brief spell in government than in the Thaksin era .

The Coup was the biggest mistake the military could have made !!! Thaksin was and still is the hero of impoverished farmers in the north and northeast .

Thaksin's conviction was that as his wife's husband he had to sign a document , thus permitting her to buy a parcel of land that had originally failed to sell and she bought by sealed tender making the highest offer .

The crime was that he was PM and his signing the document constituted a conflict of interest .

The coup so fired up the people who support Thaksin , they being the majority of voters in Thailand ; that there is not likely to be any other than a Thaksin government for the foreseeable future .

As to those who say I support corruption ; if you don't like corruption , go back to your home countries . In Thailand corruption begins in the simplest home and stretches through every strata of society , getting bigger as it goes . You cannot live in Thailand and pretend everyone is Whiter than White and just few are corrupt , it is the way of life here , as it is in countries like Italy and now even the USA . While the Dems were in power they tried to pass a law making it illegal for farmers to make their own pesticide out of herbs and spices that people eat every day . It is said that someone close to government had big investments in "Monsanto", the government was trying to clear the way for Monsanto products to be exclusively marketed in Thailand . I'm told that MPs all take a 10% cut from the profits of major industries . The details at home as to the personal shortcomings are not important if the country has a High Profile abroad and has a flourishing economy , which Thailand did under Thaksin . Before everyone call Thaksin a convicted common criminal , they need to be conversant with the facts ; some commenters have very sketchy knowledge .

I have only been here for three years and have no memory of what Thaksin did for the poor. I was there two years ago in a village in Issan and the poverty was deplorable. I saw no improvements what so ever. No street lite No TVs just poverty. What did he do for them? I was here during the attempted coup and I did notice that Abhist treated the people very gently. He could have ended it all very quickly by just telling the army to move them out when they were breaking the law but not yet organized.I guess he could have said treat them like Thaksin did the people he suspected of drugs. Don't waste time with courts just shoot them.

The one thing that jumped out at me was that Abhist himself had no real power. He seemed to be depended on to many other parties. Cross one of them and out he would be. I am not a know it all but I do know some things Abhist agreed to what the red shirts wanted only to see Thaksin tell them no they couldn't do it they would have to stay and have a lot of people killed before he would allow it. Then a little later he abandoned them and stopped their pay checks. Maybe it is me but I see some thing wrong there.

As for corruption worse under Abhist than Thaksin. Well from what I have been able to gather Thaksin held the politicians back by taking the money himself. It was only when he let go of the reins of power that the others saw the opportunities that Thaksin had been taking for himself and really went into it. A lot of those people were still in government when Abhist became PM in fact I was told it took 30 of Thaksins men changing sides to put him in the seat of course they were going to carry on with the example Thaksin had set for them.

I was not here but I was awake during the Thaksin years he did nothing other than ride on a world wide economic boom. It had nothing to do with his leadership. If he was so good at leading the country into economic wellness why has he not done that now? Transferred one massive dept to another department so he could borrow more money and run the national debt up higher. Now I see he is trying to make one loan that by itself will put Thailand in debt for 50 years.

I am sorry but I have seen the poverty in the villages. The progress in the cities was just the natural result of the world wide economic boom nothing to do with him. What is it that he has to offer the country in reality terms. I know he told them they would all be rich in 6 months. Can't say as I have noticed that in my wife's family. I also notice that he changes his mind on a regular basis.Are you saying that would be a good thing in a leader. It is OK to change your mind maybe several times until you come to a salutation but not make a public announcement of it every time. Makes him look like a person a little bit unsure of them selves.

This is an interesting discussion too that unfortunately will just butt heads between the lovers and haters. The truth is really that Thaksin was SEEN as being for the poor and helping out - it is true that for probably the first time (remember that pretty much before his time PMs were Royals, military or high born with a few exceptions) he did at least notice they existed politically and policy wise. He created the 30 baht medical scheme (and the haters will jump in that it caused many clinics to close due to bankruptcy due to poor funding for the scheme - which is true, but the point still stands that at least it was a gesture) - he also brought in the concept of micro-loans to farmers (again poorly implemented and instead of farmers investing in equipment as expected, much was wasted on mobile phones, cars, bling and booze - which ended up making the poor poorer as they now were in debt too). The Dems actually made a working free medical system (working at least for as long as they were in power), but this was thrown away with the new government and propagandard (OK made that word up) into non-existence as far as public memory seems to go. He also (and another double edged sword) made it easier for long term land users (families that had worked the government loaned land for several years at least and still did) to convert their government land into owned land (NS2 to NS3 and then chanot) - and to reclaim unused government land for re-distribution - converting NS2 to 3/ MS3 to chanot has actually been much harder to do since 2006 - but it also (the other edge) allowed for the land parcels to be available for sale which caused his Mrs so much legal grief.

[hawker9000]

Rametindallas

No , others do not fall short . It is said that there was more corruption during the Dems brief spell in government than in the Thaksin era .

The Coup was the biggest mistake the military could have made !!! Thaksin was and still is the hero of impoverished farmers in the north and northeast .

Thaksin's conviction was that as his wife's husband he had to sign a document , thus permitting her to buy a parcel of land that had originally failed to sell and she bought by sealed tender making the highest offer .

The crime was that he was PM and his signing the document constituted a conflict of interest .

The coup so fired up the people who support Thaksin , they being the majority of voters in Thailand ; that there is not likely to be any other than a Thaksin government for the foreseeable future .

As to those who say I support corruption ; if you don't like corruption , go back to your home countries . In Thailand corruption begins in the simplest home and stretches through every strata of society , getting bigger as it goes . You cannot live in Thailand and pretend everyone is Whiter than White and just few are corrupt , it is the way of life here , as it is in countries like Italy and now even the USA . While the Dems were in power they tried to pass a law making it illegal for farmers to make their own pesticide out of herbs and spices that people eat every day . It is said that someone close to government had big investments in "Monsanto", the government was trying to clear the way for Monsanto products to be exclusively marketed in Thailand . I'm told that MPs all take a 10% cut from the profits of major industries . The details at home as to the personal shortcomings are not important if the country has a High Profile abroad and has a flourishing economy , which Thailand did under Thaksin . Before everyone call Thaksin a convicted common criminal , they need to be conversant with the facts ; some commenters have very sketchy knowledge .

I have only been here for three years and have no memory of what Thaksin did for the poor. I was there two years ago in a village in Issan and the poverty was deplorable. I saw no improvements what so ever. No street lite No TVs just poverty. What did he do for them? I was here during the attempted coup and I did notice that Abhist treated the people very gently. He could have ended it all very quickly by just telling the army to move them out when they were breaking the law but not yet organized.I guess he could have said treat them like Thaksin did the people he suspected of drugs. Don't waste time with courts just shoot them.

The one thing that jumped out at me was that Abhist himself had no real power. He seemed to be depended on to many other parties. Cross one of them and out he would be. I am not a know it all but I do know some things Abhist agreed to what the red shirts wanted only to see Thaksin tell them no they couldn't do it they would have to stay and have a lot of people killed before he would allow it. Then a little later he abandoned them and stopped their pay checks. Maybe it is me but I see some thing wrong there.

As for corruption worse under Abhist than Thaksin. Well from what I have been able to gather Thaksin held the politicians back by taking the money himself. It was only when he let go of the reins of power that the others saw the opportunities that Thaksin had been taking for himself and really went into it. A lot of those people were still in government when Abhist became PM in fact I was told it took 30 of Thaksins men changing sides to put him in the seat of course they were going to carry on with the example Thaksin had set for them.

I was not here but I was awake during the Thaksin years he did nothing other than ride on a world wide economic boom. It had nothing to do with his leadership. If he was so good at leading the country into economic wellness why has he not done that now? Transferred one massive dept to another department so he could borrow more money and run the national debt up higher. Now I see he is trying to make one loan that by itself will put Thailand in debt for 50 years.

I am sorry but I have seen the poverty in the villages. The progress in the cities was just the natural result of the world wide economic boom nothing to do with him. What is it that he has to offer the country in reality terms. I know he told them they would all be rich in 6 months. Can't say as I have noticed that in my wife's family. I also notice that he changes his mind on a regular basis.Are you saying that would be a good thing in a leader. It is OK to change your mind maybe several times until you come to a salutation but not make a public announcement of it every time. Makes him look like a person a little bit unsure of them selves.

Only 3 years, eh? 'Looks like you picked up on a lot in a relatively short time. You must be one of those who actually walks around with his eyes & ears open, and doesn't necessarily accept at face value everything printed in the media! 'A rare breed these days.

[whybother]

Abhisit is as straight as you can get in Thai politics but he will 'row the boat' for crooked politicians Korn is pretty straight but tainted by his speech at the occupation at the airport by the Yellow Shirts and has health issues. All the rest I can think of are no different from each other, other than their abilities and skill at corrupt practices. I'm OK with this bunch of thieves as long as their excesses can be reined in and they do not bring Dr. Thaksin home all white-washed.

It was Kasit that spoke to the yellow shirts, not Korn.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Noistar]

Could it be that he is already back?

There are unconfirmed reports (rumors) of a war room at a luxury resort on Koh Chang with a VIP in charge.

It has also been said that an immigration police officer in Trat province and an officer at the Department of Civil Aviation reported that a private plane carrying a VIP had landed at Trat airport and then that person was taken by a speed boat to Koh Chang amid tight security.

No it isn't me that's saying that, it was reported by another media source which shall remain nameless.

But anyway it is true that he is long overdue to return.

He should have returned directly after the Olympics as was the conditions of his bail

True or not, I think KT is more concerned about a 'triumphant' can't catch me return, rather than a physical return.

Mind you, what's to say he's not getting desperate now.

If true, he's just replaced one luxury bolt-hole with another even more restrictive one.

[Robby nz]

I have only been here just on 8 years and in that time I have seen my attitude change from taking no notice of anything but what I wanted to do to watching and commenting on what is going on.

Whatever Thaksin did or did not do in the past is behind us now but it is clear that all the problems this country is having now are caused by his greed and lust for power.

Had he been an honest man and done things solely for the good of the people and the country when he was in power I believe this would by now be a great country and he would still be PM with huge support........................ But.

He has enough wealth, probably more than all the posters here put together, he could live a life of luxury and self indulgence that most of us could never contemplate yet he wants more.

This to me is something I just don't understand, I have enough to live a reasonable life, be nice to have a bit more then I could do a few more things.

But to have billions and spend it on trying to gain power over others regardless of the trouble it causes or even the cost in lives as in the riots he funded is, as I said beyond my understanding.

Sure there are others with huge wealth who are always trying to get more but I don't see any of them trying to take over the Government of this country.

And yes it does impact on me for there are still many places I want to go, things I want to see and do in this country and there are those who want to do these things with me.

Selfish? sure but selfishness dose not hurt others as does greed and power lust.

[jacko45k]

It's been a long time, he has been punished for sure by not being able to come home.

I think that the amnesty is a good thing, and Thaksin should be allowed to come home at last. But, with one condition: His prison sentence which was for a criminal offense still needs to be served, even if he does a token few months and is released on parole.. and with that criminal record he should be barred from politics.

I would not call a 'token few months'.... serving his sentence.

Even 50% would be a year in jail.

And criminals don't get barred from politics here!

[wolf5370]

It's been a long time, he has been punished for sure by not being able to come home.

I think that the amnesty is a good thing, and Thaksin should be allowed to come home at last. But, with one condition: His prison sentence which was for a criminal offense still needs to be served, even if he does a token few months and is released on parole.. and with that criminal record he should be barred from politics.

I would not call a 'token few months'.... serving his sentence.

Even 50% would be a year in jail.

And criminals don't get barred from politics here!

Apart from the fact that he was barred from politics - for 5 years - now expired.

[rametindallas]

Abhisit is as straight as you can get in Thai politics but he will 'row the boat' for crooked politicians Korn is pretty straight but tainted by his speech at the occupation at the airport by the Yellow Shirts and has health issues. All the rest I can think of are no different from each other, other than their abilities and skill at corrupt practices. I'm OK with this bunch of thieves as long as their excesses can be reined in and they do not bring Dr. Thaksin home all white-washed.

It was Kasit that spoke to the yellow shirts, not Korn.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's right. Abhisit's foreign minister. Thank you for the correction.