Sick Golden Retriever with Tick Problem and potential infection

[Old Man River]

My golden, Taffy, has had a tick problem for several months now (since the rainy season in Bangkok). We have done Frontline on her shoulder blades several times, and every day pick them off. She has even had that "something mectin" shot that is supposed to be good for 2 months (lower dose so as not to hurt dogs).

Now she has an ear problem and maybe worse. One ear got very red. We went to a Vet near our house, and he prescribed Virbac's Dexoryl, 5 drops in the morning and 5 in the evening as well as a strong anti-inflamatory. Being "smart", although the other ear didn't have a problem, we put the Dexoryl in both ears and watched the bad ear get worse and the good one get as bad as the other one was. Clearly, our dog was allergic to this medicine.

Yesterday, we switched Vets and went to Thong Lo's main Vet clinic on soi 55 where we spent over THB 4,000. They did a supposedly complete check up, including X-Rays etc. Of course, the results of the blood test came back to the doctor after we had left. Before she had the blood test results, she told me, without doubt, our dog did not have an infection. Hence she perscribed Tramadol HCL 50 MG (it looks like once per day, but I can't read it from this "Farang Friendly" Vet. She also perscribed Prednisolone 5 MG and ATarax 25 mg. None of it was in English in this Vet that advertises itself as being "Farang Friendly." Fortunately, my wife can read it.

Later in the day, Dr. Ajaree called us with the results of the blood test and said there were some problems and our dog definitely was either fighting an allergy or an infection (that word, that previously she claimed didn't exist in our dog). Taffy's WBC was 23.1, RBC was 4.44, HGB was 11.1, MCV 85.4, MCHC 29.3, RDW 11.3%, and SGPT/ALT 200. The only thing she added was Essentiale (a liver tonic).

Perhaps she is right in what she has done, but I know she could have a much better idea if she had ordered a WBC differential to see if it was related to a infection (which she is not treating). In addition, we know Taffy has a tick problem and the SNAP 4 DX test Thong Lo uses only tests for one tick borne disease when there are many, many and Vets in the US call for either PCR testing (direct) or IFR or ELISA testing (indirect). None of these were suggested or even discussd at all.

Now, I know laboratories keep blood for 24 hours, so I called the "Farang Friendly" Thong Lo Vet Clinic to ask that they at least do a WBC differential on the blood they will keep for 24 hours, but I couldn't find anyone who could speak English, even after dialing "9" for English. I emailed them through their "contact us" page, but that seems to be down. There is a window of opportunity to do a WBC differential, but finding someone who speaks English is dificult. Even the Vets I talked to yesterday, including Dr. Ajeree, had problems with English.

It isn't the THB 4,000 + I spent yesterday or the THB 300,000 plus we spent a few years ago trying to save a dog to no avail. It is all about our current dog, Taffy and that is my frustration.

Any ideas?

Best,

OMR

[wayned]

You need to take her to a good veterinary hospital. I don't live in Bangkok, but I think that one of the major universities, Chulalongkorn, has a good veterinary clinic. I have raised Goldens all of my life. The increase in tick infestation is most likely due to an inbalance in the dog's immune system which is being caused by another infection. I recently lost my avatar to cancer and prior to his death the tick infestation was terrible.

[Old Man River]

You need to take her to a good veterinary hospital. I don't live in Bangkok, but I think that one of the major universities, Chulalongkorn, has a good veterinary clinic. I have raised Goldens all of my life. The increase in tick infestation is most likely due to an inbalance in the dog's immune system which is being caused by another infection. I recently lost my avatar to cancer and prior to his death the tick infestation was terrible.

Waynet, thank you. The Vet we normally take her to is a local one in Bangkok. Both this Vet and her father that owns the clinic are Chua Vets. Most of their viets are Chua, Mahidol or Kon Kaen, all of which I trust.

I finally got a Vet at the Farang Friendly vetenary clinic to understand (in English) what I wanted today and the WBC differential test was finally done before more blood had to be taken. Not surprisingly, it showed,our Golden had an infection. As Gomer Pyle used to say, Surprise, Surprise.

Finallly our vet at the Farang Friendly vetenarian clinic called and said that, based on the blood test I ordered,,our Golden's infection was chronic! Yesterday, there was absoutely no infection and today, after the test I ordered was done, it is a chronic infection! So now, the vet has ordered antibiotics.

The fact is, the local Vets are often as good as the big vet clinics. Depending on the clinic, they may or may not have similar equipment. The big Farang Friendly clinic has its own lab, so results are within a few hours instead of a day. That is a plus, as long as you can get someone who understands English at the Farang Friendly vet clinic on a Sunday. They did tell me that the manager didn't work Sundays. I would have thought that the weekend would have been the busiest. It is at our local vet clinic, but then the owners actually reside there.

Wayned, we lost one Golden a few years ago to cancer, and are very cognizant of these possibilities. The initial blood tests kind of looked like cancer and we aren't out of the woods yet with her, but there are reasons for the elevated ALT (strong anti inflamatories) and the WBC differential which shows a very high neutrophils rate indicates an infection that yesterday the vet said didn't exist and today said is chronic.

Thanks again for the response,

OMR

[Cuban]

If the dog is being reinfected/exposed to ticks you need to deal with that by sorting out the cracks in tiles, concrete etc in the areas the dog has access to. Look at bedding etc.

Vets in Thailand will speak Thai, even the Farang Friendly ones - which seems to be a big sticking point for you.

When dealing with such medication dose and application questions is it not a good idea to take with you to the vet or doctors a notebook and pen to both prompt you to ask relevant questions, how many pills, pre or post meals etc But also to record the answers.

If you use something like Google Translate to form questions (many technical or disease words are understood in English which is just as well as Google Translate will probably fail to offer a suitable translation) ensure that you think clearing when forming the question, keep the question/sentence short, and do not use words with more than one meaning.

Is it right to feed my dog at night? (Although Google Translate has context filters will it use Right as in correct or left?)

Feed dog at night. Good - Bad?

Although there is much written about raw garlic being bad for dogs, for many years we have given ours a small clove (crushed) once a week while in Tick season. Very good results compared to other dogs nearby.

We too have a 2 yr Golden.

[manarak]

I don't want to bash, but 300k THB to save a dog?

Think about how many humans you could have saved with that money...

[Cuban]

For a family member, some dogs rate higher than some people.

[wayned]

My dogs are more loyal to me than many family members! Would I spend 300k to save my dog or give it to the as**hole that poisoned him, a no brainer!

[meatboy]

I don't want to bash, but 300k THB to save a dog?

Think about how many humans you could have saved with that money...

what a nice bloke you are,300,000bht to try and save a loyal freind you can add a few noughts to that if it was mine.

how do you cope not being loved.

[wolf5370]

My dog dies a few years back now (of cancer) - but when he got tick problems (interestingly when he was younger, fitter and well - not when he had the cancer issues) I of course had the jabs done - they work better that Frontline does (incidentally, it is far cheaper if bought by the bottle - Thai brand and an eye dropper, or better as syringe, is used to apply) - but I also put him on a course of wide spectrum antibiotics - some serious infections can come from ticks and its better to be safe than sorry (as long as the course is completed as always with antibiotics). Ticks can get right down in the ears - if they die there (due to the jab perhaps), they can rot in place and cause infection - ticks allergy is also a possibility. A single pregnant tick can lay 4000 young in one go - never stamp on them (like cockroaches this can just leave the eggs in cracks for later) - drop them in a jar with water and washing up liquid in it - they drown safely - then flush em the following day (they take a long time to drown!).

Also there is a shampoo called Ion which is natural so doesn't cause dry skin - it is made in Thailand . The Green one (there are several kinds - you want the green one) is Herbal made with Sugar Apple and Neem Oil - Neem is well known to farmers here, it is a tree which has leaves and bark that is poisonous to most insects (used shredded leaves in mulch to keep insects off of teak trees etc). This stuff works great at keeping the buggers away from the animal (we use it on our cats now) - its is cheap, about 60baht for 300ml. Direction is Thai and English. Smells nice too

PS: In CM all the vets I've been too speak excellent English (they usually have to like doctors and pharmacists) - maybe you need to find better vets.

Edited August 4, 2013 by wolf5370

[cmsally]

My Golden died last year and suffered an unusual tick infestation before that.

I don't think its coincidence.

Did all the tests and came back negative, could not find a reason at all.

But after enquiring and reading about it since, looks to me like paralysis ticks - which supposedly don't exist in Thailand - or so the vet said.

Anyone have experience of paralysis ticks and the symptoms , especially Thailand.

[Mobi]

Hi OMR,

So sorry to hear about your problems with your dog, I remember so well the distress you experienced with your previous golden.

I do hope you get it all resolved.

Through the years I have found the problems with finding good vets is not unlike the situation in finding good doctors. It is all so hit and miss and wherever you go, - cheap or expensive - there is no guarantee you will find one that can do the job to our satisfaction. Its seems to be pretty much pot luck, and when you do find a good one, you tend to hang on to him/her.

You may recall our golden - Cookie. She is still well at 8 years old but rather arthritic in her back legs so not very active, but we still walk her every day. Last year we acquired a 2 year old Labrador who is such a dear and hopefully the wrench will not be too great when Cookie finally goes.

Anyway, i hope you get to the bottom of your problems.

Good luck,

Mobi

[jpeg]

One of my dogs had a tick infection couple of months back and survived. The vet came to the house and gave daily shots. however, I'm on Phuket so level/diversity of animal care very good.

Your dog should be injected against ticks EVERY month. If your dog still has the infection, get it to a good animal hospital, stay is around 5 days.

Edited August 5, 2013 by jpeg

[Naam]

For a family member, some dogs rate higher than some people.

[meatboy]

taffy get well soon.

thinking of you.

taffy.

[cmsally]

From reading up a lot on this it seems that tick diseases are the big cause of immuno suppression. So the dog gets an infection and is unable to fight it. So the underlying tick disease needs to be treated even more than the infections etc.

The problem in my case was that all the tests came up negative.

For tick disease most of the cures are antibiotics (so you should be able to kill 2 birds with one stone) so make sure your dog gets a dose of something that kills both the infection and the tick disease. If it were me and ticks test negative I would still get the antibiotics to try and kill it off (both tick disease and infection) to be on the safe side.

[kevin2852]

I have lived in Thailand for 3 years, scattered between the North East and the Udon Thani area , That Phanom, Nam Som, Khon Kaen and finally Chiang Mai and lastly Samut Prakhan and Bangkok. In all of those places, I have owned and cared for dogs. I am back in Australia now and I know Western and many Thai vets who have told me that Paralysis ticks do not exist in Thailand. That could not be more wrong, these are not insects, they are arachnids and they exist all over South East Asia and no furred animal is safe from parasitic infection. The Thais have a name of this non existent animal which is known to be extremely dangerous ( เห็บอัมพาต )but National pride, seems to keep them from suggesting that Thailand has ANY dangerous animals, insects or spiders.

There has been a suggestion over the last 3 months that Ticks can also carry Dengue fever and Lyme disease but I have seen no concrete evidence for this, it seems likely though.

I do not believe that using frontline is effective for more than a couple of days and dosing too frequently can be dangerous, but there is a local shampoo which contains tree oils which we have found to be very effective and a rinse with a bucket of warm water containing a few mls of ti-tree or eucalyptus oils will cause the ticks to lose interest and drop off very quickly. Combing will effectively remove any eggs also. The best defense against these is inspection since an engorged tick is almost 2/3 the size of a 5 cent piece and it will take about 4 to 5 days to get to that size. Check the animal over with a comb and your hands every couple of days is the best advice that can be given

[PMK]

A lot of people look in the wrong place for ticks. They like to get up high and then drop down on the animal. You'll probably find more - especially of the fat, egg-laying ones, on walls, the back of curtains, curtain rods, and ceiling trim than around the baseboards. Frontline, in my experience is useless, as are most chemical agents. Unlike fleas, ticks are very difficult to kill like that. There is no substitute for checking them daily including inside the paws, and also anus area.