Bangkok: Unrelenting activists to upgrade protest intensity

[mrtoad]

Here we go again

[h90]

do you have any reason to call them fascist? Or do you do it only because it sounds evil?

Most of them are either

Democrat party supporter = sure not fascists

Monarchists = sure not fascists

a lot of former communists = sure not fascists

and a complete mix of the middle class in Bangkok....

where are the fascists?

Mostly comes from their nationalistic rhetoric. Their intolerance for the democratic process (democrats would use the democratic process as it should be used). Their belief that a military govt is the way forward rather than the present situation. They want direct action to effect change, that is the street over the ballot box. Don't get me wrong I have no love of PT, but the political processes this group support are at heart fascistic. More in the Italian mode but not none the less---

I would call it fascist if laws are changed for one man and one man who is not elected controls the government. The ballot box doesn't work with massive vote buying.

PTP destroyed or trying the separation of power. They have already direct control of the police. They have partial control of the courts. They have control of the elections.

In my opinion a coup is the only way to restore Democracy (but I have to admit that it didn't work the last 15 coups ).

But the activists would go home if only the government stops to overrule the courts for Thaksin. Drop that law and everyone goes home.

I agree with you 100% on PT, as far as I can see they are no different to the "people's army" in the anti democratic fascistic leanings. Politically they are as bad as each other and represent themselves and their needs rather than the country. Coups don't work anymore, the army realises that and don't seem inclined to act. I have no problems with protests and movements for change left or right wing (I have my own political stance but accept others have theirs). My problem is with those who have no tolerance for other viewpoints, use nationalism (not patriotism, thats different) to further their cause, call for direct action on the streets to force home their political representives, call on the army to do the same and will not accept democracy is all about compromise. Without political compromise their is no way forward and violence is the result. As for thaksin: lock him up, he's corrupt and has blood on his hands. He's slime.

Well coups could work....but the example where it did are rare...but there are a few worldwide.

The "People's army" is a mix of total different groups. As soon as the government falls they are history. Not because they want to stop, because they are so different parts inside. From extreme left to extreme right. They only stay together because they want to get rid of Thaksin.

You write: "As for thaksin: lock him up, he's corrupt and has blood on his hands. He's slime." and I agree with that. Basically he is the countries leader at the moment. For me any method, democratic or not is acceptable to get rid of him.

War against drugs cost 3000 lives.

If he comes back and might want revenge on his enemies there might be more lifes. I prefer friendly military dictators (like Surayud was) who later make elections again than having dead people on the street again.

Without the pressure from the street we are heading in a less democratic direction. About democracy...recall what Thaksin told and what his son told. I prefer every 4 years a coup, to a democracy like it is in North Korea.

[Jingthing]

The recent "coup" in Egypt points to a different way of SOMETIMES looking at coups.

If a democratically elected regime when they actually get power becomes massive undemocratic, some would say going to the streets to change governments is justified.

No, I am not saying Thailand is Egypt, but I am saying coups and democracy in immature democracies like Thailand (and Egypt) are not purist, black and white concepts.

My personal view here is that there is so much to dislike about the Thaksinista current government AND the forces that wish to bring it down.

So I wish the Thais good luck with that, and also expats who will also be impacted by these events.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Jingthing

[OzMick]

Reputedly Mussolini got the trains to run on time. Perhaps Thailand could use a little fascism.

In fact, it may even be preferable to the current kleptocracy.

[Bluespunk]

Reputedly Mussolini got the trains to run on time. Perhaps Thailand could use a little fascism.

In fact, it may even be preferable to the current kleptocracy.

I think he got them to run on time by simply changing arrival and departure times so they matched the amount of time the train journey actually took.

[OzMick]

Reputedly Mussolini got the trains to run on time. Perhaps Thailand could use a little fascism.

In fact, it may even be preferable to the current kleptocracy.

I think he got them to run on time by simply changing arrival and departure times so they matched the amount of time the train journey actually took.

I believe that's called realism. Thailand could use some of that, instead of the current BS being offered.

[h90]

Reputedly Mussolini got the trains to run on time. Perhaps Thailand could use a little fascism.

In fact, it may even be preferable to the current kleptocracy.

to get the trains on time in Italy might be a similar task than get them on time in Thailand.

I can't believe that....

There are no fascists that want to get power in Thailand.

the activists don't want to seize power themself.

I don't like Abhisit, but surely he isn't a fascist.

Where are the fascists??

[petedk]

I'm completely lost regarding all these groups but I have a Thai friend who is now with the "Urapong Group" (hope it's that's the correct spelling) and that they are now marching towards parliament.

She aslo said that the press are not reporting anything (self censorship).

Anyone know about this?

[h90]

I'm completely lost regarding all these groups but I have a Thai friend who is now with the "Urapong Group" (hope it's that's the correct spelling) and that they are now marching towards parliament.

She aslo said that the press are not reporting anything (self censorship).

Anyone know about this?

I have no TV close but look at BlueChannel (I think that is the name) or ASTV.

These will report it for sure if true.

[Jingthing]

Reputedly Mussolini got the trains to run on time. Perhaps Thailand could use a little fascism.

In fact, it may even be preferable to the current kleptocracy.

to get the trains on time in Italy might be a similar task than get them on time in Thailand.

I can't believe that....

There are no fascists that want to get power in Thailand.

the activists don't want to seize power themself.

I don't like Abhisit, but surely he isn't a fascist.

Where are the fascists??

I don't think Abhisit is a fascist either, but part of the anti-red/Thaksin base definitely has fascistic elements. That isn't news. Some of that faction supported Abhisit when he was in power and some of them didn't (not pandering to them enough I suppose).

[h90]

Reputedly Mussolini got the trains to run on time. Perhaps Thailand could use a little fascism.

In fact, it may even be preferable to the current kleptocracy.

to get the trains on time in Italy might be a similar task than get them on time in Thailand.

I can't believe that....

There are no fascists that want to get power in Thailand.

the activists don't want to seize power themself.

I don't like Abhisit, but surely he isn't a fascist.

Where are the fascists??

I don't think Abhisit is a fascist either, but part of the anti-red/Thaksin base definitely has fascistic elements. That isn't news. Some of that faction supported Abhisit when he was in power and some of them didn't (not pandering to them enough I suppose).

part of the red shirts are also stalinist and maoist communists. But that doesn't make Thaksin a communist.

That some fascists support Abhisit while other fascists didn't want him in office (vote no) doesn't really mean anything about him.

A little bit more fascist style from him maybe would have made him a better premier (take that as weird joke......)

[Jingthing]

Another way to put it, it difficult and possibly pointless for westerners to project their own political preferences onto Thai political factions. They don't fit. I don't see any existing Thai political faction that is consistent with my personal politics. Perhaps the best we can hope for is as little pain as possible during the process of maturation of "democracy" in Thailand.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Jingthing

[webfact]

1,700 medical teams standby to provide medical attention during the rally

BANGKOK, 6 August 2013 (NNT)-The National Institute of Emergency Medicine (NIEM) is ready to provide medical attention around the clock to people in and around Bangkok during the political demonstration.

The NIEM will deploy more than 1,700 medical teams to various locations in the capital city and its surrounding provinces. They can be divided into 3 groups of medical services depending on the severity and conditions of injured persons.

NIEM Secretary General, Dr. Anucha Setsathien said the medical service will be carried out under emergency situations. A committee has also been set up to oversee the operation.

Its responsibilities consist of getting medical staff ready for any events during the rally and making sure the team will never be short of staff whenever medical help is needed. Anyone spotting casualties or emergency illnesses during the political movement is encouraged to call 1669.


-- NNT 2013-08-06

[h90]

Another way to put in, it isn't easy for westerners to project their own political preferences onto Thai political factions. I don't see any existing Thai political faction that is consistent with my personal politics. Perhaps the best we can hope for is as little pain as possible during the process of maturation of "democracy" in Thailand.

Well as Westerner I wouldn't be so proud of our own Democracy. Take as example: USA, Germany and France and look at the parties, the system of election, how the parties make promotion and how the media situation is.

The only differences I see: a bit less corruption in the west and a way more professional look of things. But if you look careful, than there is still a lot corruption in the west and in some cases it is far less democratic than in Thailand.

In Thailand the problems are very visible. In the west they are much better hidden.

[Jingthing]

Fair enough, but picking sides here for westerners can be a sticky wicket.

[tominbkk]

How many protestors are there now?

[klubex99]

Another coup, that'll spark ANOTHER protest by the red shirts again...

Erm.... I don't think so. There will be martial law imposed, and god help any reds that try to protest during martial law.

[h90]

Another coup, that'll spark ANOTHER protest by the red shirts again...

Erm.... I don't think so. There will be martial law imposed, and god help any reds that try to protest during martial law.

you only need to stop the flow of money and the red shirt movement is down to somewhat between 1500-5000 people.

I know a lot people who love Thaksin, but wouldn't vote for him unless they get paid for it

And much less they would travel to Bangkok. And many of the leaders are paid by Thaksin. They want to enjoy their money, they don't want to die for their dear leader. So I don't think there will be much trouble.

[dluek]

I went running in Lumpini Park this past Sunday around 4:30pm. There were some crowds out front by the Rama VI statue and the MRT entrance, but it really wasn't all that big of a demonstration. Felt like any other Sunday in the park except for in that relatively small area. Maybe it's getting bigger, but the press could be blowing this one out of proportion.

[Rob8891]

You know what Thais are like when you hand them a microphone. alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

......as long as they don't start singing "The Last Waltz".......

I'm completely lost regarding all these groups but I have a Thai friend who is now with the "Urapong Group" (hope it's that's the correct spelling) and that they are now marching towards parliament.

She aslo said that the press are not reporting anything (self censorship).

Anyone know about this?

We are in the UK right now, and getting detailed news is almost impossible. The two main newspaper websites (one of whom we can't talk about) are A) overwhelmed and devoid of much information. My gf is chatting with friends in BKK, but it's hard to get an overall picture.

We arrive back in LOS next week..... dressed in neutral colours, of course.

PS....ARE there any colours not nabbed by sundry splinter groups?????

[khunken]

If one wants to bandy around words like fascist to describe some of the protestors, then how about another: dictatorship.

Often the two are linked and one is as bad as the other. Here we have a party & a government completely dominated by one man who has always made sure that there are enough family members as well as acolytes in important positions to bolster his dominance.

Hardly a sniff away from a dictator. Now the supposed fascists are protesting against that. Well if protesting their way is fascism, then I'm a fascist.

When a group wants to remove a dictator, who can they call on to help? The only group that have the power to help them is the military - as is the case in a number of developing countries.

The last coup failed in one respect - the removal of the Shinawatra dynasty from power. I know the military doesn't want another coup but if the PTP whitewash Thaksin of all his crimes, they may well feel obliged to take action.

[siampolee]

The protest group has to date been peaceful, however the pressure is building up on all sides. the Thai people are not as stupid as many think , certainly those around the villages here in my neck of the woods in Surin are not over impressed with the amnesty deal,As one man said to me this morning he can't understand why one of the locals got 3 years for driving while drunk and wrecking some Hi So's new Nissan Teana yet no-one was hurt but Thaksin and his corruption along with many deaths in the War On Drugs is s going unpunished and in fact he (Thaksin) is to made a hero (his words not mine).

The end game is starting and it isn't going to be a fun run,Whether or not violence erupts will depend on many factors and of course the bias of both the police and the military who may be involved in peacekeeping activities over the next week or so or possibly longer who knows.

Unknown factors that delightful ''Third Hand'' possibly a Red Shirt Militia although I am of the opinion that the Red Shirt movement will be kept on a short leash this time round. Their involvement would indeed antagonize many people and of course they are as far as Thaksin and his ilk are concerned a bit of an unknown factor who of late have been flexing their muscles regarding what they want or expect from the P.T.P hence Thaksin will no doubt tighten up his wallet until he has achieved his desired ends and the pawns are cast to the winds.

So far so good, let us hope peaceful means achieve a balanced outcome,

These people are not fascists or raving right or left wingers or the old agiprop rentamob crowd they are the ordinary people of Thailand who are getting a little more politically aware and they don't like what they see, nor do they condone the rampant corruption and the blatant disregard for democracy that is creeping into all levels of Thai political society at this moment in time at the behest of one person and his ultimate benefit

[Scott]

Some baiting and inflammatory posts have been deleted. Please stick to the topic. There is no need to take personal shots at other posters.

[dumpling]

I think something is on the cards.Check points causing traffic delays today as they checked cars and pick ups for who knows what.

[Thai at Heart]

Reputedly Mussolini got the trains to run on time. Perhaps Thailand could use a little fascism.

In fact, it may even be preferable to the current kleptocracy.

I think he got them to run on time by simply changing arrival and departure times so they matched the amount of time the train journey actually took.

I believe that's called realism. Thailand could use some of that, instead of the current BS being offered.

They are planning the "pristine samet" marketing right now.

[GrantSmith]

I think something is on the cards.Check points causing traffic delays today as they checked cars and pick ups for who knows what.

Yup took me 90 minutes to travel a distance that normally takes 20 (even in peak hour) along Rama 2...

[winstonc]

Reputedly Mussolini got the trains to run on time. Perhaps Thailand could use a little fascism.

In fact, it may even be preferable to the current kleptocracy.

thats a myth he didnt get them ontime,,sorry,,

[jayboy]

Despite the poor turnout so far I wouldn't discount the possibility of much greater numbers turning out for future demonstrations.There is clearly a wish to apply maximum pressure on the government.I think many have taken comfort in events on Egypt, Turkey and Brazil where middle class elements have taken on an " elected dictatorship".

The problem for the opposition and its street extensions is two fold.Firstly the government has proved to be rather adept at security when it comes to mass protest.Secondly and more importantly the situation in Thailand is not remotely comparable to Egypt for example.

The government while suffering from a mid term dip in support is still popular enough to win a further general election.

Internationally the street opposition or at least its leadership has no credibility,quite important as events in Egypt show.The letter from this leadership to foreign embassies explaining their grievances was perceived as deranged.

Abhisit's position is further weakened by the court's verdict today that the army murdered the civilians at Wat Pathum in 2010.Not helpful for his international image.

[h90]

Despite the poor turnout so far I wouldn't discount the possibility of much greater numbers turning out for future demonstrations.There is clearly a wish to apply maximum pressure on the government.I think many have taken comfort in events on Egypt, Turkey and Brazil where middle class elements have taken on an " elected dictatorship".

The problem for the opposition and its street extensions is two fold.Firstly the government has proved to be rather adept at security when it comes to mass protest.Secondly and more importantly the situation in Thailand is not remotely comparable to Egypt for example.

The government while suffering from a mid term dip in support is still popular enough to win a further general election.

Internationally the street opposition or at least its leadership has no credibility,quite important as events in Egypt show.The letter from this leadership to foreign embassies explaining their grievances was perceived as deranged.

Abhisit's position is further weakened by the court's verdict today that the army murdered the civilians at Wat Pathum in 2010.Not helpful for his international image.

I think there is something wrong with the poor turnout.

It is just too poor to be true. If the Democrats want 100.000 on the street they can mobilize them without sweat in either the south or Bangkok.

Also the other group could to much better.

It seems they are holding back at the moment...don't know why.

1) let the government feel secure and than make something big

2) let the government look like paranoid dictators

3) Have some secret plan that simply doesn't need masses

4) the have no plan and are just disorganized

5) they want the law and wait till Thaksin actually comes back. This now is only to have some news

................

I don't know

[Thai at Heart]

Despite the poor turnout so far I wouldn't discount the possibility of much greater numbers turning out for future demonstrations.There is clearly a wish to apply maximum pressure on the government.I think many have taken comfort in events on Egypt, Turkey and Brazil where middle class elements have taken on an " elected dictatorship".

The problem for the opposition and its street extensions is two fold.Firstly the government has proved to be rather adept at security when it comes to mass protest.Secondly and more importantly the situation in Thailand is not remotely comparable to Egypt for example.

The government while suffering from a mid term dip in support is still popular enough to win a further general election.

Internationally the street opposition or at least its leadership has no credibility,quite important as events in Egypt show.The letter from this leadership to foreign embassies explaining their grievances was perceived as deranged.

Abhisit's position is further weakened by the court's verdict today that the army murdered the civilians at Wat Pathum in 2010.Not helpful for his international image.

I think there is something wrong with the poor turnout.

It is just too poor to be true. If the Democrats want 100.000 on the street they can mobilize them without sweat in either the south or Bangkok.

Also the other group could to much better.

It seems they are holding back at the moment...don't know why.

1) let the government feel secure and than make something big

2) let the government look like paranoid dictators

3) Have some secret plan that simply doesn't need masses

4) the have no plan and are just disorganized

5) they want the law and wait till Thaksin actually comes back. This now is only to have some news

................

I don't know

Aha, a cunning plan.............