Phuket 'hell condo' accused faces many court dates

[webfact]

Phuket 'hell condo' accused faces many court dates
Tanyaluk Sakoot


Pornsawan Condotel, whose residents in January accused developer and manager Pornsawan Reungsiriwarakul of conducting a reign of terror and extortion against them.

PHUKET: -- Prosecutors are having a hard time untangling the various offences allegedly committed by Pornsawan Reungsiriwarakul, arrested in January after owners of a condominium finally revolted against a campaign of terror and extortion they say he had waged against them.

Not least of the prosecutors’ problems is establishing just who he is – Pornsawan has used a variety of aliases, they say, to commit various offences, ranging from kiting cheques to fraud, from giving false information to officials to criminal trespass.

Among aliases he has used, the prosecutors say, are Pornsawan Kongkhawai, Worased Kongkhawai and Worased Reungsiriwarakul. They are still not sure which is his real name.

Pornsawan was arrested on January 15, after complaints from owners and tenants of Pornsawan Condotel, which he developed and managed.

The residents accused him of a variety of offences including criminal trespass, fraud, uttering threats, damaging property and physical violence. Court records list 22 cases against the man, dating back five years.

In seven cases of fraud he was either found not guilty or the case was dismissed for lack of evidence; in two others the prosecution withdrew the charges; but in four more fraud cases the trials are ongoing.

He was also charged five times with kiting cheques. In two cases the prosecution dropped the charges and in a further case the current status according to the Phuket Provincial Court’s computer is “not found”. The other two cases, both from 2009, are ongoing in court.

In 2010 he was arrested on a charge of giving government officials false information and in 2012 he was charged twice more for the same offence. All are in the trial process.

Finally, he was charged with criminal trespass this year. That one, too, is under trial.

That last charge came after owners and tenants of Pornsawan Condotel appealed to Vice-Governor Sommai Preechasilpa for help when power and water for their apartments was cut off because, they said, Pornsawan had failed to pay the bills, despite getting the money from condo occupants.

He was also found to be living in one of the condos without permission from the owner, who had tried without success to eject him.

Pornsawan did not care for criticism, and had his employees make sure this was understood. Occupants said that after they met with V/Gov Sommai they returned to find that cars and motorbikes had been damaged, with windows smashed or acid poured on seats.

It was not the first time he had used such tactics, residents complained. Some said they had been assaulted while others said they were just plain terrified of the man and his cronies.

Although Pornsawan was able to get bail many times in the past, police and the courts appear finally to have lost patience and refused bail after this latest case.

He has been in jail ever since.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-%E2%80%98hell-condo%E2%80%99-accused-faces-many-court-dates-41286.php


-- Phuket News 2013-08-08

[MaxLee]

Phuket, the town of Gangsters...

[NamKangMan]

Could you imagine "owning" a condo in this block, especially being a foreigner.

It's one of many reasons why I chose to rent here.

[CrisRMenumate]

More and more of the true LOS will be coming out and the world will see the pretty image that TAT has been painting all these years ain't so pretty... just sayin'

[Bardeh]

I lived here for six months, and was there when they finally arrested the man. He hid in one of the condos for days while the police waited outside, basically waiting for him to run out of food or water. When they finally burst in, he was apparently cowering in the toilet.

Our electric bills were quite ridiculous, but the power would get cut off at least once a month, sometimes for days at a stretch. When the owners and tenants finally decided to do something about it, their motorbikes seats were slashed, and acid was thrown on their cars. One British guy I talked to was beaten up for having the audacity to challenge Mr. Pornsawan - he owned his condo in the complex and paid his bills separately, but when the power was cut off, it would be for every apartment in the complex. Pornsawan was renting out rooms he didn't own, just hoping the real owners wouldn't come back and discover what was going on. I got out of there as soon as I could - the atmosphere was quite frightening at times, and I feel really sorry for anybody who actually owns one of these condos.

[Suradit69]

Could you imagine "owning" a condo in this block, especially being a foreigner.

It's one of many reasons why I chose to rent here.

That's a bit like saying that you heard of someone who bought a car that turned out to be a lemon so you're only going to rent cars.

I've owned my condo now for about 16 years and have had no extraordinary problems. Considering that for 9 years I used it 3 to 6 months per year and for the last 7 years I've been here full-time, at this point if I had chosen to rent it throughout that period, it would hardly have been to my advantage financially (especially considering the disasters that have been visited upon other investments during that time span). Even in the current real estate glut, if I sold it at a discount to what other units in my building are going for and add in all the rent saved, I'd be way ahead of someone who rented ... not that I intend to sell. Assuming I don't succumb to the farang inability to cope with balconies any time soon and if live another 5 to 10 years or more, it will have been a marvelous investment and its eventual sale will be a substantial benefit to my heir.

Obviously you need to be cautious in investing in a condo, especially in a condo that's still only on the drawing board, but then that's true in most things that involve money. If you think you're going to be here "permanently" and if that's likely to be a long period of time, buying is worth considering even if you do hear of the occasional "condo from hell."

Edited August 9, 2013 by Suradit69

[scorecard]

Could you imagine "owning" a condo in this block, especially being a foreigner.

It's one of many reasons why I chose to rent here.

That's a bit like saying that you heard of someone who bought a car that turned out to be a lemon so you're only going to rent cars.

I've owned my condo now for about 16 years and have had no extraordinary problems. Considering that for 9 years I used it 3 to 6 months per year and for the last 7 years I've been here full-time, at this point if I had chosen to rent it throughout that period, it would hardly have been to my advantage financially (especially considering the disasters that have been visited upon other investments during that time span). Even in the current real estate glut, if I sold it at a discount to what other units in my building are going for and add in all the rent saved, I'd be way ahead of someone who rented ... not that I intend to sell. Assuming I don't succumb to the farang inability to cope with balconies any time soon and if live another 5 to 10 years or more, it will have been a marvelous investment and its eventual sale will be a substantial benefit to my heir.

Obviously you need to be cautious in investing in a condo, especially in a condo that's still only on the drawing board, but then that's true in most things that involve money. If you think you're going to be here "permanently" and if that's likely to be a long period of time, buying is worth considering even if you do hear of the occasional "condo from hell."

And if you do buy a second hand condo (plenty around in all Thai locations) do the research, and especially:

- What's happening in terms of the original developer (does he/she still have control and if yes, is it a good picture or a bad picture)

- If it now has an owners committee, does the committee function properly, professionally, fairly, have good control of paid staff, finances, meet regularly, are meeting open, are discussions, decisions and documentation transparent, etc.

- What's the state of major engineering items for the whole building.

- Is there a sinking fund.

- Are the internal rules being followed (pets, industrial activity inside of rooms, etc).

...

[NamKangMan]

Could you imagine "owning" a condo in this block, especially being a foreigner.

It's one of many reasons why I chose to rent here.

That's a bit like saying that you heard of someone who bought a car that turned out to be a lemon so you're only going to rent cars.

I've owned my condo now for about 16 years and have had no extraordinary problems. Considering that for 9 years I used it 3 to 6 months per year and for the last 7 years I've been here full-time, at this point if I had chosen to rent it throughout that period, it would hardly have been to my advantage financially (especially considering the disasters that have been visited upon other investments during that time span). Even in the current real estate glut, if I sold it at a discount to what other units in my building are going for and add in all the rent saved, I'd be way ahead of someone who rented ... not that I intend to sell. Assuming I don't succumb to the farang inability to cope with balconies any time soon and if live another 5 to 10 years or more, it will have been a marvelous investment and its eventual sale will be a substantial benefit to my heir.

Obviously you need to be cautious in investing in a condo, especially in a condo that's still only on the drawing board, but then that's true in most things that involve money. If you think you're going to be here "permanently" and if that's likely to be a long period of time, buying is worth considering even if you do hear of the occasional "condo from hell."

Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here.

Secondly, just try to put your condo on the market to sell. See how you go. You simply will not be able to sell it. It will sit on the market for years, and that is not an exageration, years. Or, you sell it at a real rock bottom price, and then see how profitable it was.

If you were to pass away tomorrow, you would be leaving a rapidly depreciating asset that will be a problem for the next of kin to sell, even at a lower price. Many expats are leaving the condo to the wife, in the belief she will be taken care of with the money from the sale. They are simply not selling. They are leaving financial hardship, or, she sells it for nothing, further driving the property market down.

If you put the money you spent on your condo in a western bank at around 5% interest, the interest would have covered your rent and your capital is at call, at anytime. Sure, the capital has depreciated, due to inflation, over the years, but not a lot.

You did not mention the ridiculous management fees on condo's and apartments here. In some cases, thousands of baht a month. Then, there is maintainence and repairs, so, there are ongoing costs, when you own a condo.

Now, you have an asset that is depreciating, and is not liquid, and would be extremely hard to convert back to cash, and you are forced to live in an evironment that has changed around you.

I just don't see the reward for the risk, especially since they are building thousands of condos a year here which is driving the property market down.

Many say "rent is dead money." Buying a condo is dead money if you can never sell it, or sell it at a fire sale price, and then add managemen fees, repairs and maitainence.

[pacovl46]

Sounds like he's begging for a proper flogging! Let him have a taste of his own medicine!

[Suradit69]

Could you imagine "owning" a condo in this block, especially being a foreigner.

It's one of many reasons why I chose to rent here.

That's a bit like saying that you heard of someone who bought a car that turned out to be a lemon so you're only going to rent cars.

I've owned my condo now for about 16 years and have had no extraordinary problems. Considering that for 9 years I used it 3 to 6 months per year and for the last 7 years I've been here full-time, at this point if I had chosen to rent it throughout that period, it would hardly have been to my advantage financially (especially considering the disasters that have been visited upon other investments during that time span). Even in the current real estate glut, if I sold it at a discount to what other units in my building are going for and add in all the rent saved, I'd be way ahead of someone who rented ... not that I intend to sell. Assuming I don't succumb to the farang inability to cope with balconies any time soon and if live another 5 to 10 years or more, it will have been a marvelous investment and its eventual sale will be a substantial benefit to my heir.

Obviously you need to be cautious in investing in a condo, especially in a condo that's still only on the drawing board, but then that's true in most things that involve money. If you think you're going to be here "permanently" and if that's likely to be a long period of time, buying is worth considering even if you do hear of the occasional "condo from hell."

Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here.

Secondly, just try to put your condo on the market to sell. See how you go. You simply will not be able to sell it. It will sit on the market for years, and that is not an exageration, years. Or, you sell it at a real rock bottom price, and then see how profitable it was.

If you were to pass away tomorrow, you would be leaving a rapidly depreciating asset that will be a problem for the next of kin to sell, even at a lower price. Many expats are leaving the condo to the wife, in the belief she will be taken care of with the money from the sale. They are simply not selling. They are leaving financial hardship, or, she sells it for nothing, further driving the property market down.

If you put the money you spent on your condo in a western bank at around 5% interest, the interest would have covered your rent and your capital is at call, at anytime. Sure, the capital has depreciated, due to inflation, over the years, but not a lot.

You did not mention the ridiculous management fees on condo's and apartments here. In some cases, thousands of baht a month. Then, there is maintainence and repairs, so, there are ongoing costs, when you own a condo.

Now, you have an asset that is depreciating, and is not liquid, and would be extremely hard to convert back to cash, and you are forced to live in an evironment that has changed around you.

I just don't see the reward for the risk, especially since they are building thousands of condos a year here which is driving the property market down.

Many say "rent is dead money." Buying a condo is dead money if you can never sell it, or sell it at a fire sale price, and then add managemen fees, repairs and maitainence.

"Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here."

So when you buy a car you own the roads it travels on? If I were Thai I wouldn't own the land beneath the condo either.

I have no intention of selling and if I did, whether or not I own the land 15 floors below my condo is not going to effect the ability to sell or the price. Anyway units in my building are selling and/or being rented out. They're not flying off the shelf, but buying & selling is taking place, prices asked are rising as are rents. Location and condition are obviously a factor, but again I'm not selling and I'm not paying rent either.

Buying a condo is not the best idea for everyone, but in my case it has already proved to be a good investment. If I live another 10 years here, it will prove to be an excellent investment. The building is well managed and it is undergoing reasonable levels of maintenance and improvements. Whatever my heir gets from it is a bonus and at that point I will be beyond caring one way or another.

Choosing to buy or rent is dependent on many things. If I were first coming to Thailand now, considering my age and other factors, I would probably choose to rent. I didn't say it was a no-brainer choice for everyone.

Considering the tone of your response, you apparently made poor decisions or were unlucky and are regretting what you did. Your points and experience are well worth thinking about for anyone trying to decide what to do. All I'm saying is that buying can be a good choice and that I have no regrets. If I were to die tomorrow, it was a good decision. If I manage to hang on much longer, it will have been an excellent decision. Certainly I'm happier about my situation than you seem to be about yours.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Suradit69

[stevenl]

Could you imagine "owning" a condo in this block, especially being a foreigner.

It's one of many reasons why I chose to rent here.

That's a bit like saying that you heard of someone who bought a car that turned out to be a lemon so you're only going to rent cars.

I've owned my condo now for about 16 years and have had no extraordinary problems. Considering that for 9 years I used it 3 to 6 months per year and for the last 7 years I've been here full-time, at this point if I had chosen to rent it throughout that period, it would hardly have been to my advantage financially (especially considering the disasters that have been visited upon other investments during that time span). Even in the current real estate glut, if I sold it at a discount to what other units in my building are going for and add in all the rent saved, I'd be way ahead of someone who rented ... not that I intend to sell. Assuming I don't succumb to the farang inability to cope with balconies any time soon and if live another 5 to 10 years or more, it will have been a marvelous investment and its eventual sale will be a substantial benefit to my heir.

Obviously you need to be cautious in investing in a condo, especially in a condo that's still only on the drawing board, but then that's true in most things that involve money. If you think you're going to be here "permanently" and if that's likely to be a long period of time, buying is worth considering even if you do hear of the occasional "condo from hell."

Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here.

Secondly, just try to put your condo on the market to sell. See how you go. You simply will not be able to sell it. It will sit on the market for years, and that is not an exageration, years. Or, you sell it at a real rock bottom price, and then see how profitable it was.

If you were to pass away tomorrow, you would be leaving a rapidly depreciating asset that will be a problem for the next of kin to sell, even at a lower price. Many expats are leaving the condo to the wife, in the belief she will be taken care of with the money from the sale. They are simply not selling. They are leaving financial hardship, or, she sells it for nothing, further driving the property market down.

If you put the money you spent on your condo in a western bank at around 5% interest, the interest would have covered your rent and your capital is at call, at anytime. Sure, the capital has depreciated, due to inflation, over the years, but not a lot.

You did not mention the ridiculous management fees on condo's and apartments here. In some cases, thousands of baht a month. Then, there is maintainence and repairs, so, there are ongoing costs, when you own a condo.

Now, you have an asset that is depreciating, and is not liquid, and would be extremely hard to convert back to cash, and you are forced to live in an evironment that has changed around you.

I just don't see the reward for the risk, especially since they are building thousands of condos a year here which is driving the property market down.

Many say "rent is dead money." Buying a condo is dead money if you can never sell it, or sell it at a fire sale price, and then add managemen fees, repairs and maitainence.

So when you buy a car you own the roads it travels on?

That's why he won't buy a car here, the owner of the road might prevent him using it.

[Pinot]

Reason number 317 never to buy a place in LOS.

[marell]

Could you imagine "owning" a condo in this block, especially being a foreigner.

It's one of many reasons why I chose to rent here.

That's a bit like saying that you heard of someone who bought a car that turned out to be a lemon so you're only going to rent cars.

I've owned my condo now for about 16 years and have had no extraordinary problems. Considering that for 9 years I used it 3 to 6 months per year and for the last 7 years I've been here full-time, at this point if I had chosen to rent it throughout that period, it would hardly have been to my advantage financially (especially considering the disasters that have been visited upon other investments during that time span). Even in the current real estate glut, if I sold it at a discount to what other units in my building are going for and add in all the rent saved, I'd be way ahead of someone who rented ... not that I intend to sell. Assuming I don't succumb to the farang inability to cope with balconies any time soon and if live another 5 to 10 years or more, it will have been a marvelous investment and its eventual sale will be a substantial benefit to my heir.

Obviously you need to be cautious in investing in a condo, especially in a condo that's still only on the drawing board, but then that's true in most things that involve money. If you think you're going to be here "permanently" and if that's likely to be a long period of time, buying is worth considering even if you do hear of the occasional "condo from hell."

Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here.

Secondly, just try to put your condo on the market to sell. See how you go. You simply will not be able to sell it. It will sit on the market for years, and that is not an exageration, years. Or, you sell it at a real rock bottom price, and then see how profitable it was.

If you were to pass away tomorrow, you would be leaving a rapidly depreciating asset that will be a problem for the next of kin to sell, even at a lower price. Many expats are leaving the condo to the wife, in the belief she will be taken care of with the money from the sale. They are simply not selling. They are leaving financial hardship, or, she sells it for nothing, further driving the property market down.

If you put the money you spent on your condo in a western bank at around 5% interest, the interest would have covered your rent and your capital is at call, at anytime. Sure, the capital has depreciated, due to inflation, over the years, but not a lot.

You did not mention the ridiculous management fees on condo's and apartments here. In some cases, thousands of baht a month. Then, there is maintainence and repairs, so, there are ongoing costs, when you own a condo.

Now, you have an asset that is depreciating, and is not liquid, and would be extremely hard to convert back to cash, and you are forced to live in an evironment that has changed around you.

I just don't see the reward for the risk, especially since they are building thousands of condos a year here which is driving the property market down.

Many say "rent is dead money." Buying a condo is dead money if you can never sell it, or sell it at a fire sale price, and then add managemen fees, repairs and maitainence.

Western banks are paying 5% interest?

[moe666]

A friend here in CM was sued for defamation by the owner of his condo building even though all that was said about the owner was true.

Edited August 9, 2013 by moe666

[nosatisfaction]

Could you imagine "owning" a condo in this block, especially being a foreigner.

It's one of many reasons why I chose to rent here.

That's a bit like saying that you heard of someone who bought a car that turned out to be a lemon so you're only going to rent cars.

I've owned my condo now for about 16 years and have had no extraordinary problems. Considering that for 9 years I used it 3 to 6 months per year and for the last 7 years I've been here full-time, at this point if I had chosen to rent it throughout that period, it would hardly have been to my advantage financially (especially considering the disasters that have been visited upon other investments during that time span). Even in the current real estate glut, if I sold it at a discount to what other units in my building are going for and add in all the rent saved, I'd be way ahead of someone who rented ... not that I intend to sell. Assuming I don't succumb to the farang inability to cope with balconies any time soon and if live another 5 to 10 years or more, it will have been a marvelous investment and its eventual sale will be a substantial benefit to my heir.

Obviously you need to be cautious in investing in a condo, especially in a condo that's still only on the drawing board, but then that's true in most things that involve money. If you think you're going to be here "permanently" and if that's likely to be a long period of time, buying is worth considering even if you do hear of the occasional "condo from hell."

Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here.

Secondly, just try to put your condo on the market to sell. See how you go. You simply will not be able to sell it. It will sit on the market for years, and that is not an exageration, years. Or, you sell it at a real rock bottom price, and then see how profitable it was.

If you were to pass away tomorrow, you would be leaving a rapidly depreciating asset that will be a problem for the next of kin to sell, even at a lower price. Many expats are leaving the condo to the wife, in the belief she will be taken care of with the money from the sale. They are simply not selling. They are leaving financial hardship, or, she sells it for nothing, further driving the property market down.

If you put the money you spent on your condo in a western bank at around 5% interest, the interest would have covered your rent and your capital is at call, at anytime. Sure, the capital has depreciated, due to inflation, over the years, but not a lot.

You did not mention the ridiculous management fees on condo's and apartments here. In some cases, thousands of baht a month. Then, there is maintainence and repairs, so, there are ongoing costs, when you own a condo.

Now, you have an asset that is depreciating, and is not liquid, and would be extremely hard to convert back to cash, and you are forced to live in an evironment that has changed around you.

I just don't see the reward for the risk, especially since they are building thousands of condos a year here which is driving the property market down.

Many say "rent is dead money." Buying a condo is dead money if you can never sell it, or sell it at a fire sale price, and then add managemen fees, repairs and maitainence.

Western banks are paying 5% interest?

The ones that don't charge you for sending money from abroad to Thailand, one of last week's topics

555555555555555

[monkeycountry]

Could you imagine "owning" a condo in this block, especially being a foreigner.

It's one of many reasons why I chose to rent here.

That's a bit like saying that you heard of someone who bought a car that turned out to be a lemon so you're only going to rent cars.

I've owned my condo now for about 16 years and have had no extraordinary problems. Considering that for 9 years I used it 3 to 6 months per year and for the last 7 years I've been here full-time, at this point if I had chosen to rent it throughout that period, it would hardly have been to my advantage financially (especially considering the disasters that have been visited upon other investments during that time span). Even in the current real estate glut, if I sold it at a discount to what other units in my building are going for and add in all the rent saved, I'd be way ahead of someone who rented ... not that I intend to sell. Assuming I don't succumb to the farang inability to cope with balconies any time soon and if live another 5 to 10 years or more, it will have been a marvelous investment and its eventual sale will be a substantial benefit to my heir.

Obviously you need to be cautious in investing in a condo, especially in a condo that's still only on the drawing board, but then that's true in most things that involve money. If you think you're going to be here "permanently" and if that's likely to be a long period of time, buying is worth considering even if you do hear of the occasional "condo from hell."

First of all, economy is not that simple. You have to consider that had you rented the condo you could instead have invested the money you paid for the condo and made a profit on that investment. Then comes inflation and interest if the money is borrowed and so on. It is quite a complicated calculation, and basically depends on how much the condo has appreciated or depreciated during the time you owned it.

Secondly, you may have been smart or lucky with your condo, and I am glad it seems to have worked out for you. But many people are not so lucky, which is what I think NamKangMan was getting at. And in Thailand, if you end up being one of the unlucky ones, you are really screwed due to the incompetent justice system.

I am not against buying property in Thailand, not at all. I am simply saying that if you do, and things go wrong, then in most cases you are really on your own, and even if you do manage to get a court to help you, it can easily take 10+ years before it ends - and the process and outcome of the court case may very well make no sense whatsoever to a westerner.

[bangon04]

"Although Pornsawan was able to get bail many times in the past, police and the courts appear finally to have lost patience and refused bail after this latest case"

wow so it can happen......if you run out of influential friends

[monkeycountry]

Could you imagine "owning" a condo in this block, especially being a foreigner.

It's one of many reasons why I chose to rent here.

That's a bit like saying that you heard of someone who bought a car that turned out to be a lemon so you're only going to rent cars.

I've owned my condo now for about 16 years and have had no extraordinary problems. Considering that for 9 years I used it 3 to 6 months per year and for the last 7 years I've been here full-time, at this point if I had chosen to rent it throughout that period, it would hardly have been to my advantage financially (especially considering the disasters that have been visited upon other investments during that time span). Even in the current real estate glut, if I sold it at a discount to what other units in my building are going for and add in all the rent saved, I'd be way ahead of someone who rented ... not that I intend to sell. Assuming I don't succumb to the farang inability to cope with balconies any time soon and if live another 5 to 10 years or more, it will have been a marvelous investment and its eventual sale will be a substantial benefit to my heir.

Obviously you need to be cautious in investing in a condo, especially in a condo that's still only on the drawing board, but then that's true in most things that involve money. If you think you're going to be here "permanently" and if that's likely to be a long period of time, buying is worth considering even if you do hear of the occasional "condo from hell."

Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here.

Secondly, just try to put your condo on the market to sell. See how you go. You simply will not be able to sell it. It will sit on the market for years, and that is not an exageration, years. Or, you sell it at a real rock bottom price, and then see how profitable it was.

If you were to pass away tomorrow, you would be leaving a rapidly depreciating asset that will be a problem for the next of kin to sell, even at a lower price. Many expats are leaving the condo to the wife, in the belief she will be taken care of with the money from the sale. They are simply not selling. They are leaving financial hardship, or, she sells it for nothing, further driving the property market down.

If you put the money you spent on your condo in a western bank at around 5% interest, the interest would have covered your rent and your capital is at call, at anytime. Sure, the capital has depreciated, due to inflation, over the years, but not a lot.

You did not mention the ridiculous management fees on condo's and apartments here. In some cases, thousands of baht a month. Then, there is maintainence and repairs, so, there are ongoing costs, when you own a condo.

Now, you have an asset that is depreciating, and is not liquid, and would be extremely hard to convert back to cash, and you are forced to live in an evironment that has changed around you.

I just don't see the reward for the risk, especially since they are building thousands of condos a year here which is driving the property market down.

Many say "rent is dead money." Buying a condo is dead money if you can never sell it, or sell it at a fire sale price, and then add managemen fees, repairs and maitainence.

Western banks are paying 5% interest?

Probably not, but there are plenty of ways to make 5% ROI in Thailand that are just as safe as buying a condo. As an example, and sticking with property, put you money in some form of property fund, which will give you at least 5% dividend after tax, often more. Sure, the value of the assets in the fund can depreciate, but so can the value of your condo. There are obviously many other more or less risky ways to make a return on your money. Interest in a bank account or government bonds may be the safest ones, much safer than buying a condo, but also the ones with the lowest yield.

[SteveBarringtonGilmartin]

I put a deposit of 160.000 Baht down on a 2 bedroom condo being built back in 2009, I was married at the time, but before the condo was finished my wife and I separated, so I decided I would look for something smaller as I was now on my own, In the contract it stated that I could have my deposit returned once the management had found a new buyer, two years later and still no buyer, so I decided to go and have a look for myself, I saw a Thai guy enter my apartment, I asked the management why they had told me it was unsold when I could see it was occupied, "oh yes it is sold now but new owner can not get money from bank so cannot give you" why did you give him the keys without first getting a deposit from him I asked, "The condo builder know him he good man"

I don't care if he is a saint give me back my deposit it is owed by you now, I replied.

eventually the manager agreed to pay me back 20.000 baht a month until paid saying the new owner had agreed to pay this to the office, Bullshit, Bullshit, and more Bullshit, but in LOS getting your money back even in bits is a victory, four months later and 80.000 baht surprisingly paid back i get a call from the office telling me not to come for the next payment as they had received a letter from the local government, saying the condos were built without the proper paperwork, they told me that all the owners were now having to go through the court to keep there condos, so I would have to do the same to get the rest of my money back, Oh the scams in LOS so many and at all levels.

Last I heard the tenants were still waiting for a court hearing and in the meantime their electric and water supply had been cut off.

I dropped out, more than a little pleased that I had got something back from the manager who for sure had pocketed the deposit from my condos new owner.

Now I rent much less risk!!

[NamKangMan]

Could you imagine "owning" a condo in this block, especially being a foreigner.

It's one of many reasons why I chose to rent here.

That's a bit like saying that you heard of someone who bought a car that turned out to be a lemon so you're only going to rent cars.

I've owned my condo now for about 16 years and have had no extraordinary problems. Considering that for 9 years I used it 3 to 6 months per year and for the last 7 years I've been here full-time, at this point if I had chosen to rent it throughout that period, it would hardly have been to my advantage financially (especially considering the disasters that have been visited upon other investments during that time span). Even in the current real estate glut, if I sold it at a discount to what other units in my building are going for and add in all the rent saved, I'd be way ahead of someone who rented ... not that I intend to sell. Assuming I don't succumb to the farang inability to cope with balconies any time soon and if live another 5 to 10 years or more, it will have been a marvelous investment and its eventual sale will be a substantial benefit to my heir.

Obviously you need to be cautious in investing in a condo, especially in a condo that's still only on the drawing board, but then that's true in most things that involve money. If you think you're going to be here "permanently" and if that's likely to be a long period of time, buying is worth considering even if you do hear of the occasional "condo from hell."

Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here.

Secondly, just try to put your condo on the market to sell. See how you go. You simply will not be able to sell it. It will sit on the market for years, and that is not an exageration, years. Or, you sell it at a real rock bottom price, and then see how profitable it was.

If you were to pass away tomorrow, you would be leaving a rapidly depreciating asset that will be a problem for the next of kin to sell, even at a lower price. Many expats are leaving the condo to the wife, in the belief she will be taken care of with the money from the sale. They are simply not selling. They are leaving financial hardship, or, she sells it for nothing, further driving the property market down.

If you put the money you spent on your condo in a western bank at around 5% interest, the interest would have covered your rent and your capital is at call, at anytime. Sure, the capital has depreciated, due to inflation, over the years, but not a lot.

You did not mention the ridiculous management fees on condo's and apartments here. In some cases, thousands of baht a month. Then, there is maintainence and repairs, so, there are ongoing costs, when you own a condo.

Now, you have an asset that is depreciating, and is not liquid, and would be extremely hard to convert back to cash, and you are forced to live in an evironment that has changed around you.

I just don't see the reward for the risk, especially since they are building thousands of condos a year here which is driving the property market down.

Many say "rent is dead money." Buying a condo is dead money if you can never sell it, or sell it at a fire sale price, and then add managemen fees, repairs and maitainence.

"Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here."

So when you buy a car you own the roads it travels on? If I were Thai I wouldn't own the land beneath the condo either.

I have no intention of selling and if I did, whether or not I own the land 15 floors below my condo is not going to effect the ability to sell or the price. Anyway units in my building are selling and/or being rented out. They're not flying off the shelf, but buying & selling is taking place, prices asked are rising as are rents. Location and condition are obviously a factor, but again I'm not selling and I'm not paying rent either.

Buying a condo is not the best idea for everyone, but in my case it has already proved to be a good investment. If I live another 10 years here, it will prove to be an excellent investment. The building is well managed and it is undergoing reasonable levels of maintenance and improvements. Whatever my heir gets from it is a bonus and at that point I will be beyond caring one way or another.

Choosing to buy or rent is dependent on many things. If I were first coming to Thailand now, considering my age and other factors, I would probably choose to rent. I didn't say it was a no-brainer choice for everyone.

Considering the tone of your response, you apparently made poor decisions or were unlucky and are regretting what you did. Your points and experience are well worth thinking about for anyone trying to decide what to do. All I'm saying is that buying can be a good choice and that I have no regrets. If I were to die tomorrow, it was a good decision. If I manage to hang on much longer, it will have been an excellent decision. Certainly I'm happier about my situation than you seem to be about yours.

It seems you are happy only because you are "not paying rent." The old "rent is dead money" syndrome.

The true results of your "investment" will not be known until you sell, and many are simply not selling, and the more they build, the harder it will be for you to sell, and the further the property market will decline as there becomes an oversupply here. In my opinion, we are already at that point.

Tell me about your management fees.

Tell me about your condo block's decreasing 30 year land lease.

Tell me about the poor construction methods and materials here and what maintenance and repairs you have had to pay for.

Tell me about your new neighbours - you know, the ones that you MUST live next to.

Tell me about the other constructions that have been built around you, after you purchaed.

Tell me that you know for certain that yor condo sits on land that has a proper land tilte.

Tell me that you know for certain at least 51% of the condos are Thai owned - then tell me how they can out vote you at anytime for decisions about the block.

Tell me how a change to visa laws could see you unable to live in your condo.

ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC

Each to their own. You are happy to buy something you never truly own, and I'm happy to leave that capital in western bank and let the interest pay my rent here, and some.

In relation to the roads here - the tuk-tuk drivers own the roads here - you know that. :)

In relation to myself: I am single, never had a business here, never sent money for sick buffalo, never purchased property and have no intention to "invest" in a 3rd World Country. I consider these to be wise decisions, rather than "poor decisions." My money and investments remain in western countries backed up by proper laws and judicial systems.

As they say, no reward without risk. I just don't need the risk Thailand presents to me when my money is already safely rewarded in western countries.

[NamKangMan]

@ stevenl

I haven't bought a car here because parking is a problem. We all know why - it's been said before.

I'm sure you know there are many privately owned roads here. One that comes to mind is Soi SansSabai - 20 baht to park on that Soi.

Guess what, the owner actually could block off the road if they wanted to.

[patongphil]

"Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here."

Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here.

Secondly, just try to put your condo on the market to sell. See how you go. You simply will not be able to sell it. It will sit on the market for years, and that is not an exageration, years. Or, you sell it at a real rock bottom price, and then see how profitable it was.

If you were to pass away tomorrow, you would be leaving a rapidly depreciating asset that will be a problem for the next of kin to sell, even at a lower price. Many expats are leaving the condo to the wife, in the belief she will be taken care of with the money from the sale. They are simply not selling. They are leaving financial hardship, or, she sells it for nothing, further driving the property market down.

If you put the money you spent on your condo in a western bank at around 5% interest, the interest would have covered your rent and your capital is at call, at anytime. Sure, the capital has depreciated, due to inflation, over the years, but not a lot.

You did not mention the ridiculous management fees on condo's and apartments here. In some cases, thousands of baht a month. Then, there is maintainence and repairs, so, there are ongoing costs, when you own a condo.

Now, you have an asset that is depreciating, and is not liquid, and would be extremely hard to convert back to cash, and you are forced to live in an evironment that has changed around you.

I just don't see the reward for the risk, especially since they are building thousands of condos a year here which is driving the property market down.

Many say "rent is dead money." Buying a condo is dead money if you can never sell it, or sell it at a fire sale price, and then add managemen fees, repairs and maitainence.

So when you buy a car you own the roads it travels on? If I were Thai I wouldn't own the land beneath the condo either.

I have no intention of selling and if I did, whether or not I own the land 15 floors below my condo is not going to effect the ability to sell or the price. Anyway units in my building are selling and/or being rented out. They're not flying off the shelf, but buying & selling is taking place, prices asked are rising as are rents. Location and condition are obviously a factor, but again I'm not selling and I'm not paying rent either.

Buying a condo is not the best idea for everyone, but in my case it has already proved to be a good investment. If I live another 10 years here, it will prove to be an excellent investment. The building is well managed and it is undergoing reasonable levels of maintenance and improvements. Whatever my heir gets from it is a bonus and at that point I will be beyond caring one way or another.

Choosing to buy or rent is dependent on many things. If I were first coming to Thailand now, considering my age and other factors, I would probably choose to rent. I didn't say it was a no-brainer choice for everyone.

Considering the tone of your response, you apparently made poor decisions or were unlucky and are regretting what you did. Your points and experience are well worth thinking about for anyone trying to decide what to do. All I'm saying is that buying can be a good choice and that I have no regrets. If I were to die tomorrow, it was a good decision. If I manage to hang on much longer, it will have been an excellent decision. Certainly I'm happier about my situation than you seem to be about yours.

It seems you are happy only because you are "not paying rent." The old "rent is dead money" syndrome.

The true results of your "investment" will not be known until you sell, and many are simply not selling, and the more they build, the harder it will be for you to sell, and the further the property market will decline as there becomes an oversupply here. In my opinion, we are already at that point.

Tell me about your management fees.

Tell me about your condo block's decreasing 30 year land lease.

Tell me about the poor construction methods and materials here and what maintenance and repairs you have had to pay for.

Tell me about your new neighbours - you know, the ones that you MUST live next to.

Tell me about the other constructions that have been built around you, after you purchaed.

Tell me that you know for certain that yor condo sits on land that has a proper land tilte.

Tell me that you know for certain at least 51% of the condos are Thai owned - then tell me how they can out vote you at anytime for decisions about the block.

Tell me how a change to visa laws could see you unable to live in your condo.

ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC

Each to their own. You are happy to buy something you never truly own, and I'm happy to leave that capital in western bank and let the interest pay my rent here, and some.

In relation to the roads here - the tuk-tuk drivers own the roads here - you know that.

In relation to myself: I am single, never had a business here, never sent money for sick buffalo, never purchased property and have no intention to "invest" in a 3rd World Country. I consider these to be wise decisions, rather than "poor decisions." My money and investments remain in western countries backed up by proper laws and judicial systems.

As they say, no reward without risk. I just don't need the risk Thailand presents to me when my money is already safely rewarded in western countries.

Wow your glass rally is half empty.

[NamKangMan]

"Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here."

Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here.

Secondly, just try to put your condo on the market to sell. See how you go. You simply will not be able to sell it. It will sit on the market for years, and that is not an exageration, years. Or, you sell it at a real rock bottom price, and then see how profitable it was.

If you were to pass away tomorrow, you would be leaving a rapidly depreciating asset that will be a problem for the next of kin to sell, even at a lower price. Many expats are leaving the condo to the wife, in the belief she will be taken care of with the money from the sale. They are simply not selling. They are leaving financial hardship, or, she sells it for nothing, further driving the property market down.

If you put the money you spent on your condo in a western bank at around 5% interest, the interest would have covered your rent and your capital is at call, at anytime. Sure, the capital has depreciated, due to inflation, over the years, but not a lot.

You did not mention the ridiculous management fees on condo's and apartments here. In some cases, thousands of baht a month. Then, there is maintainence and repairs, so, there are ongoing costs, when you own a condo.

Now, you have an asset that is depreciating, and is not liquid, and would be extremely hard to convert back to cash, and you are forced to live in an evironment that has changed around you.

I just don't see the reward for the risk, especially since they are building thousands of condos a year here which is driving the property market down.

Many say "rent is dead money." Buying a condo is dead money if you can never sell it, or sell it at a fire sale price, and then add managemen fees, repairs and maitainence.

So when you buy a car you own the roads it travels on? If I were Thai I wouldn't own the land beneath the condo either.

I have no intention of selling and if I did, whether or not I own the land 15 floors below my condo is not going to effect the ability to sell or the price. Anyway units in my building are selling and/or being rented out. They're not flying off the shelf, but buying & selling is taking place, prices asked are rising as are rents. Location and condition are obviously a factor, but again I'm not selling and I'm not paying rent either.

Buying a condo is not the best idea for everyone, but in my case it has already proved to be a good investment. If I live another 10 years here, it will prove to be an excellent investment. The building is well managed and it is undergoing reasonable levels of maintenance and improvements. Whatever my heir gets from it is a bonus and at that point I will be beyond caring one way or another.

Choosing to buy or rent is dependent on many things. If I were first coming to Thailand now, considering my age and other factors, I would probably choose to rent. I didn't say it was a no-brainer choice for everyone.

Considering the tone of your response, you apparently made poor decisions or were unlucky and are regretting what you did. Your points and experience are well worth thinking about for anyone trying to decide what to do. All I'm saying is that buying can be a good choice and that I have no regrets. If I were to die tomorrow, it was a good decision. If I manage to hang on much longer, it will have been an excellent decision. Certainly I'm happier about my situation than you seem to be about yours.

It seems you are happy only because you are "not paying rent." The old "rent is dead money" syndrome.

The true results of your "investment" will not be known until you sell, and many are simply not selling, and the more they build, the harder it will be for you to sell, and the further the property market will decline as there becomes an oversupply here. In my opinion, we are already at that point.

Tell me about your management fees.

Tell me about your condo block's decreasing 30 year land lease.

Tell me about the poor construction methods and materials here and what maintenance and repairs you have had to pay for.

Tell me about your new neighbours - you know, the ones that you MUST live next to.

Tell me about the other constructions that have been built around you, after you purchaed.

Tell me that you know for certain that yor condo sits on land that has a proper land tilte.

Tell me that you know for certain at least 51% of the condos are Thai owned - then tell me how they can out vote you at anytime for decisions about the block.

Tell me how a change to visa laws could see you unable to live in your condo.

ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC

Each to their own. You are happy to buy something you never truly own, and I'm happy to leave that capital in western bank and let the interest pay my rent here, and some.

In relation to the roads here - the tuk-tuk drivers own the roads here - you know that.

In relation to myself: I am single, never had a business here, never sent money for sick buffalo, never purchased property and have no intention to "invest" in a 3rd World Country. I consider these to be wise decisions, rather than "poor decisions." My money and investments remain in western countries backed up by proper laws and judicial systems.

As they say, no reward without risk. I just don't need the risk Thailand presents to me when my money is already safely rewarded in western countries.

Wow your glass rally is half empty.

I view it as half full, actually.

I enjoy Phuket and Thailand for all the positives it has to offer, without any risk to my financial security. I make my money in the west, and spend little of here.

I gather you have purchased property here. :) :)

[patongphil]

"Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here."

Firstly, a foreigner can own a car here - 100% in their name. This can not be said of a condo that sits on Thai owned land. So, no, it's not like buying/renting a car here.

Secondly, just try to put your condo on the market to sell. See how you go. You simply will not be able to sell it. It will sit on the market for years, and that is not an exageration, years. Or, you sell it at a real rock bottom price, and then see how profitable it was.

If you were to pass away tomorrow, you would be leaving a rapidly depreciating asset that will be a problem for the next of kin to sell, even at a lower price. Many expats are leaving the condo to the wife, in the belief she will be taken care of with the money from the sale. They are simply not selling. They are leaving financial hardship, or, she sells it for nothing, further driving the property market down.

If you put the money you spent on your condo in a western bank at around 5% interest, the interest would have covered your rent and your capital is at call, at anytime. Sure, the capital has depreciated, due to inflation, over the years, but not a lot.

You did not mention the ridiculous management fees on condo's and apartments here. In some cases, thousands of baht a month. Then, there is maintainence and repairs, so, there are ongoing costs, when you own a condo.

Now, you have an asset that is depreciating, and is not liquid, and would be extremely hard to convert back to cash, and you are forced to live in an evironment that has changed around you.

I just don't see the reward for the risk, especially since they are building thousands of condos a year here which is driving the property market down.

Many say "rent is dead money." Buying a condo is dead money if you can never sell it, or sell it at a fire sale price, and then add managemen fees, repairs and maitainence.

So when you buy a car you own the roads it travels on? If I were Thai I wouldn't own the land beneath the condo either.

I have no intention of selling and if I did, whether or not I own the land 15 floors below my condo is not going to effect the ability to sell or the price. Anyway units in my building are selling and/or being rented out. They're not flying off the shelf, but buying & selling is taking place, prices asked are rising as are rents. Location and condition are obviously a factor, but again I'm not selling and I'm not paying rent either.

Buying a condo is not the best idea for everyone, but in my case it has already proved to be a good investment. If I live another 10 years here, it will prove to be an excellent investment. The building is well managed and it is undergoing reasonable levels of maintenance and improvements. Whatever my heir gets from it is a bonus and at that point I will be beyond caring one way or another.

Choosing to buy or rent is dependent on many things. If I were first coming to Thailand now, considering my age and other factors, I would probably choose to rent. I didn't say it was a no-brainer choice for everyone.

Considering the tone of your response, you apparently made poor decisions or were unlucky and are regretting what you did. Your points and experience are well worth thinking about for anyone trying to decide what to do. All I'm saying is that buying can be a good choice and that I have no regrets. If I were to die tomorrow, it was a good decision. If I manage to hang on much longer, it will have been an excellent decision. Certainly I'm happier about my situation than you seem to be about yours.

It seems you are happy only because you are "not paying rent." The old "rent is dead money" syndrome.

The true results of your "investment" will not be known until you sell, and many are simply not selling, and the more they build, the harder it will be for you to sell, and the further the property market will decline as there becomes an oversupply here. In my opinion, we are already at that point.

Tell me about your management fees.

Tell me about your condo block's decreasing 30 year land lease.

Tell me about the poor construction methods and materials here and what maintenance and repairs you have had to pay for.

Tell me about your new neighbours - you know, the ones that you MUST live next to.

Tell me about the other constructions that have been built around you, after you purchaed.

Tell me that you know for certain that yor condo sits on land that has a proper land tilte.

Tell me that you know for certain at least 51% of the condos are Thai owned - then tell me how they can out vote you at anytime for decisions about the block.

Tell me how a change to visa laws could see you unable to live in your condo.

ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC

Each to their own. You are happy to buy something you never truly own, and I'm happy to leave that capital in western bank and let the interest pay my rent here, and some.

In relation to the roads here - the tuk-tuk drivers own the roads here - you know that.

In relation to myself: I am single, never had a business here, never sent money for sick buffalo, never purchased property and have no intention to "invest" in a 3rd World Country. I consider these to be wise decisions, rather than "poor decisions." My money and investments remain in western countries backed up by proper laws and judicial systems.

As they say, no reward without risk. I just don't need the risk Thailand presents to me when my money is already safely rewarded in western countries.

Wow your glass rally is half empty.

I view it as half full, actually.

I enjoy Phuket and Thailand for all the positives it has to offer, without any risk to my financial security. I make my money in the west, and spend little of here.

I gather you have purchased property here.

Yes I have

[CrisRMenumate]

A friend here in CM was sued for defamation by the owner of his condo building even though all that was said about the owner was true.

The criminal defamation law relates to the damage caused by what is said, not necessarily if it is true or not. If you owed me 1 million and I complained to all and sundry that you are a schmuck for not paying me the 1 million you owed me, you could sue for defamation (criminal case) for the damage caused to your reputation and probably sue for much more than the 1 million you owed to me (if you have a good lawyer). Its a wonderful law left over to ensure that people with money can always put down people who don't by being able to sue them if they complain about anything. Keeps the Ants under control while the Locusts feed off the land. Just sayin'