What's Wrong with Renting?

[hellodolly]

When the Wife's mother dies there is the possibility that I may move on to some where else. The wife likes Bali.

You are about 40 years too late for Bali. Bali in the 70's was the shang-ri-la that everyone that goes there now is looking for. Now the island is just a 24 hour traffic jam and the beautiful Balinese people have lost just about everything.

For you this is true.

But that does not make it so for every one, As I said my wife loves it. I also like it. 40 years ago you probably threw a pack pack on and traveled all over do you still approach life the same. I know I don't

When I first went there with a back pack 20 years ago it was different than today. I still loved it. Today like the Island I am different. Age does that to you.

Edited August 24, 2013 by hellodolly

[bushwacker]

IMHO .... you would be an idiot to rent and not buy. Buy and own your house (property) and enjoy all the security that comes with it.

JUST A FREAKEN MINUTE .... I CANNOT OWN! So I am actually renting, but putting the money in as if I were buying. Great now I have a lose lose situation.

[Cuban]

...I followed everything you wrote Except 'natural order'...

I'm really wanting to know about a long term lease cause in many cases here in LOS one would be foolish to dump a wad of cash where monthly trickles will do.

natural order smacks of doo doo....no dig on you. I really want to know.

The natural order is two people make a commitment to each other and live together raising children, as parents when they die their worldly goods pass down a generation, or two, to their off-spring. It has been this way since the prized possessions were axe-heads and the magic of fire.

Sure if a person can only establish a temporary relationship that they fear will break down at any moment they have to be mobile in terms of travel and property arrangements; yes I'm sure renting an apartment, car and companionship seems like a viable solution.

Other people choose wisely and make long term commitments.

Why not leave stocks and bonds, mutual funds, etc. that you can keep in YOUR NAME while you are alive and YOU can collect the dividends, coupons, etc?

If you have already "given it away" you're really not leaving anything are you?

Indeed it is the modern human way to get on and progress by buying and selling, and has been for maybe a few thousand years, so is well established. Anything that is owned can be sold on or leased.

“Buy land, they're not making it any more”. Mark Twain.

If you buy land that is worthless or you over-pay for it you are the fool that is easily parted from your money, if you buy farmland with road access and water you will do well, likewise a property in a quiet location that offers space and security that can be rented to people that either can not afford their own land and home or can not make that commitment then you can profit from their situation.

The risk/return on property investment can be very attractive compared to shares in Enron or TWA stock, clearly an early investment in Microsoft would do better than a shop-house in bad back end Soi, but a shop-house on Pattaya Second Road would probably offer a better return in both annual income and underlying capital value.

Like anything you need to pick wisely, can you tell which oil company is honest to the core?

In any investment portfolio it is wise to spread risk across asset classes and one of them should be land.

(Sorry to correct your punctuation, I really have a thing about that!)

[ignis]

Everyone has there own idea and needs.......... myself there was no question, have a house built out in the sticks here, well had it build in a very small Village..

So owning = I can do what I want when I want, paint what colour I want, change things, build extra, knock down a wall or 2........ do not have to ask anyone..... I have 8 dogs, no problem, have over 200 Koi Fish [will have a lot more in the next 2 months but that is a different project + shop]...

Only this week have had the Bank come and Value the house [Possible need a bit of a loan for the shop project] value now is 590,000 baht more than 9 years ago.... [moved in 1-08-04, house planed and started in 2003.]

mostly NONE of the above can or could be done if Renting.......... on a side note to rent something around the size I have per month = by now would have paid the same as having this house built.. and nothing to show for it...

There is a lot of things people need, to me here and Thailand is my homes for my remaining years, so renting would have been pointless. myself cannot see the point in buying a Condo, I am not a City person, if no other option would only rent, but would never have moved here if that was the only option..

If I could go back and start over 10 years ago, changes would have been a bigger garden, and have the house shell only built and do the rest myself..

[mesquite]

Everyone has there own idea and needs.......... myself there was no question, have a house built out in the sticks here, well had it build in a very small Village..

So owning = I can do what I want when I want, paint what colour I want, change things, build extra, knock down a wall or 2........ do not have to ask anyone..... I have 8 dogs, no problem, have over 200 Koi Fish [will have a lot more in the next 2 months but that is a different project + shop]...

Only this week have had the Bank come and Value the house [Possible need a bit of a loan for the shop project] value now is 590,000 baht more than 9 years ago.... [moved in 1-08-04, house planed and started in 2003.]

mostly NONE of the above can or could be done if Renting.......... on a side note to rent something around the size I have per month = by now would have paid the same as having this house built.. and nothing to show for it...

There is a lot of things people need, to me here and Thailand is my homes for my remaining years, so renting would have been pointless. myself cannot see the point in buying a Condo, I am not a City person, if no other option would only rent, but would never have moved here if that was the only option..

If I could go back and start over 10 years ago, changes would have been a bigger garden, and have the house shell only built and do the rest myself..

Except...unless you are Thai, you don't own it.

[NeverSure]

There are lots of ways to store wealth and most are more liquid than real estate. For me buying would be a condo since I can't own land. Try to sell a condo in this market hahaha.

No way. Rent.

[dennisgb45]

I have been renting here for 5 1/2 years. The rent is cheap. BUT...There is nothing like owning your own place (OK>>>Your wife owning her own place). The potential for your property to appreciate is the main factor I would buy. A house I rented in 2010 was purchased in 2005 for 800,000 B. It was worth 1.5 m in 2010. Maybe close to 2m by now. This is in Korat. I have owned in the States for 37 years. I owned 8 different houses. Buying does not necessarily mean you live there until you die.

Both have their advantages.

[VegasVic]

Oh how I wish I would have BOUGHT several Bangkok Condos that I looked at about the time of the 1997 bubble. I would have a great big pile of baht today. Renting sometimes makes more sense....but at other times BUYING makes more sense.

Hindsight is always 20/20, however I think that the OP was refering to buying vs. renting in real time and not some fantasy about scooping up thai real estate 15 years ago during the financial crisis. BTW I you are going to fantasize about buying something 15 years ago then go back to 1997 and buy a boatload of Apple stock for $4/sh.Back to reality, given the less than favorable exchange rates for the Dollar, Euro and Pound currently, and with the "shall we say shakey political situation" in the LOS along with the real estate laws prohibiting freehold ownership for non thais, not too mention the vast array of inexpensive rentals in most of Thailand, it is an absolute nobrainer to rent instead of buy! With that said if one has $100 or $150K of cash that he/she has no problem walking away from the by all means buy something you like in the LOS and enjoy for the forseeable future. As with all of these threads that deal with home ownership vs. renting in the LOS, an objective observer can easily discern the many home buyers here with buyers remorse trying to rationalize their home purchase in the LOS

[elzach]

In summary, if you are single and need freedom of movement, rent.

If you are married, and intend to stay in the property for a few years, buy. Not to mention that if you are married to an Asian wife (not just Thai) you'll be "forced" to buy anyway

Btw, in BKK the condo market is a buyer's market, just look at the construction rate the last 5 years. Which means if you will be trying to sell a condo in a few years, you'll be competing with Thais who bought them by the handful a few years back.

Also the old adage "location, location, location" doesn't just apply to the neighborhood, it applies to the country in this case as well. If you have faith in LOS as an investment destination, then go ahead. But the recent news (political, economic, social) are not positive, to put it extremely leniently.

[stoneyboy]

In summary, if you are single and need freedom of movement, rent.

If you are married, and intend to stay in the property for a few years, buy. Not to mention that if you are married to an Asian wife (not just Thai) you'll be "forced" to buy anyway

Btw, in BKK the condo market is a buyer's market, just look at the construction rate the last 5 years. Which means if you will be trying to sell a condo in a few years, you'll be competing with Thais who bought them by the handful a few years back.

Also the old adage "location, location, location" doesn't just apply to the neighborhood, it applies to the country in this case as well. If you have faith in LOS as an investment destination, then go ahead. But the recent news (political, economic, social) are not positive, to put it extremely leniently.

I won't be forced by any wife of any nationality into buying a house what a load of piffle.

[KittenKong]

New to posting on forum, now living in central Pattaya. Renting here is far more expensive than that quoted by Balance. Would I be right in thinking that price would be for some where outside of CM? You don't get much of a 3bd,2b down this end at 8500 Bt. At 74 yrs old I think the best way for me is to continue renting but maybe in a better area!

Dont compare apples and oranges. Chiang Mai is pleasant enough and I'm not knocking it at all but it isnt Thailand's busiest tourist destination just an hour from Bangkok airport. So it's entirely normal that things should cost less there than in Pattaya.

That said, if you avoid farang agents and negotiate hard you can make significant savings in Pattaya. I pay my sea-view condo rent a year in advance and that gets me the place at half the going monthly rate. There are plenty of house bargains to be had on the darkside also, if you look for them.

I'm nearly 20 years younger than you but I would not buy either, unless perhaps I came across an absolutely perfect condo at a totally knock-down price (over the years I have seem some at the right price, but the views just werent good enough for me). I would never even think about buying a house here at any price.

[KittenKong]

The natural order is two people make a commitment to each other and live together raising children, as parents when they die their worldly goods pass down a generation, or two, to their off-spring. It has been this way since the prized possessions were axe-heads and the magic of fire.

Here endeth the lesson.

Give me a break.

[KittenKong]

So if you rent and you only are there six months a year and say you pay 25 k a month in rent that means you are really paying 50 k a month for the time you are there. That is one of the problems with renting.

If you buy a place and leave it empty half the year you have exactly the same problem. Your cash is tied up and earning you nothing, you are still paying the bills and you are also probably paying for accommodation elsewhere unless you are staying there for free.

So any empty residence costs you money one way or another.

[Robert2006]

It depends on your financial position. Owning property is a nice place to store wealth. If you don’t have a lot of excess money then you probably have never contemplated that thought. What to do with your money? Bonds, stocks, precious metals, art, real estate all offer a place to store wealth.

Renting in some properties could be a problem but in better developments you don’t have much to worry about, the people are respectful of one another.

Of Course to " Store Wealth " the price must rise ..If the Price in Stagnant , you actually loose money taking account if Inflation .

I would suggest Rather Strongly that Thailand is NOT the place to Invest , for any number of Reasons . Invest in your desired Nation ( Property ) ..

Enjoy Thailand , Rent a Lovely place , Its extremely easy to get long term leases . If you Wish to " Store " Money ..Put it in a term deposit in a Western Country and dont touch it , you will just now Track Inflation . Better Options , on the ASX etc , if you want some Income .

I dont see that there are any Social concerns on Renting / Buying , you would have to have neighbours either way .

I’m not suggesting that this be an investment just a method of storing wealth. I understand your point but look at what just happened in Cyprus, anything over 250,000k is not insured what do you do open 100 bank accounts?

[Straight8]

When you own you have the potential to make a profit or loss, and you have a financial commitment to Thailand. If you rent you have none of these. I prefer renting.

Or maybe even lose half to your partner once she see you are no longer a hunsum man!!!

[Nooky2]

It is a preference. When I was raising a family it was important to me to own my own home, As years passed and a divorce I still owned my own home.

When I moved to Thailand I rented and will continue to rent I am retired on pensions have savings. I do not need to worry about making money for my old age I am already there. I refuse to buy anything I can not walk away from. I am a free man. Except for my wife. If I decide to move to some other local not a problem. I bought my own TV and refrigerator and will just give them away.

Owning does not give me a feeling of security it gives me a feeling of being owned. I don't know what will happen in the future but I will be able to deal with it. When the Wife's mother dies there is the possibility that I may move on to some where else. The wife likes Bali.

Exactly how I feel. And to add..

If you are working here, renting is the only way to go if you need to change jobs you can easily move. I feel buying a home here is a permanent thing because selling is near impossible. Of course, it depends on where your house is located and how much you want for it.

And the OP mentioned buying his wife a house. For me, that is always the wrong decision. It makes you expendable in nearly all cases.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

It depends on your financial position. Owning property is a nice place to store wealth. If you dont have a lot of excess money then you probably have never contemplated that thought. What to do with your money? Bonds, stocks, precious metals, art, real estate all offer a place to store wealth.

Renting in some properties could be a problem but in better developments you dont have much to worry about, the people are respectful of one another.

Of Course to " Store Wealth " the price must rise ..If the Price in Stagnant , you actually loose money taking account if Inflation .

I would suggest Rather Strongly that Thailand is NOT the place to Invest , for any number of Reasons . Invest in your desired Nation ( Property ) ..

Enjoy Thailand , Rent a Lovely place , Its extremely easy to get long term leases . If you Wish to " Store " Money ..Put it in a term deposit in a Western Country and dont touch it , you will just now Track Inflation . Better Options , on the ASX etc , if you want some Income .

I dont see that there are any Social concerns on Renting / Buying , you would have to have neighbours either way .

Im not suggesting that this be an investment just a method of storing wealth. I understand your point but look at what just happened in Cyprus, anything over 250,000k is not insured what do you do open 100 bank accounts?

I have a pal with a house in Cyprus, not only has his property value halved in the crisis, but if he could sell, at any price, he wouldn't be allowed to move the money out of the country.

[sandhurstmolonski]

It depends on your financial position. Owning property is a nice place to store wealth. If you don’t have a lot of excess money then you probably have never contemplated that thought. What to do with your money? Bonds, stocks, precious metals, art, real estate all offer a place to store wealth.

Renting in some properties could be a problem but in better developments you don’t have much to worry about, the people are respectful of one another.

Of Course to " Store Wealth " the price must rise ..If the Price in Stagnant , you actually loose money taking account if Inflation .

I would suggest Rather Strongly that Thailand is NOT the place to Invest , for any number of Reasons . Invest in your desired Nation ( Property ) ..

Enjoy Thailand , Rent a Lovely place , Its extremely easy to get long term leases . If you Wish to " Store " Money ..Put it in a term deposit in a Western Country and dont touch it , you will just now Track Inflation . Better Options , on the ASX etc , if you want some Income .

I dont see that there are any Social concerns on Renting / Buying , you would have to have neighbours either way .

I’m not suggesting that this be an investment just a method of storing wealth. I understand your point but look at what just happened in Cyprus, anything over 250,000k is not insured what do you do open 100 bank accounts?

Robert ..Exactly why I question Use of the Word " Storage " ..to Store you must maintain , to maintain there must be Growth ( to cover Inflation ) . My humble opinion would be that Thailand would be one of the Worst Places to " Store " Wealth ( In property ) ..Condo's ..forget it ! Pure and simple Wealth Destruction .

Money in another Asset Class ..And Just pay Rent . The Choices are simple , either Investment ( Forget it ) or Lifestyle , fine if the property is incredibly unique ..

And great for someone with Plenty , and for some 14,000,000 Barht is Jack ..So by all means enjoy the 14 Mill , if this is the Case . Otherwise Invest in a product much safer . ..

[sandhurstmolonski]

I am a strong subscriber of renting. There are many ways to leave a legacy for our loved ones in Thailand and the most practical is still cash and insurance although there are some who put an emotional attachment to leaving a house, so it's personal.

On a financial front there are many advantages of renting. There are fears that the landlord would raise the rent on renewal but there are also a possibility of better option and no loss to you.

Most landlords are reasonable and for them finding a good tenant is as important as you finding a good landlord. Most sensible landlord will not throw someone out just to get 1000,2000 baht more. They rather have someone that will turn their house into a wreck upon return

There are significant developments going on to keep the rent constant and the supply chain budging

As for having to store things, there are a load of cheap options ...just find a cheap room for 2000-3000 baht rental a month pay upfront for a year to get even more discount and you have a free storage space for more stuff

Just absolute 100% Genuine Logic . There are Few problems getting a great long term Rental in Thailand ..There will be no Shortage ..5 5 5 5

Quite the opposite . To rent is Common Sense , for so many reasons .

[hml367]

If someone invested 1,000,000 THB in a place to live when the exchange rate was 45THB to 1USD, are they still without common sense?

This, by the way, would be the same end result as a renter, except at the end of a long term lease the owner, which is usually the wife, has the land and house, hopefully.

Edited August 24, 2013 by hml367

[AnotherOneAmerican]

If someone invested 1,000,000 THB in a place to live when the exchange rate was 45THB to 1USD, are they still without common sense?

This, by the way, would be the same end result as a renter, except at the end of a long term lease the owner, which is usually the wife, has the land and house, hopefully.

Problem is, for foreigners, once the wife has a house fully paid for, she no longer requires the foreigner, so out you go. Giving someone else your assets/money is not what I call an investment.

[hml367]

Except the wife can't throw you out because there is a registered lease.

If the lessee makes the full 30 years, they have paid the equivalent of less than 3,000 THB per month.

[mesquite]

If someone invested 1,000,000 THB in a place to live when the exchange rate was 45THB to 1USD, are they still without common sense?

This, by the way, would be the same end result as a renter, except at the end of a long term lease the owner, which is usually the wife, has the land and house, hopefully.

Problem is, for foreigners, once the wife has a house fully paid for, she no longer requires the foreigner, so out you go. Giving someone else your assets/money is not what I call an investment.

Yes. And even though the foreigner may have a legal right to stay, the wife can simply drive him out by her becoming the b*tch from hell. Seen it.

[hml367]

It can also work out. Seen it.

[historyprof]

There are lots of ways to store wealth and most are more liquid than real estate. For me buying would be a condo since I can't own land. Try to sell a condo in this market hahaha.

No way. Rent.

If you actually visit Thailand you will discover they are still building condos and selling condos a couple percent up from last year.

Bangkok Condominium Market Report Half Year 2013

New launches in Q2 2013 were down by 22% from the previous quarter, but the total of newly launched units in the first half 2013 was approximately 28,600, or around 12% higher than the first half of last year.

Do some reading before you shoot off your mouth based on the rumor you read on TV.

The average selling price for newly launched units in the first half of 2013 increased by around 7% over the average price of all condominium units that were launched in 2012, due to a range of factors affecting construction costs. Low to middle-income groups are still the main buyers; the affordable prices are not over THB3 million.

http://www.colliers.co.th/research-publications/detail-research.asp?rsch_id=421

2013

• 22 Aug, 2013

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• CHIANG MAI CONDOMINIUM MARKET 2013

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• 13 May, 2013

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[AnotherOneAmerican]

Except the wife can't throw you out because there is a registered lease.

If the lessee makes the full 30 years, they have paid the equivalent of less than 3,000 THB per month.

Thai law doesn't allow contracts between a husband and wife.

If you have a lease from your wife, she can unilaterally cancel it at any time.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

There are lots of ways to store wealth and most are more liquid than real estate. For me buying would be a condo since I can't own land. Try to sell a condo in this market hahaha.

No way. Rent.

If you actually visit Thailand you will discover they are still building condos and selling condos a couple percent up from last year.

As a foreigner you are not selling new properties, and cannot arrange for the buyer to have a 100% home loan.

While new condo prices may be up, second-hand foreigner owned condos will not be.

Edited August 24, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[hml367]

You must be a lawyer?

This is interesting to me. Where can I find this contract exclusion? It would add a lot to this discussion.

Another question, since you seem to have legal knowledge, is a usufruct treated the same as a lease (or vice versa) with regard to this exclusion?

Edited August 24, 2013 by hml367

[Fookhaht]

Maybe this thread should have been a poll.

I rent here in Pattaya for half the cost of what I'd pay is the US. If I moved back to the US I'd buy.

In the USA my mortgage was $1000/month. Here, rent is $100/month. I'm here for the long-haul, and I don't even mind making modest improvements to the rental property (which, of course my landlord loves, and I don't mind for the convenience factor).

Which way to go? Buy or rent? Duh!

Edited August 24, 2013 by Fookhaht

[james5121]

If someone invested 1,000,000 THB in a place to live when the exchange rate was 45THB to 1USD, are they still without common sense?

This, by the way, would be the same end result as a renter, except at the end of a long term lease the owner, which is usually the wife, has the land and house, hopefully.

WELL< it seems to me it would have made more sense to take that money and have put it in silicon valley till just before 2000 then put it in the US housing market till 2007 then you would have 4,000,000,000 at the end of the tech wreck then at the end of the housing bubble you would have 8,000,000,000 SO you just turned a $20k investment into $258,064,516 YEAH that's right 258 million how does that compare to your $129,000 today JUST SAYING OR like someone else said put it into APPLE today you would have $3,401,360 .(this is all tongue in cheek) I only saw two small windows the Baht was at 45 and used that

BUT good for you not too many can turn 20K onto 129K in 16 years. :)Just guessing

your property at 4,000,000 baht today.