Asean as a grouping is a failure, academic insists

[webfact]

Asean as a grouping is a failure, academic insists
Pravit Rojanaphruk
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- ASEAN AS a community has been a failure so far, as the notion of national sovereignty continues to undermine its integration while the identity of the grouping has yet to crystallise, according to Eduardo C Tadem, an associate professor of Asian Studies at the University of the Philippines Diliman.

ASEAN AS a community has been a failure so far, as the notion of national sovereignty continues to undermine its integration while the identity of the grouping has yet to crystallise, according to Eduardo C Tadem, an associate professor of Asian Studies at the University of the Philippines Diliman.

Though many Thais are waiting for the ushering in of the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC) in 2015, Tadem reckons the regional grouping needs to come up with a new model of integration.

The professor made his presentation at the two-day third International Conference on International Relations and Development at Chulalongkorn University, which wrapped up yesterday. The conference was held by about half a dozen organisations from four universities, including Chulalongkorn's faculty of political science.

Tadem said countries like Singapore and Thailand considered ASEAN a conduit to boost their own exports, leading to clashes between national strategies and the grouping's own goals. He said 20 per cent of the AEC's trade protocols were far too tough and might not be agreed upon by 2015.

He also cited 2010 statistics showing intra-Asean trade at just 25 per cent of the entire trade in the 10 member states, compared with 67.3 per cent of intra-trading among European Union members.

Tadem also argued that competition among ASEAN manufacturers was fierce and thus undermined the goal of regional integration. Plus, three countries - Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand - dominate intra-Asean trade, accounting for about 70 per cent.

Then there's the free-trade agreements some ASEAN member states have with countries outside the regional bloc, such as Thailand's pacts with New Zealand, Australia and China, which reduces the efficacy of trade agreements within the grouping.

The ASEAN Secretariat, too, is weak and understaffed compared with the EU, Tadem said.

In addition to ASEAN leaders' failure to make any significant joint efforts to tackle the 1997 financial crisis, "in November 2012, ASEAN leaders [still] couldn't agree to set up a crisis hotline", he said.

The ASEAN sceptic went on to cite the failures of the ASEAN Charter, which he said brought the regional human-rights standards lower than those stipulated in the United Nations Charter.

"Asean has been silent on the issue of the Muslim Rohingya," Tadem pointed out, adding that he believes China is also dividing the grouping into mainland and maritime ASEAN states - much to the detriment of the regional bloc itself.

-- The Nation 2013-08-24

[impulse]

So you take a few of the most corrupt societies in the world, ask them to sign on to an agreement to play nice in the sandbox without cheating each other, and then honestly expect them to play nice without cheating?

[noitom]

So you take a few of the most corrupt societies in the world, ask them to sign on to an agreement to play nice in the sandbox without cheating each other, and then honestly expect them to play nice without cheating?

You hang around in a barber shop long enough you will get a haircut.

[impulse]

So you take a few of the most corrupt societies in the world, ask them to sign on to an agreement to play nice in the sandbox without cheating each other, and then honestly expect them to play nice without cheating?

You hang around in a barber shop long enough you will get a haircut.

Probably. But how much are you going to lose playing their "friendly game of poker" while you're waiting on the haircut?

Before you figure out that they don't make money on the haircuts, it's the poker.

Edited August 24, 2013 by impulse

[jpeg]

Ah, really don't want to say this but Told You So

[NongKhaiKid]

ASEAN and the soon to be AEC are up against it as each country in this region thinks they are top dog and subordinating themselves to a general overall policy isn't on compared to nationalistic attitudes.

They will smile, shake hands and pose for the cameras whilst trying to out do each other as every turn.

The EU has problems with nationalism but in this part of the world throw in face too.

[alant]

It wont work, it can't work. All nations in the region eat, sleep and breath protectionism (OK maybe Singapore less so).

A creative environment for the construction of reasons not to comply with freedoms promised will surely flourish.

[Bakseeda]

Quite simply ...They all hate each other... not one of thse ASEAN nations wants to watch a neighbour doing well. Jealousy and covetous is alive and kicking in Thailand...

[thomash]

Wow it hasn't even started yet and it is

already a failure so what will happen when it

actually start?? Man the lifeboats!

[johnlandy]

Water finds it's own level "which is almost always 'as in this case' the level of the lowest member"

[Thai at Heart]

Well that's hardly a reason not to keep going.

ASEAN is like EU lite. Hopefully they can push it forward without a currency union and develop the region. It hasn't failed, it's barely just started.

[Mackie]

It is a recipe for disaster. It does not benefit ordinary people in any way. It benefits only corporations and big businesses as they will be able to get even cheaper labour. South East Asians should learn from EU experience. Euro as a common currency is an absolute failure. Ordinary citizens paid shouldered all the cost for over bloated EU bureaucratic apparatus, EU parliament and common currency. Life was better before. Some of us still remember.

Realistically speaking, Cambodia, Laos, The Phillipines and Myanmar in particular are at least 20-30 years behind Thailand in terms of infrastructure and economic development. And Thailand is at least 5-10 years behind Singapore. If I were a Singaporean or Thai, I would simply do my utmost to keep their countries independent. ASEAN is not going to benefit them in any shape or form.

[RickBradford]

ASEAN has two functions:

1) to give the countries some collective clout in international forums (especially over issues regarding China, such as the Spratlys)

2) to formalize the notion that nobody interferes with the way the others run their countries (human rights, rule of law etc)

So it's only been a moderate failure, not a complete one.

[Thai at Heart]

It is a recipe for disaster. It does not benefit ordinary people in any way. It benefits only corporations and big businesses as they will be able to get even cheaper labour. South East Asians should learn from EU experience. Euro as a common currency is an absolute failure. Ordinary citizens paid shouldered all the cost for over bloated EU bureaucratic apparatus, EU parliament and common currency. Life was better before. Some of us still remember.

Realistically speaking, Cambodia, Laos, The Phillipines and Myanmar in particular are at least 20-30 years behind Thailand in terms of infrastructure and economic development. And Thailand is at least 5-10 years behind Singapore. If I were a Singaporean or Thai, I would simply do my utmost to keep their countries independent. ASEAN is not going to benefit them in any shape or form.

The only thing I query is how far the other countries are behind Thailand and Singapore ahead?

Singapore is 30 years ahead of Thailand, and Malaysia at least 15. Philippines and Indonesia are no way 30 years behind Thailand.

Things move quickly these days. For trade and human rights issues ASEAN can work. It doesn't need a parliament and all the adminstration that the EU had.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[thinkingofhow]

I agree, it is only natural that CHINA should take control of the whole region. Chinese have been here for generations, longer than any other current population. China Communisium is blending and it would blend the societies easily and do away with the local animosity and petty backstabing and of course the bribes and graft. The loacal ASEAN countires have had century's of fighting and hatered this will NEVER go away. China is also right next door, a neighbour, and it will quickly upgrade roads, rails, airports and the local technologies and quality of life will all go up under Commuist China rule. China has Buddisim as well , so it is a much better fit than the Western Democracies and English Language and secular Chrisitan ways of exisitng. A much better alternative than the wilting ASEAN attempt at futility. Give in now and let the hoardes decend. The future (with China) is bright.

[impulse]

I agree, it is only natural that CHINA should take control of the whole region. Chinese have been here for generations, longer than any other current population. China Communisium is blending and it would blend the societies easily and do away with the local animosity and petty backstabing and of course the bribes and graft. The loacal ASEAN countires have had century's of fighting and hatered this will NEVER go away. China is also right next door, a neighbour, and it will quickly upgrade roads, rails, airports and the local technologies and quality of life will all go up under Commuist China rule. China has Buddisim as well , so it is a much better fit than the Western Democracies and English Language and secular Chrisitan ways of exisitng. A much better alternative than the wilting ASEAN attempt at futility. Give in now and let the hoardes decend. The future (with China) is bright.

You forgot the smiley.

[Thai at Heart]

I agree, it is only natural that CHINA should take control of the whole region. Chinese have been here for generations, longer than any other current population. China Communisium is blending and it would blend the societies easily and do away with the local animosity and petty backstabing and of course the bribes and graft. The loacal ASEAN countires have had century's of fighting and hatered this will NEVER go away. China is also right next door, a neighbour, and it will quickly upgrade roads, rails, airports and the local technologies and quality of life will all go up under Commuist China rule. China has Buddisim as well , so it is a much better fit than the Western Democracies and English Language and secular Chrisitan ways of exisitng. A much better alternative than the wilting ASEAN attempt at futility. Give in now and let the hoardes decend. The future (with China) is bright.

Bright.

China has so many homegrown problems, I think they will keep their council at home. Where do Japan and Korea for into your master plan?

[Bagwan]

Wow it hasn't even started yet and it is

already a failure so what will happen when it

actually start?? Man the lifeboats!

Man the lifeboats? Good idea. I've got the Cockburn's, will somebody makes sure to bring the petits fours?

brings a degree of clarity.

[Mackie]

Smiley or not China is actually investing heavily in South East Asian countries. Mainly Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar - the least developed ones. Chinese have the money to invest, unlike the USA and other countries which are literally broke and heavily in debt.

The USA will do their best to influence and turn ASEAN countries against China. US foreign policy makers are already meddling in Myanmar's, Vietnam's and the Philippines's internal affairs. Trying hard to stir shit between above mentioned countries and China.

[hansnl]

It is a recipe for disaster. It does not benefit ordinary people in any way. It benefits only corporations and big businesses as they will be able to get even cheaper labour. South East Asians should learn from EU experience. Euro as a common currency is an absolute failure. Ordinary citizens paid shouldered all the cost for over bloated EU bureaucratic apparatus, EU parliament and common currency. Life was better before. Some of us still remember.

Realistically speaking, Cambodia, Laos, The Phillipines and Myanmar in particular are at least 20-30 years behind Thailand in terms of infrastructure and economic development. And Thailand is at least 5-10 years behind Singapore. If I were a Singaporean or Thai, I would simply do my utmost to keep their countries independent. ASEAN is not going to benefit them in any shape or form.

The only thing I query is how far the other countries are behind Thailand and Singapore ahead?

Singapore is 30 years ahead of Thailand, and Malaysia at least 15. Philippines and Indonesia are no way 30 years behind Thailand.

Things move quickly these days. For trade and human rights issues ASEAN can work. It doesn't need a parliament and all the adminstration that the EU had.

And Europe, not the EU, does not need the administration and Parliament of the EU either.

[Thai at Heart]

It is a recipe for disaster. It does not benefit ordinary people in any way. It benefits only corporations and big businesses as they will be able to get even cheaper labour. South East Asians should learn from EU experience. Euro as a common currency is an absolute failure. Ordinary citizens paid shouldered all the cost for over bloated EU bureaucratic apparatus, EU parliament and common currency. Life was better before. Some of us still remember.

Realistically speaking, Cambodia, Laos, The Phillipines and Myanmar in particular are at least 20-30 years behind Thailand in terms of infrastructure and economic development. And Thailand is at least 5-10 years behind Singapore. If I were a Singaporean or Thai, I would simply do my utmost to keep their countries independent. ASEAN is not going to benefit them in any shape or form.

The only thing I query is how far the other countries are behind Thailand and Singapore ahead?

Singapore is 30 years ahead of Thailand, and Malaysia at least 15. Philippines and Indonesia are no way 30 years behind Thailand.

Things move quickly these days. For trade and human rights issues ASEAN can work. It doesn't need a parliament and all the adminstration that the EU had.

And Europe, not the EU, does not need the administration and Parliament of the EU either.

You are right. But they went down the federal route. Part of their problem is they have a currency run by a parliament/bank with no tax collecting capability.

[impulse]

Smiley or not China is actually investing heavily in South East Asian countries. Mainly Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar - the least developed ones. Chinese have the money to invest, unlike the USA and other countries which are literally broke and heavily in debt.

The USA will do their best to influence and turn ASEAN countries against China. US foreign policy makers are already meddling in Myanmar's, Vietnam's and the Philippines's internal affairs. Trying hard to stir shit between above mentioned countries and China.

Kind of like they stirred up all the crap in the '40s for that other Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere?

They were late to the party back then because of decades of isolationism. No longer in the vocabulary (unfortunately).

[expat888]

How many of us saw this coming. This is just the beginning of the inevitable withdrawal of Thailand from the AEC. I thought it would at least be delayed but this looks like an out right pull out.

[hellodolly]

ASEAN has two functions:

1) to give the countries some collective clout in international forums (especially over issues regarding China, such as the Spratlys)

2) to formalize the notion that nobody interferes with the way the others run their countries (human rights, rule of law etc)

So it's only been a moderate failure, not a complete one.

They have two years time to work out some of the kinks. The big question is will they even acknowledge a lot of them?

[richard10365]

I guess it depends on the scope of your perspective if you consider ASEAN a failure as a community. I pretty much disagree with Mr. Tadem on everything he has said so trying to understand Mr. Tadem I looked up his profile at the University of the Philippines. PhD in Southeast Asian Studies, National University of Singapore; MA in Asian Studies (Southeast Asia), Asian Center, University of the Philippines Diliman BA in Philosophy, University of the Philippines Diliman.

4 years studying philosophy I suppose has something to do with it. No real business background to speak of. Philosophers are really good at complaining but not very good at fixing things. Of course, where would democracy and our freedoms be without philosophy and religion...which are both about the same thing (IMHO).

Additionally, the conference was held in Chulalongkorn's faculty of Political Science. Having personally heard lectures from PhDs from this faculty, Mr. Tadem is assured a standing ovation from this crowd if he talks against the ASEAN integration process. This is another group of PhDs who don't like to read documents in English. More about that later.

However, of the 3 communities of ASEAN, the Social/Cultural Community needs people like Mr. Tadem. Human rights, women's issues, and education are all areas that can benefit from Mr. Tadem's knowledge as this seems to be his area of expertise. However, ASEAN is made up of 3 communities and not 1 and usually experts of the ASEAN Political Security Community (APSC) and the ASEAN Social Cultural Community (ASCC) are fast to blame the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC) on issues that are being addressed by the APSC and the ASCC.

Therein lies the problem. There are some PhD's who feel they have reached the level of supreme being and have become all knowing and feel they don't have to do much research any more. They base their thoughts on previously acquired knowledge which they assume never changes. The problem is, everything changes. However, they still make decisions and comments (speeches) based on something that has changed.

The good news is it's not to late to study. Mr. Tadem, the ASEAN website might be more up to date than some of your theories. It would be good to learn what pillars the APSC, AEC, ASCC, is responsible for with ASEAN integration.

ASEAN, as a community, is a process that is moving towards integration. Is it perfect? No. Are we better off now than before the integration process? Yes. Is everyone better off at the same time? No. Should we wait for the perfect plan before we try to improve the lives of 600 million people? Probably not.

About National Sovereignty, every country has it. As of yet, ASEAN is still accomplishing more than 70% of the goals and objectives set out in the AEC Blueprint. In most schools 70% is passing. Maybe it's different in the Philippines. Had sovereignty undermined integration, we would not be at 70%.

Most Thais believe integration will begin in 2015 and are unaware it already began in 2008. This is mostly due to most ASEAN documents being in English. Thais, especially ones with PhDs, are very lazy to read documents in English. So they only read what the Thai ASEAN representatives have translated into Thai. This is an area that can be improved in Thailand. More attention needs to be paid to translating ASEAN documents into Thai language so lectures can give informed speeches to their students.

About the chart he cited, I bet he didn't point out that ASEAN trades more with ASEAN (25%) than with the entire EU (10%) and USA (8%) combined.

About the FTAs some ASEAN members have outside the regional block, they have nothing to do with trade agreements within the grouping. Tariff's are already zero to five percent within the grouping.

The information is on the ASEAN website. It's quite complicated though and some people who speak English as a second language might have problems reading it. More should be done to translate the website and the information in it.

[Carl64]

It is a recipe for disaster. It does not benefit ordinary people in any way. It benefits only corporations and big businesses as they will be able to get even cheaper labour. South East Asians should learn from EU experience. Euro as a common currency is an absolute failure. Ordinary citizens paid shouldered all the cost for over bloated EU bureaucratic apparatus, EU parliament and common currency. Life was better before. Some of us still remember.

Realistically speaking, Cambodia, Laos, The Phillipines and Myanmar in particular are at least 20-30 years behind Thailand in terms of infrastructure and economic development. And Thailand is at least 5-10 years behind Singapore. If I were a Singaporean or Thai, I would simply do my utmost to keep their countries independent. ASEAN is not going to benefit them in any shape or form.

I have done business in the Phillipines and you are wrong on that one. Their GDP is amongst the highest in South East Asia refer to http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-annual-growth-rate

Their English rates are very high which makes it very friendly to do business with. They are doing a lot of outsourcing to english speaking countries and are very good at what they do. This has meant a truck load of capital coming into the country. They also have one of the largest population increases in South East Asia.

Reference http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps13_196.pdf

Their work ethic is so different from thailands. I have found a strong can do attitude and they strive for perfection, every time.

Manila is huge and has great infrastructure .

Also they don't have the same cultural handicaps such as saving face! (Minimal compared to Thailand)

Other ASEAN countries could learn a lot from this model.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Carl64

[CHRISTIANa9]

It is a recipe for disaster. It does not benefit ordinary people in any way. It benefits only corporations and big businesses as they will be able to get even cheaper labour. South East Asians should learn from EU experience. Euro as a common currency is an absolute failure. Ordinary citizens paid shouldered all the cost for over bloated EU bureaucratic apparatus, EU parliament and common currency. Life was better before. Some of us still remember.

Realistically speaking, Cambodia, Laos, The Phillipines and Myanmar in particular are at least 20-30 years behind Thailand in terms of infrastructure and economic development. And Thailand is at least 5-10 years behind Singapore. If I were a Singaporean or Thai, I would simply do my utmost to keep their countries independent. ASEAN is not going to benefit them in any shape or form.

I have done business in the Phillipines and you are wrong on that one. Their GDP is amongst the highest in South East Asia refer to http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-annual-growth-rate

Their English rates are very high which makes it very friendly to do business with. They are doing a lot of outsourcing to english speaking countries and are very good at what they do. This has meant a truck load of capital coming into the country. They also have one of the largest population increases in South East Asia.

Reference http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps13_196.pdf

Their work ethic is so different from thailands. I have found a strong can do attitude and they strive for perfection, every time.

Manila is huge and has great infrastructure .

Also they don't have the same cultural handicaps such as saving face! (Minimal compared to Thailand)

Other ASEAN countries could learn a lot from this model.

Are you kidding me? Their high GDP is only in the last 2 years and may not last esp another popular celebrity becomes president.

"Strive for perfection", more like ripping you off at every opportunity. We had operations in Phil's, and the amount fraud is more then the sum for the whole group.

Infrastructure? Great? Yeah compare with Laos, Cambodia, mymmar. Annual flooding, horrendous traffic, dirty.

[CHRISTIANa9]

I agree, it is only natural that CHINA should take control of the whole region. Chinese have been here for generations, longer than any other current population. China Communisium is blending and it would blend the societies easily and do away with the local animosity and petty backstabing and of course the bribes and graft. The loacal ASEAN countires have had century's of fighting and hatered this will NEVER go away. China is also right next door, a neighbour, and it will quickly upgrade roads, rails, airports and the local technologies and quality of life will all go up under Commuist China rule. China has Buddisim as well , so it is a much better fit than the Western Democracies and English Language and secular Chrisitan ways of exisitng. A much better alternative than the wilting ASEAN attempt at futility. Give in now and let the hoardes decend. The future (with China) is bright.

Lol china. Go live there and you know what it's like to be bossed around by the Chinese. I rather be colonized again.

[Carl64]

It is a recipe for disaster. It does not benefit ordinary people in any way. It benefits only corporations and big businesses as they will be able to get even cheaper labour. South East Asians should learn from EU experience. Euro as a common currency is an absolute failure. Ordinary citizens paid shouldered all the cost for over bloated EU bureaucratic apparatus, EU parliament and common currency. Life was better before. Some of us still remember.

Realistically speaking, Cambodia, Laos, The Phillipines and Myanmar in particular are at least 20-30 years behind Thailand in terms of infrastructure and economic development. And Thailand is at least 5-10 years behind Singapore. If I were a Singaporean or Thai, I would simply do my utmost to keep their countries independent. ASEAN is not going to benefit them in any shape or form.

I have done business in the Phillipines and you are wrong on that one. Their GDP is amongst the highest in South East Asia refer to http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-annual-growth-rate

Their English rates are very high which makes it very friendly to do business with. They are doing a lot of outsourcing to english speaking countries and are very good at what they do. This has meant a truck load of capital coming into the country. They also have one of the largest population increases in South East Asia.

Reference http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps13_196.pdf

Their work ethic is so different from thailands. I have found a strong can do attitude and they strive for perfection, every time.

Manila is huge and has great infrastructure .

Also they don't have the same cultural handicaps such as saving face! (Minimal compared to Thailand)

Other ASEAN countries could learn a lot from this model.

Are you kidding me? Their high GDP is only in the last 2 years and may not last esp another popular celebrity becomes president.

"Strive for perfection", more like ripping you off at every opportunity. We had operations in Phil's, and the amount fraud is more then the sum for the whole group.

Infrastructure? Great? Yeah compare with Laos, Cambodia, mymmar. Annual flooding, horrendous traffic, dirty.

Annual flooding, horrendous traffic and dirty. Are you talking about Bangkok?

[whybother]

It is a recipe for disaster. It does not benefit ordinary people in any way. It benefits only corporations and big businesses as they will be able to get even cheaper labour. South East Asians should learn from EU experience. Euro as a common currency is an absolute failure. Ordinary citizens paid shouldered all the cost for over bloated EU bureaucratic apparatus, EU parliament and common currency. Life was better before. Some of us still remember.

Realistically speaking, Cambodia, Laos, The Phillipines and Myanmar in particular are at least 20-30 years behind Thailand in terms of infrastructure and economic development. And Thailand is at least 5-10 years behind Singapore. If I were a Singaporean or Thai, I would simply do my utmost to keep their countries independent. ASEAN is not going to benefit them in any shape or form.

The AEC doesn't allow for the free movement of labour. There will be no more cheap labour than there is now.

It also has nothing to do with currencies. It is only for free trade.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited August 24, 2013 by whybother