Asean as a grouping is a failure, academic insists

[richard10365]

It is a recipe for disaster. It does not benefit ordinary people in any way. It benefits only corporations and big businesses as they will be able to get even cheaper labour. South East Asians should learn from EU experience. Euro as a common currency is an absolute failure. Ordinary citizens paid shouldered all the cost for over bloated EU bureaucratic apparatus, EU parliament and common currency. Life was better before. Some of us still remember.

Realistically speaking, Cambodia, Laos, The Phillipines and Myanmar in particular are at least 20-30 years behind Thailand in terms of infrastructure and economic development. And Thailand is at least 5-10 years behind Singapore. If I were a Singaporean or Thai, I would simply do my utmost to keep their countries independent. ASEAN is not going to benefit them in any shape or form.

The AEC doesn't allow for the free movement of labour. There will be no more cheap labour than there is now.

It also has nothing to do with currencies. It is only for free trade.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So many people with so little knowledge.

The AEC does allow for labor to move freely in specific jobs. Tourism for one.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/travel/82240/asean-tourist-staff-can-work-within-bloc-from-2015.html

[soomak]

Quite simply ...They all hate each other... not one of thse ASEAN nations wants to watch a neighbour doing well. Jealousy and covetous is alive and kicking in Thailand...

This was quite the same in Europe a few decades ago, and is still partly true in some countries (English-French, French-German, etc).

But still the European Union is a strong economic union, which has effected many markets and laws within its member states.

[Thai at Heart]

Quite simply ...They all hate each other... not one of thse ASEAN nations wants to watch a neighbour doing well. Jealousy and covetous is alive and kicking in Thailand...

This was quite the same in Europe a few decades ago, and is still partly true in some countries (English-French, French-German, etc).

But still the European Union is a strong economic union, which has effected many markets and laws within its member states.

I don't think anyone would say that the EU is a model for a strong economic union. It was flawed from the start. A single currency with no central bank to issue EU denominated debt.

I see Greece needs another 10bn in lending.

[whybother]

The AEC doesn't allow for the free movement of labour. There will be no more cheap labour than there is now.

It also has nothing to do with currencies. It is only for free trade.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So many people with so little knowledge.

The AEC does allow for labor to move freely in specific jobs. Tourism for one.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/travel/82240/asean-tourist-staff-can-work-within-bloc-from-2015.html

Employees in the tourism industry certified by the Tourism Certification Board in any one of the ten ASEAN members will be recognized by the others and thus able to find jobs in the region from 2015 under the ASEAN Mutual Recognition Arrangement on Tourism, signed four years ago.

If you can find anything about Thailand's "Tourism Certification Board" (or equivalent), then we can start discussing the free movement of labour in Tourism.

There is a very restrictive "free movement of labour" in some specific industries, but there certainly isn't a *general* free movement of labour that keeps getting mentioned in news articles.

[samran]

Simply not true it is a failure. We get these cool ASEAN passport queue's at airports were we can feel special.

[belg]

so the best way is :

forget about ASEAN for thailand

as competition is not a word in a thai's person's dictionary or vocabulary

[CHRISTIANa9]

For every mountain there can only be one tiger.

[kimamey]

Quite simply ...They all hate each other... not one of thse ASEAN nations wants to watch a neighbour doing well. Jealousy and covetous is alive and kicking in Thailand...

This was quite the same in Europe a few decades ago, and is still partly true in some countries (English-French, French-German, etc).

But still the European Union is a strong economic union, which has effected many markets and laws within its member states.

I don't think anyone would say that the EU is a model for a strong economic union. It was flawed from the start. A single currency with no central bank to issue EU denominated debt.

I see Greece needs another 10bn in lending.

The problem with Greece is they should never have been in the Euro in the first place. They only managed it by fiddling their figures. The Euro hasn't been around for long and the recent financial crisis has been a hard test. The reasons for the problems facing many of the member countries are varied and not always entirely down to the government. Spain for example is the only one to have stuck to the debt rules that were put in place but have had to save their banks, or more accurately the customers of those banks.

ASEAN can learn from what has already been done, both good and bad and nationalistic tendencies are certainly a problem that needs to be dealt with. Another issue for Thailand at least is competition which they seem to avoid as much as possible. If they have to come out from behind their protectionist policies they will need to work hard to deal with the new circumstances.

I don't think it's fair to say that it's a failure yet but it has the potential to be if the member countries don't work hard to make it a success.

[richard10365]

The AEC doesn't allow for the free movement of labour. There will be no more cheap labour than there is now.

It also has nothing to do with currencies. It is only for free trade.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So many people with so little knowledge.

The AEC does allow for labor to move freely in specific jobs. Tourism for one.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/travel/82240/asean-tourist-staff-can-work-within-bloc-from-2015.html

Employees in the tourism industry certified by the Tourism Certification Board in any one of the ten ASEAN members will be recognized by the others and thus able to find jobs in the region from 2015 under the ASEAN Mutual Recognition Arrangement on Tourism, signed four years ago.

If you can find anything about Thailand's "Tourism Certification Board" (or equivalent), then we can start discussing the free movement of labour in Tourism.

There is a very restrictive "free movement of labour" in some specific industries, but there certainly isn't a *general* free movement of labour that keeps getting mentioned in news articles.

You mean something like this?

ASEAN MNP Schedule - Thailand.pdf

[richard10365]

I understand there is a lot of confusion about what is going. The reason for this is most people have not had any formal training about ASEAN. What most people know is what they read someone else saying in the press. This makes you a dependent on other people's knowledge. If you would like to be more knowledgeable on ASEAN, it is best to go to the ASEAN website at www.asean.org and study the material there.

My suggestion for study:

1. About ASEAN
2. The ASEAN Charter
3. Community Blueprints
   1. ASEAN Political Security Community
   2. ASEAN Economic Community
   3. ASEAN Social Cultural Community

This should be enough to get you started and give you a better understanding on what is happening in ASEAN. If you need specific help about a particular subject, feel free to send me a message and I will try to assist you. I'm not the top expert on ASEAN but I am writing my Thesis on it for my MBA and have been studying it for a while now.

[Berkshire]

It is a recipe for disaster. It does not benefit ordinary people in any way. It benefits only corporations and big businesses as they will be able to get even cheaper labour. South East Asians should learn from EU experience. Euro as a common currency is an absolute failure. Ordinary citizens paid shouldered all the cost for over bloated EU bureaucratic apparatus, EU parliament and common currency. Life was better before. Some of us still remember.

Realistically speaking, Cambodia, Laos, The Phillipines and Myanmar in particular are at least 20-30 years behind Thailand in terms of infrastructure and economic development. And Thailand is at least 5-10 years behind Singapore. If I were a Singaporean or Thai, I would simply do my utmost to keep their countries independent. ASEAN is not going to benefit them in any shape or form.

I have done business in the Phillipines and you are wrong on that one. Their GDP is amongst the highest in South East Asia refer to http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-annual-growth-rate

Their English rates are very high which makes it very friendly to do business with. They are doing a lot of outsourcing to english speaking countries and are very good at what they do. This has meant a truck load of capital coming into the country. They also have one of the largest population increases in South East Asia.

Reference http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps13_196.pdf

Their work ethic is so different from thailands. I have found a strong can do attitude and they strive for perfection, every time.

Manila is huge and has great infrastructure .

Also they don't have the same cultural handicaps such as saving face! (Minimal compared to Thailand)

Other ASEAN countries could learn a lot from this model.

You can't be serious. The Philippines is a chronic basketcase, completely being destroyed from the inside by massive corruption, crime, poverty, you name it. You mention their population increase as if it's a good thing, but that's one of their biggest problems--overpopulation. I feel sorry for its people as the Filipinos are a good bunch. Note that most of the Filipinos that I know have since fled the PI, so even the Filipinos know that there's not much hope for that country turning around any time soon. About the only thing accurate about your statement is the English proficiency of the average Filipino...which doesn't seem to have helped that country in terms of economic development.

[Thai at Heart]

Quite simply ...They all hate each other... not one of thse ASEAN nations wants to watch a neighbour doing well. Jealousy and covetous is alive and kicking in Thailand...

This was quite the same in Europe a few decades ago, and is still partly true in some countries (English-French, French-German, etc).

But still the European Union is a strong economic union, which has effected many markets and laws within its member states.

I don't think anyone would say that the EU is a model for a strong economic union. It was flawed from the start. A single currency with no central bank to issue EU denominated debt.

I see Greece needs another 10bn in lending.

The problem with Greece is they should never have been in the Euro in the first place. They only managed it by fiddling their figures. The Euro hasn't been around for long and the recent financial crisis has been a hard test. The reasons for the problems facing many of the member countries are varied and not always entirely down to the government. Spain for example is the only one to have stuck to the debt rules that were put in place but have had to save their banks, or more accurately the customers of those banks.

ASEAN can learn from what has already been done, both good and bad and nationalistic tendencies are certainly a problem that needs to be dealt with. Another issue for Thailand at least is competition which they seem to avoid as much as possible. If they have to come out from behind their protectionist policies they will need to work hard to deal with the new circumstances.

I don't think it's fair to say that it's a failure yet but it has the potential to be if the member countries don't work hard to make it a success.

True, but if you look closer, the very first country to break the EU rules on finance was actually Germany. I will never forget seeing an article when I was studying my economics A level all those years ago that the way it was structured it was bound to fail.

All these years later it has come to pass. They will put sticking plasters on it, and force several countries into horrendous austerity for years. They have a two or three tier Europe today with a single currency. Thank God Britain didn't get into it fully.

As for Thailand, and other countries in the region, and don't think they understand reciprocity in deals. Mutual benefit is squished by protectionism.

[whybother]

Employees in the tourism industry certified by the Tourism Certification Board in any one of the ten ASEAN members will be recognized by the others and thus able to find jobs in the region from 2015 under the ASEAN Mutual Recognition Arrangement on Tourism, signed four years ago.

If you can find anything about Thailand's "Tourism Certification Board" (or equivalent), then we can start discussing the free movement of labour in Tourism.

There is a very restrictive "free movement of labour" in some specific industries, but there certainly isn't a *general* free movement of labour that keeps getting mentioned in news articles.

You mean something like this?

No. That attachment mentions "Tourism" once, and doesn't even mention "Certification".

It talks about the "schedule".

Thailand (and generally, ASEAN) had committed to free movement of labour in some industries since 2010, but as with this example of "Tourism Certification Board", there is no way to get certification that will enable the workers to move freely.

[richard10365]

Employees in the tourism industry certified by the Tourism Certification Board in any one of the ten ASEAN members will be recognized by the others and thus able to find jobs in the region from 2015 under the ASEAN Mutual Recognition Arrangement on Tourism, signed four years ago.

If you can find anything about Thailand's "Tourism Certification Board" (or equivalent), then we can start discussing the free movement of labour in Tourism.

There is a very restrictive "free movement of labour" in some specific industries, but there certainly isn't a *general* free movement of labour that keeps getting mentioned in news articles.

You mean something like this?

No. That attachment mentions "Tourism" once, and doesn't even mention "Certification".

It talks about the "schedule".

Thailand (and generally, ASEAN) had committed to free movement of labour in some industries since 2010, but as with this example of "Tourism Certification Board", there is no way to get certification that will enable the workers to move freely.

Whybother, good point. What do you think of this book?

GUIDE TO ASEAN MUTUAL RECOGNITION ARRANGEMENT ON TOURISM PROFESSIONALS.pdf

[whybother]

Whybother, good point. What do you think of this book?

Interesting reading. Thanks.

This quote goes back to my point about it not really being "free movement of labour" ... lots of "may"s and "if"s.

From 2015 the qualification of a Foreign Tourism Professional may be recognised by other ASEAN Member States, and if such qualification is recognised, they may be eligible to work in a host country provided that they possess a valid tourism competency certificate in a specific tourism job title as specified in the Common ASEAN Tourism Curriculum (CATC), issued by the Tourism Professional Certification Board (TPCB) in an ASEAN Member State

Also, section 4, mentioning a work permit, highlights another point. Even though there may be "free movement", that doesn't mean that you won't need a work permit.

[richard10365]

Whybother, good point. What do you think of this book?

Interesting reading. Thanks.

This quote goes back to my point about it not really being "free movement of labour" ... lots of "may"s and "if"s.

From 2015 the qualification of a Foreign Tourism Professional may be recognised by other ASEAN Member States, and if such qualification is recognised, they may be eligible to work in a host country provided that they possess a valid tourism competency certificate in a specific tourism job title as specified in the Common ASEAN Tourism Curriculum (CATC), issued by the Tourism Professional Certification Board (TPCB) in an ASEAN Member State

Also, section 4, mentioning a work permit, highlights another point. Even though there may be "free movement", that doesn't mean that you won't need a work permit.

There is so much information on the ASEAN website it's a real challenge to navigate through. I've now stumbled across all sorts of information that details, for example, specific Hotel and Tourism competencies such as "how to politely take care of drunk guest". I think each country will be developing their specific criteria needed to issue proper certification that will be accepted by the other 9 countries. I think it is amazing they have been able to accomplish what they have so far. I like ASEAN. I hope they are successful.

[paz]

I agree, it is only natural that CHINA should take control of the whole region. Chinese have been here for generations, longer than any other current population. China Communisium is blending and it would blend the societies easily and do away with the local animosity and petty backstabing and of course the bribes and graft. The loacal ASEAN countires have had century's of fighting and hatered this will NEVER go away. China is also right next door, a neighbour, and it will quickly upgrade roads, rails, airports and the local technologies and quality of life will all go up under Commuist China rule. China has Buddisim as well , so it is a much better fit than the Western Democracies and English Language and secular Chrisitan ways of exisitng. A much better alternative than the wilting ASEAN attempt at futility. Give in now and let the hoardes decend. The future (with China) is bright.

What a piece of brilliant fantapolitics!

Let me try too:

I agree, it is only natural that the ROMAN CHURCH should take control of the whole region. ROMANS have been here for generations, longer than any other current population. ROMAN CHURCH is blending and it would blend the societies easily and do away with the local animosity and petty backstabing and of course the bribes and graft. The loacal EUROPEAN countires have had century's of fighting and hatered this will NEVER go away. ROME is also right next door, a neighbour, and it will quickly upgrade roads, rails, airports and the local technologies and quality of life will all go up under ROMAN CHURCH rule. ROME has CHATOLICISM as well , so it is a much better fit than the Western Democracies and English Language and secular Chrisitan ways of exisitng. A much better alternative than the wilting EUROPEN attempt at futility. Give in now and let the hoardes decend. The future (with ROME) is bright.

[Sayonarax]

So you take a few of the most corrupt societies in the world, ask them to sign on to an agreement to play nice in the sandbox without cheating each other, and then honestly expect them to play nice without cheating?

You hang around in a barber shop long enough you will get a haircut.

Will it be free?

[paz]

It is a recipe for disaster. It does not benefit ordinary people in any way. It benefits only corporations and big businesses as they will be able to get even cheaper labour. South East Asians should learn from EU experience. Euro as a common currency is an absolute failure. Ordinary citizens paid shouldered all the cost for over bloated EU bureaucratic apparatus, EU parliament and common currency. Life was better before. Some of us still remember.

Yes, I remember that that we had uncessary customs, duties and money changers. And that countries were free to do anything with their budgets and other stuff with no central place to discuss and harmonize. No doubt some people were doing better and some were doing worst. You can have any opinion about but until EU fails (it has not yet), just add [ it's my opinion.

[paz]

True, but if you look closer, the very first country to break the EU rules on finance was actually Germany. I will never forget seeing an article when I was studying my economics A level all those years ago that the way it was structured it was bound to fail.

All these years later it has come to pass. They will put sticking plasters on it, and force several countries into horrendous austerity for years. They have a two or three tier Europe today with a single currency. Thank God Britain didn't get into it fully.

Forced what exactly? All it takes for a nation to leave Europe and it's "regulations" is to stand up and do it. That hasn't happened yet maybe for some good reason ?

Then show me what is the alternative to "horrendous austerity" for indebted, poorly administered and econolically inefficient countries is, perhaps the US way ?