Trust, not in Thailand

[Tolley]

Even thou you should have had a contract and you know you should of I wouldnt see this as the end of the matter at all. If you want to salvage something then you need to continue trying to negotiate with the women in question.

How much did you sink into this venture? If not too much better just to let it lie and put it down to experience.?

You should learn a lesson thou you left temptation out there for others to take advantage of you and in Thailand that often ends up badly.

[ravip]

"In the west we have the concept of My word is my bond."

So, in the west 'contract' is something you read in your history books when at high school?

No...but a contract is often not required between 40 + year friends with an ounce of dignity.

40 + year friends

[ravip]

Where money is concerned, I think it is always good to do it the correct way, rather than on trust - where ever in the Universe you happen to live. Would never bother anyone in the end.

IMHO

[itchybum]

Where money is concerned, I think it is always good to do it the correct way, rather than on trust - where ever in the Universe you happen to live. Would never bother anyone in the end.

IMHO

Well....I agree, but then again some people have mates that they can rely upon.

Many years ago I loaned such a mate $40k on a handshake, got it back when agreed.

Another mate, $10k on a handshake...in fact no hand shake as it was by phone....unfortunately he died before paying it back and I did not have the heart to ask his wife now raising their twin kids alone.

[robblok]

"In the west we have the concept of My word is my bond."

So, in the west 'contract' is something you read in your history books when at high school?

No...but a contract is often not required between 40 + year friends with an ounce of dignity.

As i said earlier when I loaned money from my father I put it in writing. I trust him he trusts me but putting things on paper are a good thing. Quite normal actually he did the same thing with my younger brother and his own brother. There was never a problem or a feeling that this was about trust. It just makes it so much easier for all parties and prevents lots of problems and makes it clear what has been done and agreed upon.

[seajae]

You had no contract.

You were working toward selling your trees.Did you have a licence for this kind of business?

I believe growing anything for sale is against the law for anyone who is not a Thai in Thailand.

You were working ,if for pay or not, Then a work permit is required.

Did you have a work permit?

Her son is a high ranking officer too?

You have made yourself very vulnerable by not covering the required bases.

And now you are advertising it on the internet.

You think only farangs follow the content on these sites ?

Thai law enforcement uses Facebook to find suspicious activity.

It is a great law enforcement tool.

This is no secret.

My advise?

Learn your lesson and consider this a cheap one.

Follow the rules in the future.

Keep a low profile.

Keep quiet about this.

Don't hang yourself!

Good luck!

If I was certain this would end up financial then yes I would need a wp but it is a hobby, I do this because I love to get the results I do from my cross pollinations. Being disabled I am restricted to what I can do physically so to say that this is going to end up a business is simply wrong. I have my free website but do not have any business sites promoting/advertising(?) sales in Thailand, I did buy a couple of domains in case I did eventually decide to change what I do but I have since let them go. I am not breaking thai law at all nor do I need a wp to do what I am. I have never worked here, what I do is play/experimant with my plants to get new results for personal satisfaction, I am not capable of doing actual physical work because of my injury, I must pay someone to do it for me, what I do is I use a scalpel to open and emasculate the flower then add new pollen in the hope of getting a pod to develop and that is the extent of what I do. I share my knowledge freely online and that is not considered illegal here at all, you have obviously got your facts wrong and made a few wrong guesses but thanks for the concern

[Hedghog]

Seajae.

I for one hope you can move your trees to a safe haven.

And carry on with your hobby.

My landlady recently chopped one down,it was in the garden of a house I rent,You would be surprised how you miss the presence of such a tree.

Anyway I am no expert but took some cuttings,to replant.

Hopefully she will let them grow,if they do actually take.

OP,good luck.

[stickylies]

in thailand u should not be afraid in offending someone by asking a contract, as long as you explain that this is the best for BOTH parties and smile.

also, quite often i noticed that someone can be called "khun dee" today, "khun mai dee" tomorrow, and then "khun dee" again next week. and when there is an issue between thai and farang, most thai prefer not to interfere, even when the farang is right and is a friend. thai rak thai.

and, like some people pointed out, puan (my friend) does not mean the same thing here as friend in the west.

[norrona]

so the moral of the story is as correct as the title of the OP..... trust no one in Thailand...or anywhere else for that matter!

sad sad world isn't it

oh yes, draw up contracts for people the family have known for generations....as bizarre and insulting it is perceived to be for face etc it saves a lot of hurt

Edited September 30, 2013 by norrona

[rayongchelsea]

in thailand u should not be afraid in offending someone by asking a contract, as long as you explain that this is the best for BOTH parties and smile.

also, quite often i noticed that someone can be called "khun dee" today, "khun mai dee" tomorrow, and then "khun dee" again next week. and when there is an issue between thai and farang, most thai prefer not to interfere, even when the farang is right and is a friend. thai rak thai.

and, like some people pointed out, puan (my friend) does not mean the same thing here as friend in the west.

This is something I just don't understand. So many farangs don't want to offend or the wife says it's not needed, lose face etc..yet it's always the farangs money, the wife has no real financial education but is suddenly a genius..

Get a lawyer who can be trusted..it took me 10 years to find one after a couple of duds..no need to explain its in their interests, they don't care about yours invariably..just cover your own bases.

I am in dispute with a very reputable estate agent..signed the contract on a promise because I had dealt with the same company in the uk, in a rush, first time my lawyer hasn't reviewed something I have to sign..bingo..court case..consumer protection board etc..

We are foreigners here..very few protections..but at least a contract is document for court proceedings..

There is very little trust...all very much someone else's problem, not my fault, no accountability..how can any trust be built within a society with these primary traits..

[seajae]

Seajae.

I for one hope you can move your trees to a safe haven.

And carry on with your hobby.

My landlady recently chopped one down,it was in the garden of a house I rent,You would be surprised how you miss the presence of such a tree.

Anyway I am no expert but took some cuttings,to replant.

Hopefully she will let them grow,if they do actually take.

OP,good luck.

thanks mate, already have some things in the pipe works, should have a definite before too long. Hoping to be able to move the trees in the new year to a new area permanently.

[kevvy]

Seajae.

I for one hope you can move your trees to a safe haven.

And carry on with your hobby.

My landlady recently chopped one down,it was in the garden of a house I rent,You would be surprised how you miss the presence of such a tree.

Anyway I am no expert but took some cuttings,to replant.

Hopefully she will let them grow,if they do actually take.

OP,good luck.

thanks mate, already have some things in the pipe works, should have a definite before too long. Hoping to be able to move the trees in the new year to a new area permanently.

I wonder where that might be ,,,,,

some where they trees can get an ocean view....lucky trees

Edited September 30, 2013 by kevvy

[Hedghog]

It could all work out very nicely.

A frangipani beach resort in the making.

[kevvy]

It could all work out very nicely.

A frangipani beach resort in the making.

no , it will be a deep sea fishing club with frangipani trees around it.well that is the plan.

Edited September 30, 2013 by kevvy

[ravip]

One of many stories. When it comes to "land" never ever trust anybody in this country.

Any "other country" you can?

[ravip]

Another rule of the thumb...

Loan what you can afford to loose.

There would be very much less whiners in the world today!

[96tehtarp]

"I realize we should have had a contract written up which I wanted but the family said that she was very trustworthy and would not do anything bad, looks like their idea of a good friend has flown, money beats everything here obviously."

What you said.

Don't suppose verbal contracts hold up in Thailand?

The OP's wife should have known that you absolutely do not need to have a contract written up. It's simply untrue that contracts need to be written up for renting plots of land.

These contracts come pre-written on "fill in the blank forms" that cost about 1 baht. (carbon paper is usually free).

I go to the Kamnan's shop and fill in the blank spaces and have it signed and witnessed there. Kamnan's shop has a photocopier for ID cards, etc. 1 baht per copy.

One could even download an English "fill in the blank form" from the net, and use that. English language contracts are legal in Thailand too.

The OP has been scammed.

Q: By who?

A: ???

If you are not very careful with your wits and money your bank account will look like her's did before she met you.

[MobileContent]

Renting land often needs a contract when you pay for years in advance.

A contract is seldom used via close family members.

[kikoman]

The only option you have left is to purchase the land, as you should have done in the first place before you spent the money, time and effort on land that you did not own.

You stand to take a financial loss any way, you state the trees are nearing the money earning stage, the doubling of the asking price is the least of your worries the other option is losing every thing, I hope you have a rental agreement in writing.

Anyone that puts a great amount of money into property that he or his wife does not own is foolish, and you chose to blame Thai's for not safe guarding your investment onto their property, It is your prime responsibility to make sure your investment was safe and you did not, so in that context you need to share part of the blame.

Year after year Falangs post incidents like yours and next year will not be difference another story will surface.

Never invest your money to improve the value of some one else's land, that is a mistake not only in Thailand but any other country in the world.

Good Luck