Cameron backs down on urgent Syria strikes

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

This topic is about Cameron (UK).

[mania]

Now that UK has done the democratic thing, it's going to be interesting to see what France and USA do, seeing as they are the other 2 main proponents of "doing" something about Syria. France (I believe) is ambivalent but rhetoric might win the day there, whereas USA (I think) has painted itself into a corner and Congress is basically scared of taking a vote. Obama is now in a lose-lose situation and really needs to force congress into a vote.

What kind of message does all this send aspiring democracies - not least of which is Thailand?

What you say is true & will be interesting to see what develops.

I think France will go full steam same as in Libya

US as you say is seemingly cornered in a box of Obama's own making.

It is not too late & never is too late when it comes to doing the right thing as Cameron did.

( by right thing I mean honoring his duty as PM of the UK )

It was obvious Cameron personally wanted one thing but in the end he sided properly with those that

employ him. As it should be

Edited August 30, 2013 by mania

[jpinx]

I doff my hat to Cameron - even tough I personally think he is a *** *** *****. He has risen higher than the vast majority of elected members in any country, and in spite of the reports of "furiousness" from No10, I believe he will actually reap the rewards of this stance in the near future.

I still won't vote for him, but then - - what's the alternative ???

[VegasVic]

I read a great commentray about this on The Economist. The The poster basically said that while a regime that gasses its citizens is deplorable, countries must "evolve" on their own. He used the example of the UK, the many bloody wars endured before it evolved as a beacon of personal freedom, rule of law and representative government. Syria is now in a bloody civil war and I do not see how the west can resolve this issue for them.

Mr. Cameron is correct to back off and respect the wishes of the UK majority.

It's not a matter whether the west can solve the problem or not, it's whether they should be involved. The west has done more than enough meddling in the ME over the last 60 years. The best thing the US can do is to stay out of it, although that won't happen as the petrodollar is at stake.

The entire region is a powder keg just waiting to go off. I am sure the west has war-gamed all the scenarios, but I don't see a way that even a surgical strike by the west on Syria doesn't cause retaliation by Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and possibly Egypt. Syria and Iran launch attacks on American assets and also attack Israel. Israel retaliates in kind and hopefully doesn't go nuclear. Where it escalates from there is anyone's guess. If Russia becomes involved the doomsday clock gets just a little closer to midnight.

Most people are unaware that Damascus is only about 70 miles from the plains of Megiddo. "Kings from all over the world will come and do battle, and there will be great weaping and knashing of teeth, only then will Christ return and bring forth a thousand years of peace on earth" John of Patmos A slight paraphrase to be sure, but you get the idea. Israel will not "go nuclear" right away, however the potential for the deployment of tactical nuclear weapons at some point, in particular with regards to Iran, is a very real possibility.

[lomatopo]

Given the emotional rhetoric, and name-calling, it seems like the results of the vote came as a surprise. The Conservative Whips must have thought/assumed they had a majority, but maybe they should have waited a bit, twisted a few arms, just to make sure they wouldn't suffer this ignominious defeat?

One assumes that some subsequent claimed action in Syria, or last-minute intelligence, which allows for another vote could change the outcome.

Not sure Obama might do, we're heading into a long holiday weekend in the U.S., which may, or may not, constrain him. Hopefully whatever he decides is part of a well thought out plan, rather than just a quick raining down of missiles meant to "teach" someone a lesson?

[VegasVic]

Now that UK has done the democratic thing, it's going to be interesting to see what France and USA do, seeing as they are the other 2 main proponents of "doing" something about Syria. France (I believe) is ambivalent but rhetoric might win the day there, whereas USA (I think) has painted itself into a corner and Congress is basically scared of taking a vote. Obama is now in a lose-lose situation and really needs to force congress into a vote.

What kind of message does all this send aspiring democracies - not least of which is Thailand?

What you say is true & will be interesting to see what develops.

I think France will go full steam same as in Libya

US as you say is seemingly cornered in a box of Obama's own making.

It is not too late & never is too late when it comes to doing the right thing as Cameron did.

( by right thing I mean honoring his duty as PM of the UK )

It was obvious Cameron personally wanted one thing but in the end he sided properly with those that

employ him. As it should be

Obama has indeed painted himself into a corner of his own making, a definate lose-lose situation. If the odsmakers were making book on this I

imagine it would be around 5:2 against the U.S., taking unilateral action. The U.S. will wind up with egg on their face and looking like a paper tiger for the time being, however newtonian mechanics will rule the day in the long run here, there is far too much pent up energy for this situation to calm down on its own and just dissapate.

[MikeOboe57]

Good to see that a majority of British MPs have learned a lesson or two from the Iraq disaster. America and its neocon bullshxt advisors like Max Boot are still a long way away from that.

The recent Reuters-Ipsos scientific survey shows 9% of Americans want the U.S. to intervene in Syria - that's nine percent. The British parliament fell 13 votes shy of intervening, which is slightly less than a half of 'em.

Sixty percent of Americans are absolutely opposed, meaning even in the event chemical weapons were used, which we now see have in fact been used (by somebody).

Congress won't call a vote because at this point in developments they don't want to, or feel obligated not to contradict or undermine the commander in chief.

Prez Obama is doing what presidents sometimes have to do, i.e., make an important judgement call as he sees the call as having to be made.

People should use more caution and good judgement than to make short, sharp and blindly sweeping and self-righteous claims about an entire population and its government.

My mistake, I should have written "The American Government" to make it clear.

So 91% of the American population are more or less against an intervention in Syria yet Obama feels compelled to dump a few billions of taxpayer money into Syria to assist Al-Queda and its allies in taking over the country. And I thought after "9/11" Al-Queda had been permanently tagged as "enemy number 1"?

And let's not forget another issue:

"October 1st [2013] will see the need for the Obama administration getting a measure to tide the country over and to keep it from going bankrupt. Then, in November the Obama administration will need to get agreement to raise the limit that is legally authorized on the borrowing authority. If it doesn’t, then it will face bankruptcy once again since it will default on payments." http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-07-26/us-government-will-go-bankrupt

The ugly fact stands that not a single US intervention in Europe and the middle east in recent years has brought any improvement or stability in the countries involved. Kosovo is the first country run by organized crime and the "hub" of human trafficking, Iraq is bleeding to death (over 800 civilians killed in August alone, total over 120.000 since "mission accomplished 2003"), Libya is descending further into chaos and is the main weapon supplier for the Syrian "rebels".

As a former NATO peacekeeper (in the light of recent events this now sounds like a sick joke) in Yugoslavia and as a former Military Observer for the United Nations I am amazed by the stubbornness of the American Government to stumble from one blunder to the next, leaving behind a trail of instability, blood and violence.

Agreed - but to be fair - it's not only the USA that has been at fault - France, UK , and others have screwed up pretty much everything they have touched since WW2.

Precisely since the Crimean War. But we can also be sure that Cameron will clandestinely order the Secret Service and the SAS to continue their attempts to destabilize Syria and train and equip the "rebels".

[jpinx]

........ and against the backdrop of French/US "fury" that UK has decided something democratically -- we have this little gem....

Kerry asks Iran to free US men

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23874981#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa

and this......

US envoy set for North Korea appeal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23894467#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa

Edited August 30, 2013 by jpinx

[mania]

Cameron fallen in Al Qaeda hands, It was them who use chemicals weapons. Look at Iraq, They are fuc_ked big time with no hope of resurrection.

Back off , leave it to the UN.

Since when was it the responsibility of the west to intervene in the internal affairs of other countries that are not threatening them?

Why doesn't Obama leave it up to Saudi and the Emirates to do the heavy lifting this time? They have all the money in the world with the oil so expensive.

Why should a taxpayer in England have to support rebels that hate Christians.

I don't remember any middle eastern country coming to sort out the UK's problem during the Troubles.

Don't just leave it to the UN. Don't do anything.

If it is our responsibility to help the innocent, why aren't we in Darfur, the Congo, Yemen and a host of other countries, and where was the west during the massacres in Rawanda. It's just hypocrisy to say that we have to help them in Syria.

Yes on the heavy lifting

Look at Turkey right next door & said to have helped the escalation

"many hold Turkey responsible for the escalation of the crisis. Turkey allowed its border to turn into a free-passage zone for anyone and everyone, and Turkey also kept a close eye on the flow of radical Islamist groups into Syria in an attempt to bring down the Assad regime."

Yet they say probably all they can provide is logistical support in any strike against Syria?

But they make a lot of noise about all the things that could happen if others do not act.

Experts in Turkey Differ on Syria Policy

Edited August 30, 2013 by mania

[Mosha]

And I always thought the French were cowards!!!!! A pussy big time!!!!

Do they have a Foreign Legion branch in the French Air Force?

[F430murci]

Syria crisis: What is in Damascus letter to UK?

29 August 2013 Last updated at 13:49 BST

The Speaker of the Syrian Parliament has written to Commons Speaker John Bercow inviting a parliamentary delegation to the Syrian capital to check the UN's conclusions.

The letter added that Syria will sue those responsible in British courts if the UK attacks - which it said would be an "aggressive and unprovoked act of war".

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23883048

[Chicog]

Nonsense propaganda! Neither Iraq nor Syria would have needed any assistance to produce chemical weapons. Any country/industry that has the technology/ability to produce pesticides can produce the most lethal of chemical agents. Many of the chemical warfare agents were first produced with 1916 era technology. Both Saddam's Iraq and Syria certainly possess(ed) that level of technology. And nerve agents were first created while a certain company was trying to develop a better pesticide. That was in 1936!

It's common knowledge that US companies supplied precursors to Iraq in the '80's.

[Baloo22]

Nonsense propaganda! Neither Iraq nor Syria would have needed any assistance to produce chemical weapons. Any country/industry that has the technology/ability to produce pesticides can produce the most lethal of chemical agents. Many of the chemical warfare agents were first produced with 1916 era technology. Both Saddam's Iraq and Syria certainly possess(ed) that level of technology. And nerve agents were first created while a certain company was trying to develop a better pesticide. That was in 1936!

It's common knowledge that US companies supplied precursors to Iraq in the '80's.

It is not "common knowledge" but rather common ignorance. It is commonly repeated nonsense spouted by know-nothing leftists with zero knowledge of chemical agents. Of course, it needs no proof either! They just keep repeating it and so now it is quoted as "common knowledge". As I have previously shown, countries like Iraq and Syria have no need of outside help to produce chemical agents. The technology to produce many such agents has existed since World War I.

[Steely Dan]

Given the emotional rhetoric, and name-calling, it seems like the results of the vote came as a surprise. The Conservative Whips must have thought/assumed they had a majority, but maybe they should have waited a bit, twisted a few arms, just to make sure they wouldn't suffer this ignominious defeat?

One assumes that some subsequent claimed action in Syria, or last-minute intelligence, which allows for another vote could change the outcome.

Not sure Obama might do, we're heading into a long holiday weekend in the U.S., which may, or may not, constrain him. Hopefully whatever he decides is part of a well thought out plan, rather than just a quick raining down of missiles meant to "teach" someone a lesson?

It did occur to me that in view of the 'special relationship' UK governments of all hues would come under strong pressure to at least officially follow the U.S lead. I do suspect that if the government played a lacklustre game in the debate prior to voting it may be because they were quietly hoping to be defeated.

[Steely Dan]

It certainly leaves president Obama with a headache, what with his allies taking a step backwards.

http://www.debka.com/article/23238/White-House-ready-for-solo-strike-on-Syria-as-US-allies-and-influence-fade-

The shock Thursday, Aug. 29, of Britain’s David Cameron parliamentary defeat – thereby knocking America’s foremost partner out of the coming strike against Syria – highlighted public opposition to the operation in America and criticism in the top US military command.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't think the attack will happen..

You might be right, but Obama will look really foolish after the red line remark and all the stuff that they leaked about the operation in advance.

[giggles]

the French are still on board and theres evidence of spied on conversations that assad and co are guilty .next week is mooted for a blasting.

Miliband and co are yellow scum who will regret it because UKIP gain an advantage over this

Edited August 30, 2013 by giggles

[Exsexyman]

the French are still on board and theres evidence of spied on conversations that assad and co are guilty .next week is mooted for a blasting.

Miliband and co are yellow scum who will regret it because UKIP gain an advantage over this

From 'cheese eating surrender monkeys' to the USA's new best friends! What a difference a few years make!

[F430murci]

I love how people want to lend some credibility to anything said by some piece of human garbage like Assad. So Assad says he did not do it. What do you expect him to say? Even worse is that someone would believe anything he says.

Well he also denied one of his planes dropped napalm on the school yard in the video below. Who hear believes that? Do the rebels have fighters cruising around dropping napalm?

http://www.today.com/video/today/52882810#52882810

[bangon04]

Time for the western powers.

Put up or shut up.

Hopefully the latter.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

As a taxpayer I feel compelled to agree. The sooner the UK stops pretending it is a superpower the better for all concerned.

I have already paid for my cruise missile over my lifetime...

[F430murci]

the French are still on board and theres evidence of spied on conversations that assad and co are guilty .next week is mooted for a blasting.

Miliband and co are yellow scum who will regret it because UKIP gain an advantage over this

From 'cheese eating surrender monkeys' to the USA's new best friends! What a difference a few years make!

Does calling the French monkeys somehow prop up a deep seeded inferiority complex?

[VegasVic]

Given the emotional rhetoric, and name-calling, it seems like the results of the vote came as a surprise. The Conservative Whips must have thought/assumed they had a majority, but maybe they should have waited a bit, twisted a few arms, just to make sure they wouldn't suffer this ignominious defeat?

One assumes that some subsequent claimed action in Syria, or last-minute intelligence, which allows for another vote could change the outcome.

Not sure Obama might do, we're heading into a long holiday weekend in the U.S., which may, or may not, constrain him. Hopefully whatever he decides is part of a well thought out plan, rather than just a quick raining down of missiles meant to "teach" someone a lesson?

It did occur to me that in view of the 'special relationship' UK governments of all hues would come under strong pressure to at least officially follow the U.S lead. I do suspect that if the government played a lacklustre game in the debate prior to voting it may be because they were quietly hoping to be defeated.

Steely Dan, I too believe that Cameron was half hoping for the outcome that happened, and it may very well be the right choice for now. There will come a time (in the not too distant future) when real military action will be required with the Syria/Iran situation, better to have everyone on board for the real fight than to have a few with you for a politically advantageous pre game show and then have a cry wolf syndrome later The Obama administration is in a massive self destruct mode at present and this military strike was just a misdirection ploy to try and keep peoples minds off Benghazi, the IRS scandal, the NSA scandal and Obama cares' failure before it even gets launched BTW your quote about liberals is spot on, and never in the history of liberal thought have there been as many narrow minded, closed thinking and tunnel visioned individuals as we have in the Democrat party here in the U.S. today.

[Soutpeel]

the French are still on board and theres evidence of spied on conversations that assad and co are guilty .next week is mooted for a blasting.

Miliband and co are yellow scum who will regret it because UKIP gain an advantage over this

From 'cheese eating surrender monkeys' to the USA's new best friends! What a difference a few years make!

Does calling the French monkeys somehow prop up a deep seeded inferiority complex?

nothing to do with an inferority complex at all

I do believe he is referring to the last little jaunt into the middle east by the US and the french opposed the invasion and what was the line from that particular US president ?..."if your not with us your against us"....freedom fries, french wine being poured down the drains, boycotts of french cheese..... in essence vile anti-french sentiment in the US, but now the US is calling them their best buddies...

So one could logically suppose, seeing as the UK is opposing military action Syria...can one suppose there will be a mass burning of Beatles records again, English breakfast tea being thrown into the sea, No HP sauce on US citizens bacon snadwiches, people setting fire to their Rolls Royces, Bentley's, Aston Martins etc..you get the drift....

Tally Ho...

[F430murci]

the French are still on board and theres evidence of spied on conversations that assad and co are guilty .next week is mooted for a blasting.

Miliband and co are yellow scum who will regret it because UKIP gain an advantage over this

From 'cheese eating surrender monkeys' to the USA's new best friends! What a difference a few years make!

Does calling the French monkeys somehow prop up a deep seeded inferiority complex?

nothing to do with an inferority complex at all

I do believe he is referring to the last little jaunt into the middle east by the US and the french opposed the invasion and what was the line from that particular US president ?..."if your not with us your against us"....freedom fries, french wine being poured down the drains, boycotts of french cheese..... in essence vile anti-french sentiment in the US, but now the US is calling them their best buddies...

So one could logically suppose, seeing as the UK is opposing military action Syria...can one suppose there will be a mass burning of Beatles records again, English breakfast tea being thrown into the sea, No HP sauce on US citizens bacon snadwiches, people setting fire to their Rolls Royces, Bentley's, Aston Martins etc..you get the drift....

Tally Ho...

<deleted> are talking about?

[jpinx]

the French are still on board and theres evidence of spied on conversations that assad and co are guilty .next week is mooted for a blasting.

Miliband and co are yellow scum who will regret it because UKIP gain an advantage over this

From 'cheese eating surrender monkeys' to the USA's new best friends! What a difference a few years make!

Does calling the French monkeys somehow prop up a deep seeded inferiority complex?

nothing to do with an inferority complex at all

I do believe he is referring to the last little jaunt into the middle east by the US and the french opposed the invasion and what was the line from that particular US president ?..."if your not with us your against us"....freedom fries, french wine being poured down the drains, boycotts of french cheese..... in essence vile anti-french sentiment in the US, but now the US is calling them their best buddies...

So one could logically suppose, seeing as the UK is opposing military action Syria...can one suppose there will be a mass burning of Beatles records again, English breakfast tea being thrown into the sea, No HP sauce on US citizens bacon snadwiches, people setting fire to their Rolls Royces, Bentley's, Aston Martins etc..you get the drift....

Tally Ho...

Made my morning !! Thank you!

[SinCityGr8One]

I personally will never eat Bangers and Mash again! Sniff!

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Chicog]

<deleted> Do we have to start calling it a "Full Freedom Breakfast" now?

[rijb]

Ordinary Americans are just as skeptical of military action as ordinary Britons are.

It's always fun to pick on the French. But, they think the Brits are too boring to bother with.

However, some Americans are interested in what (allegedly) happened in Britain (Downton Abbey) before it became a failed empire.

Edited September 1, 2013 by rijb

[Scott]

I am not sure that almost every thread needs to be about America. Please stay on topic.

[jackr]

The UK comes off looking like a critter with its tail between its legs, after the ultimatum from Putin. Big time loss of credibility from the UK.

What tripe. If anything, it has increased the credibility of the UK (the decision has not one iota to do with anything Putin has ranted on about) and now Obama is following suit. The French also don't want it... don't be swayed by the will of one man (Hollande) being representative of an entire nation.

Its a horrible scenario--all the slaughter--and Assad has to go, but for whom? We really should not be getting involved.