The original thai people.

[willyumiii]

Thai people have only been Thai people since 1938 or 1948 depending on what you believe. (see attached from Wikipedia)

Before they were Thai,they were Siamese!

On July 20th, 1948, the Siamese constituent assembly voted to change the name of Siam to Thailand, the change to come into effect the following year. Muang Thai or Thailand means ‘land of the free’ and the name had been changed before, in 1939 under the fascist military dictatorship of Field Marshal Luang Phibunsongkhram, but the anti-Axis powers refused to recognise the new name after Siam allied herself with the Japanese and in 1942 declared war on the United States and the United Kingdom.

--------------------

Slightly incorrect in one detail about WWII.

The Thai/Siamese ambassador passed on the request from his government to the U.K. and war was declared between the U.K. and Siam by both countries.

However. the Thai/Siam ambassador refused to deliver the request to declare war against the U.S. from the Thai/Siam government to the U.S. government so Thailand/Siam never officially declared war against the U.S.

Yes, Thailand declared war against both countries, but the declaration against the U.S. was never delivered and there is a question whether it was ever valid or not.

But it is only a minor point, it made no real difference in the conduct of the war.

Thanks for the input Imafarang..

First, you should probably contact Wikipedia and correct their data. I believe they are very open to that if the corrections are valid.

Second...I think it is kind of a sad statement that someone's country could declare war and it " really made no difference".

Thailand was very lucky that certain people convinced the U.S. to ignore the declaration of war and continue to be friendly to Thailand after WWII was over.

[Kwasaki]

Good info on Thai history a bogaly minefield and don't forget the politic's.

[CMBob]

The people in Chiang Mai strikingly similar to the Shan in Burma and much paler than original 'Dai' people, even in China...

Various histories (including David Wyatt's) mention the abandonment of Chiangmai (and Chiangrai) for about 20 years in the late 18th century due to the constant warring with the Burmese. And those histories specifically note that the Lanna King (Kawila?) re-populated Chiangmai and Chiangrai from three specific villages - two in the Shan State and one in southern China.

When I occasionally hear a comment that "oh, he or she looks like a 'Shan' or 'Thai Yai', I tend to just ignore the comment as historical ignorance (plus I've seen plenty of native northern Thais as well as Burmese who've recently come over the border and, for the life of me, I can't see any general difference!). About the same as somebody telling you that this or that person looks like a "Lao" versus somebody from Udon Thani.

[Ws93]

Anyone know the history of Rayong and Suphan Buri people? I like to know what my ancesters were like. I presume rice farmers..

[daveAustin]

Thai people have only been Thai people since 1938 or 1948 depending on what you believe. (see attached from Wikipedia)

Before they were Thai,they were Siamese!

Wiki's useful but I wouldn't rely on it. Unless locked and verified, articles can be edited by practically anyone.

The titles Thailand/Siam have gone back and for a number of times over recent centuries.

[IMA_FARANG]

Thai people have only been Thai people since 1938 or 1948 depending on what you believe. (see attached from Wikipedia)

Before they were Thai,they were Siamese!

On July 20th, 1948, the Siamese constituent assembly voted to change the name of Siam to Thailand, the change to come into effect the following year. Muang Thai or Thailand means ‘land of the free’ and the name had been changed before, in 1939 under the fascist military dictatorship of Field Marshal Luang Phibunsongkhram, but the anti-Axis powers refused to recognise the new name after Siam allied herself with the Japanese and in 1942 declared war on the United States and the United Kingdom.

--------------------

Slightly incorrect in one detail about WWII.

The Thai/Siamese ambassador passed on the request from his government to the U.K. and war was declared between the U.K. and Siam by both countries.

However. the Thai/Siam ambassador refused to deliver the request to declare war against the U.S. from the Thai/Siam government to the U.S. government so Thailand/Siam never officially declared war against the U.S.

Yes, Thailand declared war against both countries, but the declaration against the U.S. was never delivered and there is a question whether it was ever valid or not.

But it is only a minor point, it made no real difference in the conduct of the war.

Thanks for the input Imafarang..

First, you should probably contact Wikipedia and correct their data. I believe they are very open to that if the corrections are valid.

Second...I think it is kind of a sad statement that someone's country could declare war and it " really made no difference".

Thailand was very lucky that certain people convinced the U.S. to ignore the declaration of war and continue to be friendly to Thailand after WWII was over.

-----------------

There is a lot of history involved there, and this is not the place to go over that.

Let's just say that say that Thailand, and Thai opposition groups to Japanese occupation, provided valuable service to the allied forces (including Britain) during WWII in:

• The location, number and movements of Japanese forces in Thailand
• Rescuing downed Allied pilots from Thailand and back to Allied controlled areas in Burma and India.
• And, most importantly, providing intelligence on Japanese intentions in Burma.

My Thai girlfriend's (long since deceased) father was a Thai Seri (free Thai) anti-Japanese group member. during the war and the family is quite proud of the commendation his group received after the war from the U.K. for their service during WWII.

Edited October 19, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[khwaibah]

Spotted yesterday when SHMBO and friends were collection herbs and magic mushrooms Just north of the Thai/Cambodia Border. GPS

14.4323778674, 103.566837183 Old Siam Border Boundary Marker.

[willyumiii]

No doubt about it the Mongals put themselves about.

An interesting book about Marco Polo called " The Journeyer" , written by Gary Jennings talks about the Mongols excursions into this area and what is now Vietnam.

If I recall correctly it states that it was too hot and humid here for them, so rather than occupy the area, they set up a system of local rulers who then paid tribute to the Khan.

Good book and an interesting read.

[mitsubishi]

Did u know the original thais came from china from the dai tribe in yunnan china and they conquered the various ppl and tribes in the south east asian region and those darker skinned ppl eventually took up thai culture and customs and names and became thaiized. Same thing with the ppl in issan but it occured later.

Possibly. Also there was some admixture from India. Yet the original Thai were darker until the more advanced paler Asian tribes came along...

[NanLaew]

Since there's a very high plateau to the immediate north and west of Thailand, the suggestion that people migrated from the north many moons ago seems a bit of a stretch. Sure nowadays there's airplanes and the Chinese are building highways and railroads but back then?

I guess they could have migrated south from Zomia. But doubtful since the whole Zomian premise is being free of nationhood and resisting becoming a vassal state.

[TravelerEastWest]

A very interesting thread!

Recently I learned about the Lawa people who are said to have been in Thailand before the Tai people - at least in the north of Thailand.

[Kwasaki]

A very interesting thread!

Recently I learned about the Lawa people who are said to have been in Thailand before the Tai people - at least in the north of Thailand.

Yea right on I use to hate history until I came here and there are many references to Thailand's passed history although some of it is clouded as you go back many years.

You can still get a fair assessment of what is a fair appraisal of what is known but maybe many things are still to come to light.

I have a written history account and I use my words carefully of what I believe to be as of now of the Thai peoples arrival.

[gk10002000]

Speaking of origins, in Southern China there is a region where the "Dai" people live. I have seen several Television shows, one recently on CCCTV. The dance and music and dress sure look a lot like Thai.

[ultimate weapon]

The people in Japan and Korea also originate from China.

Utter rot.

Whilst there is still some debate, the Japanese are descendants of aboriginal people (living in Japan for at least 10,000 years), mixed with people from the north (principally Korea, but also places like Mongolia, China, Siberia), and from the south (Pacific islands, SE Asia).

Koreans are believed to be descendants of people from Siberia who moved to Korea during the bronze age.

The total lack of similarity between the Japanese, Korean and Chinese languages makes it pretty obvious they don't share a common root.

(The fact that Japanese uses a Chinese script as one of its three forms of writing is irrelevant.)

japanese use chinese script so they come from china why you say it's irrevalent?

You're obviously one of those ppl that debate based on emotions rather than logic.

[CodyB]

No, Japanese people are not ethnically Chinese. It's debateable where they come from, but there are great many differences from Mainland Han Chinese people and what now constitutes ethnic Japanese people.

Mongoloid blood for sure, but they seem to come further north and have quite different physical characteristics. Compound that with the fact that there is probably a higher proportion of Austronesian blood admixture in the general populace, you could draw similarities between some Japanese people and Filipinos at times.

The people in Japan and Korea also originate from China.

Utter rot.

Whilst there is still some debate, the Japanese are descendants of aboriginal people (living in Japan for at least 10,000 years), mixed with people from the north (principally Korea, but also places like Mongolia, China, Siberia), and from the south (Pacific islands, SE Asia).

Koreans are believed to be descendants of people from Siberia who moved to Korea during the bronze age.

The total lack of similarity between the Japanese, Korean and Chinese languages makes it pretty obvious they don't share a common root.

(The fact that Japanese uses a Chinese script as one of its three forms of writing is irrelevant.)

japanese use chinese script so they come from china why you say it's irrevalent?

You're obviously one of those ppl that debate based on emotions rather than logic.

[oliviathomas]

thank snake for this info abiut thai peoples

[AyG]

The people in Japan and Korea also originate from China.

Utter rot.

Whilst there is still some debate, the Japanese are descendants of aboriginal people (living in Japan for at least 10,000 years), mixed with people from the north (principally Korea, but also places like Mongolia, China, Siberia), and from the south (Pacific islands, SE Asia).

Koreans are believed to be descendants of people from Siberia who moved to Korea during the bronze age.

The total lack of similarity between the Japanese, Korean and Chinese languages makes it pretty obvious they don't share a common root.

(The fact that Japanese uses a Chinese script as one of its three forms of writing is irrelevant.)

japanese use chinese script so they come from china why you say it's irrevalent?

You're obviously one of those ppl that debate based on emotions rather than logic.

Uh, the English use Latin script to write their language. Does that mean they're descendants of Romans?

Vietnamese also uses Latin script. Are they also Roman?

The fact that the Japanese use Chinese script is because they didn't have a successful script of their own, so they "borrowed" the Chinese script. (In fact, at the the time the educated elite was very highly influenced by Chinese culture which made the borrowing easier.)

It's the same with Thai script. It was "borrowed" from Khmer script. If you follow the "borrowings" back far enough you come to an Indic script. That's not to say that Thai people are Indians.

I'm not sure it is I who is lacking in logic here.

[NativeSon360]

No I had no Idea , I think that because we all have so many different agendas we suffer for the knowledge of ancestry , I am sure now I will look into the archives to substiant , "not a real word" , so be the language .substansiate , wrong again ,ahhhh shtrttttttttt.

SUBSTANTIATE, Cheers

[NativeSon360]

Original Thais are descendant of the Malay genome; the indigeneous people throughout all Southeast Asia, including the Philippine Islands.

[AyG]

Original Thais are descendant of the Malay genome; the indigeneous people throughout all Southeast Asia, including the Philippine Islands.

Is that the product of some supremacist Malay propaganda? Or is there actually any scientific evidence? Please do share.

[NativeSon360]

Your eyes are a camera. Try getting yourself out of the cocoon of Thailand (that you've obviously been living in), for a change.

Then do some serious exploritory traveling thru-out SE Asian, to get an education of the Malay genetic facts. Capiche?

Edited March 6, 2015 by NativeSon360

[AyG]

Your eyes are a camera. Try getting yourself out of the cocoon of Thailand (that you've obviously been living in), for a change.

Then do some serious exploritory traveling thru-out SE Asian, to get an education of the Malay genetic facts. Capiche?

Ah! So you don't have any actual evidence other than all SE Asian people look the same to you - like Malaysians.

And when questioned you resort to ad hominem attack.

[Sashanan]

The original Tai peoples came from Guangxi, China and in modern times are known as the Zhuang. They are far more genetically related to Vietnamese peoples as opposed to the Thai (Siamese).

The Thai (Siamese) came to speak a Tai language through a process called Language Shift. The majority of Thai-Siamese are related to Kuy, Mon, Khmer, and Malay peoples who settled Thailand far before the arrival of Tai immigrants.

[NativeSon360]

Your eyes are a camera. Try getting yourself out of the cocoon of Thailand (that you've obviously been living in), for a change.

Then do some serious exploritory traveling thru-out SE Asian, to get an education of the Malay genetic facts. Capiche?

Ah! So you don't have any actual evidence other than all SE Asian people look the same to you - like Malaysians.

And when questioned you resort to ad hominem attack.

Edited March 6, 2015 by NativeSon360

[Kwasaki]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_people

[NativeSon360]

Your eyes are a camera. Try getting yourself out of the cocoon of Thailand (that you've obviously been living in), for a change.

Then do some serious exploritory traveling thru-out SE Asian, to get an education of the Malay genetic facts. Capiche?

Ah! So you don't have any actual evidence other than all SE Asian people look the same to you - like Malaysians.

And when questioned you resort to ad hominem attack.

Considering that I've made only 514 post reply statements from my desktop, while generating 588 profile views (from other members of this forum), apparently my considered opinions have seriously impacted with more than just a few

Edited March 6, 2015 by NativeSon360

[phrodan]

Your eyes are a camera. Try getting yourself out of the cocoon of Thailand (that you've obviously been living in), for a change.

Then do some serious exploritory traveling thru-out SE Asian, to get an education of the Malay genetic facts. Capiche?

Ah! So you don't have any actual evidence other than all SE Asian people look the same to you - like Malaysians.

And when questioned you resort to ad hominem attack.

Considering that I've made only 514 post reply statements from my desktop, while generating 588 profile views (from other members of this forum), apparently my considered opinions have seriously impacted with more than just a few

Deleted.

Don't feed the trolls.

Edited March 8, 2015 by phrodan

[cumgranosalum]

All countries are made up of migrating populations - they also intermingle.

Genetics are coming up with a few surprises as we often mistake language and culture as evidence of where people came from.

however I think two things are demonstrated on this thread - firslty the dire lack of general historical knowledge and how countries are formed by those in the Thai Visa community and secondly the dire lack of knowledge that Thai people have of their own real history.

[petercool]

An offensive post removed

[NativeSon360]

All countries are made up of migrating populations - they also intermingle.

Genetics are coming up with a few surprises as we often mistake language and culture as evidence of where people came from.

however I think two things are demonstrated on this thread - firslty the dire lack of general historical knowledge and how countries are formed by those in the Thai Visa community and secondly the dire lack of knowledge that Thai people have of their own real history.

A very clear-minded perspective. Thanks for sharing. Cheers.