Refusing to recognise the validity of newly issued UK passports

[transam]

Does sound like the usual UKG scam to relieve their nationals of cash for a piece of A4 paper. ................

[OJAS]

Does sound like the usual UKG scam to relieve their nationals of cash for a piece of A4 paper. ................

As I said, there is, in fact, no charge for this letter (perhaps the only good thing going here).

[sometime]

Hi

I read on this forum this week, Thai Immigration no longer transfer visas to a new passport, you have to re-apply, and Pay again.

[OJAS]

Hi

I read on this forum this week, Thai Immigration no longer transfer visas to a new passport, you have to re-apply, and Pay again.

True, but they do transfer extension of stay stamps (misleadingly referred to as "visas" in the Embassy letter).

[evadgib]

There's a fair amount of disinformation in this thread. If Thaivisa want to be taken seriously as a media outlet why don't they contact the Embassies re a familiarisation visit for their hierarchy & moderators?

Scott would surely have preferred Oates to have been inside the tent pissing outwards...

Edited September 1, 2013 by evadgib

[hansnl]

Same thing happened in Bangkok.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/635134-guarantee-letter-from-uk-embassy-with-new-passport/

It is all academic anyway since the validity of the extension of stay ends with the validity of your passport.

No transfer of Extensions from your old to your new passport.

NEW RULES!

[Sirius1935]

I can't answer your question which asks which Immigration offices require such a letter but I can tell you that I had my stamps transferred to my new British passport a couple of weeks ago at my nearest Immigration office in Mae Sai. No such letter or receipt was required. All in all it took 5 to 10 minutes. I didn't have to join the queue and it was all free.

[Suradit69]

If anyone can go to the trouble of making a fake UK passport to fool the Thai immigration, I'm certain that they can also make a fake embassy letter confirming the fake passport's authenticity. Are Thai immigration this stupid, or are they just trying everything to make it difficult for everyone?

" Are Thai immigration this stupid ..."

It would seem the point of the letter is to confirm the reason the passport is being replaced and that the previous passport is no longer valid and, if it was stolen or lost, that Immigrations be alerted that it might be used by someone else illegally.

I'm guessing that the signature and a raised seal over the signature are not that easy to duplicate and if it turns out that they don't match up with all the others coming through from the embassy, then that person and his "new" passport will go into the computer system and be flagged the next time he shows up at Immigrations.

I once wanted to use an out of date form previously supplied by the US embassy for income verification, but was told by the embassy that Immigrations was well aware which form was the one in current use and which signatures would be acceptable currently. I notice the letter they're using now is changed once again. For a forger to get the right letter and signatures for an embassy issued document might be more difficult than it appears.

So, no, they aren't that stupid and for most people attempting to forge the letter would probably cause a great deal more bother than getting it done right to begin with.

And if someone wants to make a big fuss about, it's unlikely to change the way that Immigrations operates, although it may make them all the more strict in the application of the procedure in reaction to the complaints.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Suradit69

[moe666]

Just to clarify: the issue is not simply one of requiring that the consular section of a foreign country politely ask the Thai Immigration Police to kindly transfer stamps to a new passport that the Thai Immigration Police already recognise as valid. it is that the Thai Immigration Police are requiring such a letter (or a receipt for payment) because they *do not* recognise the validity of the passport. This came across very clearly in a discussion that I had with an Immigration Officer last week: his rationale was that without external validation, they do not know whether or not a passport is valid, so they do not recognise it as such.

This is a diplomatic matter that has to be resolved between the Thai authorities and the authorities of foreign countries. It is not a matter to be addressed in a feedback from to the people who make the passports. Such forms are for matters of procedure, not foreign relations.

Stop wasting your time here and get the letter Immigration requested, it is so easy to go with the flow as opposed to trying to make something right in your own mine.

[VINCENT2012]

yes sir....! when you get a new passport from your ambassy they also give you a letter for the thai autorities.only your stupid ambassy staff did not tell you that...exactly like me.

luky boy i kept this letter with me and could give it to the immigration police when they asked for it.

you need this letter boy !

best luck to you

[ubonjoe]

Same thing happened in Bangkok.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/635134-guarantee-letter-from-uk-embassy-with-new-passport/

 

It is all academic anyway since the validity of the extension of stay ends with the validity of your passport.

No transfer of Extensions from your old to your new passport.

 

NEW RULES!

 

Not exactly correct.

Transfers can still be done.

If you currently have an extension the new rules do not apply to it. Even if it was less than a year because of passport validity they will still give the remainder of the full year when you renew it.

If you apply for a new extension with less than one year remaining on passport your extension will only be good to expiration date of your passport. When you get the new passport if it is before the extension ends they will transfer the stamps. You would then go back to immigration and apply for a new extension when shortened extension expires.

If your passport has less than a year of validity remaining what you have to do now is get a new passport before applying for extension if you want a full year.

[wayned]

wayned

The "Elected officials" will have had very little input to this mess. The smear of bureaucracy is, however clear.

The intention I have no doubt was good and sought to reduce passport fraud which emanated from some third world Embassies.

However, as always, the bureaucracy have failed to join all the dots !

I guess that I would have to disagree. You elected the officials that are now in charge of managing the bureaucracy that now exists, so it's their job and their responsibility to "fix it"!

[DagonKhan]

They want you to provide a receipt so do that. You received a receipt from Hong Kong via Dhl. You also have your old passport.. can't see a problem.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

I never received a receipt for mine.

I did for my children though, they put the receipt in with another document they had to return.

I suspect you only get a receipt if there are documents to be returned (e.g. birth certs, etc). As a straightforward renewal, mine didn't require any supporting documents.

But maybe you're right, presentation of an old passport might be a workaround.

[fijolli]

Hi I went a month ago for a 3 month ED visa ( I am doing a degree) I had to get this document. I had some trouble finding out at first what it was I needed. They were aggressive and very rude. I got my paper from the UK embassy and went back 1.30pm. 2 hours later I was told it was finished I saw the 12 month stamp and I was told to report every 3 months. I paid and was told to wait for my passport. I did 40 minutes later, it was being looked at by the same people who were rude to me about the UK embassy. They decided my paperwork was not right????. They negated the 12 month stamp for a 1 month stamp. When I asked why they told me to be quiet and to go or they would cancel it altogether. So far for 4 months on an ED visa it has cost me 6000 Baht. I wonder why I am bothering and what will happen the next time. Since it is a Degree, not a language course, that other people seemed to have no trouble getting. I live in Nong khai I have to go to BKK for this visa what a waste. I have another trip 2 weeks before I have to start school in Oct. I start to feel like a cow being milked and wonder at doing the right thing. It was easier on a tourist visa and now I have a bad first stamp in my new passport.

[Bagwan]

Just to clarify: the issue is not simply one of requiring that the consular section of a foreign country politely ask the Thai Immigration Police to kindly transfer stamps to a new passport that the Thai Immigration Police already recognise as valid. it is that the Thai Immigration Police are requiring such a letter (or a receipt for payment) because they *do not* recognise the validity of the passport. This came across very clearly in a discussion that I had with an Immigration Officer last week: his rationale was that without external validation, they do not know whether or not a passport is valid, so they do not recognise it as such.

This is a diplomatic matter that has to be resolved between the Thai authorities and the authorities of foreign countries. It is not a matter to be addressed in a feedback from to the people who make the passports. Such forms are for matters of procedure, not foreign relations.

So the Immigration Police admit that they cannot recognise a false passport. Why am I not surprised?

[ubonjoe]

Hi I went a month ago for a 3 month ED visa ( I am doing a degree) I had to get this document. I had some trouble finding out at first what it was I needed. They were aggressive and very rude. I got my paper from the UK embassy and went back 1.30pm. 2 hours later I was told it was finished I saw the 12 month stamp and I was told to report every 3 months. I paid and was told to wait for my passport. I did 40 minutes later, it was being looked at by the same people who were rude to me about the UK embassy. They decided my paperwork was not right????. They negated the 12 month stamp for a 1 month stamp. When I asked why they told me to be quiet and to go or they would cancel it altogether. So far for 4 months on an ED visa it has cost me 6000 Baht. I wonder why I am bothering and what will happen the next time. Since it is a Degree, not a language course, that other people seemed to have no trouble getting. I live in Nong khai I have to go to BKK for this visa what a waste. I have another trip 2 weeks before I have to start school in Oct. I start to feel like a cow being milked and wonder at doing the right thing. It was easier on a tourist visa and now I have a bad first stamp in my new passport.

Apparently they incorrectly gave you an extension of stay instead of 90 day immigrant visa entry.

They then corrected the error and gave you a 30 day under consideration stamp telling you to report back to immigration to get the 90 day stamp starting on the date you applied for the visa.

Why did you go to Bangkok? You could of crossed the bridge to Vientiane and gotten your visa there.

If you are living and going to school in Nong Khai you can you can get your extension at immigration there.

Edited September 2, 2013 by ubonjoe

[johnefallis]

My reply would be "sure, I'll just go to a real immigration office in a real country and spend my money there", leave, then present my new valid passport to immigration in the next country I arrive in.

[fijolli]

How about when you send your stuff off to HK you put an attached note asking for an authentication letter that the new passport (number) is a replacement for the old passport (number). Then see what happens.

Hi I added a remark as I had trouble also it is below.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

sound like its your embassy is the one that is backing up. mine gave me the letter without me even asking for it when they issued the passport.

mine placed a note in passport saying see old passport for visa

[FiestyFarang]

I received a UK Passport last year and it is one of the most impressive documents I have seen, with the photo not inserted but I imagine placed by lazer into the passport (smooth when rubbing a finger over the picture) and with extensive security features, like silver metal around the photo like on the fifty pound note, in addition to watermarks, security electronic chip, each page being numbered etc. I think a letter is pointless as you point out, if someone had the capability for forge a passport of this quality it would be basic to forge a letter. Even if they could do so it would be more profitable for forge banknotes as in fact I imagine the passport has more security features.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

My reply would be "sure, I'll just go to a real immigration office in a real country and spend my money there", leave, then present my new valid passport to immigration in the next country I arrive in.

i dont actually believe that would be your response, but i will play let's pretend if you feel the need to continue your internet posturing

[Stjohnm]

Unless its an emergency, I've always waited until I'm back in the UK to get a new Passport from the IPA office in London, get little agro from the Thai Embassy there. I did loose my passport once, the Embassy issued me a letter with the replacement & armed with that & the Police Report Immigration gave me little grief when getting the new PP stamped up.

[leewood]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

The UK authorities do not enclose such a document when they send new passports. The Swedish government would seem to take its responsibilities towards its citizens seriously. The solution you cite is one of a number that I had determined to include in my letter. Thanks for your helpful comment.

Hi, I am a UK citizen and although i have never had the need to do this, i havre always found UK Thai consulate to be helpful. I think an email to them requesting a letter meeting your requirements might help before alienating the Thai authorities by kicking up a fuss. You know the score here (or maybe you don't) but generally the harder you play, the harder they play back. Just try and keep it simple mate and try not to cause yourself any trouble. Last thing you want is somebody deciding to put a black mark on your immigration file for Thailand and it could very easily happen if you alienate them......or it could cost you a lot of money.

Think wisely my friend and contact the place in UK where you got the passport from.

Good luck.

Lee

[ubonjoe]

Why would a Thai embassy or consulate give you a letter concerning a UK passport?

[LeeThayer]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

Same for US passport, when I had my renewed it came with a letter, took both to immigration with the old passpast and and visa was transferred on the spot with no questions.

[robertson468]

Good luck at the British Embassy, the world's most unhelpful consular staff, with penty of hostile attitude for afters.

p.s. no chance of dealing with a British national, although if you did they probably would be not much better.

p.p.s I am British.

I have been to the British Embassy several times and dealt with a Brit who work upstairs. He is always polite, helpful and friendly, so I have to disagree with your generalisation.

[HUAHIN62]

If anyone can go to the trouble of making a fake UK passport to fool the Thai immigration, I'm certain that they can also make a fake embassy letter confirming the fake passport's authenticity. Are Thai immigration this stupid, or are they just trying everything to make it difficult for everyone?

[/quote

No they are not that stupid. On my letter it states that the new passport (with number) are replacing the old passport (with number). This way Thai immigration can link up on their system the old passport number with the new one. If for example a foreigner commits a crime in Thailand and then try to leave the country with a new passport they cant without the letter. If you fake the letter and the old passport number is not yours or a fake they will catch you and if its yours your also caught.

[spacebass]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

Yes , You would most definitely not expect anything helpful from the U.K. passport / immigration services.

[JSixpack]

It cannot be the responsibility of individual citizens to acquire documents that validate their own passports.

Yes, it can. So you've now discovered.

They have already jumped through whatever hoops there are to acquire a new passport in the first place, passports wear their validity on their faces, provided that foreign authorities have the means to detect the signs of validity,

So? There's--get this--another hoop. Jump over, man! You're almost at the finish line!

and anyway, if it is possible to fake a passport it is surely possible to fake a letter from the consulate.

That's different. Besides, those buying their passports on Kaosan Rd. are too stupid to the fake the letter.

Surely, a passport is evidence enough of it's validity and I see no reason for immigration to delve further.

No, it isn't. Immigration sees a reason to delve further. That's all that matters, innit?

[thaicbr]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS  enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

 

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

 

Glegolo

 

 

Yes , You would most definitely  not expect anything helpful from the U.K. passport / immigration services.

When I sent my application off to HK I received an email within a few days asking for parents details.(i was born in BMH Singapore) I sent them and received an email back confirming receipt a few days later.. effortless and courteous.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6