The Chinese......Another View.

[theblether]

There are a fair few guys who are regulars on the forum that have far more knowledge of China and the Chinese than I, however I keep reading articles on Thaivisa in regards to Chinese tourism and there's an angle I feel I should point out. Hopefully the other China watchers will come in and have their say. This is relevant to us as you will find the Chinese tourist market having a positive effect on some aspects of life here in Thailand. Some that you would not expect.

Firstly, some background. There's a bubble in the Chinese demographic caused by Chairman Mao and his exhortation to his people to breed. It was regarded as a patriotic duty to have a large family. These children, Mao's Children, are now aged about 50-60 years old. I know a lot of them.

We all know about the one child policy, introduced in 1975, and designed to reverse the incredible population growth encouraged by Mao. Some people don't know you could have more than one child if you paid a fine, and in some areas officials turned a blind eye as population was required to work the fields.

There's an internal passport system in place in China. If you are born in the back woods, you are expected to stay there. Yes you may travel to the big city to get a job, but you have no rights, no access to medical care, no rights of access to official agencies etc. I know a Mongolian working in Suzhou, 2 hours from Shanghai, that has to travel back to Mongolia to conduct any official business.

For the purpose of the exercise there are three types of people in China, the interior poor, the Eastern Seaboard Mao Children, and the Eastern Seaboard One Child children. You won't be seeing any of the interior poor on bus trips to Thailand.

There's another twist though, the One Child children are the beneficiaries of the economic transformation encouraged by Deng Xiaoping.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping

It was he that opened the Chinese market to International trade and started the boom in economic activity.

Okay, so theblether is in Suzhou, as a guest of a Mao's Child who is a primary shareholder in a company I cannot name. This guy is sitting with his son, a Child of Deng, and although father and son, their experiences could not be more different.

The father can't stand Mao, he lived through the Cultural Revolutions and the starvation, and he was one of those sent to work in the fields. He said that if 30% of what Mao did was correct, it would be a miracle. He was a young man when the opportunity to open a business under Deng's new regime came about, and now he is wealthy beyond belief.

This guy walks about the place with a briefcase, which has 30,000rmb cash in it, equivalent to about £3000, $4500 US. This is his slush fund and he's looking to spend it every day trying to open up new Guanxi, new connection, with people. Guanxi is the most important word in the Chinese language, to understand what's going in with the Chinese in Thailand, you need to understand this word.

Guanxi, who you went to school with matters, your classmates are expected to give you access to their Guanxi as they progress through their careers, until the day they die. You are expected to return the favour. You'll also gain Guanxi through your family connections, and as you progress, through the growth of your own career or business.

Have you ever noticed how Thais are too fast to allocate familial titles to each other? This is my sister? No it's not, it's a girl you met for the first time last week, I was with you, remember?

In China, Deng's children will regard their cousins as brothers and sisters, and they will mean it. It's for the brutally simplistic reason that they were denied siblings, and they hold on to each other in that regard. If a Chinese person introduces you to their cousin, but describes them as their sister, they mean it. They're is nothing false about it in their eyes.

Think of Guanxi as being like a giant spiders web, flexible but unbreakable, and you'll not be far wrong. Here's the thing though, on the Eastern Seaboard these Guanxi webs almost always include supremely powerful people. Communist Party officials, army, millionaire businessmen, you have no idea the power contained in a Guanxi web. Once you are in the web, it's all about Face, Chinese style. When you are called upon for a favour, you better pull it off, especially of it was someone from the top of the web calling for it.

The consequences for breaking Guanxi in China are sickening, people spend their whole lives working and creating Guanxi, it is the core of Chinese life. If you think that the Thai concept of Face is powerful, it's nothing compared to Chinese Face/Guanxi combined. Nothing.

I'm the Godfather to a Chinese baby, her father is my best pal in China. His father built a massive flooring company, with world wide distribution. His biggest single customer is Home Depot, who actually have an office is his primary factory. His mother is secretary 2-I-C of the local Communist party. Unbelievable Guanxi.

This guy has been in Chiang Mai with me, the next part I'm going to talk about will resonate with the China watchers, and may shock some of you. The level of Nationalism in China is astounding, the Chinese education system rams hatred of the West down their pupils throats, and superiority over all other Asian nations is a given. In as much as the Chinese collectively have an intense hatred of we Westerners, they have a full contempt of the Thais.

I was gobsmacked when I was with this guy in CM, the girls were all over him. There's another Scottish member of this forum that reads on a regular basis but rarely posts that witnessed it. He walked into a bar and the Queen Bee literally pinned him against a wall and put on a performance like I've never seen before or since. He wasn't interested, gorgeous to us? Yes.....a dark skinned Thai peasant to him.

He opened up that night and he left Thailand without a name, dirty, uneducated, backward peasant country. I was shocked ( and disappointed ) at how vociferously racist he was. We walked in to a night club later, a white skinned beauty walked over and introduced herself and said she wanted to sleep with him. That was in the first two minutes of being in the place. He said she wasn't bad so he took her back to his place, done her and literally threw her out. I asked him what that was all about the next day and his answer was racist again.

The first thing you need to know about these Chinese tourists is that they are treating the Thais with contempt. They would never dream of trying these stunts you hear about in the West, they would feel too intimidated. On the rare occasions that they do something stupid in the West, their embassy officials go white with shock, they know the implications.

Here though, it's a totally different matter. These Dengs Children are on a pedestal, they are worshiped within the family, and they still are expected to be the primary carers of their parents as they age.

They arrive over here and get abused, beaten, abducted, ripped off, and even killed and here's what happens next. The Guanxi web in China starts to buzz. You don't mess with these kids, and you don't mess with their Guanxi.

A simple phone call lands on the desk of the Chinese Ambassador, he looks at it, and he goes white. You can be sure it will be from someone at a level that will make him go white. It gets passed down to the Consular officials and then the fun begins. They will not tolerate the bs that pours forth from the Thais, they can't afford to tolerate it. They will hammer in continuously until they get satisfaction, if they don't get it, they will mark that persons card and they will be back.

They have to come back, as they've got a phone call to return. Now it's at the point in Phuket the only effective consular official is Xu Mingliang. That's because he doesn't eff about. He rips in to the Thais, and they don't like it. What they really don't like is, they can't do anything about it. The Phuket governor has now bottled it, he does anything in his power to avoid Consul General Mingliang, he has met his match.

There is no way that any Thai official would send a text to him saying "why are you still in Thailand", as they did to the Australian Honorary consulate the other day, ( another hard working man ). They wouldn't dream of it, they're terrified of him.

Why? It's because he's playing them at their own game. Their is no one better in the world at using the "it's our culture" card than the Chinese, and no one better at cutting through the bs.

So the next time you see a young Chinese person wandering down the street, ask yourself.......who is their Guanxi? You'll often be staggered at who is metaphorically walking behind them.

Just another view of what is going around us.........

[topt]

Did you have to write so much.......;-)

I understand what you are saying and I have read about Guangxi but cannot say I have had the exposure to it that you have. The whole one child policy is also not quite as black and white as you make it. In many places if the first child is female you are apparently allowed to try again after a certain amount of time and other places it was not so well policed.

I would also say that there are a lot of young Chinese 20-early 30s who have, through ingenuity or being in the right place at the right time, ridden the more recent export bonanza and made more money then many westerners see in a lifetime. And many of these, too me anyway, do not seem to have much of an established Guanxi network above them as you describe above. They have got on and pushed their businesses without necessarily having the powerful connections you refer to. Agreed they seem to have a network with classmates but is that not the same as in the west?

However it will be interesting to see whether the Chinese get results that the western "diplomats" have seemingly failed to achieve.

[EyesWideOpen]

My thoughts on China..... Living in Pattaya, I see endless busloads of Chinese tourists, gaping out the window as the

buses pass the bar beer areas. Cannot imagine what they think... Also amusing to see the little herds of Chinese

tour groups on walking street ,walking around with a stunned look on their face as they carefully follow the guy with

the little red flag on a stick. All seems a bit provincial to me, as if the farm folks are visiting the big city.

Why is Mao's face on their money ? He should be the most reviled man in China, as he is the greatest mass murderer

in the history of mankind, having directly caused the death of 60 million Chinese people.

Always amazing to me that the most capitalistic people in the world, have a communist government that is supposed

to share the wealth....

The curse of China, and the blessing of China, lies in its population. The blessing part is you can build a factory,

hire people for peanuts, build widgets for very low cost, and sell them to the western world. The curse is that as the

Chinese dream bypasses these hundred of millions of workers, there will be some serious social discontent on the horizon.

To see social discontent, you need only to see photos of the nets around the housing dormitories at Foxconn that are

designed to stop suicides.....

The economic miracle of China is pretty much confined to the east coast. I have spent three months traveling by myself

on a motorcycle in central China, and there are lots of people left behind from the miracle. I saw a lot of poor people,

and a lot of poverty. The country itself simply does not have the resources to lift these people up to a middle class

level of living.

The power of China, has been to make shoddy products at a low price. I cannot count the number of times I have used a

Chinese product that either did not work at the outset, or failed in a very brief period of time. Now I avoid their products

like the plague. Well except for my Iphone, which clearly has some serious Apple quality control at work.

It will be fascinating to see the future for China. There is a whole lot of smart money that thinks it will implode relatively soon.

That may be a bit dramatic . I personally think the future of manufacturing will be 3D printing, and this will also be the

death knell for China as a manufacturing country. There will be robotic controlled factories in America spitting out

endless quality products at a very low cost by 3D printers. So factories in China full of low cost laborers will be akin

to a buggy whip maker, in that they will no longer fit in the new 3D world.

As you noted, I am sure that the upside to Chinese tourism, is the fact that as Chinese tourists are killed here, you will see some serious pressure applied to the Thai government by the Chinese government. So indirectly that will benefit all of us. A few days ago in Pattaya two Chinese tourists were killed in a moronic speed boat accident. Will be interesting to see the outcome from that. When those Hong Kong tourists were killed in the Philippines in the

Rizal park bus hijacking, afterwards Hong Kong issued a black travel alert for the Philippines.

Edited September 2, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[jocko]

There was a TV show in UK about tourism in China they sent two presenters on tour one a female done the 5star tour in all the best hotels etc and the other presenter a male went on a tour with rich Chinese people on VIP buses etc so all was going well until one place the Chinese went there was a massive portrait of Mao and the tourists where full of excitement and laughing and taking photo's of Mao now the presenter talking to the camera could not understand why considering Mao's history , so he very carefully asked the interpreter why so much excitement well right away you could see the shock on the interpreter's face about the question he wanted her to ask the Chinese tourists but ask she did there was a bit of silence the smiles disappeared a few words where exchanged and then she told him he is the Father of China then the tourists turned on there heals leaving the presenter standing alone.

End of party

[JetsetBkk]

All I know about them is what I see in supermarkets - one at one end of the store, another at the other end and both shouting to each other to have a conversation.

[EyesWideOpen]

There was a TV show in UK about tourism in China they sent two presenters on tour one a female done the 5star tour in all the best hotels etc and the other presenter a male went on a tour with rich Chinese people on VIP buses etc so all was going well until one place the Chinese went there was a massive portrait of Mao and the tourists where full of excitement and laughing and taking photo's of Mao now the presenter talking to the camera could not understand why considering Mao's history , so he very carefully asked the interpreter why so much excitement well right away you could see the shock on the interpreter's face about the question he wanted her to ask the Chinese tourists but ask she did there was a bit of silence the smiles disappeared a few words where exchanged and then she told him he is the Father of China then the tourists turned on there heals leaving the presenter standing alone.

End of party

Literally the Father of China, as he was a pedophile who had sex with thousands and thousands of young girls.

But I suppose that is not in the Chinese history books.... :-)

Edited September 2, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[jmccarty]

All I know about them is what I see in supermarkets - one at one end of the store, another at the other end and both shouting to each other to have a conversation.

In chinese, the loudest wins!

[arthurwait]

Chinese tour groups, why do they seem to have absolutely no consideration for anyone else ?

[ETatBKK]

I think it could be a complete life studies on Chinese Guangxi, Faces, Mao's children, Deng's children, the modern consequence of the one child policy . . .

Chinese will influence the pace of the world economy in next decades, that certainly influences the in-and-out of the Thai culture these days. a very popular film in China - lost in Thailand, brings MILLIONS of Chinese tourists to Thailand.

Central Department Stores, have public address in Chinese language, and offer special discount for Chinese tourists . . .

if you still could learn Chinese language, start now. if your kids are not yet in the Chinese language class, then bring them into this ABC of Chinese culture.

[CharlieH]

Having worked in China, and now spent several years in Thailand, other than in places (geo) the darker skin, I couldnt tell a Chinese and Thai apart? Many I have encountered and assumed Thai were Chinese and vice versa, and of course there is a huge mix of the two races within families.

The point being, you never really know who or what you are dealing with and which cultural points are more relevant. Its best to be your best and respectful and to use an old cliche, treat people as you would expect to be treated and always have a big smile and hand full of cash as back up !

Ps. Enjoyed the OP good reading and informative, thanks for that.

Edited September 2, 2013 by CharlieH

[EyesWideOpen]

I think it could be a complete life studies on Chinese Guangxi, Faces, Mao's children, Deng's children, the modern consequence of the one child policy . . .

Chinese will influence the pace of the world economy in next decades, that certainly influences the in-and-out of the Thai culture these days. a very popular film in China - lost in Thailand, brings MILLIONS of Chinese tourists to Thailand.

Central Department Stores, have public address in Chinese language, and offer special discount for Chinese tourists . . .

if you still could learn Chinese language, start now. if your kids are not yet in the Chinese language class, then bring them into this ABC of Chinese culture.

No need to learn Chinese, as the Chinese are rapidly learning English. They fully realize that having a language

that basically no one else uses, is a hindrance to them economically. So quietly, on a massive scale,

China has brought in many thousand of teachers to teach English. I finally got a sense of this when

I was traveling in China, and virtually every white person I met was a English teacher on holiday.

This of course was in central China, not Beijing.....

[aTomsLife]

There is no way that any Thai official would send a text to him saying "why are you still in Thailand", as they did to the Australian Honorary consulate the other day, (another hard working man ). They wouldn't dream of it, they're terrified of him. Why? It's because he's playing them at their own game. Their is no one better in the world at using the "it's our culture" card than the Chinese, and no one better at cutting through the bs.

Interesting post. Please expand on how exactly he's playing them at their own game. How do the Chinese actually hold the Thais accountable? Do they threaten to cut investments?

[theblether]

@topt, I had to write so much to give members who have limited knowledge of China the necessary background.

I agree broadly with what you said, I did point out it was possible to have more than one child if you were prepared to pay the fine. As for the youngsters, I know a good few of them and they mainly if not always benefit from rock solid Guanxi.

Re the classmates, no it's not the same. You get the phone call and you are expected ( demanded ) to use your Guanxi, which is different from our old pals act.

@EWO, Good point, it is a whisper situation re Mao. To denounce Mao would mean the Communist Party denouncing their Father. They will never do that as it will call into question their entire legitimacy. I agree that improved production techniques will damage the labour intensive countries more than others.

[theblether]

There is no way that any Thai official would send a text to him saying "why are you still in Thailand", as they did to the Australian Honorary consulate the other day, (another hard working man ). They wouldn't dream of it, they're terrified of him. Why? It's because he's playing them at their own game. Their is no one better in the world at using the "it's our culture" card than the Chinese, and no one better at cutting through the bs.

Interesting post. Please expand on how exactly he's playing them at their own game. How do the Chinese actually hold the Thais accountable? Do they threaten to cut investments?

Every Asian nation looks to China with a mix of fear and trepidation. You may remember the story about the Chinese fishermen being slaughtered by Thai soldiers working in conjunction with a major drug runner, ( now captured, and sentenced to death I believe ). The Chinese told the Thai authorities that they were going to impose naval patrols in Thai Mekong waters as they couldn't be trusted to police it themselves.

There wasn't any negotiation, it was a command. We are sending our military vessels into your naval waters and that's it. As usual when faced with Chinese determination, the Thais bottled it.

It's the power of money, the power of history, and the sheer bottom line refusal by China to take no for an answer. The Thais know better than anyone that there's no one more threatening in this area that China. They have also felt the legendary tongue lashings that the Chinese diplomatic service hands out.

The Chinese diplomats will sit there in all politeness and go through the farce of pretending they understand Thailand's problem with the jet ski / speedboat / tuk tuk drivers, then they'll tell them direct, as XU Mingliang did recently. Stop talking crap, sort it out, and do it now.

There was a recent article where Xu ripped into the Phuket establishment calling them out as being thieves and con men. ( I can't find the link ), and saying that Phuket was a disgrace. He's been saying that straight to the Governors face too. The Chinese will use any technique they need to use to get their way. Any. If that means turning off the investment tap, so be it.

[mesquite]

Guangxi, Shmuangxi, I didn't sign up for any of it and I don't take their crap. To me they are just foreigners in this country, just like me, and have no special rights or privileges. I've had a tourist Chinese "princeling" and "princess" try to order me around in Chiang Mai and I told them to eff off. The Thais should do the same.

Edited September 2, 2013 by mesquite

[mesquite]

Chinese tour groups, why do they seem to have absolutely no consideration for anyone else ?

Because they are from China.

[krisb]

The 1 child policy isn't enforced like we are led to believe. Yes there is a law, but they have their ways around it. I know lots of Chinese currently working in the Australian building industry all on 457 visas and I've had this chat with them.

[EyesWideOpen]

Throughout history, China has played no part on the world stage whatsoever. I once asked my good Chinese friend

from Hong Kong why this was so. He told me historically that there has always been so much infighting amongst

the Chinese, they were never able to project any outward power. So I have no fears of China becoming a

world power on a political level. They will simply have a mountain of money from selling their stuff overseas.

But I have to say, their saber rattling in the South China Seas sure has those little frogs jumping

in fear........

[aTomsLife]

Thanks for that detailed reply. I see your points, and totally agree. My girlfriend once told me: In Thailand money isn't enough; you have to have power, too.

Thais clearly know who the regional boss is, and I suppose it's only natural that they show due reverence.

Whatever influence the West could hope to have here will indeed be limited. From your post, I gather there are historical and cultural forces at work that western diplomats simply aren't privy to.

[trainman34014]

Well; one day in 2003 after visiting a good many Asian countries mainly for work purposes i decided i would get a visa for China in London and then stick a pin in a map of China nowhere near the Capital, stuff a bag with clothes and toothpaste and head for the hills, so to speak. The pin landed on Nanning City so out came all the flight and transport connections i could muster and...no problem, fly to Hong Kong and three flights a day by China Southern to Nanning; so off i went the last week in September for three or maybe five weeks, not to work but to explore.

Arrived HK and planned to stay with a Chinese friend for a night and move on next morning. Once i told him where i was going he told me most of his family were living around Nanning and he would love it if i would make contact with some of them once he had contacted them to tell them i was coming. Duly arrived Nanning next morning at 11 and was almost leaped on by four members of mates family including three women who knew it was me as i was the only Farang on the flight. Off i was swept to the Diamond Coast Seafood Hotel ( it's not near a coast but a man made Lagoon ) where they had already booked me for 4 nights and paid a deposit. They also paid for the Taxi and dinner the first night and would not let me even get my wallet out of my pocket. (rather different from Thailand then ! ).

To cut a very long story short i was taken to explore area's such as the Xishan Scenic Mountains, staying in Gongee Village and so on as well as being shown the 'inside story' of Chinese nightlife in ways that no tourist could ever normally hope to experience. I met a whole host of people from just about every layer of society and i found them all to be very welcoming, never rude in any way and wonderful hosts in any situation. People would come out of Tea Shops and drag me inside to drink tea so they could try out their limited English. Kids would rush up to me in the street not to shout 'FARANG' but to say 'Hello; i can speak some English, i learn at school every day mister. The parents would be looking on proudly in some cases and i would try to communicate with them through their kid and generally they appreciated encouragement.

I talked to many folks about their Nationalism because it was their National Holiday during the time i was there and i found that they didn't want to say much about Mao but some resentment was shown generally about 'the old order' and one of my Female hosts was quite bitter as her Father had been killed by the Regime despite the fact that he was a man who supplied vital requirements to the ruling masters. During my stay many women approached my friends to ask about my marital status and if i was interested in marrying a Chinese girl. 'Love' reared it's head after three weeks and i had a relationship with a Lady for nine months. She pressured me constantly to get her out of China but the furthest i could get her was Hong Kong for a week sometime later when i was working there. At that time they would only let the mainlanders out for a week at a time and they had a devils own job to get a visa at all.

Sorry if all these ramblings are of no interest; the blethers post just brought back loads of memories for me.

[aTomsLife]

Guangxi, Shmuangxi, I didn't sign up for any of it and I don't take their crap. To me they are just foreigners in this country, just like me, and have no special rights or privileges. I've had a tourist Chinese "princeling" and "princess" try to order me around in Chiang Mai and I told them to eff off. The Thais should do the same.

Good for you. I would have done the same.

How exactly did they try to order you around?

[krisb]

 

There is no way that any Thai official would send a text to him saying "why are you still in Thailand", as they did to the Australian Honorary consulate the other day, (another hard working man ). They wouldn't dream of it, they're terrified of him. Why? It's because he's playing them at their own game.  Their is no one better in the world at using the "it's our culture" card than the Chinese, and no one better at cutting through the bs. 

 

 

Interesting post.  Please expand on how exactly he's playing them at their own game.  How do the Chinese actually hold the Thais accountable?  Do they threaten to cut investments?   

 

 

Every Asian nation looks to China with a mix of fear and trepidation.  You may remember the story about the Chinese fishermen being slaughtered by Thai soldiers working in conjunction with a major drug runner, ( now captured, and sentenced to death I believe ).  The Chinese told the Thai authorities that they were going to impose naval patrols in Thai Mekong waters as they couldn't be trusted to police it themselves.

 

There wasn't any negotiation, it was a command.  We are sending our military vessels into your naval waters and that's it.  As usual when faced with Chinese determination, the Thais bottled it.

 

It's the power of money, the power of history, and the sheer bottom line refusal by China to take no for an answer.  The Thais know better than anyone that there's no one more threatening in this area that China. They have also felt the legendary tongue lashings that the Chinese diplomatic service hands out.

 

The Chinese diplomats will sit there in all politeness and go through the farce of pretending they understand Thailand's problem with the jet ski / speedboat / tuk tuk drivers, then they'll tell them direct, as XU Mingliang did recently.  Stop talking crap, sort it out, and do it now. 

 

There was a recent article where Xu ripped into the Phuket establishment calling them out as being thieves and con men. ( I can't find the link ), and saying that Phuket was a disgrace.  He's been saying that straight to the Governors face too.  The Chinese will use any technique they need to use to get their way. Any. If that means turning off the investment tap, so be it. 

China wouldn't tell America that they're putting military in their waters.Perhaps these small neighbouring countries with shared borders they can bully a bit, that's the Chinese arrogance, but that's about it.

[theblether]

Very interesting Trainman, I share your experience of being warmly welcomed by my Chinese hosts, and have some amazing stories of their hospitality. many people have a perception of the Chinese being a dour bunch, to me they are a bunch of warm hearted nutters that drink like madmen. Oh, and the women? Wow, no wonder you were romantically involved

[mesquite]

Guangxi, Shmuangxi, I didn't sign up for any of it and I don't take their crap. To me they are just foreigners in this country, just like me, and have no special rights or privileges. I've had a tourist Chinese "princeling" and "princess" try to order me around in Chiang Mai and I told them to eff off. The Thais should do the same.

Good for you. I would have done the same.

How exactly did they try to order you around?

Told me to get out of my seat in an airplane so they could sit there, and to not sit in an empty chair in a restaurant, one they had just vacated.

[trainman34014]

Very interesting Trainman, I share your experience of being warmly welcomed by my Chinese hosts, and have some amazing stories of their hospitality. many people have a perception of the Chinese being a dour bunch, to me they are a bunch of warm hearted nutters that drink like madmen. Oh, and the women? Wow, no wonder you were romantically involved

You have to say Bleth; there is an awful lot of scrumcious totty in that country, blows your mind.

[JLCrab]

I first went to China in 1988. I started learning Chinese in 1970 but only to read & write as there was no practical reason back then to learn how to speak. I traveled to PR China extensively via Communist Party Official invitation/ Agricultural Ministry as there was no way otherwise in those years to get any multiple entry visa.

However, little of what I learned in the next few years traveling to PR China is of value regarding today as when I traveled to China they were poor. The AG Ministry basically operated on swap deals with the Japanese trading companies where the Japanese would give them money to prepare land and buy agricultural equipment and the Chinese would pay them back in soybeans.

[theblether]

There is no way that any Thai official would send a text to him saying "why are you still in Thailand", as they did to the Australian Honorary consulate the other day, (another hard working man ). They wouldn't dream of it, they're terrified of him. Why? It's because he's playing them at their own game. Their is no one better in the world at using the "it's our culture" card than the Chinese, and no one better at cutting through the bs.

Interesting post. Please expand on how exactly he's playing them at their own game. How do the Chinese actually hold the Thais accountable? Do they threaten to cut investments?

Every Asian nation looks to China with a mix of fear and trepidation. You may remember the story about the Chinese fishermen being slaughtered by Thai soldiers working in conjunction with a major drug runner, ( now captured, and sentenced to death I believe ). The Chinese told the Thai authorities that they were going to impose naval patrols in Thai Mekong waters as they couldn't be trusted to police it themselves.

There wasn't any negotiation, it was a command. We are sending our military vessels into your naval waters and that's it. As usual when faced with Chinese determination, the Thais bottled it.

It's the power of money, the power of history, and the sheer bottom line refusal by China to take no for an answer. The Thais know better than anyone that there's no one more threatening in this area that China. They have also felt the legendary tongue lashings that the Chinese diplomatic service hands out.

The Chinese diplomats will sit there in all politeness and go through the farce of pretending they understand Thailand's problem with the jet ski / speedboat / tuk tuk drivers, then they'll tell them direct, as XU Mingliang did recently. Stop talking crap, sort it out, and do it now.

There was a recent article where Xu ripped into the Phuket establishment calling them out as being thieves and con men. ( I can't find the link ), and saying that Phuket was a disgrace. He's been saying that straight to the Governors face too. The Chinese will use any technique they need to use to get their way. Any. If that means turning off the investment tap, so be it.

China wouldn't tell America that they're putting military in their waters.Perhaps these small neighbouring countries with shared borders they can bully a bit, that's the Chinese arrogance, but that's about it.

It's their influence on the satellites which is the point here Kris. I bet you there are a fair few people that didn't know that the Chinese rode roughshod over Thailand on this issue.

There will be plenty thinking that Thailand is omnipotent, in the face of China, it's impotent. have a look at this excellent report from Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/27/us-special-report-mekong-idUSTRE80Q00G20120127

@Trainman, You jest not. I was jumped on by 6 Karaokae hostesses in one of the clubs and pinned to the ground. You'll be pleased to hear that I didn't struggle, I just accepted my fate

The bad news is they just got off me again and didn't do anything.

If your looking for a gorgeous lady that will stand by you every step of the way through life, you could do worse, much worse, than a Chinese girl.

Edited September 2, 2013 by theblether

[JLCrab]

My China story (or one of): Around 1991 I was visiting the office of an American company in Beijing where I was talking with one of the engineers. The manager was hovering around and I guessed he was thinking "Why are you wasting my engineer's time?" When we were finished, the manager asked me "Are you finished?" and I braced for a tongue lashing. Instead he asked: Can you explain to me what is a leveraged buyout?"

So we spent the next hour or so discussing that and other things. I realized: He would never let on to anyone important that he didn't know what was a leveraged buyout but I was OK and he guessed that I would know. The Chinese in those days were very insecure about how far behind they were and you had to be very careful not to say anything like: You mean you don't know that?

Edited September 2, 2013 by JLCrab

[swissie]

We had GUANXI in Europe and the US long before the chinese had GUANXI. It's just that we call it MAFIA. (Same structure).

But lo and behold, there has emerged a new form of Guanxi in Europe and the US: The alliance between Big Business (Big Banks) and the political elite. Mutual agreement: "We don't hurt you, if you don't hurt us."

Cheers.

[krisb]

Blether I've gotta ask, why would you want to be a godfather of someone whos family has a hatred of the west?