The Chinese......Another View.

[EyesWideOpen]

Regarding the bargain basement Chinese apologists version of history, the pain , death and suffering the Chinese government/dictatorship

has visited up the Chinese people makes anything done in the colonial period look like minor stuff.

While it is certainly easy to bash China on many different levels ( Tibet, repression, crap products) , I would like to add my personal

experiences traveling there. It is important to form the distinction between a people and their government. Exactly like Thailand, saddled with

a horrible government, yet if you travel in rural Thailand you will meet wonderful people. China is the same. I traveled by myself

on a motorcycle in central China for three months. The friendliness shown to me was astonishing. People going way out of their

way to help me countless times. If I was eating with Chinese friends at a restaurant, they would not EVER let me pay for anything.

I would eat in restaurants by myself. When I tried to pay the bill one time, the old woman at the cashier desk refused my money,

and told me in broken english she was proud I had chosen her restaurant..... And yes did meet up with a bit of greed here and

there. A medium level hotel that tried to charge me for bottled water when the word complimentary was written on the bottle. Was a great

scene at the reception desk with me pulling out my dictionary to show them the meaning of the word...... :-)

The other part that amazed me was watching CCTV in my hotel room, and watching virtually a nightly recap of the horrors that

Japan wreaked upon China in WW2. China is keeping this issue on the front burner in the minds of the people. I had the

overwhelming sense that there is a big payback headed towards Japan.

Regarding Chinese tourists, yes they can be a bit noisy, and are certainly making a bit of a bad reputation for themselves.

As Thai people, Chinese people, and Japanese people all think they are the master race, it is always a bit amusing to see

their worlds collide , and they try to decide who is the most superior.......

Regarding theblether invading China, I had no idea such powerful people existed on TV....

Edited September 7, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[OldChinaHam]

Throughout history, China has played no part on the world stage whatsoever. I once asked my good Chinese friend

from Hong Kong why this was so. He told me historically that there has always been so much infighting amongst

the Chinese, they were never able to project any outward power. So I have no fears of China becoming a

world power on a political level. They will simply have a mountain of money from selling their stuff overseas.

But I have to say, their saber rattling in the South China Seas sure has those little frogs jumping

in fear........

No place on the world stage? Spoken with the true arrogance of a Caucasian descendant of the European and American invaders that raped, pillaged and stole the wealth of China over the centuries. The Chinese were leaders in science and technology while other cultures were still living in mud huts contemplating the humors. The Chinese gave us the compass, papermaking, gun powder and printing, all of which advanced European civilization.

In return the Europeans forced opium upon a sovereign nation. Who can forget the Boxer rebellion when the 8 occupying forces that saw Russia, Japan, USA, UK, France, the AustroHungarian Empire, Italy and Germany invade to quash a movement to free China of the yoke of foreign tyranny, including the forcing of western Christianity on the Chinese.

Of course the Chinese will have a history of nationalism. They needed it to survive the brutal foreign occupations.

Of course the Chinese are leery of foreigners. You would be too if every foreigner particularly from the west came to steal, force addictive drugs on you and to defile an ancient civilization.

The west created the Chinese of today because of the long history of exploitation. It is poetic justice that the USA now requires the injection of Chinese capital. No influence on the world stage? Really? China is a major investor in Africa. China is the country purchasing the Canadian oil industry while the USA sits with its thumb up its arse.

Guanxi is over rated and over blown. China is a country where an estimated 30-40% of the population cannot speak the official language of Mandarin. I suppose, that shouldn't be too surprising as a great many UK residents and Americans are unable to speak proper English too.

1/2 my family is from China, part of the old colonial ruling class and they didn't all leave until the mid 1950's. Some would have left sooner, but they were killed off during the Japanese occupation, while others were detained after the revolution as British spies, abandoned by the crown. It is amusing to read of the "racist" description of the Chinese. Mild compared to some of the comments I heard from visiting compatriots of the family when I was a kid. There was the Englishwoman who referred to blacks as "darkies", the physician who called Chinese people " chinamen". Topping it off was the Vicar who called them savages. My grandfather told me of the park in Shanghai which had a sign that stated no dogs or Chinese. Imagine that. What would the long term legacy be in the USA if the Russians popped over to occupy New York and erected signs in Central park that said, No Americans and No dogs.

The story you mention of Dogs, Chinese, and Parks, is a apocryphal crock of sh__T, my friend.

Pls don't get too far bent out of shape here.

Nationalism is definitely alive and well in China these days.

But very often it is intentionally stirred up by the government in order to create a diversion in the minds of the citizenry, so that the LaoBaiXing will be distracted from the more important topic of how to overthrow their government and institute democratic reform.

Sorry, no. It is the park that is still open today, where people visit. A small museum is on site with pictures from that era. A photograph shows the rules that applied. I am not talking about the more famous Huangpu. However, even at Huangpu there was a posting of the rules'

- No dogs

- Park reserved for foreigners

Don't tell me this didn't exist, as it is documented. I visited the museum when I walked down from the old Jesuit University generations of my family attended. I saw the photographs.

Here's a picture of Huangpu's rules. How would you feel if you tried to get into a park in your own country and it stated only foreigners were allowed in? If you were Chinese, it would the same thing as saying no Chinese allowed.

What you do not seem to understand is that the outrage people voice always comes from the myth that the British were comparing Chinese to Dogs in the park.

This just is not true, as you can see from the image you posted.

This image does not even state that Chinese or foreigners are not allowed in the park, only that unaccompanied children are not allowed. The outrage is misplaced, and is a crock of sh__T, I still say.

There have been many cases throughout history of one country occupying the lands of another country and then barring the new "foreigners" from many places and privileges.

Don't get so bent out of shape about history you just learned this decade, but see it in perspective instead.

It is things like the forced importation of opium to China that the British should feel guilty about.

Although, some people do enjoy having a bit of opium, now and again.

Happy Pipe Dreams

[EyesWideOpen]

Both my kids are learning Chinese at their school and also the weekends.

I want to learn too as it might come in handy one day.

Is it worth it though if all the Chinese are learning English?

Still think that spending a lot of time learning Chinese is a bit of a fad, only only makes sense

if you believe that the Chinese will be the new economic masters of the world, and in order

to get a job at their companies you must speak Chinese. Your children would be far bettered

served by being able to speak perfect English. My child starts school this year, and she certainly

will not be spending time to learn a torturous language based upon pictures.... :-)

[SinglePot]

Correct me if I am mistaken. I thought the Opium Wars were connected with China's reluctance to deal with The Great British Empire on trading silk and stuff. Hence, while Britain were keen to embrace China in the benefits of the Industrial revolution, the obstinacy of the Chinese dictatorship forced China into a stagnant backwater.

[StreetCowboy]

Both my kids are learning Chinese at their school and also the weekends.

I want to learn too as it might come in handy one day.

Is it worth it though if all the Chinese are learning English?

Still think that spending a lot of time learning Chinese is a bit of a fad, only only makes sense

if you believe that the Chinese will be the new economic masters of the world, and in order

to get a job at their companies you must speak Chinese. Your children would be far bettered

served by being able to speak perfect English. My child starts school this year, and she certainly

will not be spending time to learn a torturous language based upon pictures.... :-)

Quite right. No need to learn all these funny Johnny Foreigner languages. Foreign languages are for ignorant foreign people, not broad-minded, intelligent and well-educated chaps like you or me.

SC

[OldChinaHam]

Correct me if I am mistaken. I thought the Opium Wars were connected with China's reluctance to deal with The Great British Empire on trading silk and stuff. Hence, while Britain were keen to embrace China in the benefits of the Industrial revolution, the obstinacy of the Chinese dictatorship forced China into a stagnant backwater.

You are saying that the government of a country does not have the right to choose whether or not to trade?

You are mistaken.

Each country has the right to choose when and how to trade, or not to trade at all.

And to be very protectionist, as well.

Are you saying that the government of China welcomed or encouraged the importation of opium to China?

Or that the importing of opium China was in the best interest of China?

Did the British import opium to China in major quantities?

Your question, too, is mistaken.

[EyesWideOpen]

Both my kids are learning Chinese at their school and also the weekends.

I want to learn too as it might come in handy one day.

Is it worth it though if all the Chinese are learning English?

Still think that spending a lot of time learning Chinese is a bit of a fad, only only makes sense

if you believe that the Chinese will be the new economic masters of the world, and in order

to get a job at their companies you must speak Chinese. Your children would be far bettered

served by being able to speak perfect English. My child starts school this year, and she certainly

will not be spending time to learn a torturous language based upon pictures.... :-)

Quite right. No need to learn all these funny Johnny Foreigner languages. Foreign languages are for ignorant foreign people, not broad-minded, intelligent and well-educated chaps like you or me.

SC

Brilliant comeback, thank you so much. The issue is allocation of time and energy. Is your child learning

Swahili ??? Oh wait I guess that would be a waste of time....... So it seems like a bit of a suck up move to learn

the language of a group of people you perceive to be your new future masters. There would be a lot of sadness

from people who spent years learning Chinese, only to see China implode and fade from the world stage.

I think I will have my daughter learn Spanish, as a brain exercise, and she will need it when she goes back to

visit America.. :-)

Edited September 7, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[SinglePot]

Correct me if I am mistaken. I thought the Opium Wars were connected with China's reluctance to deal with The Great British Empire on trading silk and stuff. Hence, while Britain were keen to embrace China in the benefits of the Industrial revolution, the obstinacy of the Chinese dictatorship forced China into a stagnant backwater.

You are saying that the government of a country does not have the right to choose whether or not to trade?

You are mistaken.

Each country has the right to choose when and how to trade, or not to trade at all.

And to be very protectionist, as well.

Are you saying that the government of China welcomed or encouraged the importation of opium to China?

Or that the importing of opium China was in the best interest of China?

Did the British import opium to China in major quantities?

Your question, too, is mistaken.

Nope. I am not saying a government does not have the right to choose whether to trade or not.

Up to them.

History suggests that China's failure to embrace legitimate trade with Great Britain at the time of the industrial revolution in Europe left China in the dark ages.

[LawrenceChee]

I have over time spent on TV tried to present a different view of china to the users here in a balanced manner.

I'm born Chinese and have spent time growing up in NZ and Singapore and have a western education. In many of my business dealings is approach it with a western mind and Chinese practicality in resolving issues or making a better profit

I also benefited from having a paternal grandfather that taught me the value of business mind early and the importance of guanxi and Chinese traditions and not forgetting the language and traditions of being a Chinese

Working for the last 10 years in different parts of china and working with clients that has clout politically and business wise, I am amazed while traveling of the many opinions of the Chinese

There are really no right/ wrong in this although having a closed mind is indeed the biggest fault of any person if one chooses to

China is no different from many countries, they have a population that consists of the elite, the middle class and those who work on laboring jobs.

Admittedly with 1.3 billion as they travel outside of china, they bring with them habits that are not unique to themselves ...for those who hate the bus loads of tourists, just stand back and again ask if its fair to gauge ones opinion on a country based on 5-10 buses loads of tourists...that's really 200 out of 1.3 billion and hardly a deciding ratio

For those that have the pleasure of traveling into china before, again they are no different in having both hospitable people and people who are out to make a quick buck off a tourist ...again no different in many countries including Thailand where we call home

The Chinese race prevails and is worldwide because of their adaptability and practicality on making most decisions....in fact if one put aside the bigot thoughts, its amazing where they go ...I was in Vanuatu for a project and asked for the best restaurant in the capital and they brought us to a HK restaurant at the top of the hill ! Guy left HK 10 years ago and came here because he was bored ...now that's amazing travel and wondering how he picked Vanuatu over the many choices and opening the only Chinese restaurant and the governor tells us he has introduced the pleasures of eating fried noodles to a country where people really like their bananas ..that's cultural adaptability

The Chinese language will be more dominant in the future. Instead of being scared of it ...accept it with an open mind.

Speaking a language opens doors and possibilities and to deny a child a possibility is rather odd.

I speak English, mandarin, Cantonese, hokkien and basic conversational Thai and my main driving reason to learn is to open doors and cultivate relationships all over the world.

I have had the pleasure of doing business in many continents and find that when you look for the best in people ..it always reciprocates in a positive way.

Have fun learning about the Chinese ...it surprises you at every corner over what they know and how thy share that info

[StreetCowboy]

Correct me if I am mistaken. I thought the Opium Wars were connected with China's reluctance to deal with The Great British Empire on trading silk and stuff. Hence, while Britain were keen to embrace China in the benefits of the Industrial revolution, the obstinacy of the Chinese dictatorship forced China into a stagnant backwater.

You are saying that the government of a country does not have the right to choose whether or not to trade?

You are mistaken.

Each country has the right to choose when and how to trade, or not to trade at all.

And to be very protectionist, as well.

Are you saying that the government of China welcomed or encouraged the importation of opium to China?

Or that the importing of opium China was in the best interest of China?

Did the British import opium to China in major quantities?

Your question, too, is mistaken.

The issue was parity of trade. THe Chinese would not accept sales of foreign goods, but were quite willing to sell their own products. In the face of stiff barriers to trade, the one product that Chinese were willing to help bring into the country around the trade barriers was opium, and suddenly the balance of trade was restored.

Instead of blaming the Chinese who were buying the opium, the Chinese blamed the foreigners, hence the Opium Wars.

The reason why there are so many Chinese all over the world is because they were, and still are, desperate to escape the poverty and oppression of their own country

SC

[SinglePot]

Fair points Lawrence. You have the benefit of a western education and a life experience outside of the confines of mainland China.

Many mainland Chinese people don't.

My experience of work and life in Beijing left me with a feeling of reluctance on their part to embrace western thinking and methods. To put it simply and without wishing to be prejudicial, an obstinacy to embrace different thinking.

[StreetCowboy]

Fair points Lawrence. You have the benefit of a western education and a life experience outside of the confines of mainland China.

Many mainland Chinese people don't.

My experience of work and life in Beijing left me with a feeling of reluctance on their part to embrace western thinking and methods. To put it simply and without wishing to be prejudicial, an obstinacy to embrace different thinking.

I've never really been willing to embrace Chinese ways of thinking either

[SinglePot]

Fair points Lawrence. You have the benefit of a western education and a life experience outside of the confines of mainland China.

Many mainland Chinese people don't.

My experience of work and life in Beijing left me with a feeling of reluctance on their part to embrace western thinking and methods. To put it simply and without wishing to be prejudicial, an obstinacy to embrace different thinking.

I've never really been willing to embrace Chinese ways of thinking either

Point taken. Two way traffic. I was employed by Chinese leadership of a US multinational.

[snake24]

Regarding the bargain basement Chinese apologists version of history, the pain , death and suffering the Chinese government/dictatorship

has visited up the Chinese people makes anything done in the colonial period look like minor stuff.

While it is certainly easy to bash China on many different levels ( Tibet, repression, crap products) , I would like to add my personal

experiences traveling there. It is important to form the distinction between a people and their government. Exactly like Thailand, saddled with

a horrible government, yet if you travel in rural Thailand you will meet wonderful people. China is the same. I traveled by myself

on a motorcycle in central China for three months. The friendliness shown to me was astonishing. People going way out of their

way to help me countless times. If I was eating with Chinese friends at a restaurant, they would not EVER let me pay for anything.

I would eat in restaurants by myself. When I tried to pay the bill one time, the old woman at the cashier desk refused my money,

and told me in broken english she was proud I had chosen her restaurant..... And yes did meet up with a bit of greed here and

there. A medium level hotel that tried to charge me for bottled water when the word complimentary was written on the bottle. Was a great

scene at the reception desk with me pulling out my dictionary to show them the meaning of the word...... :-)

The other part that amazed me was watching CCTV in my hotel room, and watching virtually a nightly recap of the horrors that

Japan wreaked upon China in WW2. China is keeping this issue on the front burner in the minds of the people. I had the

overwhelming sense that there is a big payback headed towards Japan.

Regarding Chinese tourists, yes they can be a bit noisy, and are certainly making a bit of a bad reputation for themselves.

As Thai people, Chinese people, and Japanese people all think they are the master race, it is always a bit amusing to see

their worlds collide , and they try to decide who is the most superior.......

Regarding theblether invading China, I had no idea such powerful people existed on TV....

So what do u think of china now? I actually think it's rather unfair that you being a foreigner get so many perks when ironically foreigners probably think worse of china compared to the chinese themselves.

Anyway i find the part ironic in this statement.

As Thai people, Chinese people, and Japanese people all think they are the master race, it is always a bit amusing to see

their worlds collide , and they try to decide who is the most superior.......

How about white ppl thinking that too? I mean they have an entire forum dedicated to that called stormfront.

[snake24]

Both my kids are learning Chinese at their school and also the weekends.

I want to learn too as it might come in handy one day.

Is it worth it though if all the Chinese are learning English?

Still think that spending a lot of time learning Chinese is a bit of a fad, only only makes sense

if you believe that the Chinese will be the new economic masters of the world, and in order

to get a job at their companies you must speak Chinese. Your children would be far bettered

served by being able to speak perfect English. My child starts school this year, and she certainly

will not be spending time to learn a torturous language based upon pictures.... :-)

oh lord have mercy it's the 21st century now and we still have ppl that write like this. You would have thought the british empire was still reigning supreme. If one learns a language only because they believe the language of that country is going to become supreme in the world then well don't bother learning thai, japanese, russian and only learn english. You seem to be much more at home in a place like stormfront.

It's posts like this that prove i am correct when i see westerners talk about chinese there is always that need to bash it or post something to show that they are superior to it. Can you imagine the outrage some ppl would feel if someone wrote about thai like this way.

Still think that spending a lot of time learning Thai is a bit of a fad, only only makes sense

if you believe that the Thai will be the new economic masters of the world, and in order

to get a job at their companies you must speak Thai. Your children would be far bettered

served by being able to speak perfect English.

FYI chinese isn't a torturous language based on pictures and i can speak and write both in english and chinese perfectly fine so i suppose it takes a certain intelligence to master chinese.........

[OldChinaHam]

Correct me if I am mistaken. I thought the Opium Wars were connected with China's reluctance to deal with The Great British Empire on trading silk and stuff. Hence, while Britain were keen to embrace China in the benefits of the Industrial revolution, the obstinacy of the Chinese dictatorship forced China into a stagnant backwater.

You are saying that the government of a country does not have the right to choose whether or not to trade?

You are mistaken.

Each country has the right to choose when and how to trade, or not to trade at all.

And to be very protectionist, as well.

Are you saying that the government of China welcomed or encouraged the importation of opium to China?

Or that the importing of opium China was in the best interest of China?

Did the British import opium to China in major quantities?

Your question, too, is mistaken.

The issue was parity of trade. THe Chinese would not accept sales of foreign goods, but were quite willing to sell their own products. In the face of stiff barriers to trade, the one product that Chinese were willing to help bring into the country around the trade barriers was opium, and suddenly the balance of trade was restored.

Instead of blaming the Chinese who were buying the opium, the Chinese blamed the foreigners, hence the Opium Wars.

The reason why there are so many Chinese all over the world is because they were, and still are, desperate to escape the poverty and oppression of their own country

SC

So, then you are saying that the British went to India in such great numbers for the purpose of escaping their desperate poverty, and the dark ages that was taking over the United Kingdom during that time, as well as the very oppressive Dickensian cultural and industrial revolution in London?

[StreetCowboy]

...

FYI chinese isn't a torturous language based on pictures and i can speak and write both in english and chinese perfectly fine so i suppose it takes a certain intelligence to master chinese.........

You're kidding no-one but yourself

[snake24]

The story you mention of Dogs, Chinese, and Parks, is a apocryphal crock of sh__T, my friend.

Pls don't get too far bent out of shape here.

Nationalism is definitely alive and well in China these days.

But very often it is intentionally stirred up by the government in order to create a diversion in the minds of the citizenry, so that the LaoBaiXing will be distracted from the more important topic of how to overthrow their government and institute democratic reform.

What you do not seem to understand is that the outrage people voice always comes from the myth that the British were comparing Chinese to Dogs in the park.

This just is not true, as you can see from the image you posted.

This image does not even state that Chinese or foreigners are not allowed in the park, only that unaccompanied children are not allowed. The outrage is misplaced, and is a crock of sh__T, I still say.

There have been many cases throughout history of one country occupying the lands of another country and then barring the new "foreigners" from many places and privileges.

Don't get so bent out of shape about history you just learned this decade, but see it in perspective instead.

It is things like the forced importation of opium to China that the British should feel guilty about.

Although, some people do enjoy having a bit of opium, now and again.

Happy Pipe Dreams

it says children unaccompanied by foreigners.

Well bruce lee's famous chinese and dogs scene is shown in movies and nobody has ever come out to dispute it is false.

[OldChinaHam]

If I had my way, I would never let bruce lee into the park, or the theatres.

[EyesWideOpen]

Again, and for the last time, it is about allocation of time and resources. My desire to learn Chinese is zero.

And my desire for my daughter to spend vast amounts of time to learn Chinese is also hovering at zero.

Think I will have her learn coding..... :-)

And for a person who says they can speak and write Chinese, you should certainly know it is a picture based

language....Wait I guess on a internet board you can say anything you want.....

http://library.thinkquest.org/20443/g_tutorial1.html

"The character is the equivalent of an English word. Since Chinese is a pictographic language, it contains pictures or characters. There are approximately 50,000 Chinese characters.

[EyesWideOpen]

If I had my way, I would never let bruce lee into the park, or the theatres.

Would have been hard to stop him......

[LawrenceChee]

Fair points Lawrence. You have the benefit of a western education and a life experience outside of the confines of mainland China.

Many mainland Chinese people don't.

My experience of work and life in Beijing left me with a feeling of reluctance on their part to embrace western thinking and methods. To put it simply and without wishing to be prejudicial, an obstinacy to embrace different thinking.

I am unsure why there are times when the west think its important to think western

I am unconvinced it benefits the general public with little interaction with foreigners.

What's western thinking really ? liberal and civil rights, free press and an ability to vote and eating sausages, beans and cornflakes ? :-)

The Chinese who are well connected to the net knows that liberal rights seems important and yet the protests does not lead to better standards of living,

Free in Australia where one owners owns all the papers and openly supported the opposition and directed the press ? They chuckle at it and compare it to theirs and are no different

As for the ability to vote like the west, they see Iraq and Afghanistan which were "liberated" by the west yet remains unsafe for woman to shop at markets or play on streets and they think maybe the CCP is no that bad. Anyhow I cannot see the logistics of having 1.3 billion people voting without the west claiming there are spoiled votes, invalid ballot stuffing or the likes. I believe they just decide its not the way things will work for them

[EyesWideOpen]

Fair points Lawrence. You have the benefit of a western education and a life experience outside of the confines of mainland China.

Many mainland Chinese people don't.

My experience of work and life in Beijing left me with a feeling of reluctance on their part to embrace western thinking and methods. To put it simply and without wishing to be prejudicial, an obstinacy to embrace different thinking.

I am unsure why there are times when the west think its important to think western

I am unconvinced it benefits the general public with little interaction with foreigners.

What's western thinking really ? liberal and civil rights, free press and an ability to vote and eating sausages, beans and cornflakes ? :-)

The Chinese who are well connected to the net knows that liberal rights seems important and yet the protests does not lead to better standards of living,

Free in Australia where one owners owns all the papers and openly supported the opposition and directed the press ? They chuckle at it and compare it to theirs and are no different

As for the ability to vote like the west, they see Iraq and Afghanistan which were "liberated" by the west yet remains unsafe for woman to shop at markets or play on streets and they think maybe the CCP is no that bad. Anyhow I cannot see the logistics of having 1.3 billion people voting without the west claiming there are spoiled votes, invalid ballot stuffing or the likes. I believe they just decide its not the way things will work for them

Freedom of speech have any importance ?? The power of the old days of monopoly ownership of newspapers have been long been bypassed by information being freely exchanged on the internet. Oh cannot do that in China due to the Great Chinese Firewall.......

Edited September 7, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[SinglePot]

Again, and for the last time, it is about allocation of time and resources. My desire to learn Chinese is zero.

And my desire for my daughter to spend vast amounts of time to learn Chinese is also hovering at zero.

Think I will have her learn coding..... :-)

And for a person who says they can speak and write Chinese, you should certainly know it is a picture based

language....Wait I guess on a internet board you can say anything you want.....

http://library.thinkquest.org/20443/g_tutorial1.html

"The character is the equivalent of an English word. Since Chinese is a pictographic language, it contains pictures or characters. There are approximately 50,000 Chinese characters.

Never mind EWO. Simplified mandarin is easier than traditional. Another of Mao Zedong's great ideas.

Because thought and language are inextricably linked, many linguistic experts believe that this was a diservice to the society.

Edited September 7, 2013 by SinglePot

[OldChinaHam]

Very interesting Trainman, I share your experience of being warmly welcomed by my Chinese hosts, and have some amazing stories of their hospitality. many people have a perception of the Chinese being a dour bunch, to me they are a bunch of warm hearted nutters that drink like madmen. Oh, and the women? Wow, no wonder you were romantically involved

The Thai/Chinese are the dour ones.

Miserable, stingy, and unfriendly compared to real Thais.

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Pure and unadulterated garbage that belongs on the dustbin of history.

Your generalizations about a whole range of people do not do your ancestors credit.

Little minds are obviously not for thinking, as you have just proven.

The Thai/Chinese in almost every case are hardworking and have a deep respect for both education and culture.

But what do you really know about the Chinese culture?

Obviously again, not much.

I'll ignore the low levels you stoop to to insult me.

I know little of Chinese culture. I was not talking about the Chinese. I've worked and done business however with the Chinese Thais for 25 years and stand by my statement of them being money-grabbing people and their main intent in life is to make cash.

I wonder how long you have lived in Thailand?

Long enough in Asia to know that money grabbing is the only way to do business.

This is the same way they do it in America, too.

Grab the money before someone else grabs it for you.

[OldChinaHam]

Again, and for the last time, it is about allocation of time and resources. My desire to learn Chinese is zero.

And my desire for my daughter to spend vast amounts of time to learn Chinese is also hovering at zero.

Think I will have her learn coding..... :-)

And for a person who says they can speak and write Chinese, you should certainly know it is a picture based

language....Wait I guess on a internet board you can say anything you want.....

http://library.thinkquest.org/20443/g_tutorial1.html

"The character is the equivalent of an English word. Since Chinese is a pictographic language, it contains pictures or characters. There are approximately 50,000 Chinese characters.

Never mind EWO. Simplified mandarin is easier than traditional. Another of Mao Zedong's great ideas.

Because thought and language are inextricably linked, many linguistic experts believe that this was a diservice to the society.

Sorry, sir.

But, what poppycock!

If anything, the simplified Chinese characters are more difficult to learn, and they read more slowly because it is easier for good readers to read traditional characters faster.

Also, learning traditional characters and simplified characters does not really change the difficulty level of learning Chinese.

And simplified characters did not improve the literacy rate.

That Mao was a true menace.

TO PROVE MY point, the simplest written language is just binary code, machine language maybe. So if you want to give yourself a headache, try reading War and Peace in binary.

Edited September 7, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[SinglePot]

Fair points Lawrence. You have the benefit of a western education and a life experience outside of the confines of mainland China.

Many mainland Chinese people don't.

My experience of work and life in Beijing left me with a feeling of reluctance on their part to embrace western thinking and methods. To put it simply and without wishing to be prejudicial, an obstinacy to embrace different thinking.

I am unsure why there are times when the west think its important to think western

I am unconvinced it benefits the general public with little interaction with foreigners.

What's western thinking really ? liberal and civil rights, free press and an ability to vote and eating sausages, beans and cornflakes ? :-)

The Chinese who are well connected to the net knows that liberal rights seems important and yet the protests does not lead to better standards of living,

Free in Australia where one owners owns all the papers and openly supported the opposition and directed the press ? They chuckle at it and compare it to theirs and are no different

As for the ability to vote like the west, they see Iraq and Afghanistan which were "liberated" by the west yet remains unsafe for woman to shop at markets or play on streets and they think maybe the CCP is no that bad. Anyhow I cannot see the logistics of having 1.3 billion people voting without the west claiming there are spoiled votes, invalid ballot stuffing or the likes. I believe they just decide its not the way things will work for them

I was referring more to western scientific knowledge and business practice Lawrence than political ideology.

[LawrenceChee]

Fair points Lawrence. You have the benefit of a western education and a life experience outside of the confines of mainland China.

Many mainland Chinese people don't.

My experience of work and life in Beijing left me with a feeling of reluctance on their part to embrace western thinking and methods. To put it simply and without wishing to be prejudicial, an obstinacy to embrace different thinking.

I am unsure why there are times when the west think its important to think western

I am unconvinced it benefits the general public with little interaction with foreigners.

What's western thinking really ? liberal and civil rights, free press and an ability to vote and eating sausages, beans and cornflakes ? :-)

The Chinese who are well connected to the net knows that liberal rights seems important and yet the protests does not lead to better standards of living,

Free in Australia where one owners owns all the papers and openly supported the opposition and directed the press ? They chuckle at it and compare it to theirs and are no different

As for the ability to vote like the west, they see Iraq and Afghanistan which were "liberated" by the west yet remains unsafe for woman to shop at markets or play on streets and they think maybe the CCP is no that bad. Anyhow I cannot see the logistics of having 1.3 billion people voting without the west claiming there are spoiled votes, invalid ballot stuffing or the likes. I believe they just decide its not the way things will work for them

Freedom of speech have any importance ?? The power of the old days of monopoly ownership of newspapers have been long been bypassed by information being freely exchanged on the internet. Oh cannot do that in China due to the Great Chinese Firewall.......

Sorrie to say that is for the most bits of people who actually go to the web for news have found proxies around the Great Wall ...lots of friends there who still use Facebook and the likes ...

[OldChinaHam]

Again, and for the last time, it is about allocation of time and resources. My desire to learn Chinese is zero.

And my desire for my daughter to spend vast amounts of time to learn Chinese is also hovering at zero.

Think I will have her learn coding..... :-)

And for a person who says they can speak and write Chinese, you should certainly know it is a picture based

language....Wait I guess on a internet board you can say anything you want.....

http://library.thinkquest.org/20443/g_tutorial1.html

"The character is the equivalent of an English word. Since Chinese is a pictographic language, it contains pictures or characters. There are approximately 50,000 Chinese characters.

I think what you are trying to say is that Chinese is a Metaphor for an Idiotgraph.

Oh, my aching Oracle Bones!

Edited September 7, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[SinglePot]

Again, and for the last time, it is about allocation of time and resources. My desire to learn Chinese is zero.

And my desire for my daughter to spend vast amounts of time to learn Chinese is also hovering at zero.

Think I will have her learn coding..... :-)

And for a person who says they can speak and write Chinese, you should certainly know it is a picture based

language....Wait I guess on a internet board you can say anything you want.....

http://library.thinkquest.org/20443/g_tutorial1.html

"The character is the equivalent of an English word. Since Chinese is a pictographic language, it contains pictures or characters. There are approximately 50,000 Chinese characters.

Never mind EWO. Simplified mandarin is easier than traditional. Another of Mao Zedong's great ideas.

Because thought and language are inextricably linked, many linguistic experts believe that this was a diservice to the society.

Sorry, sir.

But, what poppycock!

If anything, the simplified Chinese characters are more difficult to learn, and they read more slowly because it is easier for good readers to read traditional characters faster.

Also, learning traditional characters and simplified characters does not really change the difficulty level of learning Chinese.

And simplified characters did not improve the literacy rate.

That Mao was a true menace.

TO PROVE MY point, the simplest written language is just binary code, machine language maybe. So if you want to give yourself a headache, try reading War and Peace in binary.

Subtle, nuance and irony are not strong suits for the Chinese. Literary success is not applauded highly in China. In fact there is a tendency for creative literary expression to be repressed.