Gut bacteria changes linked to weight gain after quitting smoking

[Jingthing]

More evidence is piling up that the "simple math" orthodoxy of weight gain and loss is simply not true:

http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health-News/gut-bacteria-weight-gain/2013/08/30/id/523087

Noting that even people who cut back on calorie intake after quitting smoking tend to gain weight, Professor Gerhard Rogler said he and his colleagues had discovered another potential explanation: a change in the composition of the intestinal flora among smokers who kick the habit.

Their study, supported by the Swiss National Science Foundation and published in peer-reviewed scientific journal PLoS One, found that when a person stops smoking, the diversity of bacterial strains in their intestines shifts. It more resembles the gut flora found in people with obesity.

...

On Wednesday, a study published in the journal Nature found that individuals with low bacterial "richness" in their intestines were more prone to obesity and associated diseases such as diabetes, heart and cholesterol problems. Six bacterial species appear to play a key role in promoting this diversity.

Rogler said that more research was needed to answer the many questions that arise from such discoveries.

What people (smoking quitters and obese people) are supposed to do about this gut bacteria thing, I don't know. But the research goes on ...

Edited September 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[poanoi]

Easy, a modest supplement of dnp makes the bacterias hyperactive in nullifying any energy boost,

making fat gain impossible. Now if i could only stop this smoking.

Edited September 3, 2013 by poanoi

[Jingthing]

Dnp is very dangerous, yes? Is it really linked to bacteria?

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[David48]

...

Moderate Exercise and Moderate Food intake.

But, then again ... deep in your heart .. you know this ...

[poanoi]

nah, it isn't, but i can guarantee 400 mg a day will reduce fat no matter what food and no matter what quantity,

and i will at the same time say 600 mg will affect breathing in a negative way,

any more a day is downright dangerous and i can't recommend it,

in fact i would prohibit it if it was in my power, i hope none will ever try to prove his salt this way

Edited September 3, 2013 by poanoi

[poanoi]

 

...

Moderate Exercise and Moderate Food intake.

But, then again ... deep in your heart .. you know this ...

 

Cept that i cant stand moderate food intake

[robblok]

JT how many excuses do you need ?

Anyway I had a great article about this gut bacteria on T nation was quite interesting they said that stuff like kefir would help a lot.

You did know that nicotine heightens the metabolic rate ? So maybe those people did not reduce their caloric intake enough.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_scary_truth_about_probiotics&cr=

[Jingthing]

JT how many excuses do you need ?

 

Please stop with your personality agenda.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tropo]

Dnp is very dangerous, yes? Is it really linked to bacteria?

What to do? Start making kefir and drink it everyday - problem solved - healthy intestinal flora balance restored.... and they can go back to counting calories to lose the excess fat.

[tropo]

JT how many excuses do you need ?

Anyway I had a great article about this gut bacteria on T nation was quite interesting they said that stuff like kefir would help a lot.

You did know that nicotine heightens the metabolic rate ? So maybe those people did not reduce their caloric intake enough.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_scary_truth_about_probiotics&cr=

In the report presented by JT there's no actual measure of calorie consumption. It was just word of mouth.

The last paragraph:

""Nobody believed the people who stopped smoking and said they weren't eating more but still gained weight. Perhaps we simply should be more willing to believe what people tell us," he said.

Well, unless I see numbers I don't believe them. No one believes us if we don't show numbers, why should we believe them.

[chiang mai]

This really is a case of people searching desparately for excuses to blame their condition upon.

[Jingthing]

I think people are ignoring the most amazing finding of that study.

Forgetting the issue nicotine-metabolic rate and that the subjects weren't on a controlled diet before and after, the fact that the gut characteristics changed before and after smoking and the after properties were like typical obese patients is really fascinating.

I don't think there are any final answers from a study like this. Only more new questions.

[Jingthing]

This really is a case of people searching desparately for excuses to blame their condition upon.

No it isn't.

It's a study with some interesting findings.

[robblok]

I think people are ignoring the most amazing finding of that study.

Forgetting the issue nicotine-metabolic rate and that the subjects weren't on a controlled diet before and after, the fact that the gut characteristics changed before and after smoking and the after properties were like typical obese patients is really fascinating.

I don't think there are any final answers from a study like this. Only more new questions.

Yes lets forget about everything that you dont want to know.

I hope you read the t nation article.. it mentioned something you already eat.

[Jingthing]

I think people are ignoring the most amazing finding of that study.

Forgetting the issue nicotine-metabolic rate and that the subjects weren't on a controlled diet before and after, the fact that the gut characteristics changed before and after smoking and the after properties were like typical obese patients is really fascinating.

I don't think there are any final answers from a study like this. Only more new questions.

Yes lets forget about everything that you dont want to know.

I hope you read the t nation article.. it mentioned something you already eat.

Anyway, yes, that's a good article. Do you mean kimchi? Actually I eat a number of those things, regularly, probiotics and prebiotics.

The article seemed to focus on rodents. I want to see much wider HUMAN studies of these issues.

Can you explain why the quitting smokers gut bacteria would change to resemble obese people?

I think the study is too small.

I would like to see the connection between gut bacteria and obesity in all aspects studied extensively.

I think science is in the early days of studying this.

BTW, maybe this has been covered here before, but I don't remember.

Is there is a way for us as individuals to test our own gut bacteria properties to determine whether they resemble the typical obese pattern or better?

There is an assumption there as well.

Does medical science even know what percentage of obese people have this obese bacteria pattern vs. typical more normal weight people?

I doubt it.

Then of course there is the chicken -- egg thing. How much did the bacteria issue contribute to the obesity vs. how much the obesity contributed to the bacteria properties.

The smoking thing I would think could be an important clue. Just quitting smoking and then the bacteria properties change to the obese type. WHY?

Edited September 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[David48]

JT ... out of curiosity ... have you recently given up smoking?

Say, within the past 2 years?

[chiang mai]

This really is a case of people searching desparately for excuses to blame their condition upon.

No it isn't.

It's a study with some interesting findings.

Go talk to a reputable gastroenterologist and ask them if they think that priobotics serve any value, I have.

[canman]

I quit smoking and switched to a more healthy diet. After 6 weeks I have lost 7 Kg (110Kg-103Kg), next weigh in on Friday and I expect to show a total loss of between 9-10Kg.

I don't count calories I simply reduced my carbs and sugar intake, eating more seafood (especially oily fish such as sardines and salmon), veg, nuts, berries and fruit. No rice, potatoe, pasta or bread. No processed foods what so ever. Taking fish oil and flax seed oil supplements as well to assist in turning my cholesterol numbers around. I feel great and sleeping much better, the next step is to increase physical activity as I expect the weight loss will soon plateau.

I looked around at various nutrition, weight loss, lifestyle etc sources and the only conclusion I have been able to make is that for every claim made you can find a counter claim from another source. It's simple, burn more calories than you take in and you will lose weight, lots of noise out there about metabolic rates, food synergies, bacteria profiles yada yada yada. You cannot get away from the simple physics that if energy in > energy out you will have a bulidup of energy which in the human body = fat. Reverse that equation and you will lose fat.

It may be true that some people store fat more readily than others and I have known people who consume more calories than I do and are less active yet do no put on weight, Differant metabolic rates and processes mean the individual will burn that energy at differant rates, this does not mean the above formula is false.

I accept for some it is more difficult to shed fat but it is still the case of burn more energy than you put in and you will lose fat. The ugly truth is that a weight loss diet is boring and it turns out more expensive, I am eating SGD40 worth of berries a week for example.

I guess my point is, I think we all know what needs to be done to lose fat, too many people overthink the mechanics of it. For some, maybe they get more joy from great food than they will from shedding a few kilos, I get that.

[chiang mai]

I couldn't agree more, losing weight and changing to a healthy diet/lifestyle is really hard work which is why most people fail in the early stages. To be sucessful a person needs either very strong willpower or a catalyst such as a medical conditon to provide the incentive.

[robblok]

I couldn't agree more, losing weight and changing to a healthy diet/lifestyle is really hard work which is why most people fail in the early stages. To be sucessful a person needs either very strong willpower or a catalyst such as a medical conditon to provide the incentive.

I agree, its about willpower and priorities. If i want more money, ill work more. If i want more girls I date more girls. ect ect.

Same goes for fat loss if I want to loose more fat i need to be more stricter and workout more. Might go for questionable aids whatever.. but the fact is it takes effort.

Nothing comes for free.. sure there are people who are blessed with more fast metabolic rate, my metabolic rate is quite slow and I gain fat quite easy. On the other hand, i gain muscles on my arms and shoulders quite easy too. We are all gifted with some different things and can do a lot within our set boundaries. All it takes is effort.

From what i have read of JT he is constantly looking for reasons why he could not loose it instead of finding ways to loose it or to put more effort in it. I believe there are small things that help a bit, but in the end the biggest part is eating less and doing some sports. Most studies showed people doing sports preferably weightlifting and a form of cardio plus a healthy diet would be off best.

I have been to many gyms and loads of people don't workout like I workout.. I go to the limit.. i don't feel good when it goes easy. I sweat i workout hard and try to go up all the time. Then you got those people who think that walking on a treadmill and doing the same weights over and over again that obviously dont cost them effort will help them. Doing isolation exercises instead of compounds never breaking much of a sweat.

Its a mentality question.. if you want something bad enough then you can do it (within your limits)

[chiang mai]

I've just come back from four days in Bangkok, my first real visit there for a few years and I was shocked at how hard it was to find basic healthy food to eat, everything in the restaurants was basic food made fancy. Granted I stayed in Siam Square and my choice of good quality restaurant was almost unlimted and many of the dishes on offer were hugely appealing. But when you're disciplined to eat low carb and to eat only protein and healthy vegetables it means doing things slightly differently,

in my case it meant ordering the buffet at the hotel for THB 900 pp and cherry picking the right foods which comprised about one twentieth of what was on offer. Not only does it get expensive but it gets to be hard work so I'm pleased to be home, the alternative would have been to gorge on what was offered and to suffer the consequences. I'm not trying to trumpet my achievments here but I am trying to make the point that if you want or need something badly enough, you'll work at it, regardless of the temptations put in your way.

[robblok]

I've just come back from four days in Bangkok, my first real visit there for a few years and I was shocked at how hard it was to find basic healthy food to eat, everything in the restaurants was basic food made fancy. Granted I stayed in Siam Square and my choice of good quality restaurant was almost unlimted and many of the dishes on offer were hugely appealing. But when you're disciplined to eat low carb and to eat only protein and healthy vegetables it means doing things slightly differently,

in my case it meant ordering the buffet at the hotel for THB 900 pp and cherry picking the right foods which comprised about one twentieth of what was on offer. Not only does it get expensive but it gets to be hard work so I'm pleased to be home, the alternative would have been to gorge on what was offered and to suffer the consequences. I'm not trying to trumpet my achievments here but I am trying to make the point that if you want or need something badly enough, you'll work at it, regardless of the temptations put in your way.

Where is your home ? Chiang Mai ?

Anyway I dont have problems finding healthy stuff but I am boring. I go to sizzler, love their salad bar. I go to Vietnamese restaurants (loads of veggies and a bit of meat). I enjoy oishy buffet and gorge myself on the salmon. In the end its about making the healthiest choice available. Soon I will be with my parents and brother on a holiday in the south of Thailand. Things will get a bit harder then, I will just go for meat and salads then. But I will be in the water too snorkeling 3 hours a day or so. So ill burn through quite a lot too.

Edited September 4, 2013 by robblok

[tropo]

This really is a case of people searching desparately for excuses to blame their condition upon.

No it isn't.

It's a study with some interesting findings.

Go talk to a reputable gastroenterologist and ask them if they think that priobotics serve any value, I have.

What did they have to say about probiotics?

[poanoi]

I have taken albendazole in morning and yoghurt in evening for a few days, and my stomach is normal again.

(knock on wood)

[tropo]

I've just come back from four days in Bangkok, my first real visit there for a few years and I was shocked at how hard it was to find basic healthy food to eat, everything in the restaurants was basic food made fancy. Granted I stayed in Siam Square and my choice of good quality restaurant was almost unlimted and many of the dishes on offer were hugely appealing. But when you're disciplined to eat low carb and to eat only protein and healthy vegetables it means doing things slightly differently,

in my case it meant ordering the buffet at the hotel for THB 900 pp and cherry picking the right foods which comprised about one twentieth of what was on offer. Not only does it get expensive but it gets to be hard work so I'm pleased to be home, the alternative would have been to gorge on what was offered and to suffer the consequences. I'm not trying to trumpet my achievments here but I am trying to make the point that if you want or need something badly enough, you'll work at it, regardless of the temptations put in your way.

May I suggest the Hachiban Ramen restaurants. You'll recognize them by the big red "8" on their window. They're all over Bangkok. You can have a tasty high protein/low carb meal there for under 200 baht.

[chiang mai]

This really is a case of people searching desparately for excuses to blame their condition upon.

No it isn't.

It's a study with some interesting findings.

Go talk to a reputable gastroenterologist and ask them if they think that priobotics serve any value, I have.

What did they have to say about probiotics?

The two gastro's I've seen in CM, Dr K is Professor Emeritus at CMU and Dr P is Assist. Prof. at same: both said that the probiotic effect is typically physcological rather than a real manifestation, a placebo type reaction in most cases. There are however cases where bacterial growth is recommeneded, typically after long courses of antibiotics where bacterial gut has been substantially reduced and a kick start is needed. In terms of an individual being able to tweak bacterial growth in their gut via probiotics or to adjust the types and volumes of them, it's unproven medical science that's highly unreliable, the following article supports and is typical:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5455188/Probiotic-supplements-have-no-proven-benefit-for-healthy-people.html

On the same note, I occaisionally talk to medical specialists about supplements, typically when I've just read about something of interest, my previous GP was always in favour of supplements and once again and it became very worrying and that was one of the reasons I stopped seeing her.

The specialists I have talked to have said the same thing, it's uproven medical science and you can go there if you wish but if you do, don't come back to consult with me and BTW, you take the risks. Case in point was Alpha Lipoic Acid supplements which are touted as being a saviour when it comes to lowering blood glucose levels, sure it might do that but it also can have a devastating effect on the liver, as I found out. But how many people do you imagine would have their liver enzymes checked, simply because they had started taking a supplement, I did so because of a known problem with Crestor hence the ALA problem was a bi-product of that check. No, sorry, if supplements were all they are touted to be they would be a part of mainstream medical science, but they not.

[chiang mai]

I have taken albendazole in morning and yoghurt in evening for a few days, and my stomach is normal again. (knock on wood)

That's great, but that's a mainstream drug rather than a probiotic, regardless, I'm happy it's worked for you.

[chiang mai]

I've just come back from four days in Bangkok, my first real visit there for a few years and I was shocked at how hard it was to find basic healthy food to eat, everything in the restaurants was basic food made fancy. Granted I stayed in Siam Square and my choice of good quality restaurant was almost unlimted and many of the dishes on offer were hugely appealing. But when you're disciplined to eat low carb and to eat only protein and healthy vegetables it means doing things slightly differently,

in my case it meant ordering the buffet at the hotel for THB 900 pp and cherry picking the right foods which comprised about one twentieth of what was on offer. Not only does it get expensive but it gets to be hard work so I'm pleased to be home, the alternative would have been to gorge on what was offered and to suffer the consequences. I'm not trying to trumpet my achievments here but I am trying to make the point that if you want or need something badly enough, you'll work at it, regardless of the temptations put in your way.

May I suggest the Hachiban Ramen restaurants. You'll recognize them by the big red "8" on their window. They're all over Bangkok. You can have a tasty high protein/low carb meal there for under 200 baht.

You may indeed and many thanks for it, I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm there.

[Fookhaht]

I wish I had a 16-year long video tape record of a death-in-progress from smoking.

The taped record would be of my grandfather, who could never draw a full breath for my entire childhood & teen years. It would show him with blue lips for the last 3 years of his slow death, hooked to oxygen tanks. It would highlight eyes that bugged out from the fear that every feeble breath would be his last. It would show me sitting by his armchair, but never able to hold a conversation with him because he didn't have the spare breath to include more than 3 or 4 short words at a time--then back to gasping.

If I had the tape and the time, I would send it to every friend and loved one who smokes. I would dare say, after viewing such a depressing visual record, they would not need any more excuses about quitting. The visual record is indelibly imprinted on my memory, and at tactful moments I try to share it with others who need to know.

My actions and wishes are not because I'm arrogant or judgmental toward smokers in my sphere of acquaintances, friends, and loved ones; but because I love them.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Fookhaht

[Thaddeus]

After being a smoker for 35 years, I decided to quit just over a month ago 31/7/13. Total cold turkey, haven't touch one since.

I had already made my mind up that I wasn't going to substitute the little white stick with something else. so my diet has remained exactly the same, as has my weight.