Gut bacteria changes linked to weight gain after quitting smoking

[chiang mai]

I believe that use of BMI has been dropped by many medical authorities in the West becuase it can be misleading, not nicknamed the Bloody Meaningless Indicator for nothing. But if it works for individuals then it continues to serve a useful purpose, it doesn't work for everyone however, especially me.

[tropo]

Willpower is something you can strengthen.

How ?

It helps if you have an important goal, but normally if you give in to cravings, your resolve weakens. The more you resist the easier it becomes.

[tropo]

That's your opinion only.

I doubt that. It is shared by many. I'm just trying to be PC by adding the IMO.

You don't have to be a bodybuilder to carry more than average muscle mass. There's also big variations in frame sizes. Sometimes you'll look at a relatively small guy and find that he weighs much more than you'd expect... and I've seen the reverse many times too.

Edited September 7, 2013 by tropo

[Jingthing]

I believe that use of BMI has been dropped by many medical authorities in the West becuase it can be misleading, not nicknamed the Bloody Meaningless Indicator for nothing. But if it works for individuals then it continues to serve a useful purpose, it doesn't work for everyone however, especially me.

That may be of academic interest but in my case and I think most obese people, BMI numbers going DOWN, and waist size numbers going DOWN is a good thing. Just checked the Mayo Clinic website, they've got a BMI calculator too. I understand there are other measures of health risks. Just read that normal weight people with ideal weight BMI's with fat mostly in their waist are at very high disease risk (based on a waist-hip ratio). If I ever get close to ideal weight I'll get to think about that.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2012-rst/7052.html

Edited September 7, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Willpower is something you can strengthen.

How ?

It helps if you have an important goal, but normally if you give in to cravings, your resolve weakens. The more you resist the easier it becomes.

I agree.. and when you start to give in you give in more and more.

[chiang mai]

I believe that use of BMI has been dropped by many medical authorities in the West becuase it can be misleading, not nicknamed the Bloody Meaningless Indicator for nothing. But if it works for individuals then it continues to serve a useful purpose, it doesn't work for everyone however, especially me.

That may be of academic interest but in my case and I think most obese people, BMI numbers going DOWN, and waist size numbers going DOWN is a good thing. Just checked the Mayo Clinic website, they've got a BMI calculator too. I understand there are other measures of health risks. Just read that normal weight people with ideal weight BMI's with fat mostly in their waist are at very high disease risk (based on a waist-hip ratio). If I ever get close to ideal weight I'll get to think about that.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2012-rst/7052.html

There's loads of other references out there from more authoratative sources but this blog wraps up the points into a single page quite neicely:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439

[chiang mai]

A very interesting article on fructose/sucrose vs diabetes and weight gain, useful reading for anyone planing/trying to diet:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/07/smoothies-fruit-juices-new-health-risk

[Jingthing]

There's loads of other references out there from more authoratative sources but this blog wraps up the points into a single page quite neicely:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439

Thanks!

Because the majority of people today (and in Quetelet's time) lead fairly sedentary lives and are not particularly active, the formula tacitly assumes low muscle mass and high relative fat content. It applies moderately well when applied to such people because it was formulated by focusing on them.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Jingthing

[tropo]

I believe that use of BMI has been dropped by many medical authorities in the West becuase it can be misleading, not nicknamed the Bloody Meaningless Indicator for nothing. But if it works for individuals then it continues to serve a useful purpose, it doesn't work for everyone however, especially me.

That may be of academic interest but in my case and I think most obese people, BMI numbers going DOWN, and waist size numbers going DOWN is a good thing. Just checked the Mayo Clinic website, they've got a BMI calculator too. I understand there are other measures of health risks. Just read that normal weight people with ideal weight BMI's with fat mostly in their waist are at very high disease risk (based on a waist-hip ratio). If I ever get close to ideal weight I'll get to think about that.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2012-rst/7052.html

There's loads of other references out there from more authoratative sources but this blog wraps up the points into a single page quite neicely:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439

I loved that! I bookmarked it for future reference.

All the points were good. These were my favourites:

"4. It gets the logic wrong.

The CDC says on its Web site that "the BMI is a reliable indicator of body fatness for people." This is a fundamental error of logic. For example, if I tell you my birthday present is a bicycle, you can conclude that my present has wheels. That's correct logic. But it does not work the other way round. If I tell you my birthday present has wheels, you cannot conclude I got a bicycle. I could have received a car. Because of how Quetelet came up with it, if a person is fat or obese, he or she will have a high BMI. But as with my birthday present, it doesn't work the other way round. A high BMI does not mean an individual is even overweight, let alone obese. It could mean the person is fit and healthy, with very little fat.

8. It makes the more cynical members of society suspect that the medical insurance industry lobbies for the continued use of the BMI to keep their profits high.

Insurance companies sometimes charge higher premiums for people with a high BMI. Among such people are all those fit individuals with good bone and muscle and little fat, who will live long, healthy lives during which they will have to pay those greater premiums.

10. It embarrasses the U.S.

It is embarrassing for one of the most scientifically, technologically and medicinally advanced nations in the world to base advice on how to prevent one of the leading causes of poor health and premature death (obesity) on a 200-year-old numerical hack developed by a mathematician who was not even an expert in what little was known about the human body back then."

Using a 200 year old formula - that's pathetic. The insurance companies love it - fit, healthy people with high BMI pay more insurance for longer.

Edited September 7, 2013 by tropo

[poanoi]

Nothing wrong with an old formula if it was sound, like Pythagoras 2500 year ole theorem,

but the bloody meaningless index isnt sound, since it has no variable referring to fat or muscle mass

Edited September 7, 2013 by poanoi

[tropo]

Nothing wrong with an old formula if it was sound, like Pythagoras 2500 year ole theorem,

but the bloody meaningless index isnt sound, since it has no variable referring to fat or muscle mass

Medical knowledge cannot be compared to mathematics. They knew next to nothing about the human body in the 1800's.

[poanoi]

I believe math can explain most things,

if you include all variables and can define those variables in numerical values

which he didnt btw

Edited September 7, 2013 by poanoi

[Tolley]

On the subject of weight loss has anybody here used a supplement called E - Liminate from Beast which is an estrogen blocker or so it says.

I bought some today and was wondering if anyone had experience with this or similar product?

[LCSulla]

More support for Jingthing from this weeks Economist

A CALORIE is a calorie. Eat too many and spend too few, and you will become obese and sickly. This is the conventional wisdom. But increasingly, it looks too simplistic. All calories do not seem to be created equal, and the way the body processes the same calories may vary dramatically from one person to the next.

This is the intriguing suggestion from the latest research into metabolic syndrome, the nasty clique that includes high blood pressure, high blood sugar, unbalanced cholesterol and, of course, obesity. This uniquely modern scourge has swept across America, where obesity rates are notoriously high. But it is also doing damage from Mexico to South Africa and India, raising levels of disease and pushing up health costs.

Full article here

http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21586269-how-bacteria-your-gut-may-be-shaping-your-waistline-wider-understanding

[poanoi]

More importantly, metabolism drop like a stone from age 30,

the entire body and brain is going downhill, there is only one way and it will inevitably end in a humiliating death.

You can fight it, but you can't win, you can only delay the inevitable some years,

...so why bother ?

Edited September 15, 2013 by poanoi

[robblok]

More importantly, metabolism drop like a stone from age 30,

the entire body and brain is going downhill, there is only one way and it will inevitably end in a humiliating death.

You can fight it, but you can't win, you can only delay the inevitable some years,

...so why bother ?

I read you can mostly counter it by lifting weights and keeping muscle. Not one 100% but counter it for a large part just look at it. Also your drop as a stone is not really accurate as they are not talking about 50% drop more like 10% per decade after 40.

But a controlled study found that it only has to be 5% overall if you keep onto muscle.

But of course in the end its a loosing battle as no one can fight aging, but i rather age while fighting and keeping things up as much as I can then giving up.

People who are active.. lifting weights cardio ect live longer and healthier lives.

Edited September 16, 2013 by robblok

[Jingthing]

As far as longevity aspirations of course the more important part of that is that the years be QUALITY years. A moderate investment in fitness (time and money) has a good chance of increasing the quality of the later years and probably the number of them. However, in my view, many fitness fans make this their lifestyle choice, living in the gym, and arrogantly look down on those who are just totally bored by that. They don't necessarily get the return on investment (a dramatic increase in quality years) they might think they are getting compared to moderate exercisers. Like most things, a "middle way" is often the most sensible. I also doubt most people really want to live for decades in severe pain and suffering, again, QUALITY years.

Nobody is really debating now that living a very inactive life is likely to shorten your lifespan, whether you are normal weight, overweight, or obese. But there are extremes at both ends.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

As far as longevity aspirations of course the more important part of that is that the years be QUALITY years. A moderate investment in fitness (time and money) has a good chance of increasing the quality of the later years and probably the number of them. However, in my view, many fitness fans make this their lifestyle choice, living in the gym, and arrogantly look down on those who are just totally bored by that. They don't necessarily get the return on investment (a dramatic increase in quality years) they might think they are getting compared to moderate exercisers. Like most things, a "middle way" is often the most sensible. I also doubt most people really want to live for decades in severe pain and suffering, again, QUALITY years.

Nobody is really debating now that living a very inactive life is likely to shorten your lifespan, whether you are normal weight, overweight, or obese. But there are extremes at both ends.

The discussion is of course what is moderate how many hours are needed and so on. Id say working out 4 times a week at 45 min to an hour is not much at all. I have done more much more current ly doing this.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/exercise/AN01713

Going by these nrs that isnt even much they are talking about exercising half an hour a day. Even more then that.. in the end its of course the choice of the one working out.

But in my opinion and its a good opinion as i got years of experience in gyms... 2 times a week just isn't going to cut it.

Edited September 16, 2013 by robblok

[Tolley]

More support for Jingthing from this weeks Economist

A CALORIE is a calorie. Eat too many and spend too few, and you will become obese and sickly. This is the conventional wisdom. But increasingly, it looks too simplistic. All calories do not seem to be created equal, and the way the body processes the same calories may vary dramatically from one person to the next.

This is the intriguing suggestion from the latest research into metabolic syndrome, the nasty clique that includes high blood pressure, high blood sugar, unbalanced cholesterol and, of course, obesity. This uniquely modern scourge has swept across America, where obesity rates are notoriously high. But it is also doing damage from Mexico to South Africa and India, raising levels of disease and pushing up health costs.

Full article here

http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21586269-how-bacteria-your-gut-may-be-shaping-your-waistline-wider-understanding

What comes first the chicken or the egg? If you have a poor diet and general poor overall health then it is sort of a downward spiral which just accelerates as the whole body gets out of whack .ie. blood sugar issues, liver not functioning well, poor digestion etc.

All these things just compound one on top of the other and the end result is not pretty.

And unfortunately the average person these days is more like what I have described than the other way around. The body can take a fair amount of punishment but years of abuse will inevitably result in a myriad of systemic problems. Sooner or later the body will rebel and it may be that the situation has become so bad that you are forced onto the prescription merry go round which will keep you going but never fixes the underlying issues and may lead to other problems.

[chiang mai]

I firmly believe that the key to it all lies in understanding your blood profile at any point in time, a thousand baht's worth of blood tests can tell you whether you have metabolic syndrome and or if you are heading towards it and also the state of your lipids, renal, liver and glucose panels, if they are adrift or if they are starting to go that way there's a chance to do something about it before the situation becomes too dire or indeed becomes irreversible. It's for that reason that I have those checks about every eight weeks although there was a time when I was doing so monthly. I believe that for people who are risk, i.e overweight, don't exercise, suffer from CAD or similar, leaving those tests until every three or six months is very dangerous I think because it reduces the chance of recovery,

I've had metabolic syndrome and developing it spurred me into action without even needing a word of advice from any doctor until after the fact. I tested each month for about eight months and adjusted my exercise, diet and weight until the numbers came right, which in retropect wasn't that had to do. These days I test every two months because there are still events that cause the numbers to derail, case in point was my cardio telling me to drink a couple of glasses of red wine several days a week, fine by me I thought. In practice it was not fine since it caused all manner of wierdness in the test results which rapidly went from being near perfect to being uncomfortably far out of range. The key is that I knew within short time scales that it was happening hence I had a chance to respond and correct things.

So the end result doesn't need to be a downward spiral or handfulls of meds, the key to it all is understanding where you are at any point in time and being able to take action.

[tropo]

More support for Jingthing from this weeks Economist

A CALORIE is a calorie. Eat too many and spend too few, and you will become obese and sickly. This is the conventional wisdom. But increasingly, it looks too simplistic. All calories do not seem to be created equal, and the way the body processes the same calories may vary dramatically from one person to the next.

This is the intriguing suggestion from the latest research into metabolic syndrome, the nasty clique that includes high blood pressure, high blood sugar, unbalanced cholesterol and, of course, obesity. This uniquely modern scourge has swept across America, where obesity rates are notoriously high. But it is also doing damage from Mexico to South Africa and India, raising levels of disease and pushing up health costs.

Full article here

http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21586269-how-bacteria-your-gut-may-be-shaping-your-waistline-wider-understanding

What comes first the chicken or the egg? If you have a poor diet and general poor overall health then it is sort of a downward spiral which just accelerates as the whole body gets out of whack .ie. blood sugar issues, liver not functioning well, poor digestion etc.

All these things just compound one on top of the other and the end result is not pretty.

And unfortunately the average person these days is more like what I have described than the other way around. The body can take a fair amount of punishment but years of abuse will inevitably result in a myriad of systemic problems. Sooner or later the body will rebel and it may be that the situation has become so bad that you are forced onto the prescription merry go round which will keep you going but never fixes the underlying issues and may lead to other problems.

Stating the obvious - this downward spiral you speak of will happen no matter what you do. The way you put things here one may think you can cheat death by eating the right way.

... stressed out, anal health fanatics can die sooner than you think... just due to the stress of it all. The key to the best living is somewhere in the middle.

We must always remember that it's impossible to "get it right", because most topics of health are heavily debated and there's no consensus on which is the best way to travel - and because we only have one shot we can never be certain.

I used to be one of these fanatics. It can be a miserable existence if you overdo it.

[anon8]

more about the bacteria in the belly in Huffingtonpost.com

[tropo]

So the end result doesn't need to be a downward spiral or handfulls of meds, the key to it all is understanding where you are at any point in time and being able to take action.

Getting back to harsh reality....

You're heading on a downward spiral from the moment you're born - you're talking about slowing it down.

Nature loses interest in humans once they get to the end of their reproductive life. That's all that nature requires of us... any more than that is a bonus (or a curse)...

Reality can be very depressing. .. and the longer you live the more depressing it becomes. There's a good reason why alcohol is so popular and expats come to Thailand to drink themselves to death.

(Don't mind me - I've just finished watching the TV series "The Following")

Edited September 16, 2013 by tropo

[chiang mai]

Of course, said within the context of, "nothing lasts forever". But as another poster said earlier, I'd much rather spend my time here in decent physical shape for as long as possible rather than a slow drawn out downwards spiral involving increasing ammounts of medication, make the grip reaper work for his catch I say.

[robblok]

Of course, said within the context of, "nothing lasts forever". But as another poster said earlier, I'd much rather spend my time here in decent physical shape for as long as possible rather than a slow drawn out downwards spiral involving increasing ammounts of medication, make the grip reaper work for his catch I say.

Indeed,

That things are in a downward spiral I won't deny but a good diet and exercise can extend the quality of life. Of course you should not stress about everything.

I found that part that i posted that they said even 300 minutes yields better results as less (exercise a week) interesting. I did not think the requirement was that high. I have almost never been over those 300 minutes of exercise a week. The only time i was over it was when I really wanted to loose weight badly and I did workout every day for around an hour. Now I am back to 4 days a eek (sometimes a day more sometimes a day less). I feel that that is for me enough as I am more maintaining now than anything else.

Doubt I can get more muscle, fat I might be able to loose even more but at real high cost in exercise that right now I am just thinking of maintaining and getting my muscles all at the same level. So it just requires less time.

As I have stated motivation does show how much weight you can loose JT his remark and my remark illustrate that good. I know I can loose even more if I ad a lot more rowing now to my program but its just not worth it at the moment. In the end it all depends how much you are willing to give for your goal.

[chiang mai]

300! I thought I was doing very well at 45 mins x 5, you want me to do more, jeeze!

Actually I do have one question, since you're around:

Do you suffer any negative kidney function problems as a result of low carb/high(er) protein diets? I find since I went low carb and I've shed all the fat I need to (no fatty liver for me) that my BUN readings have gone above the upper range, I'm working on the basis that's due to either high protein or dehydration and am trying to adjust both but just curious if that's ever been an issue for you?

Edited September 17, 2013 by chiang mai

[robblok]

300! I thought I was doing very well at 45 mins x 5, you want me to do more, jeeze!

Actually I do have one question, since you're around:

Do you suffer any negative kidney function problems as a result of low carb/high(er) protein diets? I find since I went low carb and I've shed all the fat I need to (no fatty liver for me) that my BUN readings have gone above the upper range, I'm working on the basis that's due to either high protein or dehydration and am trying to adjust both but just curious if that's ever been an issue for you?

I am not saying I want you to more, I was actually surprised they mentioned it. I posted the link in one of my previous posts.

There were periods that I did more as 300 minutes a week but that was 7 times a week 60 min or so. But only a few months.

Now i just do 4 times an hour or 5 times an hour each , could be 3 times an hour too in some weeks.

I have never had the problems with my BUN readings, but just speculating that i might require more proteins then you as I got more muscle to hold on too ? Might not be the reason but it could be. I mean maybe my protein is all used up.

Edited September 17, 2013 by robblok

[chiang mai]

Yes, makes sence about the BUN.

[Tolley]

More support for Jingthing from this weeks Economist

A CALORIE is a calorie. Eat too many and spend too few, and you will become obese and sickly. This is the conventional wisdom. But increasingly, it looks too simplistic. All calories do not seem to be created equal, and the way the body processes the same calories may vary dramatically from one person to the next.

This is the intriguing suggestion from the latest research into metabolic syndrome, the nasty clique that includes high blood pressure, high blood sugar, unbalanced cholesterol and, of course, obesity. This uniquely modern scourge has swept across America, where obesity rates are notoriously high. But it is also doing damage from Mexico to South Africa and India, raising levels of disease and pushing up health costs.

Full article here

http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21586269-how-bacteria-your-gut-may-be-shaping-your-waistline-wider-understanding

What comes first the chicken or the egg? If you have a poor diet and general poor overall health then it is sort of a downward spiral which just accelerates as the whole body gets out of whack .ie. blood sugar issues, liver not functioning well, poor digestion etc.

All these things just compound one on top of the other and the end result is not pretty.

And unfortunately the average person these days is more like what I have described than the other way around. The body can take a fair amount of punishment but years of abuse will inevitably result in a myriad of systemic problems. Sooner or later the body will rebel and it may be that the situation has become so bad that you are forced onto the prescription merry go round which will keep you going but never fixes the underlying issues and may lead to other problems.

Stating the obvious - this downward spiral you speak of will happen no matter what you do. The way you put things here one may think you can cheat death by eating the right way.

... stressed out, anal health fanatics can die sooner than you think... just due to the stress of it all. The key to the best living is somewhere in the middle.

We must always remember that it's impossible to "get it right", because most topics of health are heavily debated and there's no consensus on which is the best way to travel - and because we only have one shot we can never be certain.

I used to be one of these fanatics. It can be a miserable existence if you overdo it.

It is not about being fanatical at all. It is about being in touch with your body and how you feel and developing good habits. I certainly dont have a miserable existance. I have a very full and satisfying life and part of the reason for that is that I have remained in robust health.

Further I dont worry what other people think or say about health i worry how I feel and what best suits me and my individual circumstances.

And a downward spiral will not automatically happen. You can remain healthy into late old age. You need a bit of luck as well as good planning but there are people out there who are old and healthy and vibrant.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Tolley

[tropo]

300! I thought I was doing very well at 45 mins x 5, you want me to do more, jeeze!

Actually I do have one question, since you're around:

Do you suffer any negative kidney function problems as a result of low carb/high(er) protein diets? I find since I went low carb and I've shed all the fat I need to (no fatty liver for me) that my BUN readings have gone above the upper range, I'm working on the basis that's due to either high protein or dehydration and am trying to adjust both but just curious if that's ever been an issue for you?

That's interesting that you've gone so high. I'm usually in the high teens to low 20's mg/dl BUN on a very high protein diet. (200 grams + per day). My lab has 5 - 25 mg/dl as the normal range.