Help - Another ER6n Problem

[Ticketmaster]

My 2010 ER6n electrical system has died. Here's what happened:

I took off on my ER6n to pick up a few items in town (50km, round trip). I was about 20 km from home and it started to run a little rough. I looked down at the LCD gauges and NOTHING. Everything dead. No speedo, no odometer, no idiot lights, nothing. I tried the turn signals, the horn, nothing. I put it in neutral (when moving at about 100kpm) turned off the engine and tried to restart. Nothing. I put it back into gear and dumped the clutch and the engine caught. I hung a u-turn and raced for home. As long as I kept the RPMs up, I could continue, though running rough. I could tell that if I let the RPM's drop too low, I'd be walking. Like an idiot, when I was about 5km from home, I clutched and let the RPMs drop as I was making a sharp 90 degree right turn. The engine died immediately and would not restart upon popping the clutch. Everything was dead as a door-nail. First thing I did was check all the fuses on the spot -- all good. The next thing I did was start walking and pushed the bike the 5km to get home.

By the way, as it was dying, I never noticed idiot lights, etc., which doesn't mean they weren't on; I just don't know. I have tank bag partially blocking view and was riding at a fairly good clip that commanded my attention to be on the road. By the time i realized there was a problem everything was DEAD.

The battery was dead. I put it on a charger, and it took a partial charge, then my Battery Tender Waterproof 800 charger (used only once before) went belly up (beware of this product). With the partial charge, everything lit up as usual and the starter started to engage before I got the clicking sound caused by insufficient charge. I am confident that it would have started up had there been sufficient charge. I will buy a battery charger today to get a good charge on the battery before continuing my troubleshooting.

It appears that the alternator died a sudden death. In the old days, there was a voltage regulator that sometimes went out, but in modern vehicles all that is usually built into the alternator electronics. So I'm strongly suspecting the alternator, though I am surprised at the suddenness of the death. My ER only has 45,500 km.

Has anybody experienced anything like this?

Edited September 4, 2013 by Ticketmaster

[seedy]

Check the battery - by replacing it - before diving into the alternator.

My HD did the exact same thing, charging system all OK. Battery NFG.

[Wong!]

The wife's Wave did the same. Sounds like the usual story of the local climate being unkind to batteries.

[guzzi850m2]

Check the battery - by replacing it - before diving into the alternator.

My HD did the exact same thing, charging system all OK. Battery NFG.

Yes I agree.

OP if your battery is original so about 3 years old then they often start going bad.

Tropical climate is really hard on batteries, they prefer cold temperatures.

Ohh Wong just wrote the same, he-he.

Edited September 4, 2013 by guzzi850m2

[JonnyF]

My Ninja 250 did the same thing, sometimes I'd turn the key and it was totally dead, sometimes all the lights would come on and it would start. Engine was cutting out at low RPM etc. The battery was the problem in this case as well. Happened when the bike was about 2 and a half years old but I was doing a lot of short journeys at that time so in fairness the battery had a hard life.

[Nickymaster]

I also believe that the Battery needs replacement.

[ll2]

did you try to hit the bike on 2nd gear? as if ti is a battery problem, it has supposed to work this way.

Edited September 4, 2013 by ll2

[VocalNeal]

Just curious did you try to start the bike with the Battery Tender connected? Which is maybe why it doesn't work any more?

As has been said batteries here don't last as long as in temperate climates and when they fail it is suddenly.

Keep the battery tender and try it on the new battery.

[KRS1]

Another dead battery here, mine just went dead with no warning at all...

Freaked me out and confused me also., since with a car you can tell when its about to go bad...

check acid level and try recharging again.

Get FB battery, Yuasa sucks

[Ticketmaster]

Just curious did you try to start the bike with the Battery Tender connected? Which is maybe why it doesn't work any more?

As has been said batteries here don't last as long as in temperate climates and when they fail it is suddenly.

Keep the battery tender and try it on the new battery.

I did not try to start the bike with battery Tender connected. When I came to check the charging process, the LED on the Battery Tender was dead. I tested the Battery Tender with a volt meter (from more than one plug in location) -- nothing; dead. Checking Amazon reviews, I see quite a few people have had this problem.

[Ticketmaster]

Just curious did you try to start the bike with the Battery Tender connected? Which is maybe why it doesn't work any more?

As has been said batteries here don't last as long as in temperate climates and when they fail it is suddenly.

Keep the battery tender and try it on the new battery.

I did not try to start the bike with battery Tender connected. When I came to check the charging process, the LED on the Battery Tender was dead. I tested the Battery Tender with a volt meter (from more than one plug in location) -- nothing; dead. Checking Amazon reviews, I see quite a few people have had this problem.

[VocalNeal]

OK but if the battery has been below 10.5 volts it will never be 100% so you need a new one!

[Woodsie888]

Just curious did you try to start the bike with the Battery Tender connected? Which is maybe why it doesn't work any more?

As has been said batteries here don't last as long as in temperate climates and when they fail it is suddenly.

Keep the battery tender and try it on the new battery.

I did not try to start the bike with battery Tender connected. When I came to check the charging process, the LED on the Battery Tender was dead. I tested the Battery Tender with a volt meter (from more than one plug in location) -- nothing; dead. Checking Amazon reviews, I see quite a few people have had this problem.

13 posts later, I trust you have replaced the battery!

Let us know.

[Ticketmaster]

Well I am so damned frustrated, I can't stand it. Last night, I wrote a rather long post, but when I tried to post, I got a TV message, "Sorry, you don't have permission for that!" and lost all my writing. As you can see, there is a double post above that I can't explain. This morning, I just wrote another long post and was just finishing up when I bumped some key on my keyboard and the TV page suddenly changed and my work was gone.

I am building a house and need to go to work. All I can say is that a dead battery as the culprit defies all logic. In addition, I replaced the battery with an OEM battery less than a year ago.

I bought a charger yesterday and will put it on the bike this morning before I go to work and will give a battery report this evening, assuming I can harness this horrible TV forum. TV has got to be the least user friendly forum I have ever used.

[Shurup]

It could be the battery, if it got shorted inside, you'd loose all the power made by generator. If you have the battery out, you should be able to push start the bike now.

I can't explain why the battery would hold the charge now... maybe your charger quit because of the short battery too?

I'd try push starting the bike to check the electrical systems, all should work now if the battery was the culprit, and if it is, then don't try recharging it, I've had a battery exploded on me, it was really messy and I could have been seriously hurt if I was near it, I was sitting inside the car when it happened and I got out with my ears ringing...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[VocalNeal]

Well I am so damned frustrated, I can't stand it. Last night, I wrote a rather long post, but when I tried to post, I got a TV message, "Sorry, you don't have permission for that!" and lost all my writing.

Discovered than many years ago, not just here.

Now if I wish to compose a long-ish reply that might need a couple of edits I do it in Word and cut and paste.

[Shurup]

Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, Submit.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wantan]

Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, Submit.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And Ctrl+V to paste the text in case of (connection) trouble after submit. I do it like this if i have a bad connection.

TV forum also has an "auto save" feature which saves the text every one or two minutes. If you leave the page without successful submit there is a link below the text field "View auto saved text", so you can restore the saved text. But i am not sure this always works in any situation.

The shorted battery is a good explaination. But i am suprised that such thing has happened to so many users here. And the OEM battery of the OP is less than one year old...

Edited September 5, 2013 by wantan

[Ticketmaster]

Okay, I am composing this in Word this time.

First, unfortunately, I could only find a marginal charger in Phitsanulok. It has a single charge rate of 6 amps at 12V and no “full battery” cut-out (not a smart charger). I have a 10AMH battery and the charge rate really should not exceed 2 amps. I used it anyway, but did not dare charge for more than two hours. Overcharging can destroy a lead acid battery as well.

After charging for 2 hours, I removed the charger and tested the battery with a voltmeter. I have exactly 12 volts (a full charge would be ~13.1). The bike started right up and runs normally. With all my lost posts, I am not sure if I mentioned that Kawasaki did not bother to put either an ammeter or a electrical charging idiot light on the ER6n. Nice, huh? So even though the bike started right up, there is no way to tell whether the alternator is charging without further testing – or just riding it to see if the battery gets drained again – not a good idea. At this point, it appears that either the alternator or the regulator/rectifier is at fault.

I guess I need to install and ammeter. Can you imagine having this happen with no warning while riding alone on a dirt road way out in the middle of nowhere in Chiangrai (been there, done that many times)?

I frankly can’t understand why so many posters want to blame the battery. Consider: I replaced the battery around a year ago. At the time the old battery was dying, I was getting progressively weaker starts, and then it would not take a charge. I replaced it, everything normal again. Yesterday, the bike started normally. The starter was strong. I took off and got about 20 km in 15 or 20 minutes at which time the engine started to miss. I looked down and saw everything dead. No gauges, no turn signals, no horn. I kept up the RPMs, hung a U-turn and raced for home. Unfortunately, about 5km from home, I made a sharp turn and stupidly let the RPMs drop and the engine died. I tried popping the clutch in second, but was going too slow and had to push the bike home. The battery was completely drained. Now, if the alternator was not charging, this would be expected, especially considering the head and tail lights, which I could not turn off without removing the fuse, which I could not do without stopping, which would mean I am immediately stranded. Maybe I should install a headlight switch, too.

If the alternator was charging, it would power the system and there would be no further drain on the battery, no matter how weak it was. As long as I didn’t stop, with a charging alternator, I could have kept going until I ran out of gas. This is simple logic. The problem reared its ugly head only after the battery was drained and there was no juice from anywhere.

Thus, I suspect either the alternator or the regulator/rectifier. To test the regulator/rectifier, I need three 12V batteries, which I will have to round up (little motorcycle, truck and ER6n). It is a job; a real hassle.

Last year, I thought my starter died and a TV poster mentioned that it might be the starter relay that was at fault. I tested it, and by jing, that was it. I ordered a new one and all systems were go. Simple.

I thought that with all the ER6’s out there, somebody may have experienced my exact symptoms, since now that the ER’s have been out for awhile, there are various problems surfacing. The thing I am not sure of, without studying the shop manual in greater detail is whether there is something else in the system, besides the alternator and the regulator/rectifier, which could cause this problem.

Unfortunately, I will not have time for the troubleshooting for at least a week or so as I am balls to the wall building a house. Right now, I have to go route hinge and latch mortises on my door frames and get them finished so the workers can put them in. So, when I do get the time, I’ll find the problem and report back on this thread.

In the meantime, if anyone out there has experienced this with an ER6, I would sure like to hear about it.

Thanks for all the help and posts from everybody. I appreciate everybody taking the time to write.

And Wantan, I know how to cut and paste and use keyboard shortcuts, but I did NOT know there was an autosave function on TV by which I could recover text. Thanks a million for that! I don't see it, though.

[Beardog]

I think it may be your battery also. You have a ton of electrics you installed so push starting on a dead battery won't come close to cutting it! Ticket you should post whats under the seat so everyone has an idea of what your powering up....That being said a dead battery won't get the bike to fire & at the minimum 12 volts or more to keep all the goodies juiced up as they are all dependent on a hot setup & not just the average minimum to keep a ER6n up & running. The way things die out here I would not doubt the battery is lunched. I hope you iron this out quick. I know that has to be super irritating on top of building a houses irritation! PS: I always copy & paste on Word due to the error message happening often on TV.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Beardog

[Ticketmaster]

By the way, I never heard of a "shorted battery." But if I had one, I wouldn't be able to charge it up to 12V and start the bike, right? It started up normally, good to go. Damn Kawasaki for not including a charging indicator on this vehicle.

[Ticketmaster]

I think it may be your battery also. You have a ton of electrics you installed so push starting on a dead battery won't come close to cutting it! Ticket you should post whats under the seat so everyone has an idea of what your powering up....That being said a dead battery won't get the bike to fire & at the minimum 12 volts or more to keep all the goodies juiced up as they are all dependent on a hot setup & not just the average minimum to keep a ER6n up & running. The way things die out here I would not doubt the battery is lunched. I hope you iron this out quick. I know that has to be super irritating on top of building a houses irritation! PS: I always copy & paste on Word due to the error message happening often on TV.

Sure, I have a lot of electronic goodies, but they are electronics. They have practically no draw and would run off an AAA battery. I can't see them putting much of an extra load on the electrical system. I have some auxiliary lights, but they are also very low draw LED's. As I said, after charging the battery, the bike fired right up and ran normally. Okay, I've got to go rout some door frames!

[KRS1]

if you want to see if there is excess current draw with the engine off, place a 2 ohm resistor inline with the positive terminal and measure the voltage across the resistor, then divide that by 2 ohms.

[Woodsie888]

By the way, I never heard of a "shorted battery." But if I had one, I wouldn't be able to charge it up to 12V and start the bike, right? It started up normally, good to go. dam_n Kawasaki for not including a charging indicator on this vehicle.

Lead acid batteries can and most certainly do often have internal shorts leading to a dead cell. Using a volt meter to check the voltage is a total waste of time.

The best way to test a battery is with a high rate discharge tester. That will tell the real story. If the battery is good, then you start looking for the cause.

You've had some good advice here and some guy's who mean well but know very little.

To sum up: Check the battery properly and if it's bad, you've got your problem sorted in one. If it can withstand a high rate discharge test, go searching elsewhere.

It's not rocket science.

[Shurup]

A fully charged battery can't become discharged all of a sudden unless it fails somehow, if it was an alternator, a battery would loose the charge slowly (dependent how many gadgets you have plugged in).

With the bike running check the voltage at the battery, it should be high 13s. If it is, then the charging system works.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ticketmaster]

if you want to see if there is excess current draw with the engine off, place a 2 ohm resistor inline with the positive terminal and measure the voltage across the resistor, then divide that by 2 ohms.

This is not and never has been a problem. My battery drew down when I was riding; not when I was parked.

[Ticketmaster]

A fully charged battery can't become discharged all of a sudden unless it fails somehow, if it was an alternator, a battery would loose the charge slowly (dependent how many gadgets you have plugged in).

With the bike running check the voltage at the battery, it should be high 13s. If it is, then the charging system works.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It didn't discharge all of a sudden. Park your bike and turn on the headlight, taillights, auxiliary front and rear lights, Scottoiler and just leave everything on and see how long it takes to discharge your battery.

I borrowed a better digital multimeter and checked the battery after charging. It was 12.26V -- yesterday afternoon.

Whoa, I was getting ready to write: "There is nothing wrong with my battery! The system is not charging, and I will just need to find time to do the troubleshooting." Then I thought, hey, why the hell didn't I check the voltage with the engine running? Am I stupid,or what? Thanks for the wake-up call, Shurup. That would tell its own story. So I just ran down there and did it.

First, I checked the battery voltage and only had about 11.47 this morning. I started the engine and checked it again and damed if I didn't have 13.76V with the engine running. I cut the engine and checked it again and it was back up to 12.35V with the engine off. I can hardly say the system is not charging -- at least this morning.

I am both chastened and baffled.

So we have all these battery experts out there. Somebody please explain something that in my mind defies all logic. First, assume the system is charging normally. I have enough juice in the battery to start the bike and ride away. WHY did all my electrical components fail, as in NO JUICE, while I was riding? I mean,if the engine is running, everything is running on the power produced by the charging system. Somebody please explain how a battery can cause my motorcycle to get no electricity while the engine is running and the charging system is operational. This makes no sense to me.

Put another way, with some vehicles, the battery must be "in the loop" for the engine to run. Others, you can disconnect the battery while the vehicle is running. I do not know about the Kawa at this point. But assume it is of the latter type. With an operational charging system, I could start the motorcycle, then take out the battery and toss it, then ride off and keep riding until I ran out of gas with no ill effect. So, how can a bad battery be different than no battery?

Can a "shorted battery" actually somehow block the juice from the alternator? How does a battery suddenly and spontaneously become shorted? I have some research to do.

[CBR250]

The original symptoms do seem to be what to expect from an alternator or rectifier failure, not only battery.

[guzzi850m2]

If the battery is in a such a bad shape that the generator uses all its capacity to try maintain the battery voltage above a certain level, you will not have enough power to run everything else and the bike dies, this doesn't apply to simpler bikes, see below.

On a Yamaha Fino we once owned the battery was completely fxxxxx, I tried to charge with my battery tender (bought for a Harley touring bike battery, almost car size) but the battery would not take any charge (voltage not coming up).

After I kicked away on the kick starter for about 10min, sweating and cursing lol, (carbureted model) it fired up and ran smoothly after heating up and I drove to the nearest small bike shop and had a new battery fitted and it worked fine since then.

Yes they can suddenly "short" in one cell and that's it, you are not likely to go anywhere (on certain models, don't know about your EN6).

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/faqs.php?action=1&id=18

Edited September 6, 2013 by guzzi850m2

[Ticketmaster]

The original symptoms do seem to be what to expect from an alternator or rectifier failure, not only battery.

I simply cannot see how any battery problem could cause the "original symptoms" detailed in my original post.