Help! Electric jolt while loading washing machine

[poanoi]

I'm wondering about a thing here,

could a UPS between the plug and washing machine provide a safety with break ?

i get a tingling sensation when i touch something at the back of the PC,

and have been contemplating UPS

Edited September 6, 2013 by poanoi

[ThaiTrav]

Everyone seems to have missed the most obvious question, how much do you like your wife?

What a lot of whoo Haa over nothing .....Buy a new one or get your old one fixed ......why all the drama! The machine looks like its seen better days anyhow!

[transam]

Everyone seems to have missed the most obvious question, how much do you like your wife?

What a lot of whoo Haa over nothing .....Buy a new one or get your old one fixed ......why all the drama! The machine looks like its seen better days anyhow!

Because a new one will still kill you.

[worgeordie]

Obvious question why has the shower room got

electrical outlets anyway!? thats a really stupid

thing to do,and could easily result in death.

When our house was getting built,the sparky

wanted to put the light switch inside the

bathroom! they have no idea just how lethal

electricity can be, for some of them a 3 inch nail

knocked into the wall with earth wire wrapped

around it is a good job!, anyway I got some pull

light switches from UK and fitted them.

If you can you need to move the washer outside

if possible,AND make sure its earthed,electricity

and water do not mix.

regards Worgeordie

[Mudcrab]

Get a good earth in place and wire the earth back to the neutral as well as the machine...make a basic MEN system. You might need an electrician to do this This will cause the CB to trip in the event of a decent fault, and you might have one in the very near future looking at the condition of the washing machine.

I agree with all this post EXCEPT the above quote. Do NOT attempt to create a MEN system unless you KNOW that your local distribution network is configured for it.

TT with an RCD or RCBO is guaranteed safe, provided all your Class-1 appliances (including that washer) are correctly grounded either to a local rod or to a central ground point and thence to a rod.

No problem, just my opinion. Actually I'll retract the MEN as you are correct. The supply may not be of the MEN system. However simply bashing in an earth stake will give you..well..a connection to the general mass of the earth (might want to consider equipotential bonding generally) Creating your own (dare I say it? MEN...lets call it a neutral to earth bond) point at the switchboard will at least trip the breaker in an overcurrent event. Fault active to frame...current flow via earth conductor....connected to neutral...current flows active to neutral via earth conductor (not earth stake) ...short circuit...breaker trips.

No worries TV is overflowing with bush leckies, lawyers, detectives etc I'm sure the OP will have found a solution...have a great weekend and stay safe.

Note: an RCD doesn't require the appliance to be earthed. The principle of operation is current imbalance between the active and neutral, no earth reference required. Can be effective with double insulated tools etc, quite handy when in high humidity environments.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Mudcrab

[ThaiTrav]

Everyone seems to have missed the most obvious question, how much do you like your wife?

What a lot of whoo Haa over nothing .....Buy a new one or get your old one fixed ......why all the drama! The machine looks like its seen better days anyhow!

Because a new one will still kill you. alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

Hahaha .....oh well least you got a Warrantee!! Funny how she noticed its only just started and never any complaint before!

[ThaiTrav]

Obvious question why has the shower room got

electrical outlets anyway!? thats a really stupid

thing to do,and could easily result in death.

When our house was getting built,the sparky

wanted to put the light switch inside the

bathroom! they have no idea just how lethal

electricity can be, for some of them a 3 inch nail

knocked into the wall with earth wire wrapped

around it is a good job!, anyway I got some pull

light switches from UK and fitted them.

If you can you need to move the washer outside

if possible,AND make sure its earthed,electricity

and water do not mix.

regards Worgeordie

Yeah that's right keep the machine outside . The hot sun ,wind ,rain and elements do wonders for the machines longevity oh not to mention safety too .The rats get fried first Light switches outside the bathroom !!!....

[transam]

Everyone seems to have missed the most obvious question, how much do you like your wife?

What a lot of whoo Haa over nothing .....Buy a new one or get your old one fixed ......why all the drama! The machine looks like its seen better days anyhow!

Because a new one will still kill you. alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

Hahaha .....oh well least you got a Warrantee!! Funny how she noticed its only just started and never any complaint before!

Forgive me if I am wrong here , but I believe all modern appliances are wired to be earthed because of risk of death DURING the expected LIFE of the appliance. . This appliance might have reached that point and the new one will at some point do the same. .

[Mudcrab]

Everyone seems to have missed the most obvious question, how much do you like your wife?

What a lot of whoo Haa over nothing .....Buy a new one or get your old one fixed ......why all the drama! The machine looks like its seen better days anyhow!

Because a new one will still kill you.

washing machine or wife. Or is there difference?

[Mudcrab]

Just a question that I feel I might already know the answer to, but, in Thailand, is there any qualification/certification required for electricians? (Please don't laugh!)

I have an inkling that no such qualification exists. Would I be right in assuming this??

Actually, standards, training and certification for electricians do exist, but anyone who has them is working on major projects or O&G.

Domestic sparkies, just need a screwdriver, pliers (or big scissors) and a roll of tape

Yep, I had two very nice ''chandelier'' type lights crash to the floor during the night, at different times , l went into ''boot polish'' my face mode .

Up in the village I had a ceiling fan replaced.

The 'electrician' was about 15 years old and accompanied by his mother, who didn't trust him out alone.

A lot of observers but nobody standing in close contact.

After 3 years it's still working perfectly and no shocks to anyone. Result!!

Sometimes that is referred to as a time bomb. And it happens all over the place. A lot of people have been electrocuted (read dead) from accessing metal roofs that have been "live" for many years but nobody had put a ladder against them.

[roberti]

Yes Mudcrab..... RCD is the way ...no need to worry about how good your homemade earth is!

Wet / dry seasons etc etc

Unless you have the equipment / knowledge to test earth loop impedance Zs !!

Anyway Tropo & wife, please stay safe and disconnect that washing m/c asap!

Robert

[ihightower]

Please read this posting here... (yes click the link) which explains the usual problems with Electric Shock.

Don't trust the plug... pull it out to see if it got 3 pins.. Even it got 3 pins... it doesn't mean in the wall... the earth is really connected to ground... may be the earth slot in wall is just a dummy hole.

And, for the ones of the schuko type you need to buy an adapter.. available from homepro.. for thb90.

and this... VERY USEFUL INFORMATION

http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/plugs.html

Edited September 6, 2013 by ihightower

[tropo]

Here's some updates:

I checked the outlet and it has 3 wires attached:

... so I have earth wiring, but don't know yet if it is functional or not. What is the easiest way to test this? Which electrical testing device should I buy to test this?

My plug doesn't have 3 prongs:

... indicating it is not earthed. Should I merely buy a 3 pronged plug and try to attach that? Will the washing machine cord have 3 wires? If so, why did it come with a 2 prong plug? It would be most likely that the machine was purchased with this plug already attached - I can't image the landlord changed the plug at any stage and that he knows much about Thai wiring.

Post # 35 by ThaiTrav drew my attention.... I've been amazed at how fast the front panel of this machine is rusting. I've been using it for 2 1/2 years, so it's probably 3 - 4 years old. The bathroom is on the sunny side of the house so the room tends to be hot and dry as it gets the hot afternoon sun and is on the top floor. Perhaps there's a leaky seal in the machine and water is making it's way into the electrics.

[Crossy]

You can get an adaptor for that Shuko plug (it is a grounded plug), look here http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/plugs.html scroll down a bit, or you can fit a local 3-pin plug, the correct connections are on the same page.

Do test that ground, a small lamp between L and E should light (or trip your RCD if you have one) on a good ground.

[poanoi]

Yes, buy the 3 plug, the washing machine has 3 cables

[transam]

Perhaps you might have a water leak in the machine causing rust, who knows. Fit a 3 pin plug. I did it to all my stuff.

The machine lid has a couple of screws holding it on. Remove the lid and see if you have a leak. For sure your lack of earth can cause a problem and a 3 pin fix might save the day.

[superdome]

Judging by the "state" of the machine i would think that you have a bad earth due to all the rust in the machine...check it out clean up the rust..re-fit earth & you should be ok

[jackflash]

> My plug doesn't have 3 prongs:

Actually it does have three connections. It's a CEE 7/7 hybrid Schuko/French plug.

The hole where the Earth pin would be is supposed to connect with a short stub on the socket.

Alternatively those metal strips running up the side are the earth connection, but you need an adapter (as mentioned above) to convert it to the local three pin type.

Cut it off and put a normal three in plug in it's place.

Edited September 6, 2013 by jackflash

[transam]

> My plug doesn't have 3 prongs:

It's a Type F Schuko plug. Those metal strips running up the side are the earth connection, but you need an adapter (as mentioned above) to convert it to the local three pin type.

Also It looks like it originally had a conventional third pin, but someone has unscrewed it so they could plug into a two pin socket

Noooooo, most stuff comes like that plug. I have tried to buy the third pin but they all laugh sooooooooooo l cut the plug off and buy a 3 pin plug. Those that laugh probably drive on the wrong side of the road and do daft stuff soooo no problem.

[tropo]

You can get an adaptor for that Shuko plug (it is a grounded plug), look here http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/plugs.html scroll down a bit, or you can fit a local 3-pin plug, the correct connections are on the same page.

Do test that ground, a small lamp between L and E should light (or trip your RCD if you have one) on a good ground.

Thanks for that. That's a great link (your work?) with a lot of useful safety information.

I'll head down to HomePro and buy one of those adapters pronto.

What is RCD? Is that a trip fuse? I do have those.

[tropo]

Perhaps you might have a water leak in the machine causing rust, who knows. Fit a 3 pin plug. I did it to all my stuff.

The machine lid has a couple of screws holding it on. Remove the lid and see if you have a leak. For sure your lack of earth can cause a problem and a 3 pin fix might save the day.

Yes, I will take off the back panel and look for a leak. Fist step buy the Schuko adapter and check the earth... but not with my body.

[jackflash]

Sorry Transam,

I edited my post at the same time you placed yours...

Yes, the female earth hole is supposed to connect with a short stub in the socket...

There is no missing pin.

Edited September 6, 2013 by jackflash

[shaurene]

Wow! This could be very dangerous. Don't use that washing machine until you get that sorted out.

It is not earthed, nothing is earthed. Turn the power off at the mains, take the back off or put the machine on it's side and check if you have earth wire with the main cable, you can do an earth by drilling hole in the concrete floor and get a screw in the hole and connect the earth wire from the machine onto it.

[transam]

Wow! This could be very dangerous. Don't use that washing machine until you get that sorted out.

It is not earthed, nothing is earthed. Turn the power off at the mains, take the back off or put the machine on it's side and check if you have earth wire with the main cable, you can do an earth by drilling hole in the concrete floor and get a screw in the hole and connect the earth wire from the machine onto it.

You are a Thai electrician eh.

[Wat dee]

Don't worry!!!

It is still 100% safe if your mother-in-law does the laundry.

[Anon999]

I'll lay odds that your washing machine is not grounded, it's probably not faulty (ours bites if not grounded).

Please post a photo of the machine's plug and the outlet into which it is inserted so we can better assist.

9 out of 10 chances that you have no 'Earth' connection in your plug point.

Easily checked. I explained in detail how to DIY at home previously on TV.

Yes it is dangerous.

Checking the machine is more complicated and costly.

it's clearly the Schuko-plug, not the socket, that has no ground contact. if his socket is grounded he needs an adaptor as Crossy suggested.

Sadly Naam, there is a strong possibility that the 3rd pin goes nowhere

So a little further testing is needed if using the adaptor does not solve the issue.

There's a strong possibility that the 3rd pin is missing like on my new Siemens machine. Being a Spanish make the cable at least should be 3 core. Also it appears the wall socket is only 2 pin?

Edited September 6, 2013 by Anon999

[ozyjon]

People laughed at me when i bought 2 copper Earth rods to earth our house,, i made double sure the wiring i did myself was grounded well and truly,, also i have extra breakers throughout on hot water, the kitchen, laundry to stop the electricity before it gets to my heart, earth wires in Thailand don't exist,, remember the shock someone got in an up market hotel and revealed that the hotel wiring wasn't earthed... caution electricity KILLS

[Ulic]

I say print all this great information up for the landlord and and have him fix it properly or MOVE.

Don't make his house's deficiencies your tragedy.

[Litlos]

I'm wondering about a thing here,

could a UPS between the plug and washing machine provide a safety with break ?

i get a tingling sensation when i touch something at the back of the PC,

and have been contemplating UPS

Maybe, but probably not. The PC is suffering from exactly the same problem as the washing machine where the electronics are using the chassis earth as a dump for the filtering circuits, which of course does not work if there is no earth. Anything with a metal case really needs that earth connection, some for usability but mostly for safety.

Cheers

[Ackybang]

Hey Tropo -

You shouldn't have your supply tap above, or anywhere near your plug socket, or really be using it in a bathroom - you're asking for further trouble. If you cant avoid it's situation - chop the water pipe so it's a lot lower beneath the socket, or just above the floor.

Your machine is made by a European company, which explains the plug, and is probably older than 4 Years, going by the condition of it. Such an amount of rust isn't normal on a newish domestic machine. Most of the heavier domestic machines manufactured here would have a three pin these days.

I would imagine the machine uses a commutator motor - over time, with normal usage, the carbon brushes on such motors fling off a massive amount of very fine dust, which would probably be coating most of the inside of the machine by now - in my experience, such a coating makes it very easy for a leak, or even a normal isolated live connection to lose it's autonomy, and blanket your entire machine - add to that the rust, and there you go. It is prudent with such machines to open them up periodically, and remove the motor and blow it out with high pressure air, aswell as the whole inside of the machine, to remove such build ups.

You should definitely get an adaptor to earth your plug, or change it. I would aswell find an earth point on the body and wire that to the connection block, which is usually located directly under the lid, towards the back of the machine because sometimes on an older, or even a new machine, just earthing the plug isn't enough, and I know the real sparky's on the forum as well as the laws of physics would disagree with me, but it's true. I've had enough belts off, and used / serviced enough machines to know.

If you're not qualified, get someone who is to do it. If you fancy having a go, unplug the machine and open it up - not much to a washer at the end of the day, and very easy to check for leaks.

I would recommend you / someone else clean the inside of the machine and motor thoroughly with compressed air, or a blower / hoover on reverse and wiping it down with a dry cloth. I would recommend you clean it thoroughly every now and then. If you're planning on keeping the machine, I would try to remove as much of the rust as you can and paint over it.

You've been having a leak primarily at the powder drawer - this could be caused by a build up of calcified powder / water in the system. Take the drawer out, and have a look inside its' compartment. Give it a good clean, if it's filled with gunk - or if you're opening the machine, you will see a flexible rubber connector from the back of the drawer to the top of the drum - you can remove it, and give it a good clean out with an old toothbrush and some hot soapy water. Do the same with the filter. You would see a similar rubber connector from the bottom of the drum to the pump which gets rid of the water - easy to check for built up blockage - coins, bra wire, nails, tooothpicks - all sorts of stuff you would never think of, but could compromise the rubber's integrity, or the pumps efficiency and cause leaks. If your pump is blocked and your machine is spinning, the centrifugal force could throw water back up through the drawer.

Usually only one pipe in, and one out, and maybe one more to circulate a jet wash back into the drum. After that, only a door gasket, a ball race / bearing gasket, and usually a gasket between the two halves of the drum. All easy to check, with little more than a visual inspection. You can usually see where the leaks are eminating from by the watermarks.

Many digital machines have a way of accessing a bult in diagnostic program, which could provide you with error codes, and allow you to ascertain if a certain part is malfunctioning. Try googling the model number to check for access method.

Of course, if you can't be arsed with any of the above, get your landlord to replace the machine - but do address the water / plug / earthing issues - even on a new one.

Good luck.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Ackybang