True Online Fiber to the Home Service

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just noticed today that True Online is now advertising on their website a whole package of FTTH services... pretty pricey IMHO...

Especially considering AFAIK, there's no indication that their international speeds via fiber will be much or any better than their current DOCSIS setups...

But at any rate, here's the link and the info:

http://trueonline.truecorp.co.th/product-service/product-broadband/entry/2265

At least they have a version of the info in English, which for True these days, must be a major accomplishment. Either that, or, they think that farangs are the only ones likely to pay the monthly rates they're seeking, ranging from 3,000 to 13,000 baht per month.

Edited September 9, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

And I expect no better "international" speed than a True xDSL or DOCSIS plan. From the few posts I've seen regarding people on TOT's fiber to the home internet plan their international speeds are basically no better than TOT xDSLs plans.

But there will be people who see "fiber optics" in the advertisement and figure it will give them lightning international speeds...or reference some bogus, faster-than-the-speed-of-light Speedtest.net result in some post somewhere....but in all probability it will just give them a pricey monthly internet bill. But hey, I could be wrong...I don't plan to personally find out...I'll just stick to my True DOCSIS plan.

[Arkady]

I have TRUE broadband at home. A truly horrible service but the only alternative where I live is TOT.

I would be extremely sceptical about any speeds promised by TRUE. There is no accountability. So they know they can get away with promising anything.

[muratremix]

50/15mbit looks good but too expensive. I would love to get myself faster upload speeds, but not at ridiculous monthly fees.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And I expect no better "international" speed than a True xDSL or DOCSIS plan. From the few posts I've seen regarding people on TOT's fiber to the home internet plan their international speeds are basically no better than TOT xDSLs plans.

I too suspect that is likely going to be the case.

And the problem here with True's FTTH service, if you read the small print details, is that they're looking for 12 or 18 month contract service commitments, which, if canceled early, incur substantial financial penalties.

So, even if someone wanted to give this service a try to see how it really fared with international speeds, you'd be stuck with either big monthly bills for a year or more, or pretty substantial fee penalties, if it didn't provide the kinds of speeds promised and you wanted to discontinue.

BTW, just to be clear for the unitiated, any speeds True might be claiming in their various plans, whether FTTH, cable or DSL, only pertain to their domestic, inside Thailand internet traffic -- not international connections.

Edited September 10, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

A person can go to this KhunWoody website which has a database of speed test results of folks in Phuket on various ISPs and connections/plans (i.e., xDSL, DOCSIS, Fiber, etc). So more of an apple to apple comparison can be obtained folks are suppose to sue the DSLReports Flash-based tester to the Parsippany NJ, USA server. But as you will see in remarks folks make when making their entries some use other testers or you get suspicious of what tester they really used because the results seem bogus/skewed. So when viewing different entries take some of them with a BIG grain of salt.

I did see entries of some of the TOT and CAT fiber program, but when viewing the entries with a big grain of salt in mind and how some entries were most like skewed/bogus, it was obvious to me the international speed was really no better than xDSL or DOCSIS. Didn't see any entries for True fiber.

I think most people know by now that Flash-based testers can be easily fooled by local network caching especially for international speed testing...like how the Flash-based Speedtest.net tester so often gives bogus/faster than light download speeds and ping times to international servers...almost like that server is just across the soi...and the "cache server which could indeed be very nearby" is probably where those bogus results are being generated from versus that far-off FarangLand server you think you are testing to. However, the DSL Flash-based tester due to its programming/testing algorithm used is more reliable, less susceptible to being fooled but it can still be fooled.

I used the DSLReports Flash-based tester to Parsippany NJ/USA this morning at 10am on my True DOCSIS 14Mb down/1.4Mb up plan and got results of 1.321Mb down/1.67Mb up....a minute later I used the site Java-based tester to Parsippany and got 1.9Mb down/1.501Mb up. And from the remarks in the database you can see many people were using the testmy.net speedtester (which is a good one...a much more thorough tester...java based I think) and got a 1.6Mb down/1.0Mb up.

Your results will vary based on your location, time of day/night, and just so many other possible factors...and I expect if I run the same tests a hour from now I could get significantly different results, but after doing many, many various tests over the years with different speed testers I know my international speed won't magically jump up to a really high speed unless maybe I use the Speedtest.net tester...I can easily get 14.4Mb and higher download speeds and faster-than-light ping times to most any server on Earth using that tester....it's so easily fooled on some ISPs/networks by local cache servers on the ISP's network. Don't get me wrong, cache servers are a good thing for improving content delivery/speed locally; but they can fooled flash-based speed testers.

[ETatBKK]

as far as I understand, the xDSL, or DOCSIS, or even optics, the speeds are all described between ISP connection to endpoint, YES another word - domestic internet bandwidth. nothing to do with international speed or bandwidth.

there are slightly different terms and conditions between consumer internet account and business internet account ( TRUE's language ). the far more expensive business account has priority of reaching the ISP connection in case of jam, and also a service level ( uptime % ) described. yet, this is still nothing to do with the international access speed.

above service conditions are quite similar to those in fareng land. yet in other countries, different ISP has different international gateway and bandwidth, that makes one ISP faster than other. in Thailand, I guess ( ? ) everyone is under the AIS infrastructure hence make no different ?

[Pib]

...in Thailand, I guess ( ? ) everyone is under the AIS infrastructure hence make no different ?

AIS is the largest mobile carrier in Thailand; maybe you meant CAT which does seem to partially control in one way or another a lot of the Thailand telecommunications/internet backbone when going internationally.

[shariq607]

True is one of the last major internet service providers in thailand to offer fiber yet the most expensive. How are they going to penetrate the market when their prices are not competitive enough compared to their competitors. 3bb fiber plans starts at 1200 baht for 30mb. Looking at their marketing ploy it looks to me as if they are targeting rich farangs , heck they don't even have a fiber page dedicated in Thai. But looking at their target customers it would interesting if they actually did provide higher priority on international bandwidth. A legitimate speed test would be a welcome

[lomatopo]

http://www.3bb.co.th/3bb/product/details/2253

Cat On-Net

TOT Fiber 2U

AIS, yes the mobile phone company, has announced an intention to move into the FTTx market.

In the U.S. I stay with family/friends, one has 50/6 for $40/month, another has 50/10 for $60/month - internet-only; double/triple-plays are extra, perfect for all the U.S.-based streaming options. Physical transport is fiber to the curb/home.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I just noticed an interesting detail in the True promo above... In addition to their internet service, they also talk in the promo description about their FTTH service being able to provide TrueVisions HD video service.

So, if someone signed up for their FTTH internet, and already was a TrueVisions cable TV customer, does that mean they'd switch over the TrueVisions signal from traditional cable to the fiber line and deliver both into your home via fiber???

Either way, it doesn't seem like much of a proposition.

Right now, I'm paying 699b per month for True Online cable internet with a stated 14/1.4 Mb plan. And they're offering above a fiber internet plan starting at 20/4 Mb for 2999b per month with a lot of contract duration and penalty language??? Is whatever service enhancement fiber would provide really worth TRIPLE my current price?

[lomatopo]

The only reference to FTTH I can find in any recent True Corp. Analyst's presentations is this single bullet:

Offered FTTH services in the high-end residential projects to maintain leadership position

So it's not clear how much effort, or how broadly deployed these FTTH services are? The focus seems to be on growing the legacy DSL and DOCSIS "new adds". True Online had 1.680 millin broadband customers at the end of Q2/2013.

My best guess is that on select new, high-profile/high-density, luxury properties they are deploying FTTH, with hopes of delivering bundled triple-play services with internet, voice (fixed-line, with tie-ins to mobile) and video (TV). These folks are probably less price-sensitive than most of us here, and are wiling to pay a bit more for the latest/best? This is a bit like their foray into VDSL.

I doubt many here could even get FTTH, from True Online, even if you wanted it.

[Dork]

Perhaps they are targeting SME's where (for some) having a robust upstream speed is more important than superfast downstream. I've noticed that even with a 50/5 DOCSIS connection, one user sending a bunch of emails with large attachments can clog the connection. I don't have any evidence and haven't done any proper tests but I have the feeling that TRUE DOCSIS can deliver downstream ok but upstream less so.

[lomatopo]

Perhaps they are targeting SME's

My best guess is that, as they are calling this service FTTH, where H = Home, the focus may be on residential consumers?

[Dork]

Perhaps they are targeting SME's

My best guess is that, as they are calling this service FTTH, where H = Home, the focus may be on residential consumers?

Almost all small businesses in Thailand use residential internet packages. No one cares what they are called, they care about the price.

[Pib]

Me thinks FTTH is just the marketing acronym/name which has been commonly and successfully used in many countries for fiber service and that is why Thai ISPs are also using the FTTH acronym/name regardless of who their marketing may be focused towards.

Since so many SME's in Thailand are businesses working out of their homes/2-3 story shop houses where they work, eat, sleep, raise a family, etc., even a marketing focus towards homes can easily work as a marking focus towards many, many Thai SMEs.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Pib

[lomatopo]

I only suggested that True Online's focus for this FTTH offer was on the residential market based on their Financial Analysts' presentation:

Offered FTTH services in the high-end residential projects to maintain leadership position

Most people seem to think this service is priced well above other options which might be better suited for micro-businesses. So it remains unclear how much True will target them, scattered across disparate locations, with this solution, especially given their price-sensitivity. I'm not even sure if True Online has an SME-focused sales force, or even if they are allowed to sell into SMEs? I think their fixed-line voice concession may preclude non-consumer business, but I am less than familiar with the terms of that particular concession.

Maybe we have different definitions of SMEs? I don't consider a family business in a shophouse to a be a Small Enterprise; I think close to 80% of the SMEs in Thailand are related to agriculture.

Most service providers tend to refer to this as FTTx, where the x can represent the curb or the home. 3BB calls their service FTTx, CAT calls theirs On-Net (a reference to optical networking) and TOT calls theirs Fiber 2U. It seems like all of these are focused on residential applications?

Business focused internet services tend to offer options like fixed IP addresses, enhanced service and support and QoS levels. TOT and CAT, along with many third-party SI/NI shops tend to address these markets.

Edited September 13, 2013 by lomatopo

[Pib]

Maybe we have different definitions of SMEs? I don't consider a family business in a shophouse to a be a Small Enterprise; I think close to 80% of the SMEs in Thailand are related to agriculture.

Yea...could be. My definition is pretty much any person involved in selling/producing services or products and probably has some little business/tax license they renew periodically and hang on the wall somewhere like in those shop houses I mentioned...shop houses that are involved in about every kind of business imaginable.

Below is how a 2010 Asian Social Science report described SMEs in Thailand based on data they got from the National Statistics Office of Thailand.

An enterprise is considered to be an SME based on value of assets or number of full-time employees. In terms of

the total number of SMEs in the country, the 2002 census, which was conducted by the National Statistic Office

Thailand, showed there was a total of 817,691 active establish in the trading sector as shown in Table 1.Out of

which 288,877 or 35.3 percent were retail trade. The manufacturing sector accounted for 118,829 or 14.5

percent of the total, followed by hotel and restaurants with more than 116,807 or 14.3 percent, recreation and

other services (10.2 percent), sale and maintenance repair accounted for 8.2 percent. The real estate ( 4.3

percent), wholesale trade and commission (4.1 percent), renting of machinery and equipment (3.8 percent), other

land transport activities (3.6 percent), construction (1.2 percent) and computer and related activities (0.5 percent)

(NSO, 2007).

As shown in Table 1 the largest concentration of SMEs is in the food and beverage sector (19.85 per cent),

followed by textiles (15.05 per cent), wearing apparel (13.80 per cent), wood and wood products (9.51 per cent),

other (5.77%), Furniture (5.07%), Fabricated (4.89%), and non-metallic mineral products (2.16%)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The only reference to FTTH I can find in any recent True Corp. Analyst's presentations is this single bullet:

Offered FTTH services in the high-end residential projects to maintain leadership position

So it's not clear how much effort, or how broadly deployed these FTTH services are? The focus seems to be on growing the legacy DSL and DOCSIS "new adds". True Online had 1.680 millin broadband customers at the end of Q2/2013.

My best guess is that on select new, high-profile/high-density, luxury properties they are deploying FTTH, with hopes of delivering bundled triple-play services with internet, voice (fixed-line, with tie-ins to mobile) and video (TV). These folks are probably less price-sensitive than most of us here, and are wiling to pay a bit more for the latest/best? This is a bit like their foray into VDSL.

I doubt many here could even get FTTH, from True Online, even if you wanted it.

The final comment from Loma's post above appears to be correct, even as other ISPs are expanding their fiber networks around BKK.

Earlier this week, I was talking on the phone with True's English language center about some general service issues, and took the opportunity to ask as an aside whether their fiber service was available in the central BKK area where I live.

And to my great surprise, the True rep answered that as of right now, True only has their fiber system deployed in a bare handful of (sounds like newer built) residential developments around BKK. So few, in fact, that the rep started to tick off the list of projects by name and location, and it was a very short list.

When I asked as a follow-up if she had any information about the extent to which True might be planning to expand fiber from those few locations, the rep said she didn't know/had no information.

True does, meanwhile, have an English language webpage on their fiber service:

http://trueonline.truecorp.co.th/product-service/product-broadband/entry/2265?ln=en

So then, having run into a dead-end on True fiber, I asked about other options for gaining better international speeds than those typically provided by their regular residential/consumer services.

And she answered that yes, I could subscribe to one of True Online's "Business" plans that she priced as follows:

--1 Mbps down and 512K up -- 1900b per month

--2 Mbps down and 512K up -- 2300b per month

Most of the time, I can usually get 1 Mbps down international from my regular True 15 Mbps cable service. So the prospect of tripling my current 699b per month bill for their "Business" class service at those same kinds of speeds seemed pretty unappealing.

Meanwhile, separately, recently I was talking to the 3BB staff at CentralWorld about their fiber internet system. And while the reps there said 3BB could NOT deliver cable internet to my soi in central BKK, they did say they could deliver 3BB's fiber service if I wanted it -- under a year or longer service commitment and some pretty hefty monthly prices.

Edited January 5, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[skippybangkok]

Most of the time, I can usually get 1 Mbps down international from my regular True 15 Mbps cable service. So the prospect of tripling my current 699b per month bill for their "Business" class service at those same kinds of speeds seemed pretty unappealing.

Load if tripe as usual.

I just connected to Vdsl 30 mb ( oh no, here comes the sticklers correcting bytes, bits secs etc zzzz ) as my village can't install under ground DOCSIS. VDSL works great, and made life better compared to ADSL.

Due to TCP/IP protocol limitations, I see a some improvement in web browsing, but the main difference is with you tube and streaming which works great. Don't need to wait for buffers, and it starts immediately.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm not sure what "tripe" you're referring to. But I also notice you didn't post any details of the price for the plan you subscribed to, or what kind of actual international speeds you're getting from it.

On True's website, they're offering a 30 MB DSL plan for 2999b per month.

http://trueonline.truecorp.co.th/product-service/product-broadband/entry/2346

FWIW, YouTube isn't much of an indicator for real international internet speeds for anything, since their content is localized here via content delivery networks.

But if you want to post a speedtest result from a reliable international source such as this:

http://testmy.net/download

Then you won't just be blowing smoke.

Lots of people have stated 20 and 30 Mbps Internet plans with True. But the speeds they'll get from those plans for real international connections to the U.S. and Europe are almost always a fraction of the stated plan speeds, which are meant as an indicator for local (inside Thailand) traffic.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Most of the time, I can usually get 1 Mbps down international from my regular True 15 Mbps cable service.

Re this comment, I should have made clear, I meant, 1 Mbps down for international connections to the U.S. during primetime use hours here... say 7 pm to 11 pm.

During morning and afternoon hours here, for the same international connections, 2-4 Mbps down is more common, again, coming via a True Online 15 Mbps cable connection.

[mortenaa]

I'm using CAT On-Net in a Sukhumvit Soi (BKK). Free installation all the way up in my room in 16th floor. Since I was the first in my building to install, they had to put some equipment, and it was a long wait.

Its pricey, but the experience is much more responsive than with True ADSL. Web pages load faster, and VPN/Remote is faster.

Download speeds from northern Europe is not very fast. I usually get 1.5 - 2 Mbps download. OK for streaming. PING-speeds are decent, between 240ms - 350ms. I have discovered a few service interruptions, and keeping my True ADSL as a backup.

http://testmy.net/db/GzyP7YD

Edited January 5, 2014 by mortenaa

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 Mbps or 20 Mbps plans from CAT On-Net for 1500 to 2500 baht per month? Yielding a real world 2 Mbps download rate from outside Thailand.

Kind of demonstrates, as has long been the case with True Online, that paying for a higher priced/rated plan doesn't produce a proportionate increase in international download speeds.

[mortenaa]

My package is around 5k a month, good upload speed. For me is really worth it, as my work depend on a low latency connection to Europe. Its just night and day compared to True. Also torrents are downloading at full speeds.

[inthepink]

True is one of the last major internet service providers in thailand to offer fiber yet the most expensive. How are they going to penetrate the market when their prices are not competitive enough compared to their competitors. 3bb fiber plans starts at 1200 baht for 30mb. Looking at their marketing ploy it looks to me as if they are targeting rich farangs , heck they don't even have a fiber page dedicated in Thai. But looking at their target customers it would interesting if they actually did provide higher priority on international bandwidth. A legitimate speed test would be a welcome

Rich farangs lol. Most of the Westerners I have met in Thailand are relatively poor. I'm sure True are not specifically targeting them.

[wpcoe]

What kind of cabling is used in FTTH once the fibre optic cable reaches the exterior wall of the building? Does the fibre terminate in a converter box of some sort at that point, with a standard Cat5/Cat6 cable (or WiFi) continuing from there to your computer (modem?), or does the actual fibre cable continue into the interior of the house to terminate at a wall outlet where some sort of converter box/modem is located?

Would it be the same for a house as it would be for a condo building?

[Micbozy]

People from Japan, Taiwan, HongKong and Korean are addicted to high speed bandwidth, they could easily get a 100M/100M FTTH for as low as 600 baht per month.

Is there even a Fair Trade Commission in Thailand at all? We are being ripoff big

[Crossy]

What kind of cabling is used in FTTH once the fibre optic cable reaches the exterior wall of the building? Does the fibre terminate in a converter box of some sort at that point, with a standard Cat5/Cat6 cable (or WiFi) continuing from there to your computer (modem?), or does the actual fibre cable continue into the interior of the house to terminate at a wall outlet where some sort of converter box/modem is located?

Would it be the same for a house as it would be for a condo building?

Inside is a small box with a passive combiner (incoming is two cores), then a single core fibre straight to the router.

I'd expect the same in a condo, they would need to run the fibre to your room up the pipe shaft, some buildings may not allow.